Saru Inc

Gnomeball. :thumbup:

I highly doubt Jesus would be telling people that if they sin, they will burn in a garbage dump named the Valley of Hinnom. Valley of Hinnom sounds like a land fill, actually. Also GW, you're quite correct, that is what people say. However, I do not agree. Any Christian cannot say god isn't material. Simply because Jesus IS God and he came down to Earth. And also, there are Atheists here who are flat out saying God doesn't exist.

Well, naturally, it's just funny how the Atheists do not accept the Theist's proof, but call the Theists ignorant when we don't accept the Atheists proof.

Bush's first term: -War on Terror -Patriot Act ]-Foundings for an economic disaster (see "War or Terror")[/b] -National Debt consistently sinks -Invasion of Iraq ..and many other "little things". I'd say he did a pretty good job of messing up his first term. He even got elected to a second term. OH MY GOD. Wow. The Economy started to sink with Clinton. No one will deny it, Bush did help it along, I'm not saying he's guilt free, BUT, Clinton did start it.

Does anyone else not notice this? Everything falls on the Theists, and not the Atheists, isn't it funny how it all works out for Atheists. 1) Cut the burden of proof [cabbage], it's quite aggravating. 2) READ the posts people write on both sides, and to all Atheists, if a Christian beats your argument give up, you got beat, don't go around insulting them, that's just low. 3) Why does anyone even debate religion, I go back to my link I've posted billions of times. http://www.answersingenesis.org/creatio ... eation.asp Read the page, it will essentially end the debate. 4) To that list of contradictions, as stated earlier, is a fallacy. Taken out of contexts eliminates any validity of the verse with the meaning as you're trying to put it. The burden of proof lies on the Atheists who really say it's a contradiction. Its like when Jesus told people to not go tee-toling (sp?) but drink some red wine, for it's good for your stomach, now surely sometime somewhere, an Atheist said "Hey, Jesus supports drunkeness!" Of course not, he was advising. Also, it's important for Atheists AND Christians alike to know the purpose of the verse, as in when Jesus told the guy he couldn't go to heaven if he was rich, someone used that to say God supported Socialism. Of course God does not, the problem was, if you took the verse in Context, the guy was extremely materialistic (much like people here) and could not think about anything else but his money. God wanted him to moderate the money, donate to charity, and tithe. But not give it all away. 5) Sly, and any other Christians, give up, there's no point in arguing with people like this.

Because the Bible contradicts itself so many times that to save themselves (their religion) they bend their rules whenever they feel like it just to make things fit. :lol: :lol: And too NoMoreDead: It is quite obvious what are parables and what aren't. You don't have to be a Christian to figure it out. NoMoreDead, I answered this already, Carbon Dating isn't 100% reliable, it is sometimes, but not always. Also, there is evidence to support it being under one million years. Lastly, I answered the Epicurus question.

Well, some Christians use the Bible for everything. Others use Biblical properties for the answers, and others ask God. I for one, don't use the Bible that much, but rely more on God. And as I said, I'm not quite sure of how old it is, just not that old. And I'll say it right out, I can't explain the galaxies full of dust. And I never said the Atheistic scientists lied, they're simply, in my view, misinformed.

Oh ok, sorry GW, my mistake. Well, I'm not quite sure why God does somethings, such as diseases, or cerebral palsy to innocent people. I really have no clue, I'm not sure anyone does. Some may, not sure. I guess the answer is, God doesn't MAKE the woman have a miscarriage, it happens accidentally. And it's an unwanted loss of life. But an abortion is deliberate.

Tbh, I have no idea what it is, I'm just saying what he said, to be honest.

Evolution isn't one stage of change, evolution is a constant and the human race even continues to evolve, we've become taller and unfortunately more susceptible to disease as we've evolved for the modern world. Not sure about the taller thing, but yes, more susceptible to disaease. Allergies in particular are a great example. Remember that evolution takes thousands of years plus, so a noticeable physical change could take a very long period of time. Vestigal organs{like muscles attached to the ear(they do not develop enough to be of use as in other primates), and the tailbone }and dormant DNA is yet another example; some instances of these have been nearly eradicated, but some humans can actually grow tails, albeit it's very rare. Toes are some of the more recent physical changes in humans. Saruman, answer the question. Do you believe the earth is circa 10,000 years old. First of all, answer my post. Second, what's the question? I was just commenting on how there were giants back then. I mean, if you mean time, then yes, I do. How can you just "beleive" something still when it has been proven wrong so many times? Because while yes, there are some scientists who say that carbon dating is reliable, many also differ. I for one, am not sure. But I'mstill deciding. And to be quite honest, I'm not sure how old the Earth is, some Christians say 4k, others 10k, others billions of years. All I believe is that it's not even a million years old, but am not quite sure how much. And Tryto, I wasn't talking about Noah, just Mount Arafat. It's also funny how no one is commenting on my post. :-k (the one about the parable.)

No, gw, thats not what I said at all, re-read.

Evolution isn't one stage of change, evolution is a constant and the human race even continues to evolve, we've become taller and unfortunately more susceptible to disease as we've evolved for the modern world. Not sure about the taller thing, but yes, more susceptible to disaease. Allergies in particular are a great example. Remember that evolution takes thousands of years plus, so a noticeable physical change could take a very long period of time. Vestigal organs{like muscles attached to the ear(they do not develop enough to be of use as in other primates), and the tailbone }and dormant DNA is yet another example; some instances of these have been nearly eradicated, but some humans can actually grow tails, albeit it's very rare. Toes are some of the more recent physical changes in humans. Saruman, answer the question. Do you believe the earth is circa 10,000 years old. First of all, answer my post. Second, what's the question? I was just commenting on how there were giants back then. I mean, if you mean time, then yes, I do.

Well then, in that case Mage, it's all opinion. I think life does start at conception. Now, for me at least, I don't know when a soul is in a body. But, many people think at conception a soul is there.

Awesome job, hon!!!!

So I asked my dad what he would say Obama's policies are, and he agrees with GW in that, they're not Socialist, not even marxist, but Stateist.

Not necessarily, I don't agree with Capital Punishment, simply because it's an easy way out. But, the thing is, is the baby did nothing to deserve that, and can't speak for itself. But I see what you're saying about putting it in cruddy adoption homes. But, mainly pro life people (usually Christians) think that life is sacred.

I don't know why you even bother because you're a bloody genius and everyone else is a dumbass! :roll: First off: I apologize if I came off a bit harsh, but so do you, you're sarcasm isn't appreciated one iota. Second, while I'm quite sure Tryto is intelligent and such, he failed to convince me, is that a crime? Of course not. Just like if I try to convince an Atheist, and they're not, I don't get mad at them. Also, what I meant about the quote is stop arguing about semantics. Sure, we all know eventually humans will sink and such, but it's about the idea. Like the parable of the sower, some could say ' who the heck would throw seeds at stony ground, what an idiot!' But the whole thing was an idea, symbolism, the stony ground represented people who couldn't be swayed, and it was wasting time, such like it was wasting seeds. It's about the idea, not the ramifications. The idea is, that he tested the scientific method to his knowledge at the time. Ask a Question Do Background Research Construct a Hypothesis Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion Communicate Your Results He asked a question 'how can humans float?' He tested it: with plates, they didn't float. He constructed a hypothesis: Humans can't float. HE tested it, multiple times with several different objects. He analyzed his data, and he came to the conclusion: EVERYTHING sinks, NOTHING floats. (Much like ALL science is correct and NO religions are rational or logical.) And he told his mom the results heck, he labeled it 'The Theory of FLoating." Like Tryto says to his knowledge, it has never ever ever been proven incorrect. And has been proven correct many times. Now, the whole idea, is that the child is humanity at the moment, we have things that have never ever been proven incorrect, but that doesn't mean they're not wrong. And Lord of Frah, we've become shorter. There used to be 'giants.' That atheistic scientists discovered near Mount Arafat I think.

You never chanced you mind or position on anything before? First off, let me say this: Epic job Flying Jj, those were some of the best posts, things I believe in, but never even thought about it. Second: Tryto, you took those out of context. Thats like when Jesus said that drinking red wine is good for the stomach occasionally, you take it as he supports drunkeness. Of course not.

Then what type of life is it?

Here's what I don't get, how is a baby not life (even in the early stages. I mean, if cells are replicating, then how is that not life? It certainly isn't non existant, or dead.

God is Omnimax, according to the bible. He knows everything that will ever happen and has happened, and can do absolutely anything. Despite this, he created humanity, KNOWING that they would be seduced by a serpent. He created the serpent, KNOWING that it would seduce Eve. He created the tree of knowledge, KNOWING that it would be eaten despite his telling man not to(This is still ridiculous, as since humanity at this time has no knowledge of good or evil, and thus doesn't know that eating the apple is bad. "God told them so" is not a good reason). So, I come to the conclusion, that should he exist, he deliberately inflicted these "scars" upon you, on purpose, in full knowledge. That is, of course, if he existed, which based on this is not logical. If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able? Then he is not omnipotent, directly contradicting the bible. If he is able, but not willing? Then he is evil, as he allows evil to happen even though he could easily stop it, as well as CREATING that evil, in the FULL KNOWLEDGE that it would be evil. If he is able and willing? Then evil should not exist. If he isn't able or willing? Then he's not God. ~Epicurus. Just as an aside, there is no mention in the bible whatsoever of the serpent being Satan. Not at all. Also, to that quote: God can prevent evil, but he does not want too, this in no way makes him evil. He decides that until we mess up and learn for ourselves, we'll never get it right. He could save us from everythingand anything, but he wants us to do it ourselves. Just like if your parents make you do something you haven't done, but they coud easily do, they usually (not counting the parents who are just lazy :XD: ) so the child can learn how to do it right, sure they may mess up, but they'll get it right. And naturally be mad at the parents because the parents made them do it, instead of doing it themsleves. But the parents know that when the Child gets out into the real world, they'll have to do things for themselves. God is like the parents, he could get rid of evil, but nothing would be accomplished, people would re create it. Or, God COULD make us all slaves to him, but then we'd HAVE to worship him. In my opinion, I think that he wants people to come to him and worship him. He doesn't want to force people, but I could be wrong. And also, he never created evil, in that sense, evil will always exist unless he makes us mindless robots. Which he won't do. Except this analogy is terrible. The kid messes up but gets another chance and isn't punished drastically. On the other hand, if you die while not believing in the right God or gods, you are punished forever and get no second chance. You can't even tell God that now that you have proof he exists, you'll believe in him. But apparently humans only get one chance to make the right choice. And God already knows which choice we're going to make... You're obviously not getting it. And also, it's ytour fault if you don't believe in him. It's not that hard, you don't have to be rich or anything, also, if you're an Atheist, how can it hurt? I mean, if there is a God, then you're safe, but if there isn't... Howlin, give me a break. The kid doesn't understand that, the kid only knows human adults are very heavy, even heavier than glass plates. James, you don't get it either. Why do I even bother. :|

God is Omnimax, according to the bible. He knows everything that will ever happen and has happened, and can do absolutely anything. Despite this, he created humanity, KNOWING that they would be seduced by a serpent. He created the serpent, KNOWING that it would seduce Eve. He created the tree of knowledge, KNOWING that it would be eaten despite his telling man not to(This is still ridiculous, as since humanity at this time has no knowledge of good or evil, and thus doesn't know that eating the apple is bad. "God told them so" is not a good reason). So, I come to the conclusion, that should he exist, he deliberately inflicted these "scars" upon you, on purpose, in full knowledge. That is, of course, if he existed, which based on this is not logical. If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able? Then he is not omnipotent, directly contradicting the bible. If he is able, but not willing? Then he is evil, as he allows evil to happen even though he could easily stop it, as well as CREATING that evil, in the FULL KNOWLEDGE that it would be evil. If he is able and willing? Then evil should not exist. If he isn't able or willing? Then he's not God. ~Epicurus. Just as an aside, there is no mention in the bible whatsoever of the serpent being Satan. Not at all. Here's the thing, yes, he knows all that will happen, but he warns you. And so he wants you to tyrust him and not break his rules, if you do, oh well, face the music. It is called tough love. And also, you have no way to tell that 'God saying so is ridiculous,' because, who says God didn't walk the Earth before there was sin? And nothing you said makes his existance illogical. It's hard to explain, so I'll provide an analogy. The kid and his parents live in a city, no lakes or anything, simply building. The kid is doing dishes and such, and notices that every time he drops something that is not hollow (as in cups) it sinks to the bottom immediately, the heavy stuff at least, such as glass plates. Then his mom says 'we're going on vacation to the ocean!' and the kid, who is still rather young has no idea what it is. So the mom explains what the ocean is, the kid asks what they'll do and she says play in it. Play in it? Surely she means like a bath tub, she says no, it's deeper than that. What? So surely you'll sink, correct? The child wonders, but still, the mom replys 'no, you'll float on the top.' This of course makes no sense whatsoever to the child, so he goes to the sink, and experiments with it, he tests plates, bam they sink, silverware, everything. He gets to the cups, and it floats for a while, but still, it sinks. So naturally, the kid thinks the mom is lying, there's no way it's possible. To his knowledge, he has tested it, and it's all crazy talk. So they pack up, and go to the beach, and the parents get in and have fun, and the mom asks the kid to come in, he sees them float, but being obstinate that it's not real he refuses to go in. But eventually his mom and dad coax him in, and he floats, and he wonders why he ever douibted it, and wonders how anyone can deny the fact that humans float. Now, people will say "well of course, floating is scientifically proven." Well, that's not the point, to the child (humans in general) his way of science was proven correct. scientifically he proved that no one can float: Humans are heavy, Glass plates are heavy, Glass plates can't float, Humans can't float. God or religion in general, is like floating, you can test it all you want, any way you want, but you'll never know what it's like unless you actually experience it yourself. Also, to that quote: God can prevent evil, but he does not want too, this in no way makes him evil. He decides that until we mess up and learn for ourselves, we'll never get it right. He could save us from everythingand anything, but he wants us to do it ourselves. Just like if your parents make you do something you haven't done, but they coud easily do, they usually (not counting the parents who are just lazy :XD: ) so the child can learn how to do it right, sure they may mess up, but they'll get it right. And naturally be mad at the parents because the parents made them do it, instead of doing it themsleves. But the parents know that when the Child gets out into the real world, they'll have to do things for themselves. God is like the parents, he could get rid of evil, but nothing would be accomplished, people would re create it. Or, God COULD make us all slaves to him, but then we'd HAVE to worship him. In my opinion, I think that he wants people to come to him and worship him. He doesn't want to force people, but I could be wrong. And also, he never created evil, in that sense, evil will always exist unless he makes us mindless robots. Which he won't do. First off, Tryto, on your thing with Soddom and Gamorrah, he warned all of them, same with the flood. If a parents warns a child they'll be discipined if they don't stop sneaking cookeis, but they continue to, they disregarded him. And I don't think anyone knows why he lets genocide happen, but just because you don't know why he does something, does not make him 'illogical' and 'non existent.' And Tryto, regarding your point about the man, then it falls on you, not God for not helping the guy. Tryto, he just said he stayed Christian because HE DID AN EXTENSIVE JOURNEY. He doubted, but then believed.

The Bible also states that Pi is three. We also came to the conclusion that the bible should not be taken literally - Genesis least of all. No, we didn't conclude that. Just because you say something over and over concludes nothing.

Even if that were true (which it's not), what would be so bad about it? I'm not going to argue until you've elaborated on exactly why that's bad, given US unemployment rates are now at a 14 year high, and October was the tenth month in a row in which jobs were lost from the US economy. I just get the feeling you've heard the Republicans say "Socialist!" and you've gone "OH NOEZ WTF?!". What would be so bad about it? Eh, it's all opinion I guess. And, ta-da! Welfare does not fix unemployment, but worsens it. And I concede that he is not a socialist, but what is he then? Surely not a capitalist.

Awesome job!!!