Satenza

I completely agree the illegal settlements are horrible, and condemn those myself. I hate that to it's very core, and am ashamed for those who take place. But killing is an inevitable part of war. Israel has lost it's fair share of lives, I can gurantee that. It isn't one sided, and that's what war brings, I'm afraid. Oversimplifying anything in the favor of one side is pointless, and grants nothing. It isn't a war it is a resistance. Israel has of course lost lives, but not even one tenth of the lives lost by the palestinians. Despite the complexities the Israeli's are the aggressors and like the UN said, their actions are akin to war crimes.

Agreed, everything I will write will be over simplified because of the fact the issue is complex and I don't necessarily have the time to write long posts either. To respond to your last comment - no. It isn't simply the occupation of illegal territory that justifies the rockets. It is the consequences of what occupation does. Hundreds of thousands of refugee's scattered across the neighbouring countries with deeds and titles in their hands to houses now occupied by Israeli's or else demolished and who now live in camps because the countries won't accept them properly. The thousands upon thousands killed by one of the most sophisticated militaries in the world, or the ones orphaned by similar disasters and the many more crippled. Maybe all the people in Gaza suffering a slow death by starvation have reason to attack. Any resistance encountered is understandable and the bombs that fall on Gaza and destroy its hospitals and civil buildings only make that resistance stronger.

The very fact a blockade exists is to quash the resistance Israel has met from the Palestinians. I agree with you on that point, in fact I agree wholeheartedly. The problem with this point is the fact that it neglects that the resistance they were met with from Gaza and from Lebanon was because they have illegally occupied their territory for 40 years. So I agree that the end of the blockade is quite ridiculous, but only if it is predicated on the illegal occupation of territory and the constant settlement building. If, for example, Israel was to withdraw from the land it occupies illegally and into what was agreed with by the UN then the blockade would be over since the resistance to an illegal occupier would disappear. With every day and every life that is ended due to starvation or murder another resistance fighter is born, and a good job too.

Despite the fact that all ships had been through customs and checks in Turkey, which was prior to this event a close ally of Israel. I don't know if you're aware of this, but the relations between Israel and Turkey have been horrible at best, for quite a while. Drills were canceled, trades were canceled, even flights were canceled. Anyway, Israel didn't get any information on what's on the ships. Ever. It cannot just let it go by and ignore all possible security breaches. In the past, many ships were found to be carrying weapons and ammo on large amounts. Yes, relations deteriorated since the saturation bombing on Gaza however they still traded and Israel continued to sell weapons to Turkey. Turkey examined all the ships, Turkey is a NATO member. Israel is partnered with NATO. There is no way a NATO member would allow weapons into Gaza. It had already been searched. It was in international waters. The flotilla posed no threat in the slightest. As shown with the assortment of kitchen knives and wooden sticks found on board. Again, Israel had no information on what's was on the ships. Again, the ships were unsupervised. Again, there's a history of weapon smuggles, and Israel cannot afford security breaches. The searches were even streamed out live to the Israelis. Lol - no it isn't "petty". What is petty is the fact that you're just another Israeli apologist who passes over the aim of the mission and ignores the facts. The people on the boat weren't terrorists they were activists and the only act of terror is the boarding of their ships in the dead of night and the killing of innocent people. You still claim like the rest of the Israeli apologists on this thread that the victims here weren't those shot dead in cold blood, but were the soldiers who illegally boarded a ship designed to provide aid to the very people the soldiers are starving to death. The same course of action would of taken place later inside Israel's territorial waters, which is why I said it's petty. And trust me, I know exactly what's going on in Gaza, I don't wish that to my worst enemies. But Israel cannot stop it's blockade on Gaza for reasons both history, present, and logic point at. Yes - it can. Tell me why history, present and logic forbids them to end the blockade?

In response to the fact that they are allies. Not that Israel is a member of NATO. Turkey is not Israel, and saying that because a ship was checked by another country before leaving port it removes any justification for a country to search a vessel that is heading to their waters, disobeying warnings/requests from military vessels, and trying to 'run a blockade' is stupid, at best. A ship checked by an ally using the highest technologies after streaming it to the Israeli's means that an attack at 2AM in the middle of the night in International Waters is unjustified. Unless of course you think they have a magician on board that can conjure up guns and bombs? Source? All I could find is a vague reference to it being 'criticized' by the UN secretary general. http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2010/sc9940.doc.htm http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article7142055.ece http://current.com/shows/current-tonight/90711595_report-u-n-human-rights-chief-israels-blockade-of-gaza-illegal.htm All you have said and continued to say over and over is that they were justified since they suspected armaments. I have shown that suspicion to be unfounded and ridiculous.

Please tell me where I claimed Israel was a member of NATO before you post a list of all member states. Exactly. Which is precisely why the ships were checked and went through customs and the passengers were screened using the highest technology available. Turkey is a member of NATO and would never allow weapons or armaments into the Gaza strip via a flotilla sailing under the turkish flag after having been through customs in Istanbul. To do so would be diplomatic suicide and the end of their NATO membership. Jesus. The very fact they are in partnership and what I have explained above shows the lack of justification for Israel to believe Turkey would allow armaments through. Despite the Israeli bloackade which is illegal as declared by the UN, your justification for the attack on the flotillas was that they had reason to believe there were armaments and weapons on board. I have shown you - and pretty categorically - that there was no justification for them to think this. Perhaps you should go back to the drawing board and think of another reason or justification as to why there are ten less palestinian activists alive.

Lol. Yes it is. They have military agreements, trade agreements et cetera. None of which I agree with. The fact Turkey is a member of NATO and some of the flotillas were sailing under the turkish flag means that because of this act of piracy and attack NATO could legitimately launch full scale war against Israel - that is how serious it is. The reason I bring up NATO apart from this is because the majority if not all of NATO countries are allies of Israel in some sense. Therefore when Israel attacks one country, the agreement under NATO is that it is an attack on all countries. Any checks that Turkey do must be full and to the highest standard because otherwise if there had been bombs and weapons on board Turkey would be kicked out of NATO and perhaps even worse. Turkey would never let armaments through. To suggest it would is insanity. Edit: Also Israel is in partnership with NATO despite not being a fully fledged member.

I'm reading Homage to Catalonia by Orwell at the moment, his experiences during the Spanish Civil War. Very good after just finishing Down and Out in Paris and London.

Turkey =/= Israel They had the checks on live stream to the entire world. Everybody in the world knew nothing was on board. Turkey was an ally. A NATO member. You're clearly insane if you think Israel still had justification. What are you talking about. The Soviets and the US didn't even speak to one another during that period of the Cold War. Let alone were allies.

No it didn't have weapons on board - they had aid. The ships were checked in Istanbul by Turkey a close ally and member of NATO. The passengers went through the highest security checks.

Despite the fact that all ships had been through customs and checks in Turkey, which was prior to this event a close ally of Israel. It had already been searched. It was in international waters. The flotilla posed no threat in the slightest. As shown with the assortment of kitchen knives and wooden sticks found on board. Lol - no it isn't "petty". What is petty is the fact that you're just another Israeli apologist who passes over the aim of the mission and ignores the facts. The people on the boat weren't terrorists they were activists and the only act of terror is the boarding of their ships in the dead of night and the killing of innocent people. You still claim like the rest of the Israeli apologists on this thread that the victims here weren't those shot dead in cold blood, but were the soldiers who illegally boarded a ship designed to provide aid to the very people the soldiers are starving to death. The main problem in this incident and the main problem for the past 60 years concerning this crisis is that people like you can't recognise the obvious. Perhaps you didn't read the UN resolutions or the Oslo Accord. Maybe you were away when F16's roared over Gaza and decimated it and killed women and children indiscriminately. You obviously didn't see the people of Gaza running from phosphorous whilst their skin burnt off. If you did you'd perhaps develop a shred of humanity and realise who the perpetrators of these war crimes are.

Rares!

Oh, what rule are they technically breaking?

Junk trading and mint cakes are not indicative of the problem with the GE at the moment, and both have very little to do with it. Seeing as the main problem for Jagex is inflation (and to be honest, one that they have always been plagued with). I agree that the way in which the Grand Exchange operates needs reconfiguring, but it is difficult to do when even a small change can effect the entire order of things, sometimes unexpectedly. Jagex are only too aware of this fact I suppose and will not rush into any half hearted and ill thought out changes when it comes to the economy. Things do need to update more often, but with a player ran economy (and one that they vow will stay that way) and the current mass merchanting of items, any update that allows the Exchange to update more frequently would mean more of this merchanting would occur, to larger profits and at a more rapid rate. They have to walk the line between a player led economy, the undesirable consequences of this sort of economy and still limiting the possible ways of RWTing.

Why would Jagex be concerned with wanting to make these items more readily available? They are perfectly happy with junk trading. They have no issue with them. The only issue they should be addressing is inflation.

No they won't. Other items when discovered may come along and share their market. But I can't think of any.

I wish this sailing skills was coming out Honest :P

The convenience never existed for the most expensive items.

Lol, wut? Because mint cakes aren't rising fast enough and are therefore being used as cash? Of course trade limits are problems, but, as we've learned, they're completely necessary (RWT, if you didn't catch it, and yes, I believe Jagex's lies). People have found a way around the trade limits (junk), and there's nothing wrong with that. It's emergent game play, it works, and if people don't want to follow along with it, then too bad I guess. There was never any intention to make them rise in GE value, in fact, the more they rise the less useful they become. This is purely a result of trade limits.

Andrew already stated that he liked how people now use junk to increase the value of items that would otherwise have no real value. There is no problem to be fixed here.

It's possible, but there are people who camp at the GE all day until it updates just in order to get a wine. So you'd have to be quite dedicated.

I can't believe it took you that long to say mint cakes aren't discontinued. To be fair though, I have had some people offer me mint cakes for free, they're not that rare. But they're definitely a useful tool.

6 or 7

It's not really stupid. Although I have never been caught up in mint cakes, I think they provide a decent way for people to buy into the rares market now. I'm not sure where the confusion lies, things that have a stable low supply and high demand will obviously increase in value, especially since price and trading caps.

An inspiring conclusion.