darkmage099

and some people need to learn to read!

May I be about the 452nd person to say "Oww" or "Ouch" in this thread? Okay. "Owww!!!" that must have hurt!

People would get pissed off at Hillary too. As for me, my options are open to all except Guiliani and McKane.

AGREED

Epic fail. Nah, I'm not trying to start a battle. Canada was the only thing I can compare it to. I don't know a lot about AU dollars and such. I know I'm just pointing it out. fix'd. Yeah, it's important but it's not top-dog anymore. People who say war can help the economy are idiots. They don't realize what part of the war affects it. Iraq will certainly not help American economy

Who is many? Surely not everyone in the middle east! J Exactly! they're fighting against oppression and persecution. However, this differs from place to place but NOT because they are Muslim. It differs because of the way the culture is in that part of the area. While they may justify this by using religion, they are doing it fundamentally because they think they are persecuted and oppressed! The Qu'ran isn't telling them they are oppressed. The Qu'ran is telling them to fight oppression. It is their personal view on what oppression is. I view Jihad as a mental struggle against temptation, evil, etc. Every PERSON has their own interpretation. What reason do they have to say "leave me alone"? It's because they dont like American foreign policy. I agree they are going about it the wrong way but it's not because the Qu'ran telling them to. There is no passage in my religion that says "Go kill and be violent to things you dont like". Let me put it to you this way. the Bible and the Qu'ran have basically the same context in terms of violence. They are both violent, they both are fairly close-minded in modern day terms, and they both advocate the same thing. However, you see less extreme Christians than Muslims...but they have fundamentally the same holy book. Therefore, we can conclude it is the wicked people that I am ashamed to say follow Islam that are the root of the problem and NOT Islam itself. It is a small movement. We just have a crappy plan of going about it. No, I am not going to list my battle plans if I was president. All I'm saying is so far we have failed with our "highly trained army". Yes, we cant get out. Our plan fails. Yes, it is extremism but we should just let problems solve themselves. For example, split Iraq according to how the people want it. Like I said, you can NEVER impose democracy. Jihad is important but the context, I feel, is out of place. It's a huge problem. We made it that way and now we need to fix it. The problem is we cant. I would be mad but by no means would I use religion to justify it. It seems like you realize that religion is just a cover, but I am not sure. I am in the defense of my religion and how people perceive it. Yes, it is important that the general public be educated about my religion. I am not in the defense of terrorism, the general public of the Middle East, America, or any person. [/hide] First off, before responding to what you are saying, I would like to clear a few things up, because we are currently in a miscommunication :P. 1. Going back 2 statements ago, your point about extremists was irrelevant because I was arguing with [whoever it was], about demonstrating a violent passage in the Koran. It does not matter who follows it, even if nobody follows it. His argument was that there are no violent passages in the Koran, which I disproved, leading your point about extremists to be irrelevant. It doesn't matter if anyone follows them or not; they're still there. Thats why your point was irrelevant. Hope that's cleared up and understood. 2. You need to make which argument you are responding to clear. I am not linking the Koran to violence in Iraq and the middle east, I am linking the basis of Jihad in the religion and the basis of human rights. I am responding to your argument about there being a little number of extremists. You cannot link the argument in which I stated some violent passages in the Koran to my argument on the middle east. They were under two completely different basis's, I was simply showing a fact, not linking motives. That being said, I will proceed. I'll respond to quotes by number. 1. Many times throughout my argument I attempted to make clear that I was not talking about the Muslim population in whole. I never said everyone, and I never implied it. But I have read a few times that it is not uncommon to pray for the 'holy warriors'. Like I said, I am not referring to everyone in the middle east. 2. I agree with you, but due to their view of Jihad [there are many differentiations, as you stated yours, and Wikipedia said this also], it is not merely a basis of human rights. To us, that is the obvious case, however, Jihad makes it even a more profound cause. It's a cause on top of a duty in their mind. And I agree it is their personal view what oppression is, but that's only part of my point; religion has a different interpretation among people in the religion. 'Extremism' is just another interpretation of Islam. Anyone can take any set of ideals and interpret them and change them. It's application of what their interpretation to religion is, on top of a general issue of freedom and manipulation. For more information on motives for 9/11, read Imperial Hubris, a book written by 22 year CIA veteran Michael Scheuer. [http] 3. You can read about some of those motives in the wikipedia link stated above, and learn that the attack really wasn't out of the blue. Also, it's important to note that America has engaged in what some historians consider terrorism before. The most blatant example, that some historians regard, being the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. [note]. As you probably know, Japan committed terrorism in the attack on Pearl Harbor. Many can say that America was simply 'terrorizing' back. But if we engage in such terrorism tactics ourselves, can we rightfully condemn terrorist attacks of any kind? A bit of hypocrisy there, don't you think? [Just a side note and my view, it's really a debate without an answer, and I don't want to go too off topic]. But essentially, the extremists view that we disrupted and changed Saudi Arabia to keep oil prices cheap, which is essentially true to some extent [Google it for more information]. The terrorists simply believe that they hit us back with 9/11. That is their basis for saying 'leave me alone'. Now, you may be wondering, "what does this have to do with Islam?" I am not linking them to their religion, they linked it themselves. Many of them did not fear the attacks because they believe they were doing it for Allah. As for your second point, I agree with you again. It is a group twisting a text to their benefit. It can be done with any set of ideals, anywhere. 4. I agree, but it's not that small. And I'm not expecting you to list your battle plans :P, if the smartest minds in the universe all worked together, even they would not be able to formulate a good plan for Iraq. It's just a waste of time. It is a small movement, but it's not as small as we would like to think. 5. Never impose anything on a people, is a diplomatic rule of thumb. The English imposed their government on America back in the 1800's, and America disliked it so America rebelled. Is America not being hypocritical? It does not matter what they imposed, good or bad, it should not be done in the first place, America has no right to do such. And problems should be solved themselves, for there really isn't any other way to solve them. Like I said, it is a group twisting something to their benefits. They feel this is their obligation due to their religious text. 6. Yes, I do realize it is a cover. It is also a motivation, however. I understand what your motives in defending and upkeeping the name of Islam, for it is tainted by those who stereotype. They do truly believe, however, that it is their obligation as both humans with natural rights and humans whose duty is to defend themselves and their religion whenever threatened, using whatever force. Ofcourse, those are motivations that a non-religious person could have, but they feel it is even more of a duty. 1. I know there are violent passages in the Qu'ran but it all comes down to how you interpret it as well as how that relates to the modern-day. 2. It is Jihad's misinterpretation (in my view) that is the cover for extremism. And yes Jihad is part of our religion. 1. As a matter of fact, it is uncommon for Muslims to pray for these "warriors". I, however, do not know whether or not Muslims in the middle east pray for it. I'm almost positive they aren't praying for it directly (maybe indirectly). 2. 'greed 3. I think extremists feel threatened by American hegemony. I think they're also a bit jealous. 4. My point is our goals in Iraq were so far off and so poorly planned, and that is why America is having trouble. It is not because the terrorists have eluded our military (there are some). 5. My APWH teacher pointed that out :P . Democracy needs to be for the people BY the people. Not by a foreign country. 6. Agreed. I feel the effects of bias towards Muslims at school. Yes, they do realize that I am a nice person. They like me. But that's when they dont think of me as a Muslim. My example of a Muslim doesn't seem to convince them that all Muslims are bad people. I just try to clear misconceptions from those that will listen.

Who is many? Surely not everyone in the middle east! J Exactly! they're fighting against oppression and persecution. However, this differs from place to place but NOT because they are Muslim. It differs because of the way the culture is in that part of the area. While they may justify this by using religion, they are doing it fundamentally because they think they are persecuted and oppressed! The Qu'ran isn't telling them they are oppressed. The Qu'ran is telling them to fight oppression. It is their personal view on what oppression is. I view Jihad as a mental struggle against temptation, evil, etc. Every PERSON has their own interpretation. What reason do they have to say "leave me alone"? It's because they dont like American foreign policy. I agree they are going about it the wrong way but it's not because the Qu'ran telling them to. There is no passage in my religion that says "Go kill and be violent to things you dont like". Let me put it to you this way. the Bible and the Qu'ran have basically the same context in terms of violence. They are both violent, they both are fairly close-minded in modern day terms, and they both advocate the same thing. However, you see less extreme Christians than Muslims...but they have fundamentally the same holy book. Therefore, we can conclude it is the wicked people that I am ashamed to say follow Islam that are the root of the problem and NOT Islam itself. It is a small movement. We just have a crappy plan of going about it. No, I am not going to list my battle plans if I was president. All I'm saying is so far we have failed with our "highly trained army". Yes, we cant get out. Our plan fails. Yes, it is extremism but we should just let problems solve themselves. For example, split Iraq according to how the people want it. Like I said, you can NEVER impose democracy. Jihad is important but the context, I feel, is out of place. It's a huge problem. We made it that way and now we need to fix it. The problem is we cant. I would be mad but by no means would I use religion to justify it. It seems like you realize that religion is just a cover, but I am not sure. I am in the defense of my religion and how people perceive it. Yes, it is important that the general public be educated about my religion. I am not in the defense of terrorism, the general public of the Middle East, America, or any person. That's rather offensive and derogatory, don't you think? There's no need to mock the religion just because somebody you don't like belongs to it, and a minority extremist sect at that. IN all my time on TIF, I'm pretty sure I know Tigra well enough to know that he's kidding.

Yahoo finance--doubt this is wrong.

my bad but its close

I'm not saying it should be a law. I'm just saying that this should already be implemented in class. The teacher still has more power than the student because he/she can decide when it gets out of hand.

LOL The US dollar is almost the same as the Canadian Back when I moved here it was 60 cents to a dollar. Wow, what a turnaround. I wonder how it'll be in 6 months. (Ill add more info later)

Your point is irrelevant. No it's not. How can you justify Muslims who don't take action in violence as violent? Who prays for direct violence? Show me please. The people you speak of are a minority. Praying is to Allah, not for killers to keep killing. I don't even know where you got this from. In the Muslim Empires, Islam was promoted by state sponsorship just like Christianity in the Roman Empire. You were semi-discriminated against, but they still allowed you to live there. You seem to be misinformed. You seem to think that the majority of the Muslims in the middle east are terrorists. America is in Iraq because we cant get out. It has nothing to do with Islam. Fun fact: Most Muslims are not arabs Side note: America fails in Iraq because democracy is FOR THE PEOPLE. Therefore, the people need to want it. You can't impose democracy. irrelevant - the discussion is whether the Koran is a violent text; not the degree of literalism applied to it. It is whether the Qu'ran is a violent text that is irrelevant. It is how people interpret it and follow it we should be talking about. This determines how violent the Qu'ran actually is.

I think this is a good law. It can spark debate and give people insight on both creationism and evolution. I also see now way it can get out of hand because the teacher can still judge whether it is school appropriate or not.

Yup. I wouldn't do anything to annoy the person who's teaching me for basically free. :notalk: QFT. Don't annoy teachers. You WANT teachers to like you. They, after all, are giving you your grade.

Nice alt. Pump Iron.

I talked to the dude who bought your account. He seemed pretty cool. Semi-newbish but cool.

Because he asked the forum to show him violence in the Koran. Find people who actually follow that. I bet you'll find extremists.

Grade 10. It's misleading to say Freshmen because it can be either 10th or 9th grade. Therefore, DONT USE IT. Computer Programming AP World History Gifted Chemistry Gifted Language Arts Gifted Algebra II LUNCH Honors French II (no gifted)

Technology doubles every couple of years. I don't think the ice caps and ozone depletion will affect us until at least a century. We should have "unimaginable" technology in our lifetime.

And this is coming from...what logic?

Didn't really bother me. I just wanted something fast and easy. =( Just when I get into my lock (levle 36 atm) you leave. You make me cry, nadril.

That's what I thought. My thoughts are different. If you can get past the metaphors, most if not all religions are perfectly fine.

So I assume you think most/all religions are "flawed"? If it's specifically Islam then there's a problem.

I'm not violent :-$ No Muslim I know is violent. You just haven't been exposed to proper Muslims. You can thank the media for that.

Yo Wakka...why wasn't I invited...? I DO live in the neighborhood.