Tigra00

Stereotyping doesn't = racism. Huge difference between the two.

Be careful what you download, too. No executionable files, and make sure the file you're downloading has lots of positive comments and downloads so you know it isn't a keylogger...Chinese farmers like to do that now.

Bold: That's exactly in line with what we've been saying: If there is absolute morality, and God has instilled it in humans, it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in God, you will still know right and wrong. All your saying is, "I don't believe in God, but I still know right and wrong." How is that different from what we're saying? Italics: You've already made this accusation, and we've already answered it. Stop attacking statements we never made, and even explicitely denied making. To everyone else who responded to me, I'll respond after lunch. :) Because the only reason God exists is because you believe he does. There's never been any proof or anything. People only BELIEVE he exists. While I'm open to the fact that he may, I've fully accepted that, all things considering (the fact that there are dozens of religions all claiming to be right and that all the others are wrong being #1), God probably does not exist, and thus, I believe my "morality" is completely based around how I feel about things personally...NOT because something was instilled in me. You must remember - some people completely lack these qualities. You, of course, dismiss those people as being possessed by the devil and la-de-da, where as I can see they're apparently mentally ill. Nothin' to do with the devil. I can't recall one single case ever being documented of someone actually being possessed by the devil. People just ASSUME. And please, save the scripture quoting as "proof someone was possessed by demons". I'm still open to the fact that the Universe was created, even. But I'm really not open to "organized religion" of any sort being "right". I'd challenge you to tell me why your religion is right when all it is is copies of other people's religious stories, other fables, la-de-da, and then other people copied yours. I'm sorry, but I can't make a decision that may very well mean my soul will either be saved or burned eternally "on a whim" because of what a book says. I'd rather have confindence that if I'm a good little boy, I can simply say to God "You would punish the good? 'Kay, some God you are." and have that be that. I refuse to believe that if there is a God, he is absolutely unable to reason at all. It's black and white with religion - you're either goin' to Heaven or you ain't, when in fact, there is a HUGE grey area which falls into neither catagory. Another reason I dislike religion is because you refer to this grey area, still, as people whom are going to Hell, no matter how good or bad they were. Like I said, I refuse to believe God is less able to reason than a human is. Put yourself in his shoes once and ask yourself...Could you condemn someone for eternity just because they didn't accept you, even if they did more good on Earth than ANY human ever did? Just as an example. Of course, you'll say you could, because "Yea, well...The Bible says right here..." Well, who cares? That's why I don't like religion. Your arrogance infuriates me.

Intarweb, I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but 'kay. I never said anything remotely like that. I said that even our society, which is mostly religious of some sort, will kill people outside of our own society. And nice job with the little ninja-insult to 1/3 of the world. I like it when you guys imply that we're not "normal" unless we have religious influence. I have no religious influence, and I'm completely fine - Better than some religious people, you could argue...Because some religious people are NUTS-O, plain and simple. I'm very sound-minded. You'll never see what I'm saying because you're not allowed to. God doesn't allow that you question his absolute power and uber-ness. The bottom line, however, is that this "Morality without God doesn't exist" crap is just that - Crap. For the last time, I *do not* believe in some deity who is going to slap my wrist for being a bad boy, but I *STILL* know that if I killed someone, I would feel very bad for taking their life. It has NOTHING to do with being raised in a culture that says murder is wrong and everything to do with common sense. You don't take someone's life because, A-DUH, you don't want yours taken from you. Golden Rule thing. But of course, you'll just assume that I'm some stupid ape that would go around killing everyone if the Bible was never written. You're only insulting yourself aswell by saying that, but whatever. Not really my problem. You guys have fun arguing the complete pointlessness of "Absolute Morality" all day. We had a thread already with 10 pages of that complete nonsense, and I'd rather not take place in it again. I know I'm right, you know you're right, so what's the point?

ARGH!!!!!!!!

Your wrong. Anthropologists have discovered several tribes in the Pacific where stealing is acceptable. Wrong again. There are tribes in Ecuador where killing other people is actually how you GET into Heaven. It's not considered a bad thing at all. Like I said, that's part of their religion if they think it's okay to kill someone. Any NORMAL person knows better than to kill someone. And I'm still going with that there are no tribes who steal amongst themselves and find it okay. Stealing from others, perhaps, but not from themselves. And even Western Society steals from others, sooo... I do believe I am right, not wrong.

Please tell me that isn't really you in a thong on your website. :cry:

I highly doubt it's only $14 billion per year to feed every starving person on Earth, but yea...Even if you could get that money, I read that most of it is stolen by warlords and what not. But if it were $14 billion, I'm sure the USA would be footing the bill yearly if it were that easy. It really isn't that much money, considering we just spent...I forget, is it up to 200 billion yet on the war? Edit: Also thought it was worth noting that I'm not surprised the photographer of that last picture killed himself due to depression. I'd be rather guiltful too if I snapped a picture of a dying child and then just left. I dunno' about you, but I would have picked him up and taken him to somewhere, anywhere, that food was present. If I were to go to African, I most certainly would bring bags upon bags of food I could give out to people like that. Surely I may be mobbed, but whatever...I'm tired of seeing smiling faces of people like those Christian groups on TV who smile and ask for money and point out a starving kid and never show that kid being given food or anything from the people. Is there a "Don't feed the starving kid behind you!" rule there, or what?

well, i can think of better ways of putting it. but, yea, pretty much. you believe we cam from nothing, i believe we were made, call it even. :-w You have no idea what I believe. And if you want to get technical, you believe you came from nothing aswell. Or...Dust, was it? And a bone for the female? You just happen to believe a big sky-giant pushed the snowball down-hill, where as Evolutionists (I'm assuming you were refering to) believe science created everything. Though there is at least some proof of that, I don't know how much of that I believe either, but I don't believe in the Christian God so much. Or Islam...Whatever it may be, they all debunk themselves by the simple fact that there are so many of them and they all say they're right and everyone else is wrong.

We're not saying the same thing. Like your second to last post...What you'd have me believe is that God instilled us all with these values, weither we believe in him or not. So you expect to me accept that God has instilled me with values. Okay, fine...But when I ask "Where is your proof for God?" you seemingly like to argue that we have morals, thus there is a God. That's circular logic at best, and a theory without proof at worst, but...'kay. I'm not sure why you just can't accept that people know what's right and what's wrong WITHOUT any intervention from a devine being. Intarweb, there is no society where stealing is acceptable amongst all it's people. I don't even have to look it up to tell you that is false. If tehre is a society of people who all steal, they'd all be pissed off at eachother for stealing from eachother. As for killing people, some people, like the infamous cannibals and stuff, do that as part of religion or whatever. Don't knock their views n' stuff. But in all seriousness, there are also no societies where murder is fine and dandy amongst it's people. They may murder OTHER societies, but if you're going to argue that that means they accept it as "right", then you're saying Western society says it's cool to do too...You know...Iraq and all... But nevermind, you guys had me defeated from the get-go, considering the "God did it because it's there, and it's there because God did it!" defense just can't be broken, no matter how dumb it is... :-w

I'd love for you to point out exactly where we so much as implied that, when in fact we have been purposefully avoiding any appearance of that belief, since we do not believe it. Nowhere have I said that morals come from Christianity. I believe that morals come from God, and have been instilled in all humans, as I said ealier. (They need not necessarily come from my God, but there must be an absolute, transcendant source for there to be any real morality.) All of your supporting arguments support my point, not yours. If people still knew that those things were wrong even before Judaism/Christianity, then doesn't that make it seem like Judeo-Christian morality is absolute morality? If Egyptians merely knew certain things were right and wrong, without the Bible telling them so, doesn't that imply that those morals are absolute? If God is the source of absolute morality, and He has instilled that morality in mankind, then doesn't it make sense for people to follow that morality to some degree even if they don't know of the Judeo-Christian God? Uhhh, or perhaps absolute morality has nothing to do with a silly book, and everything to do with what all humans just find to be wrong. I don't believe in God, and I'll be the first one to tell you that watching a video of someone being killed is probably the nastiest thing you could ever watch. You, for some reason, assume and assert "God did it!" into this, where as I ask "Why is that automatically the case?" when I clearly don't believe in God, and can clearly see that humans find certain things to be wrong and certain things to be right automatically. When someone LACKS these qualities, it's called "mental illness", not "lack of God in their life"...and for good reason.

And I am saying you're wrong. I don't need God to slap my wrist and say "Bad boy." in order to not stab someone in the face and rape their girlfriend. I know that stuff isn't cool in the first place. If you can't comprehend that someone doesn't need God in order to find that wrong, then I truely pity you...Because if you didn't believe in God, you'd be quite the dangerous character, then. You don't find it sad that you have to have a reason to not be a jerk? I mean, a reason besides just common sense?

You're missing the ENTIRE point. We're not saying Christianity/Judaism are the basis for every form of morality that has come up. In fact, we've said multiple times that it is blatantly untrue to even suggest that. The commentary about Judeo/Christian values is that they have shaped the Western world, and forms of morality found elsewhere in the world also have religious roots. Not Christian roots - religious roots. Whether that be Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other religion or indigenous belief. You are grossly misquoting our point. You should be ashamed of yourself for such blatant intellectual dishonesty. My intellectual dishonesty? You guys are the ones suggesting that if the Bible was never written, we'd all be a bunch of mad savages. So, the Bible shaped Western Society...Okay. And what did it shape it with? Our laws? Okay. And what does that mean, that if they didn't shape our laws, that the laws wouldn't be there and we'd all be murderous crazy people? You're not saying it directly, but it's fully implied. You just won't SAY it because you know how stupid it sounds, but even when you disect what you ARE saying, it comes out as that. There's no other way to slice it.

I find the mere suggestion that Christianity = Morality to be rather insulting not only to myself, but to everyone to have ever lived BEFORE Christianity, or even Judaism, even came to be. There were several religions BEFORE Judaism, and there have been many after. Each one of those people had their own morals to follow, and even those of us who are not religious know that, hey...Stabbing someone in the face is probably not cool. You should feel as if you're insulting yourself aswell, by implying that you're too stupid NOT to kill someone without God telling you it's wrong. It's pretty baffling that you guys think Jewish/Christian laws have = absolutely morality since the beginning of time, when infact, they were even AROUND back then and people STILL knew it was wrong to do such things. I've said it before, but it seems you all like to ignore it...Take Egypt for an example. When someone stole, they'd remove their hand. When someone murdered, they were delt with. Did Egyptians follow your morals? No. Infact, they enslaved Jews. Obviously they didn't need the Bible to tell them what was right or wrong, did they?

There is no religious basis for that lot, quite the opposite, so don't give me that "the decalogue is a great way to live", because that sample above looks to me to be a far better way of living than an ancient tablet. That's a fine set of rules, but what reason do you have to follow them? I mean, you have your set of morals, and I believe that you'll follow your morals because you want to follow them, and because you're a moral person. But I see no reason why you should have a binding commitment to a set of morals that have no justification other than your choice to follow them. What basis do you have for saying those things are good? Are they good because you say they are good? Do you have any right to criticise those who follow a different set of moral guidelines? EXACTLY! WHY DO IT IT DOESNT REALLY MATTER IF YOU DO IT OR NOT! Uhh, same reason you guys follow yours...To not be a jerk. Or are you out-right admitted that the only reason you follow them is because you want your reward from God? Seems rather selfish. Have fun not getting it, if that's the case. And I don't think Noah's Ark is a story of "ethnic cleansing". I do believe it's written that *everyone* was being evil, thus...They were all killed, 'cept the one guy and his family. It never says God killed anyone because of race, and it never says he picked Noah due to race. Granted, I think Noah's Ark is a load of bull, but still.

Like I said, everything should be unbiased...I looked at both sides of it immeidately and though "Well, maybe he'd think that falls under bearing false witness.." which you'd have to stretch to make it seem so, but yea. I still got him on the kiddie pr0n laws!...I suppose you could stretch adultery, but...Ah screw it. I went to far into it, whereas you gave him two full-on commandments that have no laws for them. Don't blame me, I don't know all of 'em anyways. :P

Desperate. It's all a numbers game for Microsoft and Sony. They will literally give consoles away like that (essentially, they did, and then some) just to say they sold more consoles. Microsoft makes all their money on software, and Sony makes all their money on TV's, hardware, la-de-da-de-da, whatever else they sell, so it really doesn't matter how many they sell...It isn't for money, it's for numbers. It's why they're both losing money per console sold anyways. Microsoft loses $100, I think it was, and Sony loses $200. A very dumb man once said "Yep, we lose money on every job, but we make it up in volume!"...True story, a guy that my dad knew said that, reguarding his business. It was funny. :lol: I have to say though, I would have bought a PS3 for the free HDTV. I can't imagine how lucky those guys who got one felt. I would have been so grateful. ...Then, I would have put the PS3 up on eBay, and even sold it at a loss, if I had to...Which according to current eBay sales of PS3's, I would of had to.

yea my bad, didnt even think about those i would think that would go under " bearing false witness" AKA lying. Do you only think that because I said it FOR you, or do you REALLY believe that? Of course, you'll say you really believe that...But I believe that if I never said that, you wouldn't have said it. I believe you to be bearing false witness currently. ;)

really? let me think, theres like 100000 laws in the united states that all just enforce 10 things. know what they are? the ten commandments. id say that if everyone followed them the world would be BETTER not worse? In a perfect world. And communism also looks good on paper. What does that tell you? People are evil. Millions of people HAVE been killed in the name of God and Jesus. Crusade's, anyone? And the only Christian excuse for it today is "Yea, but...Those aren't Christian views. That's not what Jesus taught.." True, but it still happened in the name of the religion. And I also find it quite humorous you think ALL laws are based around the ten commandments. I'll give you one example that obviously has nothing to do with anything remotely religious... - Bill Number H.R. 554 of the 109th Congressional Party, also known as the "Hamburger Bill", you can no longer sue fast food corperations for "making you fat". You could argue, however, that it is lying, since obviously those people are responsible for their own actions...So...Lets go with...I dunno'...Anti-kiddie porn laws. That work for you?

You're descriminating against him for descriminating against you. :-w :-w :-w WHICH ONE OF THESE IS NOT LIKE THE OTHERRRR? :-w :-w :-w

And IMO, the next person to use the words "Fat" and "American" in the same sentance should be punched in the face repeatedly for being an ignorant poo-poo head. As I've said before, the UK, Europe...Whatever you're all calling yourselves, is essentially tied with America for fattest people on the planet. America has the most adults whom are obese, Europe has the most children whom are obese. If you ask me, the latter is probably worse. Any parent who allows their child to become a walking snowman should be slapped with a stupid-stick. Unless you're in ethiopia, you know damn well 1/4 the people in your country are fat, lazy bums. Don't pretend like they're not.

I think Richard Dawkins is a mouth-breathing butt-muncher, but that's just me. I've read segments of his book and have seen him do interviews, and nothing he says is new or revolutionary...I've seen better debate here, infact. Plus, he over-does it on the anti-God rhetoric. I remember one particular quote where he went on for like 20 words describing how God acted in the bible using words like "Malevolent", "dangerous", "racist" (umm?), "ethnic cleanser" (again, umm?), etc etc etc. He just kept going...For like 20 some words. Maybe more. I was like "Okay, I get the point. God isn't very pleasant..." only to be slammed in the head with MORE hateful words...I mean, a couple would have done it justice, but the way he did it just made him seem like an some dude with an anti-religion agenda, no matter how right his statements were. I believe that any "disproving" of the Bible and/or God should be done without bias...I mean, it's quite simple to do when you use simple common sense. You don't need to use hate to do it.

Saying that there are sources that say 9/11 couldnt of been done by muslim extremeists but its blatantly obvious that it was. Was just saying.

Yea, we can't get into a war with Iran right now. They're an actual militarized country...You know, one with an army and air force capable of actually putting up a fight...Unlike Iraq, who's leader ran and hid in a hole in the ground, quite literally, when we attacked.