It will continue for a long, long, time. Maybe you arn't in a place where you see it so much.

Defender, that's all very nice, except there isn't a scrap of evidence for any of what you described in the first half of your post.

 

 

 

You are correct but also incorrect.

 

 

 

Its true, I have no physical evidence other than the Bible that agree's with what I have said. Infact, its where I got the information.

 

 

 

However.. God is not a physical being. He's a spiritual being. Now let me ask you, and you can disagree. Do you believe your a spirit? Assuming you said "yes"..

 

 

 

How can we prove that we have spirits? We can't "see" ourselfs.. but we know they are there?

 

 

 

Back before Christ, if you told people about germs and micro organisms, they would probably say "show the proof". Well, seeing as you don't have microscopes way back then, you simpley cannot. However, you know that is what is true, even if a million people disagreed.

 

 

 

In the same way I feel its true for Christians. Alot of people (and I do mean ALOT) ask for proof of Gods existance. They do not want to go on what they would call Blind Faith.

 

 

 

They want evidence, they want facts.

 

 

 

Well guess what? God is a spiritual being, and intill we get spiritual technology, that evidence is going to have to wait..

 

 

 

Besides, God will stick with his word, that he is only pleased by faith. However, even if you could see God, that does not mean you automatically accept Jesus.

 

 

 

For example.. people say "If I saw God, I would accept him". Well, when Jesus was in his ministry, acting JUST like God, in every way, and the pharasee's who critized and persecuted him said "We will believe if you show us a miracle!"..

 

 

 

And you know whats funny about it? He did miracles all the time! Everyday! People was getting healed.. sickness ran from them. People who were crippled could walk, the blind could see.. and here they are seeing this, and still saying "show us a miracle!".

 

 

 

Infact, they got to the point where they started saying he had a devil in him and that it was the devil doing these things (yeah, good things!).

 

 

 

And let me tell you another thing, in Revelations, in the last days.. people will have 2 signs.

 

 

 

1. The rapture of the church. Yup, if millions of people dissappear, hopefully that will say "yes, Gods definatly got to be real now!". So does everyone get saved? Nope! They will probably think its some new technology power to avoid accepting Jesus..

 

 

 

2. Angels will be present. Yes, at one point in time during the tribulation, 3 angels will be flying, 1 preaching the word, another one is telling people do not recieve the mark of the beast.

 

 

 

I mean, hey, if thats not enough evidence, then what is? So.. does everyone in Revelation accept Jesus now after seeing those angels and the warnings? Nope, it says their stubborn and refuse to accept God..

 

 

 

And this is after physically seeing 2 signs!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Remember, God can show up in your living room right now and have a chat with you, but after the conversation, you still do not have to accept Jesus, you still do not have to follow God if you don't want to.

 

 

 

The most tragic thing ever is heaven is free to everyone thanks to Jesus.. yet so many people say no. Its really not a hard decision to make. Course, those who don't believe think otherwise.. all I can say on that is, they better make 100% sure they are right on their standings.. because if christians are right.. (which I believe we are)

 

 

 

:(

 

 

 

~Defender~

One thing satan wants us to believe is that he does not exist, hell is not a place anyone is destined.

 

 

 

What can oppose god's will. I'd always though the answer would be NOTHING. Allowing a figure such as satan to screw with our heads is surely against god's will. What can oppose god's will? It seems satan can. God created everything, including satan. He had a divine plan and now we have a creature of pure evil lurking beneath waiting to screw with our heads. That's just plain wierd, you know, seeing as god's will can not be opposed at all, nor has it ever been or nor will it ever be. I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong, though (I hope so).

 

 

 

I agree with defender. Without God, humans would just be really smart animals; no better than a monkey.

 

 

 

Yeah, basically. Does this mean we are like every other animal and should just revert to being anamalistic savages, no. We are still, in my opinion, the most complex and incredible arrangement of matter known to man.

 

 

 

 

If there is no afterlife or deity or supernatural then all we are left with is evolution and the fact that we are a mutated lump of chemicals. Without some sort of supernatural element out there that transcends the mere proteins and what not that make up our bodies then all that leaves us is the fact that we are just a bunch of complex chemical chain reactions. That's it.

 

 

 

Dude, you make it sound so depressing. Our biochemistry is truly incredible and awe inspiring. And you know what? God planned for us to turn out exactly like we are now through an incredible process of life from the smallest of particles, building us up piece by piece. No way, jose', no 6 days for us, it's the perfect creation in the making for billions of years.

 

 

 

(In case yall can't tell, I'm appealing to his belief with what I believe is something believeable which does not conflict with science. Imagine the power of a god who can have a plan to make the universe expand at close to the speed of light from a singularity, condense fundamental particles into ions and then atoms which make compounds and then gasses and rocks and then planets and stars and on one of these tiny, tiny planets, complex chemicals interact and begin to self-replicate, joining to more and more to form incresingly organised and effective systems to proliferate thier replication, then these systems become cells, cells become multicellular organisms, these organisms become more and more complex where we find mammalian reproductive systems and nervous systems which gives them the ability to think, reason, comprehend, search, find, interact and react. And then... us. Now THAT god would impress me. ).

 

 

 

 

I mean, hey, if thats not enough evidence, then what is? So.. does everyone in Revelation accept Jesus now after seeing those angels and the warnings? Nope, it says their stubborn and refuse to accept God..

 

 

 

 

"It" says? I'm assuming you mean the bible, in which case, not quite, sorry. My actions aren't dictated by a piece of literature and trust me, I would at least think about it when angels start telling me things. :lol: :P

If there is no afterlife or deity or supernatural then all we are left with is evolution and the fact that we are a mutated lump of chemicals...

 

 

 

I wasn't really clear I guess, I think I actually do agree on that in your more formal definition of a higher power:

 

 

 

It doesn't matter who or what that higher power is.

 

 

 

In other words, I agree on it as long as a specific God (or any 'God', "as a person wanting something, created it for a purpose") is not brought into it as a necessity, but rather only the necessity of "something supernatural".

 

 

 

I addressed this as well in my example. Look at number 1 in the list of reasons it might be bad and refutations of why those can't create absolute moralities.

 

 

 

Yes I agree, but I wasn't really talking about deriving solutions for great moral issues from it, as everyone has a different opinion on those any way. I'm more talking on a case by case scenario. I mean, it seems well possible to me to derive that something is good/bad if everyone (literally!) finds it good/bad? Sure, such situations are certainly scarce, but are they totally non-existant and/or would it still be wrong to derive good/bad from such a moral issue even if all people involved agree that it is either good or wrong? Do keep in mind that in the examples you gave it was a majority who said that it was good/wrong, not everyone. Just a thought.

 

 

 

The most tragic thing ever is heaven is free to everyone thanks to Jesus.. yet so many people say no. Its really not a hard decision to make. Course, those who don't believe think otherwise.. all I can say on that is, they better make 100% sure they are right on their standings.. because if christians are right.. (which I believe we are)

 

 

 

Firstly, the whole idea of an agnost is that he's not sure on his standings at all. That said even if I were to decide to believe in a God, I'd still have trouble choosing which one. Sure you claim that your God is "the" God, but other religions claim otherwise and considering the factual evidence of all these religions is precisely the same, all these religions have the same chance of being the "true" one to me.

 

 

 

Wait a minute, you were saying that is not a hard decision to make? No, you just claim that your religion is the right one so it's not difficult. Objectively speaking there is, to me at least, absolutely no reason why one religion would have a higher chance of being "true" then another (providing any of them is true at all) though.

 

 

 

Another interesting question I'd like to ask you is if God discriminates between someone who believes in him and someone who does not, providing they live exactly the same life (apart from anything related to religion, of course). And if God does discriminate solely for the sake of someone not believing in him, then why does he do that and in what way does that express itself more concretely?

 

 

 

I actually tend to ask this question oftenly to those who really do take their religion *serious, like you, so I'm curious to your answer.

 

 

 

* = Unlike most people who say that they believe, in my opinion.

Another interesting question I'd like to ask you is if God discriminates between someone who believes in him and someone who does not, providing they live exactly the same life (apart from anything related to religion, of course). And if God does discriminate solely for the sake of someone not believing in him, then why does he do that and in what way does that express itself more concretely?

 

 

 

I actually tend to ask this question oftenly to those who really do take their religion *serious, like you, so I'm curious to your answer.

 

 

 

* = Unlike most people who say that they believe, in my opinion.

 

 

 

I've asked this very same question to other religious folk before, with varying answers. The general theme of it is though, despite me living a generally clean* wholesome life, i'm still going to hell. :P

 

 

 

*ish

 

I actually tend to ask this question oftenly to those who really do take their religion *serious, like you, so I'm curious to your answer.

 

 

 

* = Unlike most people who say that they believe, in my opinion.

 

 

 

When Defender had a thread about what to spend his $1000 dollars he had on. He put things like a car, television, material things.

 

 

 

I told him that if he truley followed his religion he would give it to the poor, or use it to help people. Needless never responded, just said get back on topic, and even said that I needed help for not giving him a "real suggestion". Most people just beleive, they talk the talk but when it comes to it they don't do much. I think you should look a little futher than him if you are to find someone who really is devout enough to answer that.

I think you should look a little futher than him if you are to find someone who really is devout enough to answer that.

 

 

 

Well I actually had a few nice discussions on this with a good friend of me IRL. It was funny to see his initial reaction, which was exactly along the lines of what assassin_696 just said: "you'll be going to hell anyway". :P

 

 

 

After giving a critical response on that - after all the difficulty of the question lies in the supposively discriminating God - he gave it some more thought and got back to me on it later by saying that technically, those who don't believe but who do live a completely good life should be able to get into heaven anyway.

 

 

 

Although, I can imagine that the views of various believers (and I guess the seriousness of their believe depends on that too) differ on this anyway.

Another interesting question I'd like to ask you is if God discriminates between someone who believes in him and someone who does not, providing they live exactly the same life (apart from anything related to religion, of course). And if God does discriminate solely for the sake of someone not believing in him, then why does he do that and in what way does that express itself more concretely?

 

 

 

I actually tend to ask this question oftenly to those who really do take their religion *serious, like you, so I'm curious to your answer.

 

 

 

* = Unlike most people who say that they believe, in my opinion.

 

 

 

Here is the answer to your question.

 

 

 

You are saying.. both men lived the excatly same way excate for their religious views. So what you are saying is..

 

 

 

"Why cannot the other man, going to hell, buy his way into heaven with his good deeds?".

 

 

 

Its simpley because we have all sinned. We've all done wrong to God. We've all did it one way or another.

 

 

 

Sin is thing you want to do in your life, if you want to cut God out of your life.

 

 

 

Morals do not have the power to purchase heaven.

 

 

 

Now, all you have to do to go to heaven, is cut away sin. Anyone here, anyone anywhere else in the world, can easily get to heaven. All they have to do is cut the sin out. But we do not have the power to do that, only Jesus died for our sins.

 

 

 

Once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, all your sins are gone. Their wiped out, God does not remember them at all.

 

 

 

For example, if you sin, you ask God for forgiveness, and then you ask God for forgiveness again, and he says "For what?".

 

 

 

You know Adam never pleased God because his morals. Morals is following what one could say "a Good life".

 

 

 

So why is someone with good morals going to hell anyway? Morals do not have the ability to purchase your eternity. Only Jesus Christ did that, and its completely free.

 

 

 

The thing is, there is no middle ground. There is no "i'm in the maybe section over here". Jesus says your either for Christ, or against him. There is no middle ground.

 

 

 

The thing is, all it takes is 1 sin to cut the connection between God, so when adam ate the apple, thats when all of this stuff started happening.

 

 

 

Let me show you how bad sin is. Lets image the perfect world, with Adam and Eve in it. Nice yeah? Don't have to work.. can eat all the tastiest fruit in the world, just not that 1 tree. God gave everything to Adam.

 

 

 

Now, when Adam sinned.. that put you and me here today. In a world full of sin. Look and abserve the results of sin. Its manifestation surely does not contribute to society in any good way.

 

 

 

Sin is something we owe to God, it has to be repaid back. Only Jesus can pay that price.

 

 

 

I think the question is.. why would you not accept Jesus because he "might" not be the truth? If he isn't, you die and have nothing to worry about! But if he is.. you'll have lots of worrying.

 

 

 

Personally I don't want to say your going to hell, but then I wouldn't be speaking the truth on the matter. Anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ, reguardless of how they live their life, is .. going to hell.

 

 

 

As for Satenza, do you know God? Do you think he is very upset with me because I decided to buy myself something with my check? I know he is not.

 

 

 

Not every penny you recieve should go to the poor, and there is no commandment to do such a thing. And if you judge Christians by their money, I pity you. There is more than 1 way to help out a poor person.

 

 

 

Where I am currently, there is no poor people I know of.. had their been, I surely would have helped anyway I can!

 

 

 

~Defender~

If life is about asking for forgiveness and accepting God then why does your signature say;

 

 

 

Life is about Life. If you thought about people, you are correct about life.

 

 

 

It's a lie. Your saying Life is only about accepting God and asking for forgiveness. Thats not moral, thats just a cheap way out of having to pay for the bad you have done.

 

 

 

Your life isn't about life, it's about the afterlife. It's not about the people, it's about saying sorry to God.

Not every penny you recieve should go to the poor, and there is no commandment to do such a thing.

 

 

 

It says in the Bible to tithe 10% of your money.

If life is about asking for forgiveness and accepting God then why does your signature say;

 

 

 

Life is about Life. If you thought about people, you are correct about life.

 

 

 

It's a lie. Your saying Life is only about accepting God and asking for forgiveness. Thats not moral, thats just a cheap way out of having to pay for the bad you have done.

 

 

 

Your life isn't about life, it's about the afterlife. It's not about the people, it's about saying sorry to God.

 

 

 

I wrote that statement in my siggy, so I know its meaning, you only know the surface of it.

 

 

 

The statement, life is about life, is true. Life is about people.. have your read my "how long could you live alone" thread? Thats what I was reffering to. Friends, family.. all of that. It was to take people off materialistic thinking, and to let them know, what they really want in life is friendship, family.. and yes, even God. If you know God, his whole purpose is to save his creation, and have a bigger family.

 

 

 

Life about Life is a correct statement.

 

 

 

Why you would suddenly twist the words..calling me a lier and say i'm all for God and not people is beyond me. Is life not about people? Is not life also about God?

 

 

 

I think you just want me to be wrong because your not for God. If anyone is taking cheap shots here, its you buddy. I notice you'll try to find anything you can on me, but go right ahead. Doesn't really bug me if you call me a lier when I am not.

 

 

 

 

 

It says in the Bible to tithe 10% of your money.

 

 

 

Yeah it does, but I mean there is no commandment saying we should give to poor people. However, we still must do what we can to help.

 

 

 

Satenz was basically saying I wasn't a true christian because I didn't give my 1000 dollars to the poor, but there is no commandment to do that. However, i'm not saying I wouldn't help, but its quite funny a man who isn't even christian himself, saying he knows what a real christian is.

 

 

 

~Defender~

I'll throw my view on "Christian salvation" into the mix.

 

 

 

I believe it's not about living a 'clean' life. There are atheists that live clean lives, and Christians that live [developmentally delayed]ed lives. That can't be it. What I believe, is that it is the Christian's acceptance and declaration that they are unable to live a decent life and need God to extend grace to them. That is the heart of Christianity - we accept that we are helpless people, and accept the grace that God is willing to give us.

 

 

 

Thus, I believe a "saved" person is one who realized that they need God to live a loving life and that they need God to give grace to them because we ARE going to screw up.

 

 

 

The thing about a "clean" atheist is that, well, they aren't actually clean (from my perspective). Just like from my perspective, a "clean" Christian isn't clean either. The difference is, since a Christian has accepted God's grace and depends on God to live, the Christian is clean in God's eyes because the Christian has accepted God's grace and forgiveness, whereas the atheist has not.

 

 

 

As for heaven and hell:

 

 

 

Heaven is often described as the presence of God. Why the hell would an atheist complain about not going to heaven if heaven is the very thing an atheist chose NOT to have in their lifetime on Earth? It doesn't make any sense to me. Atheists choose "not God" in their lifetimes, and all of a sudden it's unfair to have "not God" in their afterlives?

 

 

 

Hell is often described as the mere absence of God's presence. Fire and brimstone is a description given in Revelation, an extremely symbolic book. When an atheist goes to hell, they are getting what they chose in their lives on Earth - the absence of God's presence. You're getting what you ask for.

I was saying you wern't a true christian for even considering helping people with it. All your choices were for matierial possessions not for others.

 

 

 

And now somethings not a commandment we can all of a sudden loosen the rules on it?

You are saying.. both men lived the excatly same way excate for their religious views. So what you are saying is..

 

 

 

"Why cannot the other man, going to hell, buy his way into heaven with his good deeds?".

 

 

 

Not completely, I'm saying: why does God discriminate between the two and, to turn your own question around, why does "accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior" mean so much to God that doing that "buys" you your way into heaven? The difference is not the good deeds they both did, the difference is that one believes and the other does not.

 

 

 

Right now, I'm observing that you're indirectly saying that God doesn't care one single bit about whether what we do on this earth is good or not. As long as we eventually 'accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior" all your sins are gone.

 

 

 

Not only does this God sound completely immoral to me, I fail to see what this God tries to reach by all this. Does he wants us to live a good life or does he wants us to continue asking his forgiveness for our sin forever. Your interpretation seems to be that he only wants the latter.

 

 

 

The thing is, there is no middle ground. There is no "i'm in the maybe section over here". Jesus says your either for Christ, or against him. There is no middle ground.

 

 

 

Where did all the "love your neighbour" ideology go to, why all this hate creation towards non-believers? Since when does your God promote this and what are his motives for that? Does he not see that hate creation in itself is a sin?

 

 

 

But if he is.. you'll have lots of worrying.

 

 

 

Why does your God tell you to threaten people that if they don't believe then they will be undergoing "the worst of all". And don't say you're just warning, you're threatening: "If you don't believe you WILL undergo it".

why does "accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior" mean so much to God that doing that "buys" you your way into heaven?

 

If a person could "buy" their way into heaven with good deeds in the first place then why did Jesus have to come die for us?

 

 

 

Right now, I'm observing that you're indirectly saying that God doesn't care one single bit about whether what we do on this earth is good or not.

 

Actually Jesus wants us to love him above all else. He then goes on to say "but if you love me you will obey my commandments." A Christian is "good" not because he has to be but because he loves God and wants to please him. In programmer lingo it is an If Then statement. The focus is on loving God and loving others but due to this the good works will follow not as an obligation but rather out of love.

 

 

 

Where did all the "love your neighbour" ideology go to, why all this hate creation towards non-believers? Since when does your God promote this and what are his motives for that?

 

I think this is just a difference of perspective. My guess is Defender is only taking the time to write out all he is saying because he cares about the people on this forum and he believes that accepting Christ is the best thing anyone can do with their life. Because he believes this and because he cares about the people he is talking to he feels driven to share what has made such a difference in his life because he wants others to feel what he feels.

 

 

 

On the other perspective Duke is sitting here cruising the forums and sees some guy telling him he is wrong in what he believes for what he sees as no reason and rightfully from his perspective gets annoyed.

 

 

 

So out of curiosity did I sum that up about right Duke and Defender?

If a person could "buy" their way into heaven with good deeds in the first place then why did Jesus have to come die for us?

 

 

 

To show people how to live and that we can make the world a much better place if everyone betters his life? But I don't know, I don't believe anyway.

 

 

 

Because he believes this and because he cares about the people he is talking to he feels driven to share what has made such a difference in his life because he wants others to feel what he feels.

 

 

 

And it takes him so far that he wants to force it upon people? Sorry, you are only making it worse to me with that reasoning. In that case he should know better, forcing things upon people is never good.

 

 

 

And in opposite to whom would he care so much? I wouldn't be around in this topic if I didn't give a ... about the world. I believe in my 'right' as well, however I just don't go around saying that all christians are fools and will burn in hell just because I think that they are wrong?

 

 

 

Nor do I understand how any God, who - correct me if I'm wrong - wants to reach heaven on earth, can actually send good willing people to this to-be-feared hell and still be consistent with his goal?

 

 

 

On the other perspective Duke is sitting here cruising the forums and sees some guy telling him he is wrong in what he believes for what he sees as no reason and rightfully from his perspective gets annoyed.

 

 

 

I'm just not getting how you can group people as christs and anti-christs like that and then say that your believe wants to reach heaven on earth? This hate creation in itself will already disallow heaven to exist on earth in the first place.

 

 

 

I get annoyed from the "I am right" attitude of most believers and frankly I don't understand how that kind of attitude even fits in their own religion either.

Mods, at your discretion I would have no problems if you locked my thread or merged it with the other one because it's gone so off topic from the original question and is basically on the same train of discussion as the other thread so it's kind of redundant now.

You are saying.. both men lived the excatly same way excate for their religious views. So what you are saying is..

 

 

 

"Why cannot the other man, going to hell, buy his way into heaven with his good deeds?".

 

 

 

Not completely, I'm saying: why does God discriminate between the two and, to turn your own question around, why does "accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior" mean so much to God that doing that "buys" you your way into heaven? The difference is not the good deeds they both did, the difference is that one believes and the other does not.

 

 

 

Right now, I'm observing that you're indirectly saying that God doesn't care one single bit about whether what we do on this earth is good or not. As long as we eventually 'accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior" all your sins are gone.

 

 

 

Not only does this God sound completely immoral to me, I fail to see what this God tries to reach by all this. Does he wants us to live a good life or does he wants us to continue asking his forgiveness for our sin forever. Your interpretation seems to be that he only wants the latter.

 

 

 

The thing is, there is no middle ground. There is no "i'm in the maybe section over here". Jesus says your either for Christ, or against him. There is no middle ground.

 

 

 

Where did all the "love your neighbour" ideology go to, why all this hate creation towards non-believers? Since when does your God promote this and what are his motives for that? Does he not see that hate creation in itself is a sin?

 

 

 

But if he is.. you'll have lots of worrying.

 

 

 

Why does your God tell you to threaten people that if they don't believe then they will be undergoing "the worst of all". And don't say you're just warning, you're threatening: "If you don't believe you WILL undergo it".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not completely, I'm saying: why does God discriminate between the two and, to turn your own question around, why does "accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior" mean so much to God that doing that "buys" you your way into heaven? The difference is not the good deeds they both did, the difference is that one believes and the other does not.

 

 

 

In the old testament, to get rid of your sin, you had to sacrifice animals which claimed your sin apon them.

 

 

 

In the same way, Jesus is know as the calf because he took all of our sins apon him, HE was the sacrifice.

 

 

 

If you don't accept that he took your sins when he died, he can't claim them, you still have your sins that need to be paid.

 

 

 

 

 

Right now, I'm observing that you're indirectly saying that God doesn't care one single bit about whether what we do on this earth is good or not. As long as we eventually 'accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior" all your sins are gone.

 

 

 

Not only does this God sound completely immoral to me, I fail to see what this God tries to reach by all this. Does he wants us to live a good life or does he wants us to continue asking his forgiveness for our sin forever. Your interpretation seems to be that he only wants the latter.

 

 

 

God knows we are not perfect and time and time again we all make mistakes and mess up. God DOES care how we live. If you live in sin, you won't have the blessings of God apon you. If you live in the teachings of God, you stay connected with him and you get extreemly blessed beyond measure.

 

 

 

God loves you so much that you are saved either way, thats how much Grace and Mercy he has, however you won't reap the benifiets now if you live a life of sin. Trust me, you will have a miserable life, and at the same time, hurt God. He gave the choice to you though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where did all the "love your neighbour" ideology go to, why all this hate creation towards non-believers? Since when does your God promote this and what are his motives for that? Does he not see that hate creation in itself is a sin?

 

 

 

One man asked Jesus, what is the greatest commandment? And Jesus replied "Love your God with all your heart, soul, body and mind. And second, love your neighbor as yourself, all the law hangs on these 2 commandments".

 

 

 

Not all christians love non-believers and need to put it in practice. However, if you feel I have shown hate for you, I am sorry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why does your God tell you to threaten people that if they don't believe then they will be undergoing "the worst of all". And don't say you're just warning, you're threatening: "If you don't believe you WILL undergo it."

 

 

 

Whats a warning? If you don't believe in Christ, hell is your future.

 

Whats a threat? If you don't believe in Christ.. Hell is your future?

 

 

 

To me a warning and threat in this situation would be the excate same thing. However, a warning is given in love, a threat is given in hate.

 

 

 

Once again, as much as I would love and like to tell you that heaven is still a option without Jesus.. its simpley not scriptual, and I would be lieing to you if I told you otherwise.

 

 

 

And God himself said this, so you could say God is warning you. God doesn't want you to believe in him through Hell and fear. No, but it is a place that does exist and he's trying to save you from it if anything!

 

 

 

If your sin has not be claimed by Jesus, and that can only happen when you believe he took it (for God operates by faith), then your sin is still on you and when you die, you must pay the price of sin.

 

 

 

The price of sin is death, where hell is. Its not a really complicated thing at all..

 

 

 

If you don't want to believe in Jesus you don't have to.. but hell is a place where people go. Personally I wish those who don't believe in God would be non-existant afterwards.. but then sin would go unpaid.. and God would be unjust and Satan would have won.

 

 

 

~Defender~

First of all, I'd like to say that I love how people like to talk about something like they think they understand it, but in reality they have no clue what they're talking about. Yes, as in when people talk about God.

 

 

 

You guys have never met God, never talked to It, never even seen It at all. And yet, you all talk as if you're frikking authorities on It. C'mon people, doesn't that sound slightly arrogant to anyone else at all?

 

 

 

And you guys want to know what believing in Christ is? No, it isn't sitting in some church and praying to him and God so you don't go to Hell. It's going out, helping people, and being like Jesus. It's proving his point that he is the Way, Truth, and Light if you act with Jesus as your precedent. He was an amazing virtuous man, who "saved us from our sins" by being a precedent without sin (or close to without sin) for us to follow.

 

 

 

He saved us from sin and Hell not by some supernatural method, but by teaching us how to be good people. And by being good people, we are with "God" (i.e., a being of absolute truth). And by being with "God", we are away from "Hell".

 

 

 

People just get frikking caught up in all the magic and supernatural stuff, and get blinded towards the simple message wanted to get across- love your neighbors, do anything you can to aid them. Stop praying in a frikking church, and go to a frikking third world country, or simply any place here or anywhere that needs aid, and help people, if you're anywhere close to serious about your faith.

 

 

 

Rant over.

Exactly Rebby, like I said before. People get to caught up in the rights and wrongs and forget the meaning on what religion attempts to achive here on earth. Thats peace. Liberty is peace.

Exactly Rebby, like I said before. People get to caught up in the rights and wrongs and forget the meaning on what religion attempts to achive here on earth. Thats peace. Liberty is peace.

 

 

 

And truth and love and goodness and kindness and acceptance, tolerance, fairness. But. People. Just. Can't. Stop. Letting. Peripheral. Crap. Get. In. The. Way.

 

 

 

The thing is, if you strip Christianity down to the bair essentials, take away all of the literalist interpretations, I'd almost consider following it. It portrays a beautifully simple message if you can look past the literalism.

 

 

 

Now I've made myself curious. Does the bible say anywhere that it should be taken word for word, letter for letter? Answers appreciated.

First of all, I'd like to say that I love how people like to talk about something like they think they understand it, but in reality they have no clue what they're talking about. Yes, as in when people talk about God.

 

 

 

You guys have never met God, never talked to It, never even seen It at all. And yet, you all talk as if you're frikking authorities on It. C'mon people, doesn't that sound slightly arrogant to anyone else at all?

 

 

 

And you guys want to know what believing in Christ is? No, it isn't sitting in some church and praying to him and God so you don't go to Hell. It's going out, helping people, and being like Jesus. It's proving his point that he is the Way, Truth, and Light if you act with Jesus as your precedent. He was an amazing virtuous man, who "saved us from our sins" by being a precedent without sin (or close to without sin) for us to follow.

 

 

 

He saved us from sin and Hell not by some supernatural method, but by teaching us how to be good people. And by being good people, we are with "God" (i.e., a being of absolute truth). And by being with "God", we are away from "Hell".

 

 

 

People just get frikking caught up in all the magic and supernatural stuff, and get blinded towards the simple message wanted to get across- love your neighbors, do anything you can to aid them. Stop praying in a frikking church, and go to a frikking third world country, or simply any place here or anywhere that needs aid, and help people, if you're anywhere close to serious about your faith.

 

 

 

Rant over.

 

I'm thinking you are arrogant for telling religious people how to live their life. What did Jesus say before he said love your neighbour?

 

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment." Christianity is not foremost about aiding those in need. It all starts with loving God.

First of all, I'd like to say that I love how people like to talk about something like they think they understand it, but in reality they have no clue what they're talking about. Yes, as in when people talk about God.

 

 

 

You guys have never met God, never talked to It, never even seen It at all. And yet, you all talk as if you're frikking authorities on It. C'mon people, doesn't that sound slightly arrogant to anyone else at all?

 

 

 

And you guys want to know what believing in Christ is? No, it isn't sitting in some church and praying to him and God so you don't go to Hell. It's going out, helping people, and being like Jesus. It's proving his point that he is the Way, Truth, and Light if you act with Jesus as your precedent. He was an amazing virtuous man, who "saved us from our sins" by being a precedent without sin (or close to without sin) for us to follow.

 

 

 

He saved us from sin and Hell not by some supernatural method, but by teaching us how to be good people. And by being good people, we are with "God" (i.e., a being of absolute truth). And by being with "God", we are away from "Hell".

 

 

 

People just get frikking caught up in all the magic and supernatural stuff, and get blinded towards the simple message wanted to get across- love your neighbors, do anything you can to aid them. Stop praying in a frikking church, and go to a frikking third world country, or simply any place here or anywhere that needs aid, and help people, if you're anywhere close to serious about your faith.

 

 

 

Rant over.

 

I'm thinking you are arrogant for telling religious people how to live their life. What did Jesus say before he said love your neighbour?

 

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment." Christianity is not foremost about aiding those in need. It all starts with loving God.

 

 

 

Ok, how about this for an interpretation. All of those nice warm fuzzy things in my post just before yours are loving god. We were created in god's image and thus, loving others is a representation of how we can physically love god.

I'm thinking you are arrogant for telling religious people how to live their life. What did Jesus say before he said love your neighbour?

 

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment." Christianity is not foremost about aiding those in need. It all starts with loving God.

 

See, that's the kind of blind crap that ticks me off.

 

 

 

Did not Jesus, or God, or some divine being say "If you are loving people, you are loving me?" Dunno, I'm paraphrasing it. Anyways, if there was a God, It wouldn't want us to be sitting in a Church praising It, it'd want us to help everyone we can here on earth. That is, unless It has an inferiority complex or something.

 

 

 

As a non-rhetorical question, would you seriously say that it's better to sit in Church and "praise God" rather than helping people, which is what It would want us to do? Sitting in a church does absolutely nothing for anyone. Going out and aiding the world does.

 

 

 

Ghandi loved God. You want to know why? Because he loved and helped people. He's billions times better than that arrogant [wagon] sitting in a confession booth thinking that they're better than him because their Christians and "repent", if you can really call what most people do true repenting.

 

Ok, how about this for an interpretation. All of those nice warm fuzzy things in my post just before yours are loving god. We were created in god's image and thus, loving others is a representation of how we can physically love god.

 

Sure, loving others is loving God as you're obeying his commands. But there must be a difference between loving God and loving your neighbours. I think you can love God stranded on an Island with no one else on. I love him for everything he's done for me. And I try to love my neighbours as I love God and want to do what he says.