MY questions to extremest in fundamentalism...

[bull912000]

I want to spend but one year of my life completely detached from material possessions and the world, and train at a Hindu or Buddhist temple hidden in the mountains. :

 

 

 

That would be an experience that could help me get a better grip on life.

 

 

 

But my point, religion isn't a bad thing at all, it's the believers not the religion itself. The religion itself never specifies what to and what not to believe. They are always changing things, the Catholic Church.

 

 

 

You would be shocked to know that most Fundamentalists are not Catholic. In fact, they are trying to repair the damage done to Christianity by the Catholic Church.

 

 

 

Lol, where i'm from, most everyone is southern baptist, which since the 1970's conflict, has been mainly fundamentalist. I don't see how some fundamentalist seem to rant against moderates and liberals more than people who don't seem to have any morality.

 

*Note* I did not say all fundamentalist, but alot of the leaders of the SBC.

 

[Barihawk]

Well, I am Methodist (a mainly moderate denomination) but I was exposed a bit to Southern Baptist by my grandparents. I am a part of the Fundamentalist movement.

 

 

 

I think our views are legitamate. However, many people on the internet seem to get "Fundamentalist" and "Literalist." The latter are the ultra-conservative 6000 year old Earth nuts.

[luvs2dans]

Those are some broad questions

 

I believe in God and Christ also.

 

The Bible doesn't give specific dates and times on when the earth was created. It just states..in the beginning..God created the heavens (first) and the earth.

 

It goes on to tell us about the history of man.

 

I read it every now and again...but what about dinosaurs? The bible doesn't mention them..but they did indeed exist. So apparently the earth was created many moons before 6000 years ago. (just my opinion)

 

 

 

And miracles, yes I believe they once happened...but I don't believe that they happen in today's times..I dunno..just my opinion. Well maybe I should say, if it is according to God's will..then I believe in that miracle. :)

 

 

 

 

 

Well actually :-k the bible does mention "great beast, that were the color of flames" and something else like that 8-)

[Barihawk]

Those are some broad questions

 

I believe in God and Christ also.

 

The Bible doesn't give specific dates and times on when the earth was created. It just states..in the beginning..God created the heavens (first) and the earth.

 

It goes on to tell us about the history of man.

 

I read it every now and again...but what about dinosaurs? The bible doesn't mention them..but they did indeed exist. So apparently the earth was created many moons before 6000 years ago. (just my opinion)

 

 

 

And miracles, yes I believe they once happened...but I don't believe that they happen in today's times..I dunno..just my opinion. Well maybe I should say, if it is according to God's will..then I believe in that miracle. :)

 

 

 

Dinosaurs would be among the beasts of the fields mentioned in Genesis. For all we know, God began his shift towards preparing Earth for Man millions of years ago, clearing out predators that would present a drastic challenge for Man to survive amongst. He would have known that Man would eat the fruit, and therefore be expelled from Eden and have to face predators.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

Darwin once said "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find no such case."

 

 

 

 

Darwin isn't an expert on contemporary biology, he didn't even know what DNA was. Why do people keep bringing this up like if it's meant to refute anything. All it shows is that Darwin didn't have very good foresight.

[assassin_696]

Those are some broad questions

 

I believe in God and Christ also.

 

The Bible doesn't give specific dates and times on when the earth was created. It just states..in the beginning..God created the heavens (first) and the earth.

 

It goes on to tell us about the history of man.

 

I read it every now and again...but what about dinosaurs? The bible doesn't mention them..but they did indeed exist. So apparently the earth was created many moons before 6000 years ago. (just my opinion)

 

 

 

And miracles, yes I believe they once happened...but I don't believe that they happen in today's times..I dunno..just my opinion. Well maybe I should say, if it is according to God's will..then I believe in that miracle. :)

 

 

 

Dinosaurs would be among the beasts of the fields mentioned in Genesis. For all we know, God began his shift towards preparing Earth for Man millions of years ago, clearing out predators that would present a drastic challenge for Man to survive amongst. He would have known that Man would eat the fruit, and therefore be expelled from Eden and have to face predators.

 

 

 

Oh please.

[Satenza]

I think your grasping at straws when you say God meant days in his time. If he is not bound by time, he isn't bound by days. If he is not bound by days he wouldn't have put a specific time on it. If he wanted to give Moses something he was able to understand he would have just said over a long period of time. The Bible specifically says days, no one would say days and mean millions of billions of years when their talking to a human who takes days as 24 hours. If Moses couldn't understand a time period longer than a day then i hardley think he is an intelligent reliable source to note all of what God says while stuck in a dessert in those conditions.

 

 

 

If God began clearing out the predetors then why is there giant creators in the earth showing a metiorite colliding with us? Did God take a break that day or did he smash a rock into the earth himself to get rid of them?

[Barihawk]

Those are some broad questions

 

I believe in God and Christ also.

 

The Bible doesn't give specific dates and times on when the earth was created. It just states..in the beginning..God created the heavens (first) and the earth.

 

It goes on to tell us about the history of man.

 

I read it every now and again...but what about dinosaurs? The bible doesn't mention them..but they did indeed exist. So apparently the earth was created many moons before 6000 years ago. (just my opinion)

 

 

 

And miracles, yes I believe they once happened...but I don't believe that they happen in today's times..I dunno..just my opinion. Well maybe I should say, if it is according to God's will..then I believe in that miracle. :)

 

 

 

Dinosaurs would be among the beasts of the fields mentioned in Genesis. For all we know, God began his shift towards preparing Earth for Man millions of years ago, clearing out predators that would present a drastic challenge for Man to survive amongst. He would have known that Man would eat the fruit, and therefore be expelled from Eden and have to face predators.

 

 

 

Oh please.

 

 

 

Excellent argument. And I'd thought this topic was going to diminish into some anti-Fundamentalist topic.

 

 

 

And I am serious on both counts. His questions are addressed to me, not you.

 

 

 

I think your grasping at straws when you say God meant days in his time. If he is not bound by time, he isn't bound by days. If he is not bound by days he wouldn't have put a specific time on it. If he wanted to give Moses something he was able to understand he would have just said over a long period of time. The Bible specifically says days, no one would say days and mean millions of billions of years when their talking to a human who takes days as 24 hours. If Moses couldn't understand a time period longer than a day then i hardley think he is an intelligent reliable source to note all of what God says while stuck in a dessert in those conditions.

 

 

 

If God began clearing out the predetors then why is there giant creators in the earth showing a metiorite colliding with us? Did God take a break that day or did he smash a rock into the earth himself to get rid of them?

 

 

 

Why wouldn't he smash them with rocks? He took down Sodom and Gamorrah with burning sulphur from the sky, didn't he? Which by the way has archeological evidence to support it. That's right, buy a plane ticket and go to the Middle East right now. Unfortunately the ruins of Sodom and Gamorrah are in a war zone right now, but you will plainly be able to see yellow dirt within the walls of the city. The sulphuric content of these cities is among the highest on Earth. And it stops at the walls.

 

 

 

And I am not grasping at straws.

 

 

 

After all, God did not create the sun and the moon until the FOURTH day. Without a sun or a moon to separate the day and the night, how would one measure the first three days?

[Satenza]

Those are some broad questions

 

I believe in God and Christ also.

 

The Bible doesn't give specific dates and times on when the earth was created. It just states..in the beginning..God created the heavens (first) and the earth.

 

It goes on to tell us about the history of man.

 

I read it every now and again...but what about dinosaurs? The bible doesn't mention them..but they did indeed exist. So apparently the earth was created many moons before 6000 years ago. (just my opinion)

 

 

 

And miracles, yes I believe they once happened...but I don't believe that they happen in today's times..I dunno..just my opinion. Well maybe I should say, if it is according to God's will..then I believe in that miracle. :)

 

 

 

Dinosaurs would be among the beasts of the fields mentioned in Genesis. For all we know, God began his shift towards preparing Earth for Man millions of years ago, clearing out predators that would present a drastic challenge for Man to survive amongst. He would have known that Man would eat the fruit, and therefore be expelled from Eden and have to face predators.

 

 

 

Oh please.

 

 

 

Excellent argument. And I'd thought this topic was going to diminish into some anti-Fundamentalist topic.

 

 

 

And I am serious on both counts. His questions are addressed to me, not you.

 

 

 

I think your grasping at straws when you say God meant days in his time. If he is not bound by time, he isn't bound by days. If he is not bound by days he wouldn't have put a specific time on it. If he wanted to give Moses something he was able to understand he would have just said over a long period of time. The Bible specifically says days, no one would say days and mean millions of billions of years when their talking to a human who takes days as 24 hours. If Moses couldn't understand a time period longer than a day then i hardley think he is an intelligent reliable source to note all of what God says while stuck in a dessert in those conditions.

 

 

 

If God began clearing out the predetors then why is there giant creators in the earth showing a metiorite colliding with us? Did God take a break that day or did he smash a rock into the earth himself to get rid of them?

 

 

 

Why wouldn't he smash them with rocks? He took down Sodom and Gamorrah with burning sulphur from the sky, didn't he? Which by the way has archeological evidence to support it. That's right, buy a plane ticket and go to the Middle East right now. Unfortunately the ruins of Sodom and Gamorrah are in a war zone right now, but you will plainly be able to see yellow dirt within the walls of the city. The sulphuric content of these cities is among the highest on Earth. And it stops at the walls.

 

 

 

Here an article from the BBC which puts it down to nature.

 

 

 

But now a retired British geologist, Graham Harris, believes he may have proved that the two cities really existed, and may have explained why they perished.

 

 

 

Unstable area

 

 

 

Dr Harris thinks Sodom and Gomorrah were built on the shores of the Dead Sea so that they could trade in naturally-occurring asphalt.

 

 

 

This tarry substance was used in ancient times to waterproof boats and to hold stones together in buildings.

 

 

 

But the ground next to the Dead Sea is very unstable, lying on the joint between two of the Earth's tectonic plates which are moving in opposite directions.

 

 

 

The area is vulnerable to earthquakes.

 

 

 

Flammable methane

 

 

 

Geological and archaeological evidence suggest that a huge one took place about four and a half thousand years ago - the time of the Biblical destruction.

 

 

 

Flammable methane pockets lie under the Dead Sea shores; the earthquake would have ignited them, the ground would have turned to quicksand, and a massive landslide would have swept the cities into the water.

 

 

 

Experiments carried out at Cambridge University have backed up this account.

 

 

 

But more conclusive evidence is still needed; not unless the remains of Sodom and Gomorrah are found under the Dead Sea's salty waters will the theory be proved.

 

 

 

After all, God did not create the sun and the moon until the FOURTH day. Without a sun or a moon to separate the day and the night, how would one measure the first three days?

 

 

 

So if his days didn't exist why would he ever say to Moses that it took him a time period of days when it's clear Moses would understand that day meant 24 hours? Theres no rational explanation as to why God would say "day" rather than "a long time" or "Next I created...". Day is there and it specifically means day.

[magekillr]

 

Darwin once said "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find no such case."

 

 

 

 

Darwin isn't an expert on contemporary biology, he didn't even know what DNA was. Why do people keep bringing this up like if it's meant to refute anything. All it shows is that Darwin didn't have very good foresight.

 

 

 

exactly...he WASN'T an expert on contemporary biology...that's kinda the point. he even stated in his quote

[warri0r45]

 

Darwin once said "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find no such case."

 

 

 

 

Darwin isn't an expert on contemporary biology, he didn't even know what DNA was. Why do people keep bringing this up like if it's meant to refute anything. All it shows is that Darwin didn't have very good foresight.

 

 

 

exactly...he WASN'T an expert on contemporary biology...that's kinda the point. he even stated in his quote

 

 

 

He wasn't an expert in todays biology because it's to advanced for him. He wasn't an expert in his days biology because he was a revolutionary thinker who went against the widely accepted and unquestioned views of creation.

[magekillr]

like i said before...i am no where near an expert in biology...i havn't taken a biology course in 4 years and it was limited to high school concepts.

 

 

 

speaking from that point..to me the cell seems complex...and if that's not complex i still dunno what is. so what did Darwin consider complex in the quote? :?

 

 

 

anyway, when looking at the "where humans sprung up from" and looking at the split off of gorillas and chimps and then starting the genus "homo"...i dunno

 

 

 

a common phrase is that human dna and chimpanzee dna is 98% identical..

 

 

 

that doesn't spring off the page to me because of the complexity and large scale of DNA..

 

 

 

take the speed of light...98% of the speed of light is still 6,000,000 m/s slower...so in 1 second the speed of light is already 6,500,000 football fields ahead of the 98%..

[assassin_696]

Those are some broad questions

 

I believe in God and Christ also.

 

The Bible doesn't give specific dates and times on when the earth was created. It just states..in the beginning..God created the heavens (first) and the earth.

 

It goes on to tell us about the history of man.

 

I read it every now and again...but what about dinosaurs? The bible doesn't mention them..but they did indeed exist. So apparently the earth was created many moons before 6000 years ago. (just my opinion)

 

 

 

And miracles, yes I believe they once happened...but I don't believe that they happen in today's times..I dunno..just my opinion. Well maybe I should say, if it is according to God's will..then I believe in that miracle. :)

 

 

 

Dinosaurs would be among the beasts of the fields mentioned in Genesis. For all we know, God began his shift towards preparing Earth for Man millions of years ago, clearing out predators that would present a drastic challenge for Man to survive amongst. He would have known that Man would eat the fruit, and therefore be expelled from Eden and have to face predators.

 

 

 

Oh please.

 

 

 

Excellent argument. And I'd thought this topic was going to diminish into some anti-Fundamentalist topic.

 

 

 

And I am serious on both counts. His questions are addressed to me, not you.

 

 

 

That's the kind of redundant logic that allow Christians to attribute any single natural event to a simple "God did it" and then rational people can't disprove that.

 

 

 

The fact is, the fossil record and the theory of evolution does not fit with the fundamentalist view of the Bible. But when you try and reconcile Genesis with it by saying "well, maybe God did this then God did that" then you're missing the point and trying to save an argument that's already on thin ice with the trump card of "God did it".

 

 

 

That's without even attacking the obvious flaws.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

exactly...he WASN'T an expert on contemporary biology...that's kinda the point. he even stated in his quote

 

 

 

So why quote him in the first place? The quote an video have nothing to do with belief in God. It's just another failed attempt at trolling biological science. Oh video looks complex, therefore Darwin is dumb and God done it.

[Barihawk]

 

 

 

But now a retired British geologist, Graham Harris, believes he may have proved that the two cities really existed, and may have explained why they perished.

 

 

 

Unstable area

 

 

 

Dr Harris thinks Sodom and Gomorrah were built on the shores of the Dead Sea so that they could trade in naturally-occurring asphalt.

 

 

 

This tarry substance was used in ancient times to waterproof boats and to hold stones together in buildings.

 

 

 

But the ground next to the Dead Sea is very unstable, lying on the joint between two of the Earth's tectonic plates which are moving in opposite directions.

 

 

 

The area is vulnerable to earthquakes.

 

 

 

Flammable methane

 

 

 

Geological and archaeological evidence suggest that a huge one took place about four and a half thousand years ago - the time of the Biblical destruction.

 

 

 

Flammable methane pockets lie under the Dead Sea shores; the earthquake would have ignited them, the ground would have turned to quicksand, and a massive landslide would have swept the cities into the water.

 

 

 

Experiments carried out at Cambridge University have backed up this account.

 

 

 

But more conclusive evidence is still needed; not unless the remains of Sodom and Gomorrah are found under the Dead Sea's salty waters will the theory be proved.

 

 

 

After all, God did not create the sun and the moon until the FOURTH day. Without a sun or a moon to separate the day and the night, how would one measure the first three days?

 

 

 

So if his days didn't exist why would he ever say to Moses that it took him a time period of days when it's clear Moses would understand that day meant 24 hours? Theres no rational explanation as to why God would say "day" rather than "a long time" or "Next I created...". Day is there and it specifically means day.

 

 

 

Err..."Thinks he knows where Sodom and Gamorrah are..."

 

 

 

The cities were found almost 30 years ago Satenza. Two giant pits of sulphur encrusted ruins in the desert. Not underwater.

 

 

 

And I still stand for my statement, Satenza. Days do not only mean one revolution of the Earth. They have also represented the word "era" and used in a metaphorical sense can indeed represent vast periods of time. The Bible often uses metaphorical speech.

[Satenza]

 

 

 

Err..."Thinks he knows where Sodom and Gamorrah are..."

 

 

 

The cities were found almost 30 years ago Satenza. Two giant pits of sulphur encrusted ruins in the desert. Not underwater.

 

 

 

Those may not be the cities of Sodom and Gamorrah, some beleive them to be underwater. Those places also lie on tectonic plates, with oil and natural gases underneath them.

 

 

 

And I still stand for my statement, Satenza. Days do not only mean one revolution of the Earth. They have also represented the word "era" and used in a metaphorical sense can indeed represent vast periods of time. The Bible often uses metaphorical speech.

 

 

 

Where have they represented the word era? A day means a day and it meant the same as it does now back then. When God says day to Moses he is saying day not "era" or "vast period of time".

[Barihawk]

Those are some broad questions

 

I believe in God and Christ also.

 

The Bible doesn't give specific dates and times on when the earth was created. It just states..in the beginning..God created the heavens (first) and the earth.

 

It goes on to tell us about the history of man.

 

I read it every now and again...but what about dinosaurs? The bible doesn't mention them..but they did indeed exist. So apparently the earth was created many moons before 6000 years ago. (just my opinion)

 

 

 

And miracles, yes I believe they once happened...but I don't believe that they happen in today's times..I dunno..just my opinion. Well maybe I should say, if it is according to God's will..then I believe in that miracle. :)

 

 

 

Dinosaurs would be among the beasts of the fields mentioned in Genesis. For all we know, God began his shift towards preparing Earth for Man millions of years ago, clearing out predators that would present a drastic challenge for Man to survive amongst. He would have known that Man would eat the fruit, and therefore be expelled from Eden and have to face predators.

 

 

 

Oh please.

 

 

 

Excellent argument. And I'd thought this topic was going to diminish into some anti-Fundamentalist topic.

 

 

 

And I am serious on both counts. His questions are addressed to me, not you.

 

 

 

That's the kind of redundant logic that allow Christians to attribute any single natural event to a simple "God did it" and then rational people can't disprove that.

 

 

 

The fact is, the fossil record and the theory of evolution does not fit with the fundamentalist view of the Bible. But when you try and reconcile Genesis with it by saying "well, maybe God did this then God did that" then you're missing the point and trying to save an argument that's already on thin ice with the trump card of "God did it".

 

 

 

That's without even attacking the obvious flaws.

 

 

 

As I stated before, and for the last time:

 

 

 

DO NOT CONFUSE LITERALISM AND FUNDAMENTALISM!!!1 Keep in mind by these terms I am referring to Christianity alone.

 

 

 

*Ahem*, now back on the subject.

 

 

 

Fundamentalism is the belief that God is supreme and that all of the miracles in the Bible are true. By definition, we are the folks that believe "God did it." Fundamentalist scholars do not doubt the fossil record or the existance of Dinosaurs. As I stated in a nother thread, I can literally walk to a museum 5 minutes away and touch a Tricerotops. We believe in the Creation and that the Bible is true. However, we acknowledge that the Bible is often written in figurative language, and must be deciphered to know what is meant figuratively and what is literal.

 

 

 

Literalism are the hardcore extremist righ-wing "Jesus Camp" nuts who believe in a Young Earth and that every last word of the Bible is true.

 

 

 

Let's compare a Fundamentalist and Literalist view of a Biblical prophecy:

 

 

 

In the Revalation of John, John's dream prophecizes a beast with 6 heads coming out of the depths of the Earth. The AntiChrist.

 

 

 

Fundamentalists believe that the prophecy will come true. We believe that the Beast will be a man with very high charisma and will fulfill the prophecies of the End Times.

 

 

 

Literalist believe that the prophecy will come true. They believe that a giant beast will come from the Earth and lead us. Literally.

 

 

 

 

 

And tell me why exactly the fossil record does not fit in with the "Fundamentalist" view? What exactly is the Fundamentalist view? Chances are, you will probably give me a Literalist view, because that's what you have been trained to think us Fundamentalists as.

 

 

 

I've already demonstrated my abilities to fight you in other threads Assassin. Please bring it on. I have just as vast a field of resources to use to prove my point as you do.

 

 

 

PS: God did it.

[Barihawk]

 

 

 

Err..."Thinks he knows where Sodom and Gamorrah are..."

 

 

 

The cities were found almost 30 years ago Satenza. Two giant pits of sulphur encrusted ruins in the desert. Not underwater.

 

 

 

Those may not be the cities of Sodom and Gamorrah, some beleive them to be underwater. Those places also lie on tectonic plates, with oil and natural gases underneath them.

 

 

 

And I still stand for my statement, Satenza. Days do not only mean one revolution of the Earth. They have also represented the word "era" and used in a metaphorical sense can indeed represent vast periods of time. The Bible often uses metaphorical speech.

 

 

 

Where have they represented the word era? A day means a day and it meant the same as it does now back then. When God says day to Moses he is saying day not "era" or "vast period of time".

 

 

 

So explain why two extraterranian ruins are enriched by sulphur in the manner described by the Torah, not underwater ones? You are simply evading my question.

 

 

 

Oh, and:

 

 

 

day [dey] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãânoun 1. the interval of light between two successive nights; the time between sunrise and sunset: Since there was no artificial illumination, all activities had to be carried on during the day.

 

2. the light of day; daylight: The owl sleeps by day and feeds by night.

 

3. Astronomy. a. Also called mean solar day. a division of time equal to 24 hours and representing the average length of the period during which the earth makes one rotation on its axis.

 

b. Also called solar day. a division of time equal to the time elapsed between two consecutive returns of the same terrestrial meridian to the sun.

 

c. Also called civil day. a division of time equal to 24 hours but reckoned from one midnight to the next. Compare lunar day, sidereal day.

 

 

 

4. an analogous division of time for a planet other than the earth: the Martian day.

 

5. the portion of a day allotted to work: an eight-hour day.

 

6. a day on which something occurs: the day we met.

 

7. (often initial capital letter) a day assigned to a particular purpose or observance: New Year's Day.

 

8. a time considered as propitious or opportune: His day will come.

 

9. a day of contest or the contest itself: to win the day.

 

10. Often, days. a particular time or period: the present day; in days of old.

 

11. Usually, days. period of life or activity: His days are numbered.

 

12. period of existence, power, or influence: in the day of the dinosaurs.

 

13. light1 (def. 19a).

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã

[yomom1919]

No matter how exaggerated the bible is, it still holds many historical truths. Remember that the biblical writers were trying to express a message and philosophy on god. But they werent only doing that. There are hundreds of historical truths in the bible. Although its still not accurate enough to be considered a historical text, that doesnt mean it is absolutely false in a historical sense. However, as commonly mistaken, Pointing out historical truths in the bible doesnt prove god; it merely proves that the biblical author included a certain quantity of historical quality in his text.

[warri0r45]

like i said before...i am no where near an expert in biology...i havn't taken a biology course in 4 years and it was limited to high school concepts.

 

 

 

speaking from that point..to me the cell seems complex...and if that's not complex i still dunno what is. so what did Darwin consider complex in the quote? :?

 

 

 

anyway, when looking at the "where humans sprung up from" and looking at the split off of gorillas and chimps and then starting the genus "[bleep]"...i dunno

 

 

 

a common phrase is that human dna and chimpanzee dna is 98% identical..

 

 

 

that doesn't spring off the page to me because of the complexity and large scale of DNA..

 

 

 

take the speed of light...98% of the speed of light is still 6,000,000 m/s slower...so in 1 second the speed of light is already 6,500,000 football fields ahead of the 98%..

 

 

 

Your scale there is a bit misleading. Humans have roughly 30,000 genes. 98% of that is 29,400. 600 different. Comparative DNA is pretty damning evidence. Either it happened as science explains or god made us think it did (or is telling us that it did). #-o

 

 

 

Added to that, there's comparative anatomy and embryology and the fossil record each of which suggest it happened. Again, either it did or god made it seem that way (or is telling us that it did). Added to that, microevolution is factual and there aren't exactly any barriers that I know of which would prevent macroevolution (if you know of any, click the link in my sig and tell us).

 

 

 

Setting aside any supernatural occurance, nature almost certainly suggests evolution. It's not really that far fetched when you look at it hypothetically.

[Rebdragon]

that doesn't spring off the page to me because of the complexity and large scale of DNA..

 

 

 

take the speed of light...98% of the speed of light is still 6,000,000 m/s slower...so in 1 second the speed of light is already 6,500,000 football fields ahead of the 98%..

 

:XD:

 

 

 

Relatively speaking, that's still pretty damn close. Don't just throw out big numbers to "justify" your points.

[Death_By_Pod]

like i said before...i am no where near an expert in biology...i havn't taken a biology course in 4 years and it was limited to high school concepts.

 

 

 

speaking from that point..to me the cell seems complex...and if that's not complex i still dunno what is. so what did Darwin consider complex in the quote? :?

 

 

 

I bet if you took an introduction course in car engine repairs, an aeroplane engine would look complex too.

 

 

 

With what I know in physics and a little bit of biochemistry, that video doesn't look too mystical. You need to remember that the video is a slowed down version of what happens in about a second. The chemicals are attracted to each other electrically, they don't magically drift towards the correct place. The same thing goes with the folding of proteins from their primary structure.

 

 

 

Darwin considered things like the cell complex because he couldn't see anything shown in that video. It looked like the cell ran by magic, rather then moving chains of chemicals and proteins.

 

 

 

 

anyway, when looking at the "where humans sprung up from" and looking at the split off of gorillas and chimps and then starting the genus "[bleep]"...i dunno

 

 

 

a common phrase is that human dna and chimpanzee dna is 98% identical..

 

 

 

that doesn't spring off the page to me because of the complexity and large scale of DNA..

 

 

 

But the percentage of shared DNA isn't important, all things need blueprints for proteins and organs. What's important are the genetic markers placed randomly by viruses in an ancestor and found in species split off from it.

 

 

 

 

take the speed of light...98% of the speed of light is still 6,000,000 m/s slower...so in 1 second the speed of light is already 6,500,000 football fields ahead of the 98%..

 

And it's 1 636 738 191 football fields to the sun, imagine how many football fields it would take to get to another star. 6.5 million football fields is insignificant.

[assassin_696]

[hide]

Those are some broad questions

 

I believe in God and Christ also.

 

The Bible doesn't give specific dates and times on when the earth was created. It just states..in the beginning..God created the heavens (first) and the earth.

 

It goes on to tell us about the history of man.

 

I read it every now and again...but what about dinosaurs? The bible doesn't mention them..but they did indeed exist. So apparently the earth was created many moons before 6000 years ago. (just my opinion)

 

 

 

And miracles, yes I believe they once happened...but I don't believe that they happen in today's times..I dunno..just my opinion. Well maybe I should say, if it is according to God's will..then I believe in that miracle. :)

 

 

 

Dinosaurs would be among the beasts of the fields mentioned in Genesis. For all we know, God began his shift towards preparing Earth for Man millions of years ago, clearing out predators that would present a drastic challenge for Man to survive amongst. He would have known that Man would eat the fruit, and therefore be expelled from Eden and have to face predators.

 

 

 

Oh please.

 

 

 

Excellent argument. And I'd thought this topic was going to diminish into some anti-Fundamentalist topic.

 

 

 

And I am serious on both counts. His questions are addressed to me, not you.

 

 

 

That's the kind of redundant logic that allow Christians to attribute any single natural event to a simple "God did it" and then rational people can't disprove that.

 

 

 

The fact is, the fossil record and the theory of evolution does not fit with the fundamentalist view of the Bible. But when you try and reconcile Genesis with it by saying "well, maybe God did this then God did that" then you're missing the point and trying to save an argument that's already on thin ice with the trump card of "God did it".

 

 

 

That's without even attacking the obvious flaws.

 

 

 

As I stated before, and for the last time:

 

 

 

DO NOT CONFUSE LITERALISM AND FUNDAMENTALISM!!!1 Keep in mind by these terms I am referring to Christianity alone.

 

 

 

*Ahem*, now back on the subject.

 

 

 

Fundamentalism is the belief that God is supreme and that all of the miracles in the Bible are true. By definition, we are the folks that believe "God did it." Fundamentalist scholars do not doubt the fossil record or the existance of Dinosaurs. As I stated in a nother thread, I can literally walk to a museum 5 minutes away and touch a Tricerotops. We believe in the Creation and that the Bible is true. However, we acknowledge that the Bible is often written in figurative language, and must be deciphered to know what is meant figuratively and what is literal.

 

 

 

Literalism are the hardcore extremist righ-wing "Jesus Camp" nuts who believe in a Young Earth and that every last word of the Bible is true.

 

 

 

Let's compare a Fundamentalist and Literalist view of a Biblical prophecy:

 

 

 

In the Revalation of John, John's dream prophecizes a beast with 6 heads coming out of the depths of the Earth. The AntiChrist.

 

 

 

Fundamentalists believe that the prophecy will come true. We believe that the Beast will be a man with very high charisma and will fulfill the prophecies of the End Times.

 

 

 

Literalist believe that the prophecy will come true. They believe that a giant beast will come from the Earth and lead us. Literally.

 

 

 

 

 

And tell me why exactly the fossil record does not fit in with the "Fundamentalist" view? What exactly is the Fundamentalist view? Chances are, you will probably give me a Literalist view, because that's what you have been trained to think us Fundamentalists as.

 

 

 

I've already demonstrated my abilities to fight you in other threads Assassin. Please bring it on. I have just as vast a field of resources to use to prove my point as you do.

 

 

 

PS: God did it.

[/hide]

 

 

 

I will concede that your interpretation of what a fundamentalist is is different to mine and the entire English school's syllabus' (and indeed, Wikipedia's), so a lot of my points are as you said, irrelevant. Clearly, there are variations on the actual definition of the word fundamentalist, yours might be applicable to you but not everyone else who can equally consider themselves fundamentalists.

 

 

 

However, the fact remains that you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole. A fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible does not fit with the mountains of scientific evidence against miracles, creation or indeed the supposed necessity for a creator.

[Barihawk]

As I stated before, bring forth these so called "mountains of evidence."

 

 

 

I am actually disappointed. I was looking forward to a good post from you.

 

And yes, as always when I say your "interpretation" is a view common amongst the internet, you tell me it's not true and give me a wiki link. Thanks for the laugh.

[hells_mishap]

 

day [dey] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãânoun 1. the interval of light between two successive nights; the time between sunrise and sunset: Since there was no artificial illumination, all activities had to be carried on during the day.

 

2. the light of day; daylight: The owl sleeps by day and feeds by night.

 

3. Astronomy. a. Also called mean solar day. a division of time equal to 24 hours and representing the average length of the period during which the earth makes one rotation on its axis.

 

b. Also called solar day. a division of time equal to the time elapsed between two consecutive returns of the same terrestrial meridian to the sun.

 

c. Also called civil day. a division of time equal to 24 hours but reckoned from one midnight to the next. Compare lunar day, sidereal day.

 

 

 

4. an analogous division of time for a planet other than the earth: the Martian day.

 

5. the portion of a day allotted to work: an eight-hour day.

 

6. a day on which something occurs: the day we met.

 

7. (often initial capital letter) a day assigned to a particular purpose or observance: New Year's Day.

 

8. a time considered as propitious or opportune: His day will come.

 

9. a day of contest or the contest itself: to win the day.

 

10. Often, days. a particular time or period: the present day; in days of old.

 

11. Usually, days. period of life or activity: His days are numbered.

 

12. period of existence, power, or influence: in the day of the dinosaurs.

 

13. light1 (def. 19a).

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã