Mods Closing threads b/c old threads were made

[the_drunk_dude]

No im not saying mods should not close new threads because there were threads on the same subject, but would it kill you guys to provide a link in ur closing thread?

 

 

 

yes its a BIT more work but it would

 

1) bump that old thread up discouraging others of making a new thread about the same subject because the locked thread falls into page 2~91238

 

 

 

2) just be more pleasant for the guy who started the now locked thread so he doesnt have to search all over the place and give up on his idea

 

 

 

yes i realize ppl SHOULD search first *hence the button -_-* but if they dont i think it'd be better if mods would just link them rather than saying

 

 

/closed because there is a thread about this subject already.

 

 

 

~sig

[Kaphias]

So then you make the mods search for the link?

[tripsis]

Personally, I always provide links (unless the thread I'm referring to is on the first page of the same forum, then I may make an exception) because that's my "proof" to myself that there is in fact another thread out there. But you do have to remember that we moderators sometimes lock tens of threads per day. I can imagine why some moderators (myself included) will simply point out that there's already a thread created and it's on the first page of the forum you're currently in. All that linking does get a little tiresome if you do it many times a day :wall:

[Cruiser]

yes i realize ppl SHOULD search first *hence the button -_-* but if they dont i think it'd be better if mods would just link them...

 

 

 

So, instead of the user getting off their rump and actually doing some work to find the thread, you want it pushed off onto the mods.

 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder what drives some of you people to even bother getting online when all you do is complain that you aren't spoon fed enough already.

 

 

 

:wall:

[Laikrob]

If you rant enough on Tip.It Forums then it'll change, that's how life works.

 

(From topic poster's signature ^)

 

 

 

Trying this one out? You might end up influencing the "annoying posting style" rules, if nothing else. ;)

 

 

 

On topic:

 

 

 

If there is a sticky, I don't link to it. It's on the first page and should be easy enough to spot. If someone else have linked to the other topic in the thread, I simply refer to what that person said. If the topic isn't easy visible, I usually link to it.

[QueenValerie]

I think it would be more helpful to us mods if the person reporting the post stating it was posted before could provide us mods with the link.

 

You need to remember us mods deal with 10-15 reports daily if not more, and that is not even including reading our P.M's we deal with.

 

 

 

Maybe if you all could try to help out and provide us with links when you report them for being posted before that sure would eliminate half the problems. :)

[azntemplar_00]

No im not saying mods should not close new threads because there were threads on the same subject, but would it kill you guys to provide a link in ur closing thread?

 

 

 

yes its a BIT more work but it would

 

1) bump that old thread up discouraging others of making a new thread about the same subject because the locked thread falls into page 2~91238

 

 

 

2) just be more pleasant for the guy who started the now locked thread so he doesnt have to search all over the place and give up on his idea

 

 

 

yes i realize ppl SHOULD search first *hence the button -_-* but if they dont i think it'd be better if mods would just link them rather than saying

 

 

/closed because there is a thread about this subject already.

 

 

 

~sig

 

 

 

 

 

Usually when we just say ^that^, it's because that same topic is on the first page of that particular forum... do we really have to link to something that should be seen already? We link when necessary. And why write everything in italics? I can't tell what you want to emphasize.

[misterxman]

Like said above, the user doesn't have to deal with reports, topics from all forums, PM's and stuff, so he should have plenty of time to search for the old topic.

 

 

 

In the end, the search function is there for all users, not just for mods, so I'm not sure why only mods should search for a topic they're most likely not as interested in as the user is.

[hellbellz]

Maybe when some people report the topic, they could provide a link for the mod if it's a wrong thread.

[the_drunk_dude]

So then you make the mods search for the link?

 

as i stated, although it WOULD BE MORE WORK, it would make the person starting the thread's life easier. also ppl who start these threads are more likely than not to be new, b/c oldies will PROBABLY remember that an old thread exists

 

 

 

Personally, I always provide links (unless the thread I'm referring to is on the first page of the same forum, then I may make an exception) because that's my "proof" to myself that there is in fact another thread out there. But you do have to remember that we moderators sometimes lock tens of threads per day. I can imagine why some moderators (myself included) will simply point out that there's already a thread created and it's on the first page of the forum you're currently in. All that linking does get a little tiresome if you do it many times a day frustrated

 

yes that is something I considered, once again, it would be more work and i realize that mods just wanna post and interact w/ others just as ppl like me do, but its just kinda down putting to be going on tip.it forums for the 5~6th time and then having a thread locked that the person thought would be a good topic to talk about and with the only explanation that there is already a thread like this with no previous knowledge and no experience with the search button -_-, which may discourage them from making a new thread for yrs an yrs :boohoo:

 

 

 

So, instead of the user getting off their rump and actually doing some work to find the thread, you want it pushed off onto the mods.

 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder what drives some of you people to even bother getting online when all you do is complain that you aren't spoon fed enough already.

 

how bout u get off ur high chair and think about others? as i stated above, this would NOT benefit experienced users like me more than new people that just joined the tip.it community for the first time and may not be familiar with this forums functions, would be helpful if a mod gave them more than just a terse remark

 

 

 

If you rant enough on Tip.It Forums then it'll change, that's how life works.

 

(From topic poster's signature ^)

 

 

 

Trying this one out? You might end up influencing the "annoying posting style" rules, if nothing else. ;)

 

 

 

On topic:

 

 

 

If there is a sticky, I don't link to it. It's on the first page and should be easy enough to spot. If someone else have linked to the other topic in the thread, I simply refer to what that person said. If the topic isn't easy visible, I usually link to it.

 

seems to work for everyone else, might as well take a stab. Once again, first page things are easy to find, and people will usually find them after the lock, but if its a post thats on the 4th~5th page not many users, especially new ones, will want to spend their time looking for it becuase they're still exploring the forums

 

 

 

I think it would be more helpful to us mods if the person reporting the post stating it was posted before could provide us mods with the link.

 

You need to remember us mods deal with 10-15 reports daily if not more, and that is not even including reading our P.M's we deal with.

 

 

 

Maybe if you all could try to help out and provide us with links when you report them for being posted before that sure would eliminate half the problems.

 

i rarely report posts unless its heinous or adult, but agreed, if the community helped out (as many do) it would be a lot easier, but if they dont, i just think it would be nice for a mod to fill in that gap

 

 

 

Usually when we just say ^that^, it's because that same topic is on the first page of that particular forum... do we really have to link to something that should be seen already? We link when necessary. And why write everything in italics? I can't tell what you want to emphasize.

 

im so important everything is emphasized :wall: no seriously, idk force of habit, but yeah, as i stated above, if its first page stuff then they can find it, but there are a lot of times when its not first page and mods still do that, i just think its hard on the thread starter

 

 

 

Like said above, the user doesn't have to deal with reports, topics from all forums, PM's and stuff, so he should have plenty of time to search for the old topic.

 

 

 

In the end, the search function is there for all users, not just for mods, so I'm not sure why only mods should search for a topic they're most likely not as interested in as the user is.

 

once again this is more beneficial to new ppl who are most likely to start new threads that they do not has been said before, whether in a another page or another section. I never said only mods should do this as many times other members will help out by linking them

[Cruiser]

So, instead of the user getting off their rump and actually doing some work to find the thread, you want it pushed off onto the mods.

 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder what drives some of you people to even bother getting online when all you do is complain that you aren't spoon fed enough already.

 

how bout u get off ur high chair and think about others? as i stated above, this would NOT benefit experienced users like me more than new people that just joined the tip.it community for the first time and may not be familiar with this forums functions, would be helpful if a mod gave them more than just a terse remark

 

 

 

The remark is "high horse" and I'm most definitely not on either one.

 

 

 

The reply was aimed at everyone, not just you. New users need to learn how to use the forum functions like anyone else and pasting them a URL to a thread they could look for themselves doesn't teach them that. All it does is say "Hey, you don't need to do anything! I'll do it all for you!".

 

 

 

Writing threads in all italics is annoying as hell too. It's meant for emphasis, not entire paragraphs. :?

[Errdoth]

You know, if Mods and others can find a topic they vaguely remeber, and run a search for it, I don't think it would be that hard for you to either. By the way, I have never really seen a thread that has "Well, I remember something like this from a while ago, but I'm to lazy to search for it". Most often they (Mod or regular forumer) will provide a link, otherwise, just run a search yourself, do you expect everyone to do everything for you?

 

 

 

GAH! Can we please rid ourselves of the italics?

[the_drunk_dude]

So, instead of the user getting off their rump and actually doing some work to find the thread, you want it pushed off onto the mods.

 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder what drives some of you people to even bother getting online when all you do is complain that you aren't spoon fed enough already.

 

how bout u get off ur high chair and think about others? as i stated above, this would NOT benefit experienced users like me more than new people that just joined the tip.it community for the first time and may not be familiar with this forums functions, would be helpful if a mod gave them more than just a terse remark

 

 

 

The remark is "high horse" and I'm most definitely not on either one.

 

 

 

The reply was aimed at everyone, not just you. New users need to learn how to use the forum functions like anyone else and pasting them a URL to a thread they could look for themselves doesn't teach them that. All it does is say "Hey, you don't need to do anything! I'll do it all for you!".

 

 

 

Writing threads in all italics is annoying as hell too. It's meant for emphasis, not entire paragraphs. :?

 

hm.... high horse makes more sense :-k lol

 

 

 

italics, its a force of habit, do it w/o knowing, im programmed to press alt+a and then i.... its a flaw that started on another forum

 

 

 

neways, yes they should learn to use the search function, but doing it for them will not deter them from learning how to use search but rather make their foruming experience more enjoyable. I dont see why a mod cant both link him and write a gentle reminder to use search (e.g. (url=link) pls use search button next time, this topic has already been posted (/url))

[Laikrob]

also ppl who start these threads are more likely than not to be new, b/c oldies will PROBABLY remember that an old thread exists

 

 

 

(...)

 

 

 

yes that is something I considered, once again, it would be more work and i realize that mods just wanna post and interact w/ others just as ppl like me do, but its just kinda down putting to be going on tip.it forums for the 5~6th time and then having a thread locked that the person thought would be a good topic to talk about and with the only explanation that there is already a thread like this with no previous knowledge and no experience with the search button -_-, which may discourage them from making a new thread for yrs an yrs :boohoo:

 

 

 

 

New users don't usually repeat their mistakes 5-6 times. Really, they don't. And after having posted 5-6 new topics, could they even count as new users?

 

 

 

 

 

On another note, I think you will be glad to hear that section 1.2 - Irritating Posting Styles/Spamming of the Tip.It Forum Rules now are updated:

 

 

 

In order to maintain an environment that promotes ease in the exchange of information, spamming is prohibited. Spamming includes posting entire messages using excessive formatting (all caps, italics, bold, etc.) (...)

 

Rules can be found here: http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=480329

 

They are here to make your foruming experience more enjoyable. :)

[Engorgedpit]

Thread locking is out of control on the Tip.It forums. Take the avatar size thread... how does tripsis know that I or someone else do not have something to add?

 

 

 

Often threads are locked based on the misinterpretation of the moderator. No one's reading comprehension is perfect, for this reason all moderation actions should be subject to peer and administrative review.

 

 

 

Other threads are locked when they should be deleted altogether. I suspect that moderators are given insufficient permissions in general, and thus overuse the ones they do have.

 

 

 

This is a serious problem for the Tip.It forums. It is unlike any other online gaming forum I have seen in over 15 years of online gaming. (Including 3 years of running a major forum.) Free and productive communication is being stifled. I think the moderators take themselves too seriously and do not let enough things go.

 

 

 

In general moderators are present on a forum to temporarily handle gross violations of the rules in the absence of an administrative presence. e.g. personal attacks in flamewars, posting of dirty pictures or other distasteful material, etc. They should not be AR control freaks about who posts what where and how long they are allowed to discuss it. That is just weird.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to be mean and flame the moderators here, but there is a serious problem on the Tip.It forums. I think that the moderators need a better set of guidelines and policies to operate under, and adhere more to the "invisible hand" style of moderation. Like in policing, 99% of people are well behaved and will follow reasonable rules and guidelines, only a very small proportion of the overall population needs correction.

 

 

 

Please, please, please lighten up on the lock finger people... its pretty ridiculous, really.

 

 

 

EDIT: your first clue that something is wrong is the paranoia and fear in the users, every second post is qualified with an apology of some kind and a "lock this if you don't like where it is , what it says, or what color socks I'm wearing"...

[mastermule52]

I've been on a lot of message boards in my day.

 

 

 

The mods here do a rather swell job of controlling the spam and useless threads, given the size of the board, and I would have to agree this is a rather minor issue.

 

 

 

I see where you're coming from about the whole "new users" thing, but being new to TIF is one thing, being new to forums in general is another. Almost all forums (especially of this size) have the problem of people who don't search before they post. A little reminder that "hey - we actually look for that on these boards" tells the user "oh, I guess I really do have to search before I post."

 

 

 

Given the (estimated) average age of a lot of the users here, there's a chance it's their first message board, but there's no need to beat around the bush. If WE as the community do to searching for them and post a link, they learn "oh, I don't need to search - if it already exists, they'll link me." If you don't give them a link, they learn to search for themselves, preventing future issues.

 

 

 

Not that I've been there, done that, got the tee-shirt ;-)

[pokemama]

Thread locking is out of control on the Tip.It forums. Take the avatar size thread... how does tripsis know that I or someone else do not have something to add?

 

...

 

This is a serious problem for the Tip.It forums.

 

...

 

I'm not trying to be mean and flame the moderators here, but there is a serious problem on the Tip.It forums.

 

...

 

Please, please, please lighten up on the lock finger people... its pretty ridiculous, really.

 

Since you joined on the 24 of May 2007 and thus have been with Tip.It about a week, I can see that you've certainly had the time to learn all about how Tip.It forums work, what our moderators do, what our users are like and who our target audience is. Imagine the temerity of people who've been with this forum for years, thinking they might know better than you! :roll:

 

 

 

You would immediately know, of course, about the *dozens* of threads that are posted each month when someone who's just signed up asks for the sig or avatar limits to be changed, even though they were just extended for everyone a few months ago.

 

 

 

And it's certainly important to ignore the most basic rules of netiquette (you are supposedly old enough to know them, as they date from the days of USENET), which state that when one is new to a group, one should lurk and read and become familiar with board rules and content and conventions before assuming that everyone will want to hear your pearls of wisdom.

[Errdoth]

Thread locking is out of control on the Tip.It forums. Take the avatar size thread... how does tripsis know that I or someone else do not have something to add?

 

 

I think when you say "the avatar size thread" you are referring to the most recent one, in which case, the user specifically asked how he could get his avatar to fit, he wasn't really complaining about the rules; he just didn't see that his image was slightly over 8kb. This was a personal problem, and the problem was solved, so there is no need to keep the thread open for a discussion that is going nowhere. Locked topics like that are pruned. If it was an open debate, that had reason to continue after the problem was solved, it probably wouldn't have been locked. If you really had something important to add, you could always PM the mod who locked it, and they might reopen it for you.

[Engorgedpit]

I think when you say "the avatar size thread" you are referring to the most recent one, in which case, the user specifically asked how he could get his avatar to fit, he wasn't really complaining about the rules; he just didn't see that his image was slightly over 8kb. This was a personal problem, and the problem was solved, so there is no need to keep the thread open for a discussion that is going nowhere. Locked topics like that are pruned. If it was an open debate, that had reason to continue after the problem was solved, it probably wouldn't have been locked. If you really had something important to add, you could always PM the mod who locked it, and they might reopen it for you.

 

 

 

I was denied the opportunity to state that the avatar in question could have been optimised to <8KB with Adobe ImageReady in one click, virtually unaffected. Another user posted that it took some fussing about in another program. I guess that information I had to offer was not useful even though it was not yet known? PM'ing a moderator to unlock threads so that normal discourse can continue should not be necessary.

[Engorgedpit]

 

Since you joined on the 24 of May 2007 and thus have been with Tip.It about a week, I can see that you've certainly had the time to learn all about how Tip.It forums work, what our moderators do, what our users are like and who our target audience is. Imagine the temerity of people who've been with this forum for years, thinking they might know better than you! :roll:

 

 

 

You would immediately know, of course, about the *dozens* of threads that are posted each month when someone who's just signed up asks for the sig or avatar limits to be changed, even though they were just extended for everyone a few months ago.

 

 

 

And it's certainly important to ignore the most basic rules of netiquette (you are supposedly old enough to know them, as they date from the days of USENET), which state that when one is new to a group, one should lurk and read and become familiar with board rules and content and conventions before assuming that everyone will want to hear your pearls of wisdom.

 

 

 

It only took about 20 minutes to see that there is a problem. I'm sure I will feel the same way in a years time if nothing changes. Why should I hold back my constructive criticism?

 

 

 

Locking threads like you do here is partly what results in the many duplicates, your policy of thread locking is counterproductive to your actual goal, it is plain to see. Deny it all you like, that is the fact of the matter, the length of my membership here is totally irrelevant.

 

 

 

Don't like my opinion? Fine, ignore it and spare me the straw man arguments.

[Dragontotem]

a bit off-topic but..

 

I dont understand why people are dissing mods nowadays.

 

All kind of messages i see are "omg u sucky mods why you close my thread!!!" and boof, 2 topics below, topic like that again.

 

 

 

Then there are people complaining about how mods dotn do their jobs as a moderator and move/close reported topics. Duh, like mods can be everywhere everytime for any reason.

 

 

 

People need to understand that Mods are human.

 

 

 

 

 

Just my thoughts :roll:

[mastermule52]

To the off topic post above this (assuming no one else posts in the next few minutes) :

 

 

 

It is not moderator specific, nor is it "now-a-days." People have been questioning the decisions and methods of those above them for thousands of years. And since the earliest days of message boards, which I probably was exposed to too early (thanks big bro!) there have been disagreements with the mods and users over how the board should be run.

 

 

 

Which brings me to the point. Engorgedpit, who (him?)self admits having a vast amount of experience on message boards (more than I by a couple of years, but comparable) should know that this is how boards operate.

 

 

 

I admit you do not seem to be the average hell-raising punk. You use proper grammar (from what I recall) and come off as a more mature person. I can tell you I felt very much the same thing you are feeling now (see this post.)

 

 

 

But, and this is especially true in THIS section, we have to keep in mind the humanity of the crew and their limited (and as far as I know, unpaid, but I could be wrong on that...) resources, of which time is one of the most important.

 

 

 

Using that avatar post as an example. The user posting that said something along the lines of "even 10k would be helpful" - and indeed it would. But with almost 150k users, at 2k EXTRA per avatar, that's up to 300Mb more server space... for avatars... Now of course, not everyone has an avatar, but when you have to pay for server space, even a fraction of that can begin to add up. If you DID have something worthwhile to add, such as a possible solution that works for both users and administrators, you would be better off putting it on a new thread where the vibe wouldn't be tainted by a lesser-quality idea. And as long as it was unique and reasonable, I doubt it would be locked (unless it was found to not be plausible, but even then it wouldn't be locked probably.) From what I can tell the other post was locked because the proverbial "dead horse" was being beaten.

 

 

 

This post was a little more long winded than I intended.

 

 

 

And for the record, I went about 4 months before I started posting on the forums here. ;-)

[Phil]

I was denied the opportunity to state that the avatar in question could have been optimised to <8KB with Adobe ImageReady in one click, virtually unaffected. Another user posted that it took some fussing about in another program. I guess that information I had to offer was not useful even though it was not yet known? PM'ing a moderator to unlock threads so that normal discourse can continue should not be necessary.

 

I guess you just forgot about the pm feature? The user in question knew he could get it optimised to under 8kb and he knew where he could get help for it.

 

 

 

I've been visiting the tipit forums for well over 6 years now and can say that they are running pretty damn well at the moment (compared to the past) considering the audience that visits the forums.

 

 

 

The issue with locking reposted topics and/or bumped posts isn't the easiest rule to moderate, whatever we do someone isn't going to be happy.

[tripsis]

I locked that avatar thread for a few reasons. For starters, as Errdoth said, it was more of a one-time issue that the author needed to resolve. Once it was resolved, there was no reason to keep it open. A few weeks back we had a very large, popular thread about increasing avatar/signature sizes. After a certain point, Albosky raised the avatar limitations then locked the thread. Since we just had a big discussion about that and came to an agreement, it was locked.

 

 

 

Furthermore, it sounded like the person who created that thread didn't have experience with image-editing programs such as PhotoShop. So I doubt telling him that it could easily be done in PhotoShop would even help much. And Errdoth and Kaphias did mention that he could have his avatar/signatures resized by another forum member in a sticky in The Gallery forum. That being said, there was nothing left to discuss. His problem was resolved and I doubt that Albosky is up to enlarging avatar/signature sizes yet again when he just did so a few weeks back.

[Engorgedpit]

Here is a perfect example of the rampant AR here:

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=661026

 

 

 

There is no good reason that thread should have been locked. None. I am sorry, but that is a perfectly reasonable discussion to have in a general forum. Particularly because it is obvious that Jagex has blocked names that are not actually in use by anyone.

 

 

 

Spam? You have not seen spam. Forum spam is when someone writes a script that makes thousands of posts through random proxies on multiple accounts consisting of links to goatse or similarly disgusting images. The moderation here could easily be overwhelmed by such a script to the point where the board would have to be closed for a time. (Note this is not a threat, just an illustration of what forum spam actually is).

 

 

 

But, and this is especially true in THIS section, we have to keep in mind the humanity of the crew and their limited (and as far as I know, unpaid, but I could be wrong on that...) resources, of which time is one of the most important.

 

 

 

I fully recognise that, and if you had read my posts more carefully you would see that I have acknowledged that fact and for exactly that reason suggested a peer and administrative review process for all moderation actions. (Can you see the irony in the need for me to reiterate this?)

 

 

 

Anyway, its not like its the end of the world, or that this really matters in the grand scheme of things. I'll live with it either way, it just bears saying and repeating until the problem is acknowledged.

 

 

 

As I have stated elsewhere, the main site content of skill guides, quest guides, the item database etc. and overall quality of design and presentation more than makes up for the the way the forums are run. The site would still be worthwhile to me if there were no forums here at all. If it bothers me that much I will simply skip the forums and continue to use the rest of the site as the valuable Runescape resource and reference that it is.