morals...........

[Kashi]

(Posting before reading anything on the thread ...)

 

 

 

Morals? What are those, are they like swedish fish? They sound tasty.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: (After reading the whole thread ... side note my eyes burn.)

 

 

 

You, all of you, who are judging this person for judging others, are you not just as bad?

 

If one person wishes to condemn other people for their crimes, and others wish to

 

live and let live, they would be better to each follow their own philosophy.

 

 

 

 

 

If my code of ethics states that is is my duty in life to spread misery and dischord amongst the living,

 

before I can join the dead, then is it wrong for me to crush the spirits and ruin the lives of as many people as I can?

 

Is it wrong for me to do violence to all the pathetic examples of--what are we talking about?

 

 

 

Yes, back to the topic, I know a girl like you whose parents are (a certain religion), and they

 

wont let her date my friend because he is not a member of their religion. So they've been

 

dating secretly for months now. The girl still believes in her religion, but she also thinks it's

 

ridiculous to push aside everyone who does not share her faith.

 

 

 

I gather from the majority of the religious discussions on Off Topic that most of the frequent

 

posters are atheists. This is good, as religion tends to breed judgmental and self-righteous

 

people. However, let us not pretend that every person who has faith in their religion is a

 

high and mighty, burn the wicked, free booze for the believers, knock on your door during

 

dinner-time fanatic. It is possible to believe and be reasonable at the same time. Understandably,

 

these people will become angry if you start to mock their religion, but some of the nicest,

 

most educated people I know are firm believers in whatever religion they choose.

 

 

 

We shouldn't mock the poster of this thread, but rather pity her. Her religion has closed

 

her mind to anything beyond what she has been taught. Perhaps, if we were to be kinder

 

and less defensive, we could cause her to see the light (not of God, but of logic.)

 

 

 

I'm in a zen sort of mood right now. Ya' know?

[Bubsa]

(Posting before reading anything on the thread ...)

 

You really should, it's a great laugh.

[knives669]

I think it's fine to do sex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Call me up sometime.

[____]

Call me up sometime.

pm number please ;)

 

 

 

hahaha.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

morality is a pain. best to just go with your guy instinct.

[insane]

I think it's fine to do sex.

 

 

 

Just to give this topic a topic; I'll try and construct a non-religious argument promoting chastity before marriage;

 

 

 

If marriage is an eventual goal in life, what greater gift do you have to give your spouse than your virginity? To say, "I've waited my entire life for someone like you, and now I can give you my all.". Throwing your intimacy around like a baseball is telling your spouse that you don't give a damn about intimacy in your marriage - it's like saying "I want sex to be as meaningless between us as possible. Everytime we sleep together we'll be reminded of all the times we were with other people and how this isn't something special between us".

 

 

 

And what if you break up? Having sex before marriage is luring your S.O into a false sense of security - it's taking everything from them without any sense of committment; when your relationship ends, they are left having given you intimacy they can never get back - you have known their most intimate parts, and then thrown them aside like they are worthless. Sex before marriage is the exact opposite of protecting their heart - it's leaving it bare for the crows to pick at.

 

 

 

Hmm, that was more like a rant and now I am tired. Goodnight.

[underu2000]

Oh, yes. The over-all point of me responding declined with every post I've read to get here. Man, I feel redundant.

 

 

 

Anyway, lets get something straight here. The first impression from reading the author's post was a cataract. Second impression was that all her ideas are NOT blindly based on religion, and im not sure where that common sentiment came from. Its what she thinks, and she wanted to throw it into the open. For heaven's sake, all she said was "wages of sin was death", and the entire thread descended into a "oh no! im going to hell" wise-crack comment list. Give her a break, get some better jokes, or something.

 

 

 

On the issue of pre-marital sex, i think the dude before me said my opinions better than i could have myself...

 

 

 

And to add, NOBODY said anything about banning sex, just the pre-marital kind. If one can't control their juvenile impulses, they give marriage a bad name. And one wonders why America has a 50% divorce rate.

 

 

 

On the issue of drugs, i dont do it, thats all u need to know.... :-w. And there doesnt seem to be any conflict on that matter.

 

 

 

And what is wrong with coming to terms with religion and your view on life? Honestly, some folks act like they live in the spanish inquisition. Remember that religion (and its rules) are laws that govern social behavior, and are meant to preserve order in the society. Not doing drugs and rape and all that, case in point.

 

 

 

And of course, it is ENTIRELY a opinion-based matter. If you arent ready to accept that other people think differently, you better start. Or just dont care at all, that works too.

 

 

 

PS: The world DOESNT determine morals, you determine them yourself. Ever watch the Matrix? Brings an important question to fore: are you crazy, or just the rest of the world? :-k

[knives669]

I think it's fine to do sex.

 

 

 

Just to give this topic a topic; I'll try and construct a non-religious argument promoting chastity before marriage;

 

 

 

If marriage is an eventual goal in life, what greater gift do you have to give your spouse than your virginity? To say, "I've waited my entire life for someone like you, and now I can give you my all.". Throwing your intimacy around like a baseball is telling your spouse that you don't give a damn about intimacy in your marriage - it's like saying "I want sex to be as meaningless between us as possible. Everytime we sleep together we'll be reminded of all the times we were with other people and how this isn't something special between us".

 

 

 

And what if you break up? Having sex before marriage is luring your S.O into a false sense of security - it's taking everything from them without any sense of committment; when your relationship ends, they are left having given you intimacy they can never get back - you have known their most intimate parts, and then thrown them aside like they are worthless. Sex before marriage is the exact opposite of protecting their heart - it's leaving it bare for the crows to pick at.

 

 

 

Hmm, that was more like a rant and now I am tired. Goodnight.

 

 

 

I completely agree with you. I was just kidding. ^_^

[Kashi]

Well for some people, it holds no deeper meaning. :

 

 

 

Just physical pleasure.

[Icingdeath]

Without premarital sex there'd be like...7 people in the world right now.

 

Basically.

[Kashi]

Without premarital sex there'd be like...7 people in the world right now.

 

Basically.

 

 

 

*Cough*

 

 

 

Care to elaborate on that?

[transcript80]

All sin has the same out come. The wages of sin is death.

 

 

 

No. Death is the logical consequence of life.

 

 

 

[

But through forgiveness we can have eternal life

 

 

 

I find this utter bull droppings.

 

 

 

Anyway. Wait till your hormones begin racing through your body. The the virginity story all of a sudden becomes A LOT harder (no pun intended). If you should marry before having sex, well that only leads to more divorces.

 

 

 

And NOT all sins are equal. There might even be a bible/koran/religous book reference of that, but I don't know any of them by heart.

 

 

 

You need to lossen up a bit. If you want. I won't judge you for it if you don't. But it's just a LOT easier!

[insane]

I think it's fine to do sex.

 

 

 

Just to give this topic a topic; I'll try and construct a non-religious argument promoting chastity before marriage;

 

 

 

If marriage is an eventual goal in life, what greater gift do you have to give your spouse than your virginity? To say, "I've waited my entire life for someone like you, and now I can give you my all.". Throwing your intimacy around like a baseball is telling your spouse that you don't give a damn about intimacy in your marriage - it's like saying "I want sex to be as meaningless between us as possible. Everytime we sleep together we'll be reminded of all the times we were with other people and how this isn't something special between us".

 

 

 

And what if you break up? Having sex before marriage is luring your S.O into a false sense of security - it's taking everything from them without any sense of committment; when your relationship ends, they are left having given you intimacy they can never get back - you have known their most intimate parts, and then thrown them aside like they are worthless. Sex before marriage is the exact opposite of protecting their heart - it's leaving it bare for the crows to pick at.

 

 

 

Hmm, that was more like a rant and now I am tired. Goodnight.

 

 

 

I completely agree with you. I was just kidding. ^_^

 

 

 

Yeah, like I said... I was tired :P

[Aresgodowar]

My head hurts now that I've actually read...that. :uhh:

Your not alone. :uhh:

 

:wall:

[Aresgodowar]

Wait a second, so your saying that me having sex with my girlfriend before marriage is the same as me raping and murdering said girlfriend?

 

 

 

Hahahahhaha....yeah, good one :lol:

 

 

 

err...well if ur girlfriend is into s&m...

[Zonorhc]

I know a much better gift to your spouse than your virginity: knowing how to do it well.

 

 

 

Seriously, right now I'd rather sleep with someone who knows what they're about rather than someone who's been "waiting all their life for this moment". Makes for a better experience.

 

 

 

If anything, premarital sex has strengthened my current relationship with my girlfriend. To say that it's wrong because it violates the sanctity of marriage stinks of conservative prudishness. You're not "taking intimacy" from them like it's a strictly one-way act. The pleasure is mutual.

 

 

 

Unless, of course, you're not doing it right.

[Nadril]

I know a much better gift to your spouse than your virginity: knowing how to do it well.

 

 

 

Seriously, right now I'd rather sleep with someone who knows what they're about rather than someone who's been "waiting all their life for this moment". Makes for a better experience.

 

 

 

If anything, premarital sex has strengthened my current relationship with my girlfriend. To say that it's wrong because it violates the sanctity of marriage stinks of conservative prudishness. You're not "taking intimacy" from them like it's a strictly one-way act. The pleasure is mutual.

 

 

 

Unless, of course, you're not doing it right.

 

 

 

Agreed. I don't see how it has to be your 'first' to be special.

[IGoddessI]

Morals?

 

 

 

If you want morals, read Zen stories.

 

 

 

Tell me how you go.

 

 

 

Offtopic: I love Zonorhc's posts, seems we have similar views in pretty much everything so far.

[insane]

I know a much better gift to your spouse than your virginity: knowing how to do it well.

 

 

 

Seriously, right now I'd rather sleep with someone who knows what they're about rather than someone who's been "waiting all their life for this moment". Makes for a better experience.

 

 

 

Your "argument" is wrong for a few reasons.

 

 

 

1) It assumes that you can't learn to "do it well' with your spouse.

 

2) It implies that you will be basing who you marry on how well they perform in bed. Not only is that shallow, it leaves little to be desired when you're aged and discover that you're impotent.

 

3) Saying it "makes for a better experience" implies that you have experienced the other side, which you obviously haven't.

 

 

 

If anything, premarital sex has strengthened my current relationship with my girlfriend.

 

 

 

That is incredible vague and lacking in substance. Blanket statements only cover gaping holes in arguments.

 

 

 

To say that it's wrong because it violates the sanctity of marriage stinks of conservative prudishness.

 

 

 

You're right. In fact, I'm arguing for conservative prudishness. So all you're saying is that my argument is consistent with my beliefs. And you added a bunch of emotionally loaded (aka. logically empty) terminology to make me look bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're not "taking intimacy" from them like it's a strictly one-way act. The pleasure is mutual.

 

 

 

It is mutual at the present time. I'm not sure how many women are thankful they slept with their boyfriends after their boyfriends turn around and sleep with someone else or ditch them for someone that "performs better". And that's my entire point - you don't know, if you aren't married, if you are in a long-term relationship. You're taking a gamble. You're looking at sex from a "live for the present" mindset.

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. I don't see how it has to be your 'first' to be special.

 

 

 

Oh really. So the more you do something, the more special and unique it gets? Give me a break. The more people you have sex with, the less meaningful it will get with each person. That's so obvious I don't even have to explain it to you. Ever heard of the term "the novelty just wore off"? Maybe with your 10th partner you'll still consider it "special", but it definitely won't be as special as if they were your 1st.

[IGoddessI]

No his argument is clear and concise; it is you who has made the assumption and interpreted what he has to say in to your own words.

 

 

 

At least his had valid points; I skimmed through yours and gave up.

 

 

 

I love those with Conservative beliefs, I really do. They come to my house and expect me to listen to their way of life and I do, quite attentively! I then invite them inside and introduce them to mine and they won't have a bar of it.

 

 

 

How rude, I listened to their story but they don't want to hear mine. To think, I invited someone with different views to myself into my house, respected them, listened to their story, shared my resources with them (coffee) and then won't do the same for me?

 

 

 

Where is the love and respect in that particular ideology that you all so elegantly preach?

[Nadril]

Oh really. So the more you do something, the more special and unique it gets? Give me a break. The more people you have sex with, the less meaningful it will get with each person. That's so obvious I don't even have to explain it to you. Ever heard of the term "the novelty just wore off"? Maybe with your 10th partner you'll still consider it "special", but it definitely won't be as special as if they were your 1st.

 

 

 

Why can't it just be special because you are celerabating a happy time of your life? I don't see how the actual act has to be the big thing, not the marriage?

[insane]

Oh really. So the more you do something, the more special and unique it gets? Give me a break. The more people you have sex with, the less meaningful it will get with each person. That's so obvious I don't even have to explain it to you. Ever heard of the term "the novelty just wore off"? Maybe with your 10th partner you'll still consider it "special", but it definitely won't be as special as if they were your 1st.

 

 

 

Why can't it just be special because you are celerabating a happy time of your life? I don't see how the actual act has to be the big thing, not the marriage?

 

 

 

Well yeah, that's what I believe, but last time I checked this conversation was about premarital sex and the effect it has on postmarital sex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No his argument is clear and concise; it is you who has made the assumption and interpreted what he has to say in to your own words.

 

 

 

At least his had valid points; I skimmed through yours and gave up.

 

 

 

Why not get specific? Vague statements like "you're wrong, he's right" aren't going to get you anywhere. I quoted specific parts of his post and attempted to refute them. You just say "I gave up reading your argument" and you expect me to accept that?

 

 

 

 

 

How rude, I listened to their story but they don't want to hear mine. To think, I invited someone with different views to myself into my house, respected them, listened to their story, shared my resources with them (coffee) and then won't do the same for me?

 

 

 

Where is the love and respect in that particular ideology that you all so elegantly preach?

 

 

 

I don't understand how zonor and i having an argument pegs me as intolerant and zonorhc as someone who listens intently? Perhaps you are the one with bias.

[Nadril]

Well yeah, that's what I believe, but last time I checked this conversation was about premarital sex and the effect it has on postmarital sex.

 

 

 

 

What I meant is it shouldn't mater if it is your first time or not, you should be focusing on the fact that you got married -- not that you're about to have sex for the first time.

[insane]

Well yeah, that's what I believe, but last time I checked this conversation was about premarital sex and the effect it has on postmarital sex.

 

 

 

 

What I meant is it shouldn't mater if it is your first time or not, you should be focusing on the fact that you got married -- not that you're about to have sex for the first time.

 

 

 

So your argument changed from "it can still be special" to "it doesn't matter"? Seems like a cop-out.

[Nadril]

Well yeah, that's what I believe, but last time I checked this conversation was about premarital sex and the effect it has on postmarital sex.

 

 

 

 

What I meant is it shouldn't mater if it is your first time or not, you should be focusing on the fact that you got married -- not that you're about to have sex for the first time.

 

 

 

So your argument changed from "it can still be special" to "it doesn't matter"? Seems like a cop-out.

 

 

 

What I was trying to say is it can be special. I think its a special way to celerabate a marriage, regardless of if you have done it before or not.

 

 

 

 

 

Either way to be honest I don't think we're going to change each others views here. However I don't think its shallow to have sex before you're married.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry about the jumbled ideas, raiding right now so I'm typing this while we go over the strat

[insane]

Well yeah, that's what I believe, but last time I checked this conversation was about premarital sex and the effect it has on postmarital sex.

 

 

 

 

What I meant is it shouldn't mater if it is your first time or not, you should be focusing on the fact that you got married -- not that you're about to have sex for the first time.

 

 

 

So your argument changed from "it can still be special" to "it doesn't matter"? Seems like a cop-out.

 

 

 

What I was trying to say is it can be special. I think its a special way to celerabate a marriage, regardless of if you have done it before or not.

 

 

 

 

 

Either way to be honest I don't think we're going to change each others views here. However I don't think its shallow to have sex before you're married.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry about the jumbled ideas, raiding right now so I'm typing this while we go over the strat

 

 

 

I agree that we are not going to change each other's views. That's not my goal. I saw a bunch of people blasting someone for staying a virgin before marriage which I think is ridiculous on a number of levels.

 

 

 

I just wanted to present a rational view for why people support chastity prior to marriage so that people don't think everybody who believes in chastity before marriage is a closed minded fundamentalist who has never seen the real world and questioned the way things are.