define "hardcore" (open discussion on a misused term)

[Panic_Pants]

Oh yes, I went there. A touchy subject as kids debate every day how hardcore they are. So I ask you, tip.it forums, what defines hardcore? What defines the 'hardcore music' scene? Is it the same as it was in the past?

 

 

 

I'll post my own views once more posts happen, just so you don't know what my take is and flame me (which you might or might not)

[zaquierming]

Of course hardcore isn't the same as it used to be. That'd be pretty damn boring if a genre didn't change..

[Panic_Pants]

but what does it mean to you, and how has it changed in your eyes? One sentence answers are a little dull in my opinion.

[zaquierming]

I planned on elaborating a little later. Well, how has it changed. I think it has just evolved, as does every genre. It stemmed off of the punk genre, and grew from there to what it is now. Nothing makes you "hardcore", it's just a label.

[Panic_Pants]

there we go, some input. It is a label, yes, but certain actions can be hardcore, just not in the musical sense (I'm talking cracking walnuts with your head XD.) In truth I don't know much about the musical genre today, only that I like one band than can KIND OF fit in that category, HORSE the Band. Nowadays I think it's too metal-influenced, nothing like back in the day (If I say 'Ian Mackaye" what would you say?) I'm old school in that respect, the big three being my favorite, Bad Brains, Minor Threat, and Black Flag. Nowadays I think it's too much of a scene to be fun; I'd much rather be esotericly awesome then have to go to shows to get my label.

[zaquierming]

Minor Threat, thata boy. Yeah, that's how you get the label. Nowadays a hardcore kid is the kid whaling his arms around in the pit.

[Panic_Pants]

well zaquier, I can rest easy now that I know that you know (ugh) what the roots are. People have got to know their roots before they go around saying that they belong to an ideal.

 

 

 

hey check this out, it's Mackaye dissing emo kids back in the 80s, thought you might be interested

 

 

 

anyways, I'm off topic. Come on folks, I know you have an opinion!

[How2PK]

220 BPM and a very hard bass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

 

 

 

Or do you mean hardcore as in Chain of Strength?

[Poopingman]

I thought hardcore was that awful music that borders on metal?

[Panic_Pants]

more one-sentence replies... come on, I know you people have more opinions than THAT.

[Ragen]

I always understood that hardcore was an offspring of punk. Hardcore (to my knowledge which is pretty poor on the subject) uses fast double bass, screamed vocals and heavy guitar riffs with absolutally no concept of melody. The few bits I've been exposed to are simular to death metal in the style of singing and all out loudness but lacked death metals rif[bleep]e, prefering a constant barrage of the same note.

 

 

 

I disregarded the genre as mindless wanna be metal.

 

 

 

I know a bit more about metalcore but I don't really know where the 'core' bit comes into it. All the metalcore I listen to sounds very thrashlike (Trivium, Lamb of God, Killswitch).

[How2PK]

more one-sentence replies... come on, I know you people have more opinions than THAT.

 

 

 

If it's not about the dance music Hardcore I'm afraid I don't know much about it, sorry. Would be a bit pointless talking about things you don't know anything of. Don't you agree.

[Futurama]

Daan's from Holland, and over there there's only one type of hardcore, which is the gabba/hardstyle/speedcore type stuff.

 

 

 

Hardcore's actually a prefix if anything. Hardcore punk, hardcore dance, and more recently for me, hardcore breaks. It's always an offshoot of another genre because its always intended to be a harder version of the genre it's offshooting. When a scene gets big enough, it adopts the name hardcore. Hardcore, to me, was what I called Happy Hardcore back from about 2000 onwards, because thats what I listened to.

 

 

 

Now i'm open minded enough not to call anything just "hardcore." Sadly most of the scenesters here use the hardcore punk offshoot, bleh...

[Panic_Pants]

I always understood that hardcore was an offspring of punk. Hardcore (to my knowledge which is pretty poor on the subject) uses fast double bass, screamed vocals and heavy guitar riffs with absolutally no concept of melody. The few bits I've been exposed to are simular to death metal in the style of singing and all out loudness but lacked death metals rif[bleep]e, prefering a constant barrage of the same note.

 

 

 

I disregarded the genre as mindless wanna be metal.

 

 

 

I know a bit more about metalcore but I don't really know where the 'core' bit comes into it. All the metalcore I listen to sounds very thrashlike (Trivium, Lamb of God, Killswitch).

 

 

 

You more or less described what I see being referred to hardcore nowadays, but in my opinion, it doesn't differ that much from metalcore (With all due respect, I can't tell the difference.) Hardcore in days past was purely punk-influenced, usually with just fast drum beats utilizing little or do double bass. It's often dissonant, yes, but no guttural screaming, or whiny screaming, just more along the lines of yelling (I'm thinking henry rollins.)

 

 

 

more one-sentence replies... come on, I know you people have more opinions than THAT.

 

 

 

If it's not about the dance music Hardcore I'm afraid I don't know much about it, sorry. Would be a bit pointless talking about things you don't know anything of. Don't you agree.

 

 

 

In truth I totally forgot about the EDM variant. That's very different from the more traditional Hardcore music, but nonetheless is a genre. If that's what you think hardcore is, then describe it as while different from the original preconception, it's a connotation nonetheless.

[Retefael]

Recently I've noticed, especially on iTunes, that rock music has become more edgy; hard rock if you will. As for "hardcore" it could be anything that a normal, sane, squeamish person would never, ever try. As for music, something loud and "hard".

[pfilc23]

finally time I chime in here :)

 

 

 

To me, "hardcore" by itself is hardcore punk. Everything else I refer ro as metalcore, skacore, etc. (and that "hardcore" dance crap is, imo just dance music with a wannabe name). Many of the old-school HC bands (like BB, Minor Threat, Fugazi, etc.) I think of as just punk really. I guess they've just kinda lost their edge a bit over the years or maybe it's just cuz I've heard it all so many times. Doesn't come across as so "hardcore" anymore. Tho, as I think about it, maybe I've just always liked more bands that are HC bands, but I just always tended to think of them as punk.

 

 

 

Anyway, many newer bands have kinda re-defined what I think of as hardcore. I'll admit that many of them have the "roaring" type of vocals, but I don't necessarily let that define it for me. Current HC bands I listen to a lot: Comeback Kid, Bigwig, Rise Against, Strike Anywhere, Stretch Arm strong, Thought Riot, Set your Goals, No Trigger, Sinking Ships, Shook Ones.

[Panic_Pants]

finally time I chime in here :)

 

 

 

To me, "hardcore" by itself is hardcore punk. Everything else I refer ro as metalcore, skacore, etc. (and that "hardcore" dance crap is, imo just dance music with a wannabe name). Many of the old-school HC bands (like BB, Minor Threat, Fugazi, etc.) I think of as just punk really. I guess they've just kinda lost their edge a bit over the years or maybe it's just cuz I've heard it all so many times. Doesn't come across as so "hardcore" anymore. Tho, as I think about it, maybe I've just always liked more bands that are HC bands, but I just always tended to think of them as punk.

 

 

 

Anyway, many newer bands have kinda re-defined what I think of as hardcore. I'll admit that many of them have the "roaring" type of vocals, but I don't necessarily let that define it for me. Current HC bands I listen to a lot: Comeback Kid, Bigwig, Rise Against, Strike Anywhere, Stretch Arm strong, Thought Riot, Set your Goals, No Trigger, Sinking Ships, Shook Ones.

 

 

 

I don't think you can call fugazi that much of a 'founding' hardcore band. Sure, mackaye was present, but he had another band before that, as well as minor threat. Also, check out black flag if you haven't already, their one of the founding bands.

[l33thunt3r]

"dead to fall"

 

 

 

hardcore/post-hardcore/metalcore?

[pfilc23]

finally time I chime in here :)

 

 

 

To me, "hardcore" by itself is hardcore punk. Everything else I refer ro as metalcore, skacore, etc. (and that "hardcore" dance crap is, imo just dance music with a wannabe name). Many of the old-school HC bands (like BB, Minor Threat, Fugazi, etc.) I think of as just punk really. I guess they've just kinda lost their edge a bit over the years or maybe it's just cuz I've heard it all so many times. Doesn't come across as so "hardcore" anymore. Tho, as I think about it, maybe I've just always liked more bands that are HC bands, but I just always tended to think of them as punk.

 

 

 

Anyway, many newer bands have kinda re-defined what I think of as hardcore. I'll admit that many of them have the "roaring" type of vocals, but I don't necessarily let that define it for me. Current HC bands I listen to a lot: Comeback Kid, Bigwig, Rise Against, Strike Anywhere, Stretch Arm strong, Thought Riot, Set your Goals, No Trigger, Sinking Ships, Shook Ones.

 

 

 

I don't think you can call fugazi that much of a 'founding' hardcore band. Sure, mackaye was present, but he had another band before that, as well as minor threat. Also, check out black flag if you haven't already, their one of the founding bands.

 

 

 

Agreed...Fugazi came after HC had been established, while not a "founding" band, still pretty "old-school". hehe...I know BF well, Bill Stevenson is a punk rock god and currently producing/engineering the best albums out there.