I'll admit that the government is corrupt. But imagine where we would be with no government at all.

 

I'd rather have a corrupted government then none at all.

but I have a sense of patriotism, and it makes me sick to see people attacking us like this.

 

 

 

If patriotism makes you close your eyes from the mistakes done by your goverment. In my eyes true patriotic defends and supports his country, not his goverment. Do you feel like it was right to support NSDAP's policy in Germany?

 

 

 

that would be foolish to the point of sheer idiocy, and not every American is a killer

 

 

 

Again, you don't get the point. When we critisize your goverment, we don't lynch every American. There's cool americans who can use their own brains.

 

 

 

We go in to stop genocide.

 

 

 

Which genocide did you stop in Iraq or Afganistan? Saddam was judged for something he did during he was your allie and you still supported his regime few years after it.

 

 

 

Yes, some of us are patriotic, and feel so inclined to defend our country, do you want to crucify us for it? You do realize we have the power to control most of the world.

 

 

 

You got the power, but that doesn't make you any better. No country should have the right to act like USA currently is acting.

 

 

 

Venomai, the day we have world peace, I'll eat my own feet. Having a few pacifists crying for world peace isn't going to make it happen.

 

 

 

I'm not Venomai, but lets still answer. Even tho world piece is an unreachable fantasy (at least currently), it can't be the excuse for wars and misery. We may not stop all wars, but we can affect to the number of them.

 

 

 

Alternitave solutions have been explored. But, though I wish it were possible, they don't usually work as well as violent means

 

 

 

I find this rather funny. You judged violent acts from "terrorists" and same time you support it from your side. You gotta understand that when you use violence against someone, he most likely will use it against you. To stop violence you should not use it, tho: answering to violece with violence is an endless circle. A counterattack always follows a counterattack.

 

 

 

I'll admit that the government is corrupt. But imagine where we would be with no government at all. I'd rather have a corrupted government then none at all.

 

 

 

With that attitude you won't get anything better. Just because things could be worse, it doesn't mean you shouldn't fight for making things better.

 

If patriotism makes you close your eyes from the mistakes done by your goverment. In my eyes true patriotic defends and supports his country, not his goverment. Do you feel like it was right to support NSDAP's policy in Germany?

 

 

 

Hohto's right. I don't think the founding fathers wanted us to blindly defend all the government's actions. They wanted us to constantly scrutinize everything they do to prevent corruption, uphold justice, and above all, make sure our fundamental liberties are maintained. I understand this is very difficult for a patriotic american to hear, but history has shown us that power corrupts.

 

 

 

Even if there's only one-millionth of a chance that the government isn't upholding morality, you have a duty as an american to watch as closely as you can for signs of degradation.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, you don't get the point. When we critisize your goverment, we don't lynch every American. There's cool americans who can use their own brains.

 

 

 

That's correct also. The only people that are killers are on the top. The rest just think they're serving their country. It's how it's always been.

 

 

 

WW1 is a great example. The average private on the field wasn't fighting because of imperialist greed. He was being a patriotic German, or Englishman, or Frenchman, etc. Do you think he liked going to war? Of course not. He only did it because his respective monarch (who was fighting purely for profit) told him to.

 

 

 

Same in Iraq and Afghanistan. The big world leaders decided they wanted more oil, so they used 9/11 as an exuce to do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which genocide did you stop in Iraq or Afganistan? Saddam was judged for something he did during he was your allie and you still supported his regime few years after it.

 

 

 

People don't care if some madman goes and kills thousands of people unless it conflicts with their own interests.

 

 

 

 

You got the power, but that doesn't make you any better. No country should have the right to act like USA currently is acting.

 

 

 

 

That's how all great empires have acted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not Venomai, but lets still answer. Even tho world piece is an unreachable fantasy (at least currently), it can't be the excuse for wars and misery. We may not stop all wars, but we can affect to the number of them.

 

 

 

I agree, there will always be conflict and you can't stop that. But you can dramatically reduce it (and not by doing what we are currently :( ).

 

 

 

 

I find this rather funny. You judged violent acts from "terrorists" and same time you support it from your side. You gotta understand that when you use violence against someone, he most likely will use it against you. To stop violence you should not use it, tho: answering to violece with violence is an endless circle. A counterattack always follows a counterattack.

 

 

 

Sadly few understand that. :wall:

 

 

 

 

I'll admit that the government is corrupt. But imagine where we would be with no government at all. I'd rather have a corrupted government then none at all.

 

 

 

I'd rather live on a deserted island than in a corrupt fascist police state.

 

 

 

America is being hijacked.

 

 

 

(I'm an American. And my dad is currently in Afghanistan)

That's how all great empires have acted.

 

 

 

It's true that America's actions aren't anything new. However it can't be used as an explanation to keep doing it again. When we compare current possibilities to ww2 times or to even older, we're in a new situation: with current technology the consequences might be something we've never seen before. Compare it to ww2 for example: Germany's invasion was "easy" to stop as the chances to get totally destroyed for the stoppers were small. Now a big war wouldn't cause "only" 60 million casualties. It could turn into tens of times more.

 

 

 

If we want to avoid the total destruction, all these neoimperialistic countries (mainly Russia, China and USA) must stop their acts. If they keep pushing forward, eventually they'll be colliding. Already USA and Russia are playing dangerous games together: Russia is already rising its military budget a lot due the American missile shield project (we at least had one topic on the shield on these forums, for Russian budget: http://www.jbs.org/node/5081

 

 

 

The point here is that the way things are now done must be stopped. Just because we managed to survive from one cold war without the worst scenario happening, it doesn't mean we could do it again. During CW it was already so close few times, next time we may not be as lucky. If we get into a new world war, it could be even the end of mankind at worst scenario.

 

 

 

Btw, USA just announced that a certain Iranian military unit members are now terrorists. This includes 125,000 men who are serving in army the same way as US troops. The scary part here is that if US attacks Iran, these soldiers won't get the rights as normal war prisoners get if they get caught. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 62_pf.html

I never said that I didn't want the government to get better. If there was anything I could do that might change things for the better, I'd be the first one to attempt it.

 

 

 

I'm just saying that I'm one of those people who appreciate what they have. There are a lot of times where my corrupt government really pisses me off, but then I look at other countries who aren't as fortunate and would kill for the political system we have and realize that we could be worse off.

I never said that I didn't want the government to get better. If there was anything I could do that might change things for the better, I'd be the first one to attempt it.

 

 

 

I'm just saying that I'm one of those people who appreciate what they have. There are a lot of times where my corrupt government really pisses me off, but then I look at other countries who aren't as fortunate and would kill for the political system we have and realize that we could be worse off.

 

 

 

If we don't do everything we can now we will be worse off.

Ok maybe I'm not being clear on what I'm trying to say here.

 

I just want to focus on keeping the government from getting worse before we try to make it better.

Ok maybe I'm not being clear on what I'm trying to say here.

 

I just want to focus on keeping the government from getting worse before we try to make it better.

 

 

 

Oh, ok. :mrgreen:

As soon as I saw the words Wikipedia at the top, I knew I wasn't going to read this.

 

 

 

The thing with government, it's run by people and people are power-hungry and greedy. The thing without government - there is chaos and the people will eventually be conquered by a government.

 

 

 

All great empires rise and fall. America is bound to fall sooner or later.

As soon as I saw the words Wikipedia at the top, I knew I wasn't going to read this.

 

 

 

The thing with government, it's run by people and people are power-hungry and greedy. The thing without government - there is chaos and the people will eventually be conquered by a government.

 

 

 

All great empires rise and fall. America is bound to fall sooner or later.

 

If you don't read the OP, you don't have any right to post a reply.

As soon as I saw the words Wikipedia at the top, I knew I wasn't going to read this.

 

 

 

The thing with government, it's run by people and people are power-hungry and greedy. The thing without government - there is chaos and the people will eventually be conquered by a government.

 

 

 

All great empires rise and fall. America is bound to fall sooner or later.

 

If you don't read the OP, you don't have any right to post a reply.

 

 

 

I skimmed enough to understand the overall points. My reply didn't have much to do with the actual post, just a quick insight at government.

As soon as I saw the words Wikipedia at the top, I knew I wasn't going to read this.

 

Why does everybody think Wikipedia is crap? It's just another encyclopedia -- a very accurate, updated and detailed one at that.[1] :wall: I feel like a broken record.

As soon as I saw the words Wikipedia at the top, I knew I wasn't going to read this.

 

Why does everybody think Wikipedia is crap? It's just another encyclopedia -- a very accurate, updated and detailed one at that.[1] :wall: I feel like a broken record.

 

Exactly. Saying that Wikipedia is dangerous because "anybody can edit it" is like saying Open Source software is dangerous because "anybody can program it."