Evil: Choice or Instinct

[fallen_snipa]

its the human evil or it is good? let talk about it...

 

 

 

The primitive human being

 

Rousseau thought that the primitive human being was in his natural form/state, hes behavoir was determinated by the demands of his insticts, you know: find food, a safe place to live, reproduction. So with this characteristics and conditions of life. was completely impossible to think there could exist good n evil. The primitive had an amoral characteristic that means that he didnt have virtues nor vices. It was a pure human being

 

 

 

The Society corrupt us!

 

The primitive human being saw that if he make bonds, relate with others he could satisfy in a better way his necessities. That is how the society born.

 

The change of the free and pure nature of the human being happened when he by an excess of ambition of wealth and power, he delimited a land and he said: "THIS IS MINE!". After this started the class struggle, rivality and the born of the most important factor for the progress of inequality: private property. Thats when the vanity (if you got it) and envy (if you dont got it) came up. From the envy born the jelousy and hatred; the egoism born from the possession of those objects and the skills that causes the public high regard. Rousseau blame the society for the evil

 

 

 

My comment

 

He mean that our problem the possesion of things, the ambition of having something turn us bad and if see that someone got something we want we feel envy, that wish to get that off him and make it mine and if we got it we show off so the others can make us feel important. That make us feel good. Even in this game happens, when we see sometime valuable that we dont got that is in the hand of another person for example a guys with party hat or some rare generally we said "cool, thats awsome" or something like that but deep inside us we wish that we find him at the wilderness with nothing, alone so we could kill him and grab his item when hes dead so we can show off and you know the rest of the history

[reaper88888]

Humans are inherently evil. So-called 'good' people are really just evil people who are suppressing their tendancy to do bad to appear good in the public eye.

[Sartre]

How are humans inherently evil?

[Korskin]

Religion has nothing to do with this so dont throw any "The Bible said..." crap.

 

The Bible or what I think is the same thing or at least that's my intention.

 

 

 

If evil means doing things that are morally wrong then yes I'm inherently evil. Seeing as I try to do good and want to do good but still end up doing a lot of things that are morally wrong.

 

 

 

I believe all humans inherently love sin, the difference is how we look at the problem. Either we accept sin as a part of our life/life-style, or we repent and seek forgiveness.

[warri0r45]

Religion has nothing to do with this so dont throw any "The Bible said..." crap.

 

The Bible or what I think is the same thing or at least that's my intention.

 

 

 

If evil means doing things that are morally wrong then yes I'm inherently evil. Seeing as I try to do good and want to do good but still end up doing a lot of things that are morally wrong.

 

 

 

(1) I believe all humans inherently love sin, the difference is how we look at the problem. (2) Either we accept sin as a part of our life/life-style, or we repent and seek forgiveness.

 

 

 

(1) I smell an all inclusive claim. I challenge your belief that all humans love to kill each other.

 

 

 

(2) So we are inherently evil but it's up to us to ask for forgiveness for being evil? I'd rather ask he who made me inherently evil to apologise for expecting me to ask for forgiveness for portraying inherent qualities. It's a set up for sure-fire failure which the need of an apology for smacks of meaningless ego stroking. It's like the universe is a giant experiment where whenever we go for the cheeze, we get shocked then asked to apologise for trying to eat.

[ktmcf121]

It's like the universe is a giant experiment where whenever we go for the cheeze, we get shocked then asked to apologise for trying to eat.

 

 

 

yes... this is probably the best analogy i've ever heard for christianity. =D>

[warri0r45]

It's like the universe is a giant experiment where whenever we go for the cheeze, we get shocked then asked to apologise for trying to eat.

 

 

 

yes... this is probably the best analogy i've ever heard for christianity. =D>

 

 

 

Sarcasm? Do you think it's a bad analogy? If so, why?

[Korskin]

(1) I smell an all inclusive claim. I challenge your belief that all humans love to kill each other.

 

 

 

(2) So we are inherently evil but it's up to us to ask for forgiveness for being evil? I'd rather ask he who made me inherently evil to apologise for expecting me to ask for forgiveness for portraying inherent qualities. It's a set up for sure-fire failure which the need of an apology for smacks of meaningless ego stroking. It's like the universe is a giant experiment where whenever we go for the cheeze, we get shocked then asked to apologise for trying to eat.

 

(1) Some people love to kill. Serial killers seem to get some kind of satisfaction from it. Sin is a wide concept, just because you don't like to kill doesn't mean you don't love other sins.

 

 

 

(2) We are inherently evil since the initial choice made by Adam. We weren't inherently evil from the beginning. So if you want to blame someone, blame Adam.

[Rainy_Day]

I don't believe it is either. I believe it is the society that you are brought up in that would influence you to be 'evil'.

 

 

 

But some people are born with mental problems which could make them, to us, seem evil by doing atrocious acts (EG Murder), but with a mental condition, I guess they're not to blame for the 'evil' within.

[warri0r45]

(1) I smell an all inclusive claim. I challenge your belief that all humans love to kill each other.

 

 

 

(2) So we are inherently evil but it's up to us to ask for forgiveness for being evil? I'd rather ask he who made me inherently evil to apologise for expecting me to ask for forgiveness for portraying inherent qualities. It's a set up for sure-fire failure which the need of an apology for smacks of meaningless ego stroking. It's like the universe is a giant experiment where whenever we go for the cheeze, we get shocked then asked to apologise for trying to eat.

 

(1) Some people love to kill. Serial killers seem to get some kind of satisfaction from it. Sin is a wide concept, just because you don't like to kill doesn't mean you don't love other sins.

 

 

 

(2) We are inherently evil since the initial choice made by Adam. We weren't inherently evil from the beginning. So if you want to blame someone, blame Adam.

 

 

 

(1) So we've gone from all people love to sin, which implies all inclusiveness, to merely some people loving to commit particular sins. Problem solvered. By the way going through the ten commandments, the only thing I can think of that I love to do would be to covet. Even then it comes in phases, namely when I discover a CD I want to buy. Others I would be against or indifferent to.

 

 

 

(2) And who made Adam who he is? Did he have the same vices we do? Who gave him these vices? The same general argument as before applies. According to Christian theology, we are inherently evil according to the actions of Adam, whom god made with the curiousity required to eat the fruit (and the actual fruit itself, talk about leaving the boiling saucpan handle in reach of the toddler). He eats the fruit and the human race is damned and needs to apologise or repent for forgiveness. So as not only an innate quality of humans, that being curiosity (and the yearning for knowlege, what a crime), yet also as the result of the actions of another, I need to apologise and repent. Isn't it fair to at least in part blame god or question why I need to apologise to him? If not, why not? Why is he not apologising to me for expecting me to apologise for being inherently evil as a consequence of existing in a time where I'm damned because of the actions of one who came before me? It's like me discriminating against all Germans because of the Nazi regime in the 1930's and 40's. I'm never going to blame or ever mention the current day Germans in the same light, with the same baggage, as thier predecessors, based on thier predecessors actions. You see, I don't see that as fair.

[dragoonson]

My evil began as choice,and is now insticnt,not so much to harm but to irritate,in a harmful way...

[Korskin]

(1) So we've gone from all people love to sin, which implies all inclusiveness, to merely some people loving to commit particular sins. Problem solvered. By the way going through the ten commandments, the only thing I can think of that I love to do would be to covet. Even then it comes in phases, namely when I discover a CD I want to buy. Others I would be against or indifferent to.

 

 

 

(2) And who made Adam who he is? Did he have the same vices we do? Who gave him these vices? The same general argument as before applies. According to Christian theology, we are inherently evil according to the actions of Adam, whom god made with the curiousity required to eat the fruit (and the actual fruit itself, talk about leaving the boiling saucpan handle in reach of the toddler). He eats the fruit and the human race is damned and needs to apologise or repent for forgiveness. So as not only an innate quality of humans, that being curiosity (and the yearning for knowlege, what a crime), yet also as the result of the actions of another, I need to apologise and repent. Isn't it fair to at least in part blame god or question why I need to apologise to him? If not, why not? Why is he not apologising to me for expecting me to apologise for being inherently evil as a consequence of existing in a time where I'm damned because of the actions of one who came before me? It's like me discriminating against all Germans because of the Nazi regime in the 1930's and 40's. I'm never going to blame or ever mention the current day Germans in the same light, with the same baggage, as thier predecessors, based on thier predecessors actions. You see, I don't see that as fair.

 

(1) Loving to commit particular sins is pretty much the same thing as loving sin.

 

8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[a] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder."[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

 

 

 

(2) The key is free will. Adam knew what the consequences of his actions were. Yet he chose to defy God's will knowing it would mean he would surely die. You can question why God planted such a tree there. Perhaps free will wouldn't mean much if it was impossible to do anything wrong. If we want true free will, perhaps we must have good and bad choices to choose between. I'm just speculating.

 

 

 

However, I think there's a reason for us to repent and ask for forgiveness. If we never repent and ask for forgiveness, we gradually make sinning something normal and okay. Perhaps the first time we sin really make us feel bad, but when we've done the same thing over and over lots of times, it won't be as significant anymore. The first time it's a pretty big threshold to overcome, but the 100th time that threshold is practically gone unless you always repent and ask for forgiveness. I think forgiveness whether it's to God or to your friend is very important. It reminds us that some things aren't okay and that we shouldn't do them.

[Sartre]

You are saying Adam chose to do bad, but was not inherently evil and so had the free decision to do that. Whereas you are then painting humans all the same in saying we are all inherently evil and so will continue to sin like Adam did, but without the freedom of will to stop ourselves?

 

 

 

I hear religious people say over and over again that all humans are sinners and we all require forgiveness, does that also entail the fact that we do not have the free will in which to not sin? Or is it just so damn ridiculous that in the enviroment that we live in we can't help but sin?

 

 

 

Was Adam capable of sin before he ate the apple? By our standards would we have said he lived a sin free life, or did he live an amoral lifestyle since sin did not exist? After Adam ate the apple God then creates the laws of the world, whats sinful and what is not. Did he create humans as sinners? Or did he create laws in which to entrap humans as not being able to live a life without sin?

[highlanders]

Lol, I can't believe you people, but it was predictable, coming from 'evil: choice or instinct' and going to Adam and Eve.

 

 

 

Lets see... Apparently, the human race appeared when suddenly Adam and Eve popped out of nowhere near in a garden near an apple tree. Why do I suddenly find Christianity very ridicule?

 

Sure some people could say it's an "image", a "metaphor" or the likes. I could also say that when Jesus transformed water into wine, it was an "image" to show how generous he was. I think it's pretty silly to believe in a book that obviously cannot draw the line between the imagined and the truth, claiming imagined things as truths aswell. And who knows how many times that book has been edited by the Church to serve their best interests. Some person called Jesus, magic powers or not, said peace, love, cooperation, wisedom, tolerance, and things in the like. But then some random people came and used their story to create a church, rituals, beliefs, added "heaven and hell", all to control their followers and expand themselves. Sorry but in my opinion, if you believe in Christianity, then you're just letting yourself be controlled, and letting other people choose how you live your life, basically giving up your free will.

[warri0r45]

(1) So we've gone from all people love to sin, which implies all inclusiveness, to merely some people loving to commit particular sins. Problem solvered. By the way going through the ten commandments, the only thing I can think of that I love to do would be to covet. Even then it comes in phases, namely when I discover a CD I want to buy. Others I would be against or indifferent to.

 

 

 

(2) And who made Adam who he is? Did he have the same vices we do? Who gave him these vices? The same general argument as before applies. According to Christian theology, we are inherently evil according to the actions of Adam, whom god made with the curiousity required to eat the fruit (and the actual fruit itself, talk about leaving the boiling saucpan handle in reach of the toddler). He eats the fruit and the human race is damned and needs to apologise or repent for forgiveness. So as not only an innate quality of humans, that being curiosity (and the yearning for knowlege, what a crime), yet also as the result of the actions of another, I need to apologise and repent. Isn't it fair to at least in part blame god or question why I need to apologise to him? If not, why not? Why is he not apologising to me for expecting me to apologise for being inherently evil as a consequence of existing in a time where I'm damned because of the actions of one who came before me? It's like me discriminating against all Germans because of the Nazi regime in the 1930's and 40's. I'm never going to blame or ever mention the current day Germans in the same light, with the same baggage, as thier predecessors, based on thier predecessors actions. You see, I don't see that as fair.

 

(1) Loving to commit particular sins is pretty much the same thing as loving sin.

 

8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

 

 

 

(2) The key is free will. Adam knew what the consequences of his actions were. Yet he chose to defy God's will knowing it would mean he would surely die. You can question why God planted such a tree there. Perhaps free will wouldn't mean much if it was impossible to do anything wrong. If we want true free will, perhaps we must have good and bad choices to choose between. I'm just speculating.

 

 

 

However, I think there's a reason for us to repent and ask for forgiveness. If we never repent and ask for forgiveness, we gradually make sinning something normal and okay. Perhaps the first time we sin really make us feel bad, but when we've done the same thing over and over lots of times, it won't be as significant anymore. The first time it's a pretty big threshold to overcome, but the 100th time that threshold is practically gone unless you always repent and ask for forgiveness. I think forgiveness whether it's to God or to your friend is very important. It reminds us that some things aren't okay and that we shouldn't do them.

 

 

 

(1) Again with the all inclusive claim. No, I don't love to kill people, I don't love to or think I'm a rebellious genious by saying 'god damn' or not heeding on the sabbath, I don't love disrespecting my parents or neigbours, I don't love (or don't) having gods or idols before yours and I don't love to (or don't) steal or commit adultery. But hey, don't worry, I sometimes love to covet, which means I love sin.

 

 

 

(2) True, we have free will too. But we also have an innate evil within us which leads us into sin for which we have to apologise. But why are we apologising for acting on innate qualities? The key here is the apology or the need to be saved. Why shouldn't god apologise to us for expecting apology for acting on innate evils which are the consequence of happeing to exist after the effects of Adam come into play? Don't you see this as unfair? If your first born failed in life, would you hold this against your second born? Would you put him down as a consequence of his existance happening to come after his older sibling's? Would you ask your second born to apologise because your first born screwed up, even going so far as to say an apology is necessary so he can go to college or avoid a casting out to the gutter on his own? As for the tree, would you ever try and make your home safe for your kids or do you like leaving knives around the place? Faulty wiring? Boiling water? It's a set up for failure exacerbated by Adam's curiosity and the brazen crime of yearning for knowledge. It's almost as if it was supposed to happen.

 

 

 

As for the second part of this section, of course, we should apologise if we're in the wrong. But I'm going right back to the essence of why it is we are evil in the first place here. The innate quality of evil and a tendancy to sin had to come from somewhere. Adam's curiosity and the tree of knowlegde had to come from somewhere. All signs in this little scenario lead to purpose behind us being the evil that we are. But who needs to apologise here? Us, for existing consequentially by the hand of another, or the other, which made us and expects us not to do what it is we were set up to do?