I started this thread a while ago on Scapeboard, so I guess I'll start it again here, since I've always been interested in this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think animals can see just like us? (Not talking about seeing colour) Do you think animals can control their actions like us, and choose what they want to do, or do you think they move just by instinct?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry if this is hard to understand, just post and I'll explain more if you don't understand.

Most animals are scientifically proven to life fully on instincts, but there are many exceptions like apes, chimpanzees, dolphins, etc. that don't necessarily base their life fully on their insticts as birds do (I'm just using a bird as an example of an animal which most likely has no idea it exists, it lives on it's instincts). When a bird builds it's nest, it does it purely based on instinct. It didn't "learn" to do so, it simply does so to protect it's offspring.

So when a parrot talks it does it purely on instinct?

Yep, it doesn't talk - it just repeats the sound it hears.

ive been thing about this for a long time and i ahve no idea but it would be kewl if they did. :shock:

My dog went nuts when it saw itself in a mirror. He looked behind it and just layed down nose to nose with the mirror for hours staring into his own eyes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was a strange sight.

My dog went nuts when it saw itself in a mirror. He looked behind it and just layed down nose to nose with the mirror for hours staring into his own eyes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was a strange sight.

so does my bird lol he gets crazy everytime he se a mirror

Humans are the only creatures (that we know of) aware that they are going to die...

I think that apes certainly are. Having seen them in conversation on TV (that was cool--assuming it wasn't some weird hoax) I'm sure that apes are both self aware and intelligent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other mamals, too, I think are: cats and dogs get embarrased, which one wouldn't expect of anyone who didn't have a sense of self. I don't know enough about other types of animals' behaviour, so I can't use that argumet for them. I don't think that things like flies and worms are aware of themselves; I think they have a mind, make desicions, et cetera, but I don't think that they think about things as complex as "being" or "death".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps self awareness is linked with how much time an animal spends thinking: many mamals live a lot longer than most insects, and I think that, on the whole, mamals are the group of animals in which the most species are likely to be self aware. One might think that because things like insect larvae can live pretty much indefinately--they can sort of "hibernate", I think--they would cause problems with this ^^ idea. However, I don't think that they can think during that sort of thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that some animals interact with others in a way which suggests that they understand that the other has feelings--if you follow. This seems, to me, to in turn suggest that the animals are aware of themselves and others of their kind "being"... but not necessarily that they are "self-aware" in the way that chimps are. (I say "in the way that chimps are", because one hears about them being shown themselves in a mirror and working out that it's actually them). Fish that swim in shoals don't necessarily interact with each other: they interact with "the shoal", but I'm not certain that they understand that the shoal is made up of fish; or if they do, then I'm not sure they understand that those fish are, like they, a thing receiving stimuli--in other words, I don't think that they consider the feelings of the other fish. Maybe they do, of course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This all depends on how far you want to take it, no? I mean, we're (specifically "you're") "self-aware"; we don't know if anything else even exists (but let's not go into that). Bacteria are almost certainly not self-aware or intelligent (for almost read: "I'm 99.999999999.......9999% sure).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose that there are also different levels of self awareness: for instance, I'm sure that dogs recognise that they themselves exist. I don't think that they would understand that the thing in the mirror is themself, but they might notice that their moving causes the thing in the mirror to move. We, on the other hand, are fully aware that we are people, and that other people are people (see "not going into this", above); and chimps are certainly seem aware that other chimps are "people".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's as simple a question as "do you think animals are consciously aware they are living?", because different animals are.. different. I'm pretty sure that most animals that can be said to have "intelligence" are aware that they make desicions: perhaps they do it subconsciously, but if they can make (relatively) complex desicions, I suspect that they have a mind, and if they have a mind, I suspect that they are on some level aware that they are alive.

I don't know many animal's who has it in their instincts to hump a blanket (my chihuahua...lmao..) so yea...

I don't know many animal's who has it in their instincts to hump a blanket (my chihuahua...lmao..) so yea...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reproduction is quite possibly the strongest instinct for male dogs. A sense of being self aware would allow the dog to realize that it can't hump a blanket, it can only hump things that look like it.

no, i think animals are robots that have all their functions and their entire moves already set out ahead of them, and they have no idea what they are doing. they have no control over their actions

My dog can open doors. That's not instinct. (sp?)

i think thats a weird question, it seems obvious to me that they can control their actions, ofcourse instinct plays into a big part of it. Maybe i am just being oblivous or something. Why do you think dogs run away sometimes, after living a great life with their owners. Something tells me its not instinct, but just plain curiousity or even the desire of change or freedom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But it matters how u look at it i guess, you can probably argue the humans act purely on instinct too if u look at it correctly. But yet we are free to do what we want

Didnt scientists do a research or something that showed that animals didnt know that they were living?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Robots with BRAINS.

Why do you think dogs run away sometimes, after living a great life with their owners. Something tells me its not instinct, but just plain curiousity or even the desire of change or freedom.

 

 

 

It's because they have the desire to reproduce

Going back to pete's post, i'd like to share an observation...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bacteria just reproduce,

 

 

 

Dogs can't understand that 'that thing in the mirror' is them, but they certainly show some signs of intelligence and basic reasoning, i.e. opening a door granting them access to a new area.

 

 

 

Monkeys are almost certianly intelligent, they realise that it is their reflection in the mirror, and the only thing that they lack is opposable thumbs'.

 

 

 

And then theres us, the top of the tree, the kings of the hill. But are we, thats my point, the scale must surely continue, and we as humans wouldnt be able to grasp the concept of how it continued by default, otherwise we wouldnt be in that place on the scale.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point is if dogs knew what they were lacking to go up on the scale, they would be able to do it, so our predeccessor (sp?) could be right in front of us but our ignorance (no offence, its the right term) forbids us to see it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whew im confused lol...

 

Why do you think dogs run away sometimes, after living a great life with their owners. Something tells me its not instinct, but just plain curiousity or even the desire of change or freedom.

 

 

 

It's because they have the desire to reproduce

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also its instinct for dogs to not live in one place for long long periods of time. If dogs were self aware, they would understand they have a good life and stay where they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the dog opening doors. That has nothing to do with knowing its living. The dog needs to go to the other rooms. It has seen how we get to the other room. It repeats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of instincts are picked up from whoever raised the animal. Sometimes if an animal isn't raised with the correct parent, it won't learn to do something vital to its life.

 

 

 

Monkeys are almost certianly intelligent, they realise that it is their reflection in the mirror, and the only thing that they lack is opposable thumbs'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chimps do have opposable thumbs; all primates do.

My CAT can open doors that's pretty awesome but it's freaky when in the middle of the night you hear BANG! Meow.... BANG! meow... and then the door slides open to reveal MY FLUFFY KITTY AHHHhhhh

 

 

 

 

Monkeys are almost certianly intelligent, they realise that it is their reflection in the mirror, and the only thing that they lack is opposable thumbs'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chimps do have opposable thumbs; all primates do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then i don't understand what separates us, from them. Surely with opposable thumbs they can do all the things we can?

 

My dog went nuts when it saw itself in a mirror. He looked behind it and just layed down nose to nose with the mirror for hours staring into his own eyes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was a strange sight.

so does my bird lol he gets crazy everytime he se a mirror

 

 

 

My 2 cats don't mind about the mirror almost in any way. But one always gets scared when she sees a mirror.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Humans are the only creatures (that we know of) aware that they are going to die...

 

 

 

Could be but elephants are afraid of dead elephants bones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Monkeys are almost certianly intelligent, they realise that it is their reflection in the mirror, and the only thing that they lack is opposable thumbs'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chimps do have opposable thumbs; all primates do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then i don't understand what separates us, from them. Surely with opposable thumbs they can do all the things we can?

 

 

 

Well, they brains are somewhat smaller aren't they?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On to question are animals aware they live, BlueLancer summet it pretty well, I doubt I could say it better :P .

 

 

 

 

 

Monkeys are almost certianly intelligent, they realise that it is their reflection in the mirror, and the only thing that they lack is opposable thumbs'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chimps do have opposable thumbs; all primates do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then i don't understand what separates us, from them. Surely with opposable thumbs they can do all the things we can?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chimps brains aren't developed quite to the extent as ours. They can develop tools because their brains are developed to see that there is a better way of doing something. We can develop the extent of our technology because we are capable of thinking abstractly for no reason at all. Chimps also don't have the ability have language. They communicate mostly with the influctuations of their voice but can't make "words" and recognize a language like we can, its considered abtract to do so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was some more I learned about in Biology a couple years ago..but I forgot most.

LOL, I literally just finished a paper on this subject for my psycology class. In fact, its still warm from my printer. I printed it, then decided I desearved a break so I checked these boards :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway; here it is, I don't expect anyone to read the entire thing, but if you want answers, here they are:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Animals, consciousness, do they go together? For millennia humans have wondered if animals could think for themselves, or if they simply did whatever they needed to in order to survive. Even today, with all of mankindÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s technological advances, we do not know the answer to that question for sure. The subject itself is the object of many important debates and countless arguments have been written to support either side.

 

 

 

Personally, I have always wondered if my dog could think. I recall coming home from town to find my dog hiding in the corner with his ears flattened down. I look in the living room to find out he left me a ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Ålittle presentÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

 

 

Why do you think dogs run away sometimes, after living a great life with their owners. Something tells me its not instinct, but just plain curiousity or even the desire of change or freedom.

 

 

 

It's because they have the desire to reproduce

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also its instinct for dogs to not live in one place for long long periods of time. If dogs were self aware, they would understand they have a good life and stay where they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the dog opening doors. That has nothing to do with knowing its living. The dog needs to go to the other rooms. It has seen how we get to the other room. It repeats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of instincts are picked up from whoever raised the animal. Sometimes if an animal isn't raised with the correct parent, it won't learn to do something vital to its life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that isnt considered an instinct then. instincts are behaviors that you are born with. such as crying for humans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

any behavior acquired through experience, however common it seems, isnt instinct.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it is my opinion that most animals do not base much of their actions on instincts. take the parrot example on page 1. ive been to a live parrot show, and the parrots are trained to say phrases at exact times (with a cracker as a reward), id hardly call that just repeating what they heard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

as for the experiment that "proves" animals only act on instinct, i doubt there was ever such an experiment. (how do you scientifically prove animals dont have conscious thought anyways?). even if there was such an experiment, it probably was extremely biased and funded by cheap fur companies to justify what they are doing.