Is America Full?

[Medellin]

Using the word "refuge" implies that we are consciously aiding them, which is not true. All we need to do is give them a fair chance at finding jobs like everybody else in the history of this country. America is no more of a refuge to Mexican laborers than it was to the Chinese laborers before them, the Irish laborers before them, the German laborers before them, and the Puritan laborers before them.

 

 

 

 

refÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâ÷uge /ÃÆââ¬Â¹Ãâ¹Ã¢â¬Â rÃÆââ¬Â°Ã¢ââ¬ÃºfyudÃÆàâââ‰â¢/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ref-yooj] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -uged, -ugÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâ÷ing.

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãânoun

 

1. shelter or protection from danger, trouble, etc.: to take refuge from a storm.

 

2. a place of shelter, protection, or safety.

 

 

 

I understand that you're trying to say that America's immigration laws are hard. But like I told you, it's not easy to get into a Western country because of all the regulations they keep up. And also, instead of just jumping ship from their country, they should try to fix their own. America does not exist as a refuge for them to just 'enter' because they need to. I'm sure Africans would love to 'just go' to European countries where they will have better lives, but it's just not going to happen.

[Nitramosma]

 

, get away with not paying taxes and get all the benefits.

 

Not paying taxes means not being a legal entity. Not being a legal entity means living off the grid. Living off the grid means not having any benefits. Illegals cannot apply for social security, welfare, etc., and they obviously do not have the language skills and boldness necessary to "con the system" as a real American person could.

 

Besides, the potential income tax from their below-minimum wage is too insignificant to matter.

 

 

 

Thats not exactly true

 

More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens.

 

More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens.

 

From the 2006 (lst Qtr) INS/FBI Statistical Report

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Å12 Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens. (thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s more than 21,900 murders by illegal aliens since September 11, 2001)

 

 

 

13 people per day are killed by illegal immigrants who drive under the influence of drugs or alcohol. An additional 4,745 premature deaths per year.

 

 

 

62% of all ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åundocumented immigrantsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

 

, get away with not paying taxes and get all the benefits.

 

Not paying taxes means not being a legal entity. Not being a legal entity means living off the grid. Living off the grid means not having any benefits. Illegals cannot apply for social security, welfare, etc., and they obviously do not have the language skills and boldness necessary to "con the system" as a real American person could.

 

Besides, the potential income tax from their below-minimum wage is too insignificant to matter.

 

 

 

Thats not exactly true

 

More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens.

 

More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens.

 

From the 2006 (lst Qtr) INS/FBI Statistical Report

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Å12 Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens. (thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s more than 21,900 murders by illegal aliens since September 11, 2001)

 

 

 

13 people per day are killed by illegal immigrants who drive under the influence of drugs or alcohol. An additional 4,745 premature deaths per year.

 

 

 

62% of all ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åundocumented immigrantsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[Nitramosma]

did you read that snopes article? While the list itself is a fake (sorry for not checking my sources :oops: ) many of the numbers it cites are in essence true.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

Using the word "refuge" implies that we are consciously aiding them, which is not true. All we need to do is give them a fair chance at finding jobs like everybody else in the history of this country. America is no more of a refuge to Mexican laborers than it was to the Chinese laborers before them, the Irish laborers before them, the German laborers before them, and the Puritan laborers before them.

 

 

 

 

refÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâ÷uge /ÃÆââ¬Â¹Ãâ¹Ã¢â¬Â rÃÆââ¬Â°Ã¢ââ¬ÃºfyudÃÆàâââ‰â¢/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ref-yooj] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -uged, -ugÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâ÷ing.

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãânoun

 

1. shelter or protection from danger, trouble, etc.: to take refuge from a storm.

 

2. a place of shelter, protection, or safety.

 

That's why I said using the word refuge is wrong. America isn't a place of shelter, protection, or safety to most immigrants. It's a place for competition and opportunity.

 

 

 

 

I understand that you're trying to say that America's immigration laws are hard. But like I told you, it's not easy to get into a Western country because of all the regulations they keep up. And also, instead of just jumping ship from their country, they should try to fix their own.

 

 

That's like saying poor people in America should work on "building a better America" instead of focusing on something more relevant like finding jobs. Fixing Mexico is up to the rich, not the poor. The poor have much more urgent needs like feeding their family, so what's wrong with a little human decency by letting them work in this country?

 

 

 

 

America does not exist as a refuge for them to just 'enter' because they need to.

 

Until very recently, America has allowed people to enter just because they need to. It's a major influence on how this country has survived and grown.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure Africans would love to 'just go' to European countries where they will have better lives, but it's just not going to happen.

 

Africa and Europe are two separate continents, so that situation is obviously "not going to happen." However, there is nothing wrong with a man from Congo being a laborer in more-prosperous South Africa in order to support himself and his family back home.

[Lenin64]

I don't like that people stay in this country illegally, my grandparents and parents came to this country in the late 70s by spending fractions of their fortunes and then obtained citizenship, so it isn't fair people just waltz into the country, get away with not paying taxes and get all the benefits.

 

 

 

And if it is something like they live here for 12 years and then get kicked out, its pretty stupid of them to have not applied for a citizenship in those 12years, it shows they were either delebrately dodging tax or they had no clue how the system works.

 

 

 

 

 

You know whats funny?(sorry for not giving you the chance to guess :P :XD) If Illegal Mexican immigrants make it to Florida before the coast guard catches them, they are granted sanctuary. And yet our government makes all this fuss about illegal immigration....

 

I'm pretty sure that's only Cubans, fleeing from a "dictatorial, aweful government", and if the Coast Guard catches them before they are fully out of the water, they can be sent back, even if they're only in a foot of water.

[No_OnE]

America is full in one sense; it's full of mindless, idiotic drones who obey the top 1%. (Keep in mind, I'm American. Don't flame me for telling it like it is.)

 

So you're saying that 99% of all Americans are just mindless idiots? That's odd. I'd just love to see where you got that information.

 

 

 

 

 

On topic:

 

 

 

No, we still have tons of wildlife preserves, national parks and forests, and plenty of useless desert to build overpriced suburban houses and condos on.[/sarcasm]

 

Glad your being sarcastic. Because if we started tearing down wildlife preserves, national parks, and forests to build houses, we'd end up more screwed than we were in the first place.

 

 

 

Take away all the golf courses from the rich. You end up with thousands of acres of good land, AND you get rid of a snobby, elitist sport that wastes materials and land.

 

Snobby, elitist sport? I play golf. My family is middle-class. Definitely not rich or snobby and we don't consider ourselves to be elite in any way. Yet we play golf. So do a lot of my friends. It's a relaxing sport. It may take up land but so do football fields, baseball fields, soccer fields, bowling alleys, etc. It would be stupid to take away the fun that each citizen has a right to just to make room for illegal immigrants.

 

 

 

Basically, the typical American attitude toward immigrants, illegal or no, 'They tuk our joorbs!' I think it is truly amazing how noone seems to realize that every single person in the world is an immigrant, or a descendant of an immigrant, with the exception of the few people who may live in that small valley where human life first arose.

 

Yes, we were once all immigrants. Way back in a time when America was growing. Even just one hundred years ago, our population was so much smaller that we could take on more people. In fact, we wanted more people. Times have changed now.

 

 

 

Personally, I'd love to trade 10 million of our lazy, undereducated, fat bigots for 10 million immigrants who want to have jobs and go to school. But then, its not my decision...

 

I would too. But it can't happen. So we have to keep the 10 million lazys and deny the 10 million workers. It's sad but it's life.

 

 

 

 

 

If we surrounded the country with steel walls right now, evicted all illegal immigrants, and stopped immigration completely, emergency rooms and prisons would still be full and people would still not be able to afford insurance. Healthcare and Insurance in america are huge problems that extend far beyond (and before) the illegal immigration debate. It doesn't make sense to think that Mexicans, who desperately need to lay low and keep their jobs in this country, would be more likely to get injured or get imprisoned than regular Americans.

 

Emergency rooms would be full but they would be less full. Same with prisons. It wouldn't solve one hundred percent of our problems but it would certainly help.

 

 

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is that the U.S. isn't full yet but we have a higher birthrate than deathrate. If we were successful in keeping out all illegal immigrants, we would still one day become overpopulated. Right now, we're trying to delay that inevitable event. Honestly, I'm not heartless. I feel sorry for the immigrants that want a better life but aren't able to come here. It probably is selfish to keep them out. But that's the way things are.

[Lenin64]

The fact of the matter is that the U.S. isn't full yet but we have a higher birthrate than deathrate.

 

Therefore, the only option available to us is a mass murder rampage. If every American on tipit kills at least 20 people, it might make that much of a difference. :roll: Or, you know, we could just stop [...]ing each other

[Defender2516]

 

, get away with not paying taxes and get all the benefits.

 

Not paying taxes means not being a legal entity. Not being a legal entity means living off the grid. Living off the grid means not having any benefits. Illegals cannot apply for social security, welfare, etc., and they obviously do not have the language skills and boldness necessary to "con the system" as a real American person could.

 

Besides, the potential income tax from their below-minimum wage is too insignificant to matter.

 

 

 

Thats not exactly true

 

More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens.

 

More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens.

 

From the 2006 (lst Qtr) INS/FBI Statistical Report

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Å12 Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens. (thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s more than 21,900 murders by illegal aliens since September 11, 2001)

 

 

 

13 people per day are killed by illegal immigrants who drive under the influence of drugs or alcohol. An additional 4,745 premature deaths per year.

 

 

 

62% of all ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åundocumented immigrantsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[Medellin]

I don't know why your vouching for people who break the law.

 

 

 

He's probably a Mexican

[Saru Inc]

First off, let me apologize if someone has already brought up this point and debated it, I have not looked at the replies yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

America is nowhere near full. There is so much empty space everywhere. Not just where I live, but lots of places have HUGE open spaces or woodland that could be chopped down to make room for neighborhoods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think part of the reason getting a Visa is so hard, is because if it was easy, many many many more immigrants would come in, and it would be harder for the natural citizens to find jobs or something.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

 

did you read that snopes article? While the list itself is a fake (sorry for not checking my sources Embarassed ) many of the numbers it cites are in essence true.

 

The only true number on that list is the one about radio stations speaking spanish. The rest are not true. Read the article again.

 

 

 

 

Emergency rooms would be full but they would be less full. Same with prisons. It wouldn't solve one hundred percent of our problems but it would certainly help.

 

 

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is that the U.S. isn't full yet but we have a higher birthrate than deathrate. If we were successful in keeping out all illegal immigrants, we would still one day become overpopulated. Right now, we're trying to delay that inevitable event. Honestly, I'm not heartless. I feel sorry for the immigrants that want a better life but aren't able to come here. It probably is selfish to keep them out. But that's the way things are.

 

I don't think you understand how big and how small the numbers are. Illegal immigration is a very insignificant part of the population increase. It would maybe stop us from reaching that overpopulation "point" by about a week or something. The kind of "less full" delay you want would require stopping all immigration and deporting all first-generation citizens.

 

 

 

 

The INS ceased to exist on March 1, 2003. Your report claims to be from 2006. Also, googling the report title will lead you to many other message boards where people have posted the link to snopes explaning/debunking your chain mail letter.

 

 

 

Because like you said paperclips, everyone who crosses the border has "good intentions".

 

 

 

I don't know why your vouching for people who break the law.

 

I'm actually vouching for not posting false information (according to the post you quoted). I don't see anything in that post about breaking the law. Unless if you mean the dude who posted the fake info was breaking some moral law.

 

 

 

He's probably a Mexican

 

Come back when you stop believing that only people of the same race would defend one another. Times have changed.

[No_OnE]

 

Emergency rooms would be full but they would be less full. Same with prisons. It wouldn't solve one hundred percent of our problems but it would certainly help.

 

 

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is that the U.S. isn't full yet but we have a higher birthrate than deathrate. If we were successful in keeping out all illegal immigrants, we would still one day become overpopulated. Right now, we're trying to delay that inevitable event. Honestly, I'm not heartless. I feel sorry for the immigrants that want a better life but aren't able to come here. It probably is selfish to keep them out. But that's the way things are.

 

I don't think you understand how big and how small the numbers are. Illegal immigration is a very insignificant part of the population increase. It would maybe stop us from reaching that overpopulation "point" by about a week or something. The kind of "less full" delay you want would require stopping all immigration and deporting all first-generation citizens.

 

My argument was aimed at those who wanted to allow all immigration. The fact that it's already illegal makes it ok but if we were to open up our country to anybody who wanted to come, the population would start increasing more and you would see changes in places like emergency rooms. Just because it hasn't exactly gotten to that point yet, doesn't mean it won't if we open our arms to everyone.