Please Help - Rant's forum post request

[Kyle6203]

 

 

 

(My runescape username was Doa, you can give credit to me in the post or if you just want to post the rant in your name that is fine by me as it doesn't matter as long as the message is heard.)

 

 

 

Here is the post:

 

 

 

Hello, I "was" a long time player of runescape. I played from about 1999- about 5 or 6 months into the release of Runescape 2. I do not play anymore due to a heavy college classload, however I regularly check runescape's updates and forums to keep updated in hopes to someday return.

 

 

 

Never since now have I been so displeased with what Jagex has done. So displeased in fact that if these updates are to remain unchanged, there is no doubt that I will never return Although I do not play, my years of experience with this game allows me to understand how updates such as these would impact the game. I have taken numerous economics classes during my 3 years of college and after reading through Jagex's recent updates I have found many connections with them and real world values. Allow me to explain.

 

 

 

First we begin with the Grand Exchange:

 

 

 

The grand exchange can be compared to a communist economy. You've heard this before but I will explain why, and why it is surpassed by a socialist economy. The grand exchange works through central planning, in other words the "government" or "Jagex in this case" decides the range of price. In a real communist economy the government would also plan the "amount" or "quanity" of the item that would be sold, this does not apply to runescape however.

 

 

 

Now lets look at the problems with this. The foremost problem with communism or a communistic market is the lack of information that the government has. The government can never know how many loaves of bread a town will consume, they can estimate from prior years usage, but the chances of them under or over supplying is huge. Jagex has stated that they will have a team that will monitor and update the grand exchange. This still however will fail to work. People cannot simply plan what the entire population wants, and the price they want to pay for it. They will continously fail at bringing the supply and demand to an equilibrium.

 

 

 

Socialism works in the means of what we would call "natural selection". What this means is that in time, the price of an item will neither be too low, or too high in accordance with supply and demand. Here I will give an example:

 

 

 

Bob decides to sell 1 shark for 750gp to Mark, Mark quickly buys and turns to the next person and easily sells for 1000. Bob witnesses this and realizes that he can make more gp off 1 hark than 750gp. Bob instead tries to sell 1 shark at 1250gp but fails to do so. He then tries to sell at 1000gp and easily succeeds. Do you see what happened here? Both a price to low and to high for 1 shark was weeded out of Bob's personal economy and the 1000gp price was naturally selected. Over time this will encompass the entire economy and the supply and demand will be equilibrium for sharks.

 

 

 

The Grand Exchange however provides 2 problems: Price Ceilings, and Price Floors. Price ceilings are a legally established price that the sellers cannot exceed. A price ceiling above equilibrium price will do nothing, a price ceiling below equilibrium price will cause a shortage. A price floor is a minimum established price that sellers must sell for. A price floor below equilibrium will do nothing, a price ceiling above equilibrium will cause a surplus. Since the Grand Exchange was just recently implemented, I don't think these problems have yet arisen, however in time they most certainly will.

 

 

 

Now lets talk about the wilderness/pking/staking.

 

 

 

This update I just could not even comprehend. The very thing that made runescape unique, was just steamrolled into obvlion. The thing that made runescape unique was for some people, the thrill of defeating others in hopes of great rewards. Unlike other games where you could die 37 times in a day and not lose so much as anything, if you died in runescape it was a very serious matter, especially if you were wearing valuables.

 

 

 

Ok, so now runescape's most unique feature is gone, lets take a look at the far more serious problem this has caused. Some people are skillers, some people are merchants, some people play for fun, however some people have spent countless hours and days of their lives leveling their strength to 99, obtaining the best possible armor for their pures, all in hopes of becoming a great pker/staker. With this update you have officially belittled and vanquished every second that these people have spent achieving their goal.

 

 

 

I think nothing else needs to be said about this, wether you pked or didn't I think anyone with half a brain can feel sympathy for what has happened to people devoted to pking/staking.

 

 

 

Real world Trading:

 

 

 

Ok, lets face the facts. Any mmo game that has the potential to provide others will real world income from playing a game, is going to have real world traders. Lets take a look at the misconceptions and problems associated with these rwt's.

 

 

 

The biggest problem is the assumption that by enforcing these updates Jagex has officially ended rwt. This however is completely false. All Jagex has done is change the method with which these people work. You see now that they can't sell millions of gp, they will instead resort to other methods such as power leveling, or selling accounts. How does Jagex plan to stop this? You can't stop someone from giving a website their information, and an employee from the site leveling a skill of theirs from 1-99. They can also do nothing about the personal non-business oriented rwt's, such as those on private websites that do nothing other than sell and trade accounts associated with runescape and other various mmo's.

 

 

 

You see rwt can never be stopped, Jagex has succeeded in the prevention of selling the gp, at a very high cost in relation to other aspects of the game. They have not and will not however be able to stop the power leveling services and account sellers on private websites. So in the end what was the point in stopping one aspect if you can't stop the others?

 

 

 

Next we look at the view on rwt's. I have heard people complain that it is wrong and the people selling them are poverty stricten foreigners working for slave wages. You are committing the Nirvana Fallacy, which is comparing peoples lives to that of ours in America or in another ideal functioning country. The fact is is that the people working in these conditions, have no where else to go. Those 20 cents they make a day farming rune essences puts food on their familys table. Do they enjoy what they do? Probaly not, however it does not change the fact that its the best thing for them and is getting them through their every day lives.

 

So what has Jagex really done? In an effort to stop people profiting from their precious game, they have actually put thousands of poor people out of jobs. Now instead of sitting a computer clicking, they now have to work in dangerous un-inspected factorys probably making the same or less then when they were working for a runescape gp selling company.

 

 

 

In conclusion these updates have caused far more harm than good. Jagex should seriously consider what they have done, and analyze the consequences of their actions.

[kemikalkadet]

its against the rules to post on behalf of someone else.

[Kyle6203]

By the way, the topic of the post will be- "An overview from a former player". If that cant fit just think of your own creative title that will attract attention. Please post what you have titled the topic here however so that I am able to locate it.

 

 

 

I give much thanks to whoever is willing to post this, and hope dearly that its message will be heard and understood.

[Kill_Life]

Players can't post on behalf of someone else.

 

However, you may post it on our Rants Board :D

 

So I moved it there.

[Kyle6203]

its against the rules to post on behalf of someone else.

 

 

 

Alright then, this post is public, it is not mine, it is whoever wants it and they can use the information on it to post in the rants section. Ty.

[nomadmike]

:anxious: Im a little confused.

 

People keep saying that they started playing when Rs first came out. They say it was 1999 or 2001.

 

 

 

When did Rs go public -.- ?

[Kyle6203]

It may have not been 1999, but I know for a fact I was playing in 2000. I can't remember the exact date I started but I played for around 4 years.

[Pwnz0rzx]

i remember when i played maplestory it was like when you die you lose exp if there was a pking system in maplestory then everybody would go there but... RS has so many skills which makes it cool and... since pking is gone theres really nothing to do but wait it out and hope for a miracle

[Shazarabbit]

Hello, I "was" a long time player of runescape. I played from about 1999- about 5 or 6 months into the release of Runescape 2. I do not play anymore due to a heavy college classload, however I regularly check runescape's updates and forums to keep updated in hopes to someday return.

 

 

 

Do you play the game when you say to check updates? Because if you don't i really don't think you have a place to judge the updates until you do.

 

 

 

Now lets look at the problems with this. The foremost problem with communism or a communistic market is the lack of information that the government has. The government can never know how many loaves of bread a town will consume, they can estimate from prior years usage, but the chances of them under or over supplying is huge. Jagex has stated that they will have a team that will monitor and update the grand exchange. This still however will fail to work. People cannot simply plan what the entire population wants, and the price they want to pay for it. They will continously fail at bringing the supply and demand to an equilibrium.

 

 

 

The monitor system i think works fine, the prices change according to demand. If 140,000 people bought sharks for 748gp each, and 25,050 bought them for 850gp each the "Market Price" changes to what the product is commonly sold as. In no way are Jagex restricting amounts to be sold in the GE which is what i got from the above quote. The prices were almost all were very close to what they should've been. They would always be too high at first but as everyone started to use the Grand Exchange prices began to become a little normal.

 

 

 

The Grand Exchange however provides 2 problems: Price Ceilings, and Price Floors. Price ceilings are a legally established price that the sellers cannot exceed. A price ceiling above equilibrium price will do nothing, a price ceiling below equilibrium price will cause a shortage. A price floor is a minimum established price that sellers must sell for. A price floor below equilibrium will do nothing, a price ceiling above equilibrium will cause a surplus. Since the Grand Exchange was just recently implemented, I don't think these problems have yet arisen, however in time they most certainly will.

 

 

 

I have not done an economics degree, but how is having a Price Equilibrium going to affect anything? Both prices will ALWAYS change, so its never one set price its just set at a minimum and a maximum to stop people from getting scammed. Maybe i misread what you meant if i did im sorry.

 

 

 

Ok, so now runescape's most unique feature is gone, lets take a look at the far more serious problem this has caused. Some people are skillers, some people are merchants, some people play for fun, however some people have spent countless hours and days of their lives leveling their strength to 99, obtaining the best possible armor for their pures, all in hopes of becoming a great pker/staker. With this update you have officially belittled and vanquished every second that these people have spent achieving their goal.

 

 

 

PKing is not gone, it has been replaced with the Bounty Hunter minigame. While i'll admit i prefer the old pking to Bounty Hunter, serious pkers love Bounty Hunter for the danger of it, there is risk such as:

 

 

 

• If you kill someone who isn't your bounty and pick up the drop you cannot leave for 3 minutes.
   
  A skull is shown above your head to show your wealth of the items you are carrying so you can't go in looking like an easy fight when you aren't.
   
  

 

 

 

Alot of people have pushed aside and complained without even trying the updates to their full potential.

 

 

 

The biggest problem is the assumption that by enforcing these updates Jagex has officially ended rwt. This however is completely false. All Jagex has done is change the method with which these people work. You see now that they can't sell millions of gp, they will instead resort to other methods such as power leveling, or selling accounts. How does Jagex plan to stop this? You can't stop someone from giving a website their information, and an employee from the site leveling a skill of theirs from 1-99. They can also do nothing about the personal non-business oriented rwt's, such as those on private websites that do nothing other than sell and trade accounts associated with runescape and other various mmo's.

 

 

 

To be honest i don't think anyone is stupid enough to lend a random person their account details to level to 99 for them. What will they do in the mean time? Also i think Jagex would be able to pick up the IP difference. While yes i've heard alot of high levelled accounts have been sold to RWT since the updates i don't think they'll get far. The fact is as i said no one who has half a brain will give their account details to a random person just to get 99 in a skill.

 

 

 

Next we look at the view on rwt's. I have heard people complain that it is wrong and the people selling them are poverty stricten foreigners working for slave wages. You are committing the Nirvana Fallacy, which is comparing peoples lives to that of ours in America or in another ideal functioning country. The fact is is that the people working in these conditions, have no where else to go. Those 20 cents they make a day farming rune essences puts food on their familys table. Do they enjoy what they do? Probaly not, however it does not change the fact that its the best thing for them and is getting them through their every day lives.

 

So what has Jagex really done? In an effort to stop people profiting from their precious game, they have actually put thousands of poor people out of jobs. Now instead of sitting a computer clicking, they now have to work in dangerous un-inspected factorys probably making the same or less then when they were working for a runescape gp selling company.

 

 

 

 

I think what your doing is generalizing, not everyone who RWT is in a sweatshop type environment as you've described. Honestly, it isn't Jagex's fault that people need to break the set rules of a game just to make a living.

 

 

 

Sure some factories may be dangerous, but there are safety measures to make them safe. They are far more at risk of illness sitting and clicking a mouse for most of the day than they are selling items door to door, or even working in a factory.

 

 

 

So not only have you labeled the game of runescape communist but you are also blaming jagex for taking away the cheating that was against the rules from early on. You blame jagex yet, fail to realize that these people knew they were breaking the rules. If i robbed a convenience store and stole $4000 + supplies would it be okay because I'm poor? Same logic different scenario.

 

 

 

Sorry if I've misread anything.

[Kyle6203]

Do you play the game when you say to check updates? Because if you don't i really don't think you have a place to judge the updates until you do.

 

 

 

I've played the game far long enough to know the basics of the game. As I was combat level 106, with 6 or 7 p hats, and around a 1500 skill total (mind you this was before the introduction of contruction, slayer, and farming). I know that if when I played the game that the max amount of coins I could give away, stake, drop, give to my pure, was 3k I most certainly wouldn't have played the game. I know that if the wilderness was full of revenants that serve no purpose other than to kill people doing clue scrolls (as by seeing from the rs forums is their only purpose) I wouldn't have gone into the wilderness. I know if I couldn't pk by myself and instead had to venture into bounty hunter as I got 3 hit by 9 level 125's I wouldn't have pked. I don't think the addition of a few added quests that required the intelligence of an 12 year old to complete, along with skills that players acquired level 99 in mere weeks is going to interfere with my knowledge of the game. Besides, the changes were made to things I was already familiar with, such as rwt's, the economy, dueling, and pking. It's not like I barged in here ranting about changes made to the construction skill which I have never used.

 

 

 

The monitor system i think works fine, the prices change according to demand. If 140,000 people bought sharks for 748gp each, and 25,050 bought them for 850gp each the "Market Price" changes to what the product is commonly sold as. In no way are Jagex restricting amounts to be sold in the GE which is what i got from the above quote. The prices were almost all were very close to what they should've been. They would always be too high at first but as everyone started to use the Grand Exchange prices began to become a little normal.

 

 

 

What if people were willing to pay 1000 gp but couldn't due to jagex's price ceiling. Instead the prices are low, and people buy alot of them, which causes a shortage because the price ceiling is below equilibrium price. (The price ceiling is the 748 gp in this case). This effect may haven't happened yet because the grand exchange was just implemented, but give it time and it will. This also answers your second question.

 

 

 

Now you say that prices were all close to what they should have been, what exactly have the prices should have been? The prices you wanted them to be? Cheaper that is. Because according to runescapes forums, everything from potions, to logs, to rares, has gone drastically down.

 

 

 

In regard to bounty hunter I don't have to play it to see that I wouldn't like it. I think ill pass on going in there and getting banged by multiple 100's. I prefer a free for all 1v1 most of the time combat that the wilderness offered. From what I saw in the forums the ratio of people that prefered the old pking over bounty hunter is like 99-1 anyway.

 

 

 

To be honest i don't think anyone is stupid enough to lend a random person their account details to level to 99 for them. What will they do in the mean time? Also i think Jagex would be able to pick up the IP difference. While yes i've heard alot of high levelled accounts have been sold to RWT since the updates i don't think they'll get far. The fact is as i said no one who has half a brain will give their account details to a random person just to get 99 in a skill.

 

 

 

Wrong. Do some research on gold selling and power leveling sites and you will find plenty that offer these services and are successful with it. Not just runescape but other popular mmo games. What will they do? I don't know go outside get some fresh air and wait for the farmer to finish what would of taken them weeks in 3 days.

 

 

 

People with half a brain will be able to tell the difference between legitamate and fake power leveling sites. Sites arent going to set up an entire business to steal accounts because word would spread and no one would use their service. If a gold selling site has live support, a professional layout, theres almost a 99% chance that its legitamite, and nothing a simple google search couldn't verify.

 

 

 

I think what your doing is generalizing, not everyone who RWT is in a sweatshop type environment as you've described. Honestly, it isn't Jagex's fault that people need to break the set rules of a game just to make a living.

 

 

 

Sure some factories may be dangerous, but there are safety measures to make them safe. They are far more at risk of illness sitting and clicking a mouse for most of the day than they are selling items door to door, or even working in a factory.

 

 

 

People who make the things for wal-mart live in near unbearable conditions. You mean to tell me that most don't? I don't even know where you came up with the illness part, the fact that you think sitting at a computer is more dangerous than working in an overseas factory is almost preposterous.

 

 

 

 

So not only have you labeled the game of runescape communist but you are also blaming jagex for taking away the cheating that was against the rules from early on. You blame jagex yet, fail to realize that these people knew they were breaking the rules. If i robbed a convenience store and stole $4000 + supplies would it be okay because I'm poor? Same logic different scenario.

 

 

 

 

It being against the rules brings up another point. Why exactly was it against the rules? Jealousy over profits? It's not like these rwt's were gathering the gp, and then disposing of it. It was just shifting posession from one character to the other. It's obvious that Jagex is rich, so why complain about it making other people richer? They claimed they had to eliminate rwt because it would eventually cause the downfall of the game. You know what actually happened? The bots and the population went hand in hand. As the bots increased, the population increased. So I fail to see how it was damaging the game. Second of all, every marginally successful mmo game with tradable currency or items has dealt with rwt and it has never caused the downfall of any of them. The release of new and better games caused their downfall. So fix your [cabbage] Jagex before the same happens to you.

[jackjonson]

 

 

 

The Grand Exchange however provides 2 problems: Price Ceilings, and Price Floors. Price ceilings are a legally established price that the sellers cannot exceed. A price ceiling above equilibrium price will do nothing, a price ceiling below equilibrium price will cause a shortage. A price floor is a minimum established price that sellers must sell for. A price floor below equilibrium will do nothing, a price ceiling above equilibrium will cause a surplus. Since the Grand Exchange was just recently implemented, I don't think these problems have yet arisen, however in time they most certainly will.

 

 

 

I have not done an economics degree, but how is having a Price Equilibrium going to affect anything? Both prices will ALWAYS change, so its never one set price its just set at a minimum and a maximum to stop people from getting scammed. Maybe i misread what you meant if i did im sorry.

 

 

 

 

i will end with an econ degree and while what he said is true, it does not apply here

 

 

 

 

What if people were willing to pay 1000 gp but couldn't due to jagex's price ceiling. Instead the prices are low, and people buy alot of them, which causes a shortage because the price ceiling is below equilibrium price. (The price ceiling is the 748 gp in this case). This effect may haven't happened yet because the grand exchange was just implemented, but give it time and it will. This also answers your second question.

 

 

 

 

you are saying that assuming 748 is a set price. while they are floors/ceilings, they are flexible. and it is not accepted among all economists that floors/ceilings are a bad thing (minimum wage). however, these prices will adjust, if people are willing to pay 1000gp per shark they will be buying in the upper end of the price restrictions increasing the price over time. the GE only restricted the speed at which prices adjust, not their ability over time to adjust.

 

 

 

 

Now you say that prices were all close to what they should have been, what exactly have the prices should have been? The prices you wanted them to be? Cheaper that is. Because according to runescapes forums, everything from potions, to logs, to rares, has gone drastically down.

 

 

 

 

the prices were set fairly close to the fair market value of the items, the fact that these prices have dropped is simple. the demand was left nearly unchanged in the fact that if someone wanted a large amount of sharks, they would buy them through world 2 player to player trading. however the supply was drastically increased from the ease of selling. players are able to sell items while fishing for more shark, which before was impossible to do ingame. your talk of economics makes me feel i do not need to explain the shifts of the curves to you.

 

 

 

in short, the ease of buying was increased by a smaller amount than the ease of selling leading to a drastic surplus of various items, it is not a command economy, it is a mixed economy. granted it leans more towards command than america's economy, it is still a long way away from any type of central economy

[Kyle6203]

Ah I see, I assumed the prices were fixed at a range around what they were at the time. The grand exchange obviously has its benefits with ease of trade. However I think one of two alternatives would of been much better.

 

 

 

1. Have the players set the prices as they please, this would balance out the prices similar to what they were when personal trade happened. I don't know if I can mention it here, but a system similar to WoW's auction house would of been much better. It would also stop items such as rares dropping to rediculously low amounts. How is it fair for someone to have spent countless days saving up to buy a party hat, only it have it devalued by 50-75% 1 update later?

 

 

 

2. Player owned shops, which I have no idea why they weren't put in the game years ago.

[jackjonson]

Ah I see, I assumed the prices were fixed at a range around what they were at the time. The grand exchange obviously has its benefits with ease of trade. However I think one of two alternatives would of been much better.

 

 

 

1. Have the players set the prices as they please, this would balance out the prices similar to what they were when personal trade happened. I don't know if I can mention it here, but a system similar to WoW's auction house would of been much better. It would also stop items such as rares dropping to rediculously low amounts. How is it fair for someone to have spent countless days saving up to buy a party hat, only it have it devalued by 50-75% 1 update later?

 

 

 

2. Player owned shops, which I have no idea why they weren't put in the game years ago.

 

 

 

problems here is it is possible to time trades through a system like the GE, allowing for unbalanced trades still, imagine you put an item worth 1m for sale for 1gp, tell the buyer when to purchase, and you transfer 1m to them. player owned shops decrease the risk because there are much fewer buyers at each shop.

[frankiani]

1. This is pure BS dude, 1st of all, you own 6 or 7 phats, yes, but you got them when the event came out, so they didn't cost you anything, so you can't use that as an argument for saying that you are an experienced player.

 

2. RWT can't die, thats true, but it can be fought, and ppl at jagex are doing just that. Why would anyone have a crew of say.. 15 ppls, ONLY to check the thousands and thousands of player reports, while you can change the game a bit and stop that, stop the gold selling :? the guys at jagex don't do everything for the sake of the game you know, this are their jobs.

 

3. I agree with jagex, RWT MUST BE STOPPED, you think that they just said "omg! i got it! lets do this!!", well NO, they don't work on a kindergarden, and andrew doesn't make all the choices, JAGEX is a gaming company, with ppl reaserching, YES! THEY REASERCH, they knew that this updates were going to be ranted as hell, but they did it, for the reasons the may have.

 

4. Why complain if you only play when big updates come up anyways? stop playing at all and you won't get mad anymore.

 

5. I've said this in another post, PKING is not supossed to be a PROFESSION, thats why ppl are so mad about it, the wilderness was a place were ppl could check who was stronger!

 

6. Anyways, stick around, they will put a new single pvp in the next 6 months or so, you would know that if you read the updates.

 

 

 

/*Frankitoz*/

[deep_pain]

PKing is not gone, it has been replaced with the Bounty Hunter minigame. While i'll admit i prefer the old pking to Bounty Hunter, serious pkers love Bounty Hunter for the danger of it, there is risk such as:

 

 

 

• If you kill someone who isn't your bounty and pick up the drop you cannot leave for 3 minutes.
   
  A skull is shown above your head to show your wealth of the items you are carrying so you can't go in looking like an easy fight when you aren't.
   
  

 

 

 

Alot of people have pushed aside and complained without even trying the updates to their full potential.

 

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of your post.

 

 

 

But after 6 years playing RS, my skill total before this update was a very low 1330. I never really trained any skills unless they were needed to do quests for new weapons etc..

 

 

 

My fishing and cooking levels were entirely from fishing for food and cooking it for use in the wild.

 

 

 

My mellee stats were trained almost exclusively fighting other players in the wild.

 

 

 

I spent I'd guess since I started playing RS 95% of my time either in the wild or fishing/cooking food for PKing.

 

 

 

I think that qualifies me to say that I am a serious PKer, and I hate BH, the majority of my friends list are "serious" PK'ers and none like it.

 

 

 

The only people I know that like it are people who always PK'ed in groups in multi.. although strictly PKing it involves little personal skill at all. I know a few 99's that love it for obvious reasons but they were never PK'ers mainly people I met fishing. I'm not saying BH is bad, it obviously has people who like it. But personally it doesnt represent PKing that I like.. obviously they are bringing out a new solo PKing format, might be good, it might not, I don't expect Jagex to change the game for what was at the time a minority anyway. Probably my PKing days are over, not exactly the worst thing that could happen in life, so altho I've had a few rants. That's life.

 

 

 

But I'm sorry such a sweeping statement as "serious PKers love bounty hunter".. is wrong, maybe some do, but I'd be sure it'd be the minority. Or maybe having spent most of my RS time in the wild, I do not know what non-PKers qualify as a serious PKer.

[Kyle6203]

1. This is pure BS dude, 1st of all, you own 6 or 7 phats, yes, but you got them when the event came out, so they didn't cost you anything, so you can't use that as an argument for saying that you are an experienced player.

 

 

 

Lol and how do you assume to know this? In reality I didn't play the day the christmas crackers dropped, and I never owned a christmas cracker. I did own a white p hat when they were 10k but it was sold before the price inflation. I acquired all of the p hats through merchanting, and none of them were worth below 50 million. I think the blue p hat at the time I had them were worth 90-100 mil.

 

 

 

 

2. RWT can't die, thats true, but it can be fought, and ppl at jagex are doing just that. Why would anyone have a crew of say.. 15 ppls, ONLY to check the thousands and thousands of player reports, while you can change the game a bit and stop that, stop the gold selling :? the guys at jagex don't do everything for the sake of the game you know, this are their jobs.

 

 

 

A crew of 15 people, ahhhh that would explain their customer support :lol: . The fact is they went about rwt the wrong way. They ruined aspects of their game that they and their players have spent years working on. What they should of done is elminate the buyers. They should of implemented a system where unfair trades such as 20 million being given to a level 90 by a level 3 or 10 million being dropped by a level 3 would be flagged and the details sent to jagex. For instance, a screenshot of the act, the chat log of the last 3 minutes, wether or not the person's trading had been on each other's friends list for a while.

 

 

 

The buyers of runescape gold are in fact few. Probably a single digit % of the entire rs population. These are the people that needed to be banned. If you eliminate the demand for the gold traded for real money, no one is going to be left to buy it, hence no gold sellers.

 

 

 

 

3. I agree with jagex, RWT MUST BE STOPPED, you think that they just said "omg! i got it! lets do this!!", well NO, they don't work on a kindergarden, and andrew doesn't make all the choices, JAGEX is a gaming company, with ppl reaserching, YES! THEY REASERCH, they knew that this updates were going to be ranted as hell, but they did it, for the reasons the may have.

 

 

 

 

You should perhaps do some "REASERCH". Seriously I don't even know how to answer number 3. You go from claiming that runescape is more important than kindergarden, to Andrew not making all the choices, to more people doing "reaserch". :wall:

 

 

 

 

4. Why complain if you only play when big updates come up anyways? stop playing at all and you won't get mad anymore.

 

 

 

 

Did you even read my post? I said I don't play at all. I said I couldn't because of me being too busy with college. I'm complaining because if this game remains unchanged after these updates, I would have no incentive to return. Who are you anyway to tell me to stop playing even if I did.

 

 

 

 

5. I've said this in another post, PKING is not supossed to be a PROFESSION, thats why ppl are so mad about it, the wilderness was a place were ppl could check who was stronger!

 

 

 

 

Why are you typing words in capitals as if im not going to see them otherwise? Pking was a profession to some people. Of course they wanted to prove they were stronger but why would you soley do that and not pick up the fallen items to reap your rewards? How is people killing people for profit, any different than players killing monsters from profit. According to your theory nothing dropped from being killed should ever be picked up as the only purpose of doing so is proving you're stronger. Pking wasn't removed because it was considered a profession to some people anyway, so No. 5 is completely irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

6. Anyways, stick around, they will put a new single pvp in the next 6 months or so, you would know that if you read the updates.

 

 

 

 

First you want me to stop playing, and now you want me to stick around. I don't want thrown into another arena fighting a random person that was selected for me to fight. I wan't to be able to kill who I want, when I want, with people I want to kill them with. Jagex's mini games are sad. End of story. We definetly don't need more.

[frankiani]

Lol and how do you assume to know this? In reality I didn't play the day the christmas crackers dropped, and I never owned a christmas cracker. I did own a white p hat when they were 10k but it was sold before the price inflation. I acquired all of the p hats through merchanting, and none of them were worth below 50 million. I think the blue p hat at the time I had them were worth 90-100 mil.

 

 

 

i assumed that cuz you said you play this game since its beginings.. Btw say goodbye to merchanting as well.

 

 

 

The buyers of runescape gold are in fact few. Probably a single digit % of the entire rs population. These are the people that needed to be banned.

 

 

 

Do you know that a good part of rs population were bots and macros?

 

 

 

If you eliminate the demand for the gold traded for real money, no one is going to be left to buy it, hence no gold sellers.

 

 

 

... :-k.. what?

 

 

 

You should perhaps do some "REASERCH". Seriously I don't even know how to answer number 3. You go from claiming that runescape is more important than kindergarden, to Andrew not making all the choices, to more people doing "reaserch".

 

 

 

You didn't know what to awnser because you didn't read it.

 

 

 

Did you even read my post? I said I don't play at all. I said I couldn't because of me being too busy with college. I'm complaining because if this game remains unchanged after these updates, I would have no incentive to return. Who are you anyway to tell me to stop playing even if I did.

 

 

 

Im nobody. Stop playing.

 

 

 

Why are you typing words in capitals as if im not going to see them otherwise?

 

 

 

Because you won't.

 

 

 

How is people killing people for profit, any different than players killing monsters from profit.

 

 

 

Because a monster won't drop 100M coins. A player could as a new way of gold selling.

 

 

 

Pking wasn't removed because it was considered a profession to some people anyway.

 

 

 

I know this, but you complaing about it cuz you do considere pking to be a profession, and it isn't.

 

 

 

First you want me to stop playing, and now you want me to stick around. I don't want thrown into another arena fighting a random person that was selected for me to fight. I wan't to be able to kill who I want, when I want, with people I want to kill them with. Jagex's mini games are sad. End of story. We definetly don't need more.

 

 

 

As i said before, im nobody, stop playing.

[Happysniff]

You couldn't have possibly been playing since 1999. That version was called Devious Mud and was never open to the public, as well as RS2 came out in 2004. rofl :XD:

 

 

 

Other then that you raise some very good points, however with your RWT argument, Jagex did not stop all of it but they stopped the biggest part which was damaging them the most,

[Omali]

 

The buyers of runescape gold are in fact few. Probably a single digit % of the entire rs population. These are the people that needed to be banned. If you eliminate the demand for the gold traded for real money, no one is going to be left to buy it, hence no gold sellers.

 

 

 

 

You realize that a single digit percentage of runescape players would amount in the tens of thousands, correct?

 

 

 

 

Did you even read my post? I said I don't play at all. I said I couldn't because of me being too busy with college. I'm complaining because if this game remains unchanged after these updates, I would have no incentive to return. Who are you anyway to tell me to stop playing even if I did.

 

 

 

 

If you don't play at all, then stop posting on the fansites. Jagex does look here occaisionally, but couldn't care less about the opinion of someone who no longer plays and, as you say, has no intention on it.

 

 

 

 

First you want me to stop playing, and now you want me to stick around. I don't want thrown into another arena fighting a random person that was selected for me to fight. I wan't to be able to kill who I want, when I want, with people I want to kill them with. Jagex's mini games are sad. End of story. We definetly don't need more.

 

 

 

You're using the word "we" incorrectly. You don't play the game, so you're not on the same side even as the players who want it changed back.

 

 

 

You're like the spectator (who happens to have played for one of the two teams at one point, probably from the beginning) who wants the ref thrown out because you think he made a bad call. So you overgeneralize and claim that both teams back up your decision, even though they were sick of you once you quit the team a while back.

[Shazarabbit]

 

 

 

Wrong. Do some research on gold selling and power leveling sites and you will find plenty that offer these services and are successful with it. Not just runescape but other popular mmo games. What will they do? I don't know go outside get some fresh air and wait for the farmer to finish what would of taken them weeks in 3 days.

 

 

 

People with half a brain will be able to tell the difference between legitamate and fake power leveling sites. Sites arent going to set up an entire business to steal accounts because word would spread and no one would use their service. If a gold selling site has live support, a professional layout, theres almost a 99% chance that its legitamite, and nothing a simple google search couldn't verify.

 

 

 

People who make the things for wal-mart live in near unbearable conditions. You mean to tell me that most don't? I don't even know where you came up with the illness part, the fact that you think sitting at a computer is more dangerous than working in an overseas factory is almost preposterous.

 

 

 

It being against the rules brings up another point. Why exactly was it against the rules? Jealousy over profits? It's not like these rwt's were gathering the gp, and then disposing of it. It was just shifting posession from one character to the other. It's obvious that Jagex is rich, so why complain about it making other people richer? They claimed they had to eliminate rwt because it would eventually cause the downfall of the game. You know what actually happened? The bots and the population went hand in hand. As the bots increased, the population increased. So I fail to see how it was damaging the game. Second of all, every marginally successful mmo game with tradable currency or items has dealt with rwt and it has never caused the downfall of any of them. The release of new and better games caused their downfall. So fix your [cabbage] Jagex before the same happens to you.

 

 

 

I don't need to do research on Gold Farming websites or anything for i follow the rules and know what they are. The problem is people don't play the game just for fun they want to be on top and they want to get their fast with very little effort. Even if the website has live support and a professional layout it doesn't mean anything, alot of those free ipod websites tend to have reasonably decent layouts and everything and yet they are still a scam.

 

 

 

I never said that everyone who makes things for these places live in good conditions, but there are much more better ways to make money. As for the illness part there are diseases such as Repetitive Strain Injury & Deep Vein Thrombosis.

 

 

 

As for why it was against the rules I'm sure someone of your intelligence could surely understand why it is against the rules. Jagex don't want someones social standing outside of the game affecting whom they are in the game. The reason it was so damaging is because some players found they weren't getting rewarded for their hard efforts. I never really had a problem with bots but i do understand where people were coming from.

 

 

 

However, i do think you really should try things before you say its broken you might change your opinion on things.

[Kyle6203]

 

I don't need to do research on Gold Farming websites or anything for i follow the rules and know what they are. The problem is people don't play the game just for fun they want to be on top and they want to get their fast with very little effort. Even if the website has live support and a professional layout it doesn't mean anything, alot of those free ipod websites tend to have reasonably decent layouts and everything and yet they are still a scam.

 

 

 

I never said that everyone who makes things for these places live in good conditions, but there are much more better ways to make money. As for the illness part there are diseases such as Repetitive Strain Injury & Deep Vein Thrombosis.

 

 

 

As for why it was against the rules I'm sure someone of your intelligence could surely understand why it is against the rules. Jagex don't want someones social standing outside of the game affecting whom they are in the game. The reason it was so damaging is because some players found they weren't getting rewarded for their hard efforts. I never really had a problem with bots but i do understand where people were coming from.

 

 

 

However, i do think you really should try things before you say its broken you might change your opinion on things.

 

 

 

Researching sites isn't against the rules. Buying their itmes is. How are free ipod sites a scam? They most certainly are not a scam, and if you follow their terms, you will in fact receive a free ipod. Their terms are not a scam, just misleading. You have to pay for a certain number of things such as magazine subscriptions, things such as netflix, etc.. and after you do you receive the ipod.

 

 

 

How do you propose these people make money? It's easy for you to say how easy it is for others to get a real job that makes good money without resorting to things such as gold farming. You sit at your computer which your mom payed for, shes paying for the internet, she pays the power bill which runs your computer, she pays for the house you live in, and she'll most likely (if you go) pay for your college education. Did it ever occur to you that some people are not so fortunate, and have to resort to jobs that recquire little education. I seriously don't think you're in any place to direct people born in poverty sctricten familys where to work.

 

 

 

The process whereby one person becomes richer makes everybody richer. This is actually what rwt has done. Make "everybody" richer. Seriously how many rants were there on the forums complaining about rwt? I visited the section routinely and seriously saw next to 0.... yes 0.... complaints about rwt. I mean seriously, the only annoyance that i've read about rwt was having to log to a different world when there would be a bot chopping yew trees, and in members this was almost non-existant. The day the update thread was posted, there was 48,000 posts complaining about it in mere days. The only reason I can see Jagex doing this is because other people than them were making profits other than themselves. Not even taking into account that rwt was actually promoting more people to play due to the rise of materials and currency circulating in and thriving the economy. Jagex even took on the task of tediously calculating how much gp was produced and inflated over the years of rwt and how much value it was in american dollars (I think it was around 30-40 million dollars). Give me a break. They make 10x that amount and they are crying like babies. Jagex is a bunch of selfish sob's.

 

 

 

I tried the grand exchange today, I don't like being told what I can sell my items for and thats all I need to say about that. I'm not a member anymore so unfortunately I didn't have the pleasure of getting pounded by 30 level 120's oh dear what a loss. I certainly didn't need to venture to the dueling arena to stake a mere 3k, give me a freakin break nothing else even needs said about that.

 

 

 

As to the person informing me that rs wasn't released in '99 thats really quite something. It feels like 10 years since I last played this game. Instead of saying I played in 99' I should of said I played when Bluerose13x was ruler of the universe, that probably would of been a better relation.

[Kyle6203]

 

Lol and how do you assume to know this? In reality I didn't play the day the christmas crackers dropped, and I never owned a christmas cracker. I did own a white p hat when they were 10k but it was sold before the price inflation. I acquired all of the p hats through merchanting, and none of them were worth below 50 million. I think the blue p hat at the time I had them were worth 90-100 mil.

 

 

 

i assumed that cuz you said you play this game since its beginings.. Btw say goodbye to merchanting as well.

 

 

 

The buyers of runescape gold are in fact few. Probably a single digit % of the entire rs population. These are the people that needed to be banned.

 

 

 

Do you know that a good part of rs population were bots and macros?

 

 

 

If you eliminate the demand for the gold traded for real money, no one is going to be left to buy it, hence no gold sellers.

 

 

 

... :-k.. what?

 

 

 

You should perhaps do some "REASERCH". Seriously I don't even know how to answer number 3. You go from claiming that runescape is more important than kindergarden, to Andrew not making all the choices, to more people doing "reaserch".

 

 

 

You didn't know what to awnser because you didn't read it.

 

 

 

Did you even read my post? I said I don't play at all. I said I couldn't because of me being too busy with college. I'm complaining because if this game remains unchanged after these updates, I would have no incentive to return. Who are you anyway to tell me to stop playing even if I did.

 

 

 

Im nobody. Stop playing.

 

 

 

Why are you typing words in capitals as if im not going to see them otherwise?

 

 

 

Because you won't.

 

 

 

How is people killing people for profit, any different than players killing monsters from profit.

 

 

 

Because a monster won't drop 100M coins. A player could as a new way of gold selling.

 

 

 

Pking wasn't removed because it was considered a profession to some people anyway.

 

 

 

I know this, but you complaing about it cuz you do considere pking to be a profession, and it isn't.

 

 

 

First you want me to stop playing, and now you want me to stick around. I don't want thrown into another arena fighting a random person that was selected for me to fight. I wan't to be able to kill who I want, when I want, with people I want to kill them with. Jagex's mini games are sad. End of story. We definetly don't need more.

 

 

 

As i said before, im nobody, stop playing.

 

 

 

 

I also said I played well into the release of rs2. L2R.

 

 

 

I'm sorry for scrambling your brain with my explanation of what would happen to the demand for gold if there were no buyers.

 

 

 

"im nobody, stop playing"? Are you 12? I would highly advise that you avoid all forums as your debating skills are that of a run over squirrel.

 

 

 

Oh no buddy I read it alright, I just didn't feel like consulting my Rosetta Stone in order to comprehend it.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure there is monsters "god wars perhaps?" that drop items worth near or close to 100m.

 

 

 

Where in my multiple paragraphs of posts did I ever state pking was a profession. Although it is. How is a persons goal for killing people in hopes of reward not a proffession. Seriously reading your posts is like listening to the preteen in the back of a car asking "Are we there yet?" 30 times an hour.

[Shazarabbit]

 

You sit at your computer which your mom payed for, shes paying for the internet, she pays the power bill which runs your computer, she pays for the house you live in, and she'll most likely (if you go) pay for your college education. Did it ever occur to you that some people are not so fortunate, and have to resort to jobs that recquire little education. I seriously don't think you're in any place to direct people born in poverty sctricten familys where to work.

 

 

 

Actually you are wrong, i bought this computer myself i worked hard to purchase this. I pay for the internet, i pay rent, i pay for the electricity/water/food and i pay for my own education. I don't rely on my mother for anything. I work Monday - Friday at a place an hour away from where i live. I self support myself. I don't think your in any position to judge me at all, just as i may have over stepped my boundaries with my above post. that still doesn't mean that these people in poverty would be be better off playing a computer game, there are alot of jobs out there for people willing to work for it. You don't need an education to get a half decent job. You just need to be enthusiastic and show initiative.

 

 

 

 

The process whereby one person becomes richer makes everybody richer. This is actually what rwt has done. Make "everybody" richer. Seriously how many rants were there on the forums complaining about rwt? I visited the section routinely and seriously saw next to 0.... yes 0.... complaints about rwt. I mean seriously, the only annoyance that i've read about rwt was having to log to a different world when there would be a bot chopping yew trees, and in members this was almost non-existant. The day the update thread was posted, there was 48,000 posts complaining about it in mere days. The only reason I can see Jagex doing this is because other people than them were making profits other than themselves. Not even taking into account that rwt was actually promoting more people to play due to the rise of materials and currency circulating in and thriving the economy. Jagex even took on the task of tediously calculating how much gp was produced and inflated over the years of rwt and how much value it was in american dollars (I think it was around 30-40 million dollars). Give me a break. They make 10x that amount and they are crying like babies. Jagex is a bunch of selfish sob's.

 

 

 

Have you been on the runescape official forums previously? There used to be rant after rant about RWT. I have no idea how you've missed it. They aren't crying over losing money they want a game where your social status doesn't affect whom you are in game. Shouldn't someone who is not fortunate in real life be entitled to the same chances in game as opposed to someone who relies on daddy's credit card?

 

 

 

 

 

I tried the grand exchange today, I don't like being told what I can sell my items for and thats all I need to say about that. I'm not a member anymore so unfortunately I didn't have the pleasure of getting pounded by 30 level 120's oh dear what a loss. I certainly didn't need to venture to the dueling arena to stake a mere 3k, give me a freakin break nothing else even needs said about that.

 

 

 

Firstly you don't have to use the grand exchange, there are ALOT of people who sell for the prices they want the old way. I agree the staking needs to be fixed, or at least something along the lines of the new trading calculations where it is based on combat level and quest points which i think is fair. But the fact is Jagex will never rid of them, but because of the continuous complaints previously Jagex had to do something about it.

 

 

 

They were called scum for not doing anything, and now that they've done something they are being called scum again they are caught in a lose lose situation. There will always be someone who is unhappy. Unfortunately for them its just the way the cookie crumbles. Just like when you and i disagree it can't be helped.

 

 

 

Have you tried the tournament section of the dueling arena it is possible to win millions from there.

[frankiani]

Dude the things you ask are never gonna happen!!! Wake up!!! Somebody stop this nonsense! Im sorry if you feel that you wanna cry with this updates, im sorry if feel that runescape is over, im sorry if jagex is causing you too much pain in your heart as you never would have wanted changes for a game that you don't play anymore! wake up and smell reality!

 

 

 

I also said I played well into the release of rs2. L2R.

 

 

 

But you don't play anymore. So why would somebody like you make a big deal out of it.

 

 

 

I'm sorry for scrambling your brain with my explanation of what would happen to the demand for gold if there were no buyers.

 

 

 

Im pretty sure you didn't even understood what you said there.

 

 

 

"im nobody, stop playing"? Are you 12? I would highly advise that you avoid all forums as your debating skills are that of a run over squirrel.

 

 

 

Im not 12, thanks for asking. I hope to be as good as you on this debates thing.

 

 

 

Oh no buddy I read it alright, I just didn't feel like consulting my Rosetta Stone in order to comprehend it.

 

 

 

So you actually read without understanding what you are reading? nice going! I suppose you "debate" without understanding whats coming out of your brain.

 

 

 

Where in my multiple paragraphs of posts did I ever state pking was a profession. Although it is. How is a persons goal for killing people in hopes of reward not a proffession. Seriously reading your posts is like listening to the preteen in the back of a car asking "Are we there yet?" 30 times an hour.

 

 

 

There, you said it.

 

Please don't compare me with you again in the future.

 

 

 

*EDITED*

[Kyle6203]

 

Dude the things you ask are never gonna happen!!! Wake up!!! Somebody stop this nonsense! Im sorry if you feel that you wanna cry with this updates, im sorry if feel that runescape is over, im sorry if you mom didn't breastfeeded you as a child, im sorry if jagex is causing you too much pain in your heart as you never would have wanted changes for a game that you don't play anymore! wake up and smell reality!

 

 

 

I also said I played well into the release of rs2. L2R.

 

 

 

But you don't play anymore. So why would somebody like you make a big deal out of it.

 

 

 

I'm sorry for scrambling your brain with my explanation of what would happen to the demand for gold if there were no buyers.

 

 

 

Im pretty sure you didn't even understood what you said there.

 

 

 

"im nobody, stop playing"? Are you 12? I would highly advise that you avoid all forums as your debating skills are that of a run over squirrel.

 

 

 

Im not 12, thanks for asking. I hope to be as good as you on this debates thing.

 

 

 

Oh no buddy I read it alright, I just didn't feel like consulting my Rosetta Stone in order to comprehend it.

 

 

 

So you actually read without understanding what you are reading? nice going! I suppose you "debate" without understanding whats coming out of your brain.

 

 

 

Where in my multiple paragraphs of posts did I ever state pking was a profession. Although it is. How is a persons goal for killing people in hopes of reward not a proffession. Seriously reading your posts is like listening to the preteen in the back of a car asking "Are we there yet?" 30 times an hour.

 

 

 

There, you said it.

 

Please don't compare me with you again in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

Well I was planning on replying to this, but after reading the word "breastfeeded", I think no further comment is necessary.