Israeli Checkpoints: Right or Wrong? (Summaries)

[Cup Lion]

[hide=Articles of Opinion]

Israelis Play Sickening Game of 'Bingo'

 

by Linda Bevis

 

 

 

Going to the Palestinian Territories occupied by Israel for my winter vacation, I never dreamed that I'd be playing bingo. Arriving at a muddy roadblock, I saw 20 Palestinian men crouching in the rain. The Israeli soldiers were taking their time checking every Palestinian ID by telephone.

 

 

 

Occasionally, the soldiers allowed one or two people who approached the roadblock to pass through immediately. Unfortunately, this persuaded more Palestinians to venture up to the roadblock. They had little choice but to try; their three villages were cut off from jobs, hospitals and food in the nearby city of Nablus because the Israelis had built a massive roadblock across their only access road, then surrounded the villages with a deep moat.

 

 

 

In four days of roadblock watch, we found that the vast majority of Palestinians, including men, women and the occasional donkey were stopped and held for two to seven hours.

 

 

 

Younger children or very old or sick people were allowed through with minimal hassle. The soldiers explained, "This is a game of Palestinian Bingo: We gather all the IDs and sometimes we have a 'bingo' and find a terrorist."

 

 

 

Palestinian Bingo was a strategy of detaining an entire population, then sifting through to shake out likely suspects. The soldiers insisted that this racial profiling "is justified by the end result" of occasionally catching someone who might bomb children in Tel Aviv.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the bingo that first day was our friend Omar, who had been confident that any security check (like those in the past) would reveal that he was not "wanted." But that afternoon, the Israeli police said he was wanted (true, or a lie to punish us?) and arrested him. Omar's whereabouts are still unknown.

 

 

 

We visitors from England, the United States and Japan were joining the International Solidarity Movement to End the Occupation because we believed in nonviolence and justice for both Palestinians and Israelis.

 

 

 

Palestinians welcomed us to the roadblock, saying our presence ensured that no one would be beaten or shot. They said we prevented humiliations such as being made to kneel in rainwater. However, they also said that sometimes their punishment was doubled after we left; we promised not to abandon places we began to help.

 

 

 

We witnessed various power games. One captain admitted he had hit Palestinians and he seemed most rigid about making the detained men squat silently, handcuffing any who attempted to speak. Late one night, only one detainee was left but a captain would not let him go. The captain told us "because of you. You push too much. If not for you, this man would be gone." We had pushed our political discussion too far; this last detainee had paid the price.

 

 

 

Would it help if we stepped back? He nodded and we stepped away. Minutes later, this last detainee was freed.

 

 

 

It was heartening to watch Palestinians approach soldiers as human beings. 'Assem, a high school counselor, spoke to the soldiers: "Tell me, human to human, what is the solution? Our village is cut off; our people are hungry, our animals are starving, we cannot get to our jobs, the hospital. What's the solution? If you tell me, I'll try to do it. Tell me, not as a soldier, but as a human, what should we do?"

 

 

 

Haithem, another Palestinian, said: "I didn't try to sneak across the fields or climb over some mountain. I came to you, to this checkpoint. Please, let me go to my job in Nablus, or let me go home to care for my two girls."

 

 

 

Every day that a Palestinian survives is a day of non-violent resistance to the occupation, an occupation trying to make Palestinians give up. Some soldiers were kind. One allowed Palestinians to complete unloading animal feed across the roadblock while the police checked IDs. Others allowed the detainees to build a fire, gave a canteen of water to a Muslim for prayer, and allowed some women to pass the roadblock without security checks.

 

 

 

Late each afternoon, the IDs that took "so long" to check were returned, whether they'd been taken seven hours or one hour before. Were the soldiers tired of standing in the rain, guarding girls and soggy donkeys, or tired of us and our calls to human rights organization?

 

 

 

The only clear fact was that it didn't take a long time to check IDs; if the soldiers only wanted to check them, the process could take less than 10 minutes per person. Even though one captain claimed he was not doing this to "humiliate," that he was "just following orders," his Palestinian Bingo game was collectively humiliating.

 

 

 

And it was starving the people of three small villages -- a group of courageous people retaining dignity and community while trying to survive.

 

 

 

Versus

 

 

 

Israeli checkpoints protect lives

 

 

 

MARK SMILOWITZ

 

GUEST COLUMNIST

 

 

 

There's a new trend among some human rights activists: Find people risking their necks to save the lives of innocents and harass them.

 

 

 

In "Israelis play sickening game of 'Bingo' " (Feb. 7), local high school teacher Linda Bevis writes of her group's attempts in Palestinian villages to disrupt Israeli soldiers stationed at a checkpoint established to stop terrorists from infiltrating Israel. She claims to support Palestinian "non-violent resistance."

 

 

 

Perhaps Bevis doesn't know that Israel endured 283 Palestinian terrorist attacks in the past three weeks, according to the Israeli Defense Forces. That's an average of 13 a day. You didn't read about most of them because the IDF stopped them before they became bloody enough to be newsworthy.

 

 

 

When I visited a small Israeli town more than a year ago, inhabitants described feeling trapped because Israeli cars on the road to Jerusalem were frequently shot at by Palestinian snipers, causing many deaths. One friend showed me the child-size bulletproof vests his kids donned every time they made the 20-minute trip into town.

 

 

 

It's not enough that these activists are stopping Israel from protecting its citizens. They outright support suicide bombings. Bevis is described as an "active member of ISM Seattle." Visit the International Solidarity Movement Web site and read, "We recognize the Palestinian right to resist Israeli violence and occupation via armed struggle," i.e., suicide bombings and shootings that target civilians.

 

 

 

Human rights activists should deplore all acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. Although I support Israel, I, along with a majority of Jews and Israelis, unequivocally condemned the atypical terrorist attack by Israeli Baruch Goldstein against Arabs at prayer in 1994.

 

 

 

Why do these activists support terrorism?

 

 

 

Perhaps they fail to understand that there are actually three groups involved in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The Israelis want nothing more than to live and let live, but find themselves under constant attack. The Palestinian leadership, be it the PA or the terrorist groups Hamas, Islamic Jihad and their ilk, want nothing less than to rid the Middle East of the Jewish state and build their own nation where Israel had once been. And then there are the suffering Palestinian villagers who are caught in the middle.

 

 

 

Israel is not to blame for their suffering. No one has tried harder to end the Israeli military presence in these Palestinian areas than Israel itself.

 

 

 

Israel's first attempt to give up control of those territories in 1967 was met with the Arabs' three nos: no negotiations with Israel, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel. Another attempt began in 1993 when partial control was given to the Palestinians. When Israel offered complete control in 2000 along with other historic concessions, Yasser Arafat stormed out of negotiations and launched the current Palestinian uprising that has claimed more than 1,000 lives.

 

 

 

Today, Palestinian terrorists routinely use Palestinian towns and villages to stake their operations, build their bomb factories and train their warriors, effectively using Palestinian civilians as human shields to protect their militant activities. Meir Grashin, a Seattle native who served in the IDF last year, reports how his unit was forbidden to stop Palestinians firing mortars at an Israeli kindergarten because the terrorists were stationed in a Palestinian orphanage.

 

 

 

These human rights groups are correct to want to protect Palestinian innocents, but they seem to forget that the cause of their suffering is the unrealistic dreams of the would-be destroyers of Israel.

 

 

 

It is pointless to try to deter Israeli soldiers who think they are the only obstacle in the way of a massive suicide bombing inside their country.

 

 

 

I studied in a yeshiva (Jewish religious school) in Israel that combined army service with intensive Torah study. Students were trained to treat all life as sacred, even an enemy's life. The only reason Bevis is alive today after facing down soldiers in a war is the extreme sensitivity Israelis have toward human life.

 

 

 

So here's my proposal: All activists who care about the Palestinians, change your tactics. Instead of bothering Israeli soldiers, give the Palestinians the courage to stand up to their own leadership. Persuade them to oust Arafat and to retrieve the millions of dollars in aid that he pocketed while his people languished. Tell them to deny the terrorists access to their homes and villages. Help them take back mosques and schools from preachers of hatred and anti-Semitism. If you're feeling really brave, go to Syria and host a sit-in at Hamas headquarters.

 

 

 

This is not an easy task. Polls show that 63 percent of the Palestinians support suicide bombings. Also, you may get shot at. But that kind of thing doesn't seem to bother you.

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

Have a feeling no one will read both articles, so I will briefly describe each.

 

 

 

The first article, written by Linda Bevis, emphasizes the negatives of what is happening at Israeli checkpoints. She mentions instances in which their traveling group witnessed maltreatment of Palestinian travelers trying to get to their jobs. She says that checking the ID of a Palestinian takes less than 10 minutes, while the soldiers at the checkpoints take a few hours. In her opinion, the soldiers are doing this on purpose in order to make the lives of the Palestinians as difficult as possible.

 

 

 

On the other hand, Mark Swilowitz, who wrote the second article in response to Lindas commentary, believes that the checkpoints are necessary in order to keep order in cities. They prevent terrorism from erupting, and the terrorism that does errupt is usually quelled before it is bad enough to "make it into the news". His whole argument is pretty much that, if the Palestinians are angered by the checkpoints, they have no one to blame but their own government. Three groups, not two, exist in the conflict: Israelis, the Palestinian government, and the Palestinian civilians. If the Palestinians civilians, who are stuck in the middle of the two warring groups, want a change, they must stand up as a people and deal with their own government.

 

 

 

So...

 

In your opinion, should these Chechpoints exist? Discuss.

[Satenza]

The stringent checks are sometimes quite ridiculous. I am sure it is to interupt their day since I have seen reporters documenting some of this where the Israeli soliders made it their priority to disrupt even peasents attempting to grow crops over the lines of another invisible boarder. On the otherhand, such measures are perhaps worthwhile if it means Israel does not once again effectivley starve and destroy the palestinian citizens while shelling them with rockets knowing full well they have little more than a few rusted AK-47's.

[Defender2516]

I read both articles fully and I completely agree with the 2nd.

 

 

 

The first article is pure BS. Its as if the writer only values arab life. You know kids can lose limbs and lifes in Isreal when a rocket comes crashing down into their homes, but who cares, getting to your job is more important.

 

 

 

Its no news to anyone that Isreal is constantly being pounded by rockets everyday. What if your country was suffering from rocket attack EVERYDAY?

 

 

 

I know if the USA was getting attacked by rockets, we would have invaded the attacks the VERY FIRST day and ended this non-sense. Apparently for "peace" though, Isreal sets up check-points. Its gotten to the point where now the rockets can reach further into Isreal and kill inocent civilians.

 

 

 

If you truely value life, you will value all life rather than one side or race. Thats why I hate the first article because it acts as if Isreal is some brutish nation doing this just for the hell of it when really its the simple fact they are defending their own nation.

[Satenza]

So some mortar rounds from minority extremists in Palestein warrants the indiscriminate shelling and bombardment Israel likes to throw around? Israel has caused over 1000 deaths, 6000 injuries of Palestinians. In extremist attacks from Palestein there have been only 80 odd deaths.

[Quoi_Tu]

I read both articles fully and I completely agree with the 2nd.

 

 

 

The first article is pure BS. Its as if the writer only values arab life. You know kids can lose limbs and lifes in Isreal when a rocket comes crashing down into their homes, but who cares, getting to your job is more important.

 

 

 

Its no news to anyone that Isreal is constantly being pounded by rockets everyday. What if your country was suffering from rocket attack EVERYDAY?

 

 

 

I know if the USA was getting attacked by rockets, we would have invaded the attacks the VERY FIRST day and ended this non-sense. Apparently for "peace" though, Isreal sets up check-points. Its gotten to the point where now the rockets can reach further into Isreal and kill inocent civilians.

 

 

 

If you truely value life, you will value all life rather than one side or race. Thats why I hate the first article because it acts as if Isreal is some brutish nation doing this just for the hell of it when really its the simple fact they are defending their own nation.

 

 

 

To the bolded, Israel has done that seven times, I believe; and those are just the wars. Israel has also made pre-emptive attacks to stop alleged threats. That said, I think what Satenza said sums up my opinion on the situation as well.

[Barihawk]

So some mortar rounds from minority extremists in Palestein warrants the indiscriminate shelling and bombardment Israel likes to throw around? Israel has caused over 1000 deaths, 6000 injuries of Palestinians. In extremist attacks from Palestein there have been only 80 odd deaths.

 

 

 

Such justification is pure idealistic nonsense. Numbers do not matter. What matters is that the rockets are being fired. If we make a numbers game it is easy to take sides. The fact is that we do not live in the world of Israel or Palestine and it is easy to judge living in our relative glass palaces.

[Zonorhc]

Would you rather let everyone through without ID checks?

 

 

 

Unfortunately for those Palestinian villagers, the extremists don't exactly pick static positions to fire their rockets or mortars from, which leads Israel to go after their sources of materiel and manpower.

[Satenza]

So some mortar rounds from minority extremists in Palestein warrants the indiscriminate shelling and bombardment Israel likes to throw around? Israel has caused over 1000 deaths, 6000 injuries of Palestinians. In extremist attacks from Palestein there have been only 80 odd deaths.

 

 

 

Such justification is pure idealistic nonsense. Numbers do not matter. What matters is that the rockets are being fired. If we make a numbers game it is easy to take sides. The fact is that we do not live in the world of Israel or Palestine and it is easy to judge living in our relative glass palaces.

 

 

 

What am I justifying? I certainly am not justifying attacks from extremist Palestinians. I certainly am not justifying Israel cutting off the petrol, cutting off the water, cutting off the electricity and starving the hospitals of supplies while responding with force ten time the force that is delivered to them. Sometimes not even a direct response to an attack but an alleged preemptive one. I find not looking at the statistics idealistic nonsense.

[Defender2516]

So some mortar rounds from minority extremists in Palestein warrants the indiscriminate shelling and bombardment Israel likes to throw around? Israel has caused over 1000 deaths, 6000 injuries of Palestinians. In extremist attacks from Palestein there have been only 80 odd deaths.

 

 

 

Such justification is pure idealistic nonsense. Numbers do not matter. What matters is that the rockets are being fired. If we make a numbers game it is easy to take sides. The fact is that we do not live in the world of Israel or Palestine and it is easy to judge living in our relative glass palaces.

 

 

 

What am I justifying? I certainly am not justifying attacks from extremist Palestinians. I certainly am not justifying Israel cutting off the petrol, cutting off the water, cutting off the electricity and starving the hospitals of supplies while responding with force ten time the force that is delivered to them. Sometimes not even a direct response to an attack but an alleged preemptive one. I find not looking at the statistics idealistic nonsense.

 

 

 

Oh I get it. So its okay for Palistines to go with electricity, get supplies for rockets, lots of food and education for more terrorist training, that way Isreal can still experience more life lost.

 

 

 

How about we not send in the Military? Just let them keep attacking innocent civi's? Let Terrorists have their way?

 

 

 

Once again your playing the number game and only value life on ONE side. While I understand what your saying, Isreal is NOT doing this because they WANT to starve the people, they are doing it because its neccessary for their own national defense. You got to be stupid to sit and do nothing and let your own people die so some guy on a forum can have a ego boost by saying Isreal is evil for trying to stop more of its own population get bombarded by rockets.

 

 

 

 

 

Look at it this way, the Gazastrip WAS owned by Isreal. Isreal decided to give up that land for peace for the PALISTINE PEOPLE. Does that sound like a evil and brutish nation?

 

 

 

Guess what happened, the Palistine people decided to ATTACK Isreal.

 

 

 

It really sucks that their is innocent civi's getting mistreated in Palistine, but if you want to judge by numbers, then you go out of this thread and hop into a Dafar one because THATS where the biggest number if innocents is being killed.

 

 

 

Quit judging by numbers.

[Satenza]

 

Oh I get it. So its okay for Palistines to go with electricity, get supplies for rockets, lots of food and education for more terrorist training, that way Isreal can still experience more life lost.

 

 

 

The homemade rockets are weak and pretty pathetic in comparison to the technology Israel has and uses quite indiscriminately. Israel may have smart bombs but they are clealry controlled by idiots when we look at the death ratio which I believe is about 1:10. The fact Israel effectively blockaded Palestinian boarders and starved the country in an effort of collective punishment for the civilians when it has nothing to do with them is an act of terror and a case of international war crimes.

 

 

 

How about we not send in the Military? Just let them keep attacking innocent civi's? Let Terrorists have their way?

 

 

 

The terrorists are a minority of the population. They are not the government. I in no way promote what this minority are doing but on the other hand I believe that Israel is committing a greater crime when is uses tactics which are akin to acts of terror on a whole different scale.

 

 

Once again your playing the number game and only value life on ONE side. While I understand what your saying, Isreal is NOT doing this because they WANT to starve the people, they are doing it because its neccessary for their own national defense. You got to be stupid to sit and do nothing and let your own people die so some guy on a forum can have a ego boost by saying Isreal is evil for trying to stop more of its own population get bombarded by rockets.

 

 

 

When have I indicated I value only the Palestinian lives? This is a real situation with very real consequences. Looking at the numbers of those killed isn't "playing the number game" its seeing the reality of the situation and the vast gaps between the force of some Palestinians and the Israeli Army. I agree that the lives are equal. But 1200+ lives is not equal to 80 something.

 

 

It really sucks that their is innocent civi's getting mistreated in Palistine, but if you want to judge by numbers, then you go out of this thread and hop into a Dafar one because THATS where the biggest number if innocents is being killed.

 

 

 

This isnt relevant.

[jackattack]

The terrorists are a minority of the population. They are not the government. I in no way promote what this minority are doing but on the other hand I believe that Israel is committing a greater crime when is uses tactics which are akin to acts of terror on a whole different scale.

 

 

 

What are you talking about? They ARE the government. Hamas controls gaza. #-o

[1_man_army]

The terrorists are a minority of the population. They are not the government. I in no way promote what this minority are doing but on the other hand I believe that Israel is committing a greater crime when is uses tactics which are akin to acts of terror on a whole different scale.

 

 

 

What are you talking about? They ARE the government. Hamas controls gaza. #-o

 

 

 

Hamas being elected is a consequence of people being both; people being disillusioned with Fatah and more importantly, being upset at the way they are treated by Israel. If you upset any group of people enough you can drive them towards supporting extremists.

 

 

 

What I find funny about the election of Hamas is that America & Britain promote democracy but when that same democracy is used to elect somebody they don't like they threaten to cut funding to the Palestinian Authority.

[Lenticular_J]

The terrorists are a minority of the population. They are not the government. I in no way promote what this minority are doing but on the other hand I believe that Israel is committing a greater crime when is uses tactics which are akin to acts of terror on a whole different scale.

 

 

 

What are you talking about? They ARE the government. Hamas controls gaza. #-o

 

 

 

Hamas being elected is a consequence of people being both; people being disillusioned with Fatah and more importantly, being upset at the way they are treated by Israel. If you upset any group of people enough you can drive them towards supporting extremists.

 

 

 

What I find funny about the election of Hamas is that America & Britain promote democracy but when that same democracy is used to elect somebody they don't like they threaten to cut funding to the Palestinian Authority.

 

Well, when the "somebody they don't like" is quite ready to attack Israel, one of the United States' and Britain's greatest allies, I would prepare to cut funding as well. As to the discussion of how Israel responds with greater force, of course they would. War isn't a game that has rules. If they're getting hit with SCUDs, I'd expect them to hit back harder. Numbers don't matter.

 

 

 

I prefer not to really take either side. There are much more than three sides to the conflict. There are people on both sides who disagree as well as agree with what's happening. I can only debate from information I hear from the media or articles such as these, which, in this world, are surely completely biased. So I have very little to go on, considering I don't live in Israel or Palestine, and don't understand the two-thousand year old issues that stem hatred between the two nations.

[Satenza]

The terrorists are a minority of the population. They are not the government. I in no way promote what this minority are doing but on the other hand I believe that Israel is committing a greater crime when is uses tactics which are akin to acts of terror on a whole different scale.

 

 

 

What are you talking about? They ARE the government. Hamas controls gaza. #-o

 

 

 

Hamas condones rocket attacks on Israel only in response to action on Palestine. They however certainly do not take responsibility for the vast majority of them. Infact Hamas have offered a ceasefire with Israel in return for the Palestinian land Israel has occupied since the six-day war subject to a referendum in those areas. This ceasefire agreement Israel is yet to respond too. I do not support Hamas by any stretch of the imagination, but we have to look at the reasons as to why an extremist government were elected in the first place. As pointed out by the above poster, it is due really to the failings of the previous government and of Israeli actions.

[1_man_army]

 

Well, when the "somebody they don't like" is quite ready to attack Israel, one of the United States' and Britain's greatest allies, I would prepare to cut funding as well.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't condone what Hamas does or what they promote, I just admire the irony in the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

Off Topic - I keep getting the message; "You may embed only 3 quotes within each other" eventhough I'm using the hide option for the embedded quotes. This rule could be a real pain unless you're able to use the [hide] to bypass it.

[Cup Lion]

Hamas condones rocket attacks on Israel but certainly do not take responsibility for most of them. Infact Hamas have offered a ceasefire with Israel in return for the Palestinian land Israel has occupied since the six-day war subject to a referendum in those areas. This ceasefire agreement Israel is yet to respond too. I do not support Hamas by any stretch of the imagination, but we have to look at the reasons as to why an extremist government were elected in the first place. As pointed out by the above poster, it is due really to the failings of the previous government and of Israeli actions.

 

What I find interesting is that Israel has attempted to make peace with Palestinians quite a few times through acts and such:

 

 

 

Israel's first attempt to give up control of those territories in 1967 was met with the Arabs' three nos: no negotiations with Israel, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel. Another attempt began in 1993 when partial control was given to the Palestinians. When Israel offered complete control in 2000 along with other historic concessions, Yasser Arafat stormed out of negotiations and launched the current Palestinian uprising that has claimed more than 1,000 lives.

 

 

 

And yet, the Palestinians go on and elect the Hamas as an extremist government, who, in fact, are partially to blame for the checkpoints, since their terrorists are the ones being watched out for at the Israeli Checkpoints. Additionally, in the above quote, Israel was in the process of passing acts in which land was given back to Palestinians, but the acts were refused by the Arabs. Now, the Hamas decides to ceasefire for land?

 

 

 

Satenza, I'd like to see the article that talks about the ceasefire between the Hamas and Israel, if you wouldn't mind. :)

[Satenza]

Thats true, but since then Hamas have rectified a number of issues which were the reasons for not accepting those concessions. Heres an article from the BBC.

[Cup Lion]

Thats true, but since then Hamas have rectified a number of issues which were the reasons for not accepting those concessions. Heres an article from the BBC.

 

I read the article, and it seems like the Hamas not only want a ceasefire, but also a lot of the land that is under Israeli control. But this is a difficult thing to give away, since the conflict started is pretty much over land and who has the right to it. The conflict started because Israeli settled in Jerusalem and in the surrounding territories, and the Palestinians did not like this. They see the land as their holy land, even though three or so major religions hold Jerusalem as a very sacred place. Giving up this land and taking settlers out of it would put Israel right back to the beginning. Israel wants a part of the holy land, and it seems to me like the Palestinians won't have that.

[Robert_de_Sable]

Better a thousand innocent people be held up in line for seven hours than a terrorist end twenty lives.

[Cup Lion]

Better a thousand innocent people be held up in line for seven hours than a terrorist end twenty lives.

 

The unfortunate thing is, do the people actually need to be held up for seven hours? The first author says it takes only 10 minutes to check each ID. The second points out that they are dealing with innocent peoples' lives, and are taking extreme caution.

 

 

 

Who to believe?

[Defender2516]

Better a thousand innocent people be held up in line for seven hours than a terrorist end twenty lives.

 

The unfortunate thing is, do the people actually need to be held up for seven hours? The first author says it takes only 10 minutes to check each ID. The second points out that they are dealing with innocent peoples' lives, and are taking extreme caution.

 

 

 

Who to believe?

 

 

 

I bet you 1 million dollars that if a terrorist got through and just happened to bomb your family because they got a convient/quick checkpoint crossing, you would support the 7 hour long wait.

 

 

 

America is too dam stupid. We want things quick and fast and at a convience. Yet when lives are at stake, there is no such thing as quick and easy. I can't see why a few people here thinks this is like a traffic jam in America. Over there, someones going to die if its not done right, over here, you just get yelled at by your boss.

 

 

 

Some people on here talk as if you could negotiate with a terrorist. I'm suprised that most people don't see the fact that all Hamas and all the other Arabs want to do is blow up Isreal, which they have claimed many times. The claim for land is a offensive measure, not for peace, they literally have no intention for it.

 

 

 

If Hamas can't control Gaza, what makes Isreal or anyone who has intelligence think that he could control a great larger portion of owned Isreal Land, which will result in more terrorist attacks and staging points from those areas, causing more casualties on both sides, because Isreal would obviously go on a all out offensive.

 

 

 

I could care less if you want to be "considered right" in your own mind that Isreal is wrong and Palistines are completely 100% right when it comes to negoiate for peace. You don't negotiate with those who vow to kill you and every last one of your family members intill your oblierated off the map.

 

 

 

The core issue is the fact that its not about hating the jews for land, its just simpley hating the jews for being jews. And that, you cannot give any amount of land for peace.

[Satenza]

I'm suprised that most people don't see the fact that all Hamas and all the other Arabs want to do is blow up Isreal

 

 

 

What are you talking about? Saying you beleive that all Arabic people want to blow up Israel is bordering on racism, which you seem to do quite a lot of.

 

 

 

Regardless of your frankly insulting post, another ceasefire was called today between Hamas and Israel that should last up to six months. According to the Guardian, in the first 72 hours there will be a halt on fighting from both sides, afterwards there will be an easing on the blockades in order to allow supplies through. If that goes steady for a week then there will be less restrictions at commercial crossing points. Hopefully a peaceful ceasefire will allow Fatah and Hamas to reconcile their differences and create a climate of true negotiation between Palestine and Israel.

[Cup Lion]

I bet you 1 million dollars that if a terrorist got through and just happened to bomb your family because they got a convient/quick checkpoint crossing, you would support the 7 hour long wait.

 

 

 

I am pretty sure anyone would support the 7 hour wait in that circumstance. You prove no point, seeing as I was simply stating that it apparently takes around 10 minutes to efficiently check an ID and clear a person at a Checkpoint. My question still stands: are the hours it takes to check an ID really necessary, or is it an act of hatred by the Israelis toward the Palestinians.

 

 

 

I could care less if you want to be "considered right" in your own mind that Isreal is wrong and Palistines are completely 100% right when it comes to negoiate for peace. You don't negotiate with those who vow to kill you and every last one of your family members intill your oblierated off the map.

 

I am trying to be as neutral on the subject as possible, so I really don't know how you can say that I considered it right in my "own mind that Israel is wrong and Palestinians are completely 100% right when it comes to negoiate for peace."

 

 

 

Quite a biased post, if you ask me.

[warri0r45]

I don't know that much about the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts so this is only assuming the broad accounts in each story have a grain of truth to them. The two articles obviously sound like they present a one sided view of the issue (the first article depicting the Israeli soldiers as vicious armed thugs and Mark Smilowitz calling Linda Bevis a terrorist supporter) but Ill just ignore that for now.

 

 

 

It seems that there are disadvantaged people (namely civilians) on both sides of the conflict who just want to get on with their lives. If the checkpoints limit terrorism from Hamas extremists, then holding up civilians would be a necessary evil. However I don't agree with the Israeli soldiers being heavy handed and treating Palestinian people with contempt, if that is indeed the case.