Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol

[ember3579]

Oil spills are not a reason not to drill. They can do it in an environmentally safe way. Oil tankers spill 33 times more oil than platforms. So we'd be spilling less oil by drilling than by importing oil.

 

 

 

Any oil arriving from Alaska will be from oil tankers.

 

Not all, not even close to all. There are plenty of trucking companies that drive the oil cross-country.

 

 

 

Hydro power is impossible if you don't have water in the first place, such is the problem with my area.

 

 

 

*points at the ocean* See that? That huge, blue thing made of water? That covers over 70% of the planet, bub. We figure out a way to take advantage of that WITHOUT screwing over the local wildlife, and we're pretty much set for electrical purposes.

 

 

 

Oh, and jack? I know that you love your Almighty Oil and think that blasphemers against the holy Exxon and Shell companies should burn in Hell, but just keep in mind 2 things.

 

 

 

One, it WILL run out eventually. We need to figure out a way to make our own energy from what we have access to which doesn't screw over the environment (We want the planet to last long enough so that we can at least get off of it, right?), or it's back to the stone age for future generations when it runs out.

 

 

 

Two, just where do you plan on getting oil for when we DO start trying to get to other planets? If I don't miss my guess, I'd say that it would require a great deal more than is on this lump of rock we call Earth to get to the nearest POTENTIALLY habitable planet (20 light years, according to some scientists), let alone sustain life on the same shuttle. If we can't recharge the batteries on the shuttle we're on (or whatever vehicle we use), we're basically screwed.

 

 

 

Thank you.

[jackattack]

^^ I know it will run out eventually but probably not anytime soon. Do you honestly think that in 50 or 100 years cars will still run on gas? Just in the last eight years look at the advances we have made.

 

 

 

And kranked1: The expected increase should be .3 degrees. People who say the earth will warm 5 degrees by 2100 are just guessing with positive feedbacks when it is probably more likely that there are negative feedbacks.

[RichieMcD]

 

 

 

And kranked1: The expected increase should be .3 degrees. People who say the earth will warm 5 degrees by 2100 are just guessing with positive feedbacks when it is probably more likely that there are negative feedbacks.

 

 

 

Find me a source then on this .3 theory, considering the world's heat has risen by 1 degree in the last 20 years and the release of Greenhouse gases is currently booming I would much more believe the 5 degree theory than the .3 theory.

 

 

 

The people who created the .3 theory are guessing just as much as the 5 degree theory, no one actually knows till 2100 comes along and we're all [bleep]ed.

[bloodyhatchetbear]

So because there is a small chance of a spill we should just give up on energy independence and continue paying $4 a gallon gas?

 

 

 

 

No we should move away from short-term solutions and start looking at long-term, cleaner and renewable energy sources. We're just going to screw the world up more if we keep using Oil. Also 4 dollars a gallon is quite cheap when compared to other countries, be happy you only pay 4 dollars.

 

 

 

Even if a spill doesn't occur a [cabbage] load of Co2 is released into the air furthering the effects of global warming, shouldn't we consider the future world I.E our children, their children etc in these choices as these choices essentially decide what their world will be like.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, if you think about it, 10 years ago it was less than half the price it is now. That would be the reason we Americans complain about the gas prices.

 

 

 

On another note, This would be a RENEWABLE resource, with less carbon emissions than that of the oil we currently use. Also, we wouldn't be using new crops, it would be waste, such as wood chips, corn stalks, and other things that usually just get tossed or set aside. Why not see where this new technology is headed? It may only be a temporary solution until we get better technology for "greener" ways of travel, but it's better than what it is now.

 

 

 

[RichieMcD]

So because there is a small chance of a spill we should just give up on energy independence and continue paying $4 a gallon gas?

 

 

 

 

No we should move away from short-term solutions and start looking at long-term, cleaner and renewable energy sources. We're just going to screw the world up more if we keep using Oil. Also 4 dollars a gallon is quite cheap when compared to other countries, be happy you only pay 4 dollars.

 

 

 

Even if a spill doesn't occur a [cabbage] load of Co2 is released into the air furthering the effects of global warming, shouldn't we consider the future world I.E our children, their children etc in these choices as these choices essentially decide what their world will be like.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, if you think about it, 10 years ago it was less than half the price it is now. That would be the reason we Americans complain about the gas prices.

 

 

 

On another note, This would be a RENEWABLE resource, with less carbon emissions than that of the oil we currently use. Also, we wouldn't be using new crops, it would be waste, such as wood chips, corn stalks, and other things that usually just get tossed or set aside. Why not see where this new technology is headed? It may only be a temporary solution until we get better technology for "greener" ways of travel, but it's better than what it is now.

 

 

 

First of all, please don't ever write in such an annoying colored font again.

 

 

 

Oil in America is still cheap. Many countries in Europe are paying close to 8-10 Dollars a gallon, you're getting it cheap. But then again it could be the good ol' stereotype that you all love your stupid, gas guzzling SUV's so that's where the actual cost adds up. By saying "we americans" it sounds like you're being victimized by the Oil companies such as Shell and others, you're not the only country with Oil problems. :roll:

 

 

 

Either way those bugs are releasing carbon, and if you read my post you would realise I was talking about Jack's idea of just finding more Oil and using that. The bugs are a good idea but they haven't even been proven as a viable replacement yet.

[bloodyhatchetbear]

 

First of all, please don't ever write in such an annoying colored font again.

 

 

 

Oil in America is still cheap. Many countries in Europe are paying close to 8-10 Dollars a gallon, you're getting it cheap. But then again it could be the good ol' stereotype that you all love your stupid, gas guzzling SUV's so that's where the actual cost adds up. By saying "we americans" it sounds like you're being victimized by the Oil companies such as Shell and others, you're not the only country with Oil problems. :roll:

 

 

 

Either way those bugs are releasing carbon, and if you read my post you would realise I was talking about Jack's idea of just finding more Oil and using that. The bugs are a good idea but they haven't even been proven as a viable replacement yet.

 

 

 

I will continue to type in any color I choose, unless I am told not to by a mod.

 

 

 

Secondly, not all of us in America choose cars because they are SUV's. In fact, I despise SUV's simply for that fact. But when you are already on a tight budget, and the gas prices soar, you are gonna hurt, no matter what car you drive.

 

 

 

[jackattack]

 

 

 

And kranked1: The expected increase should be .3 degrees. People who say the earth will warm 5 degrees by 2100 are just guessing with positive feedbacks when it is probably more likely that there are negative feedbacks.

 

 

 

Find me a source then on this .3 theory, considering the world's heat has risen by 1 degree in the last 20 years and the release of Greenhouse gases is currently booming I would much more believe the 5 degree theory than the .3 theory.

 

 

 

The people who created the .3 theory are guessing just as much as the 5 degree theory, no one actually knows till 2100 comes along and we're all [bleep].

 

 

 

The earth has not warmed 1 degree in the last 20 years. It has risen .8 degrees since 1880.

 

 

 

Stephen Schwartz of the Brookhaven National Laboratory, Heat Capacity, Time Constant, And Sensitivity of Earth's Climate System It was accepted for publication in Journal of Geophysical Research

 

 

 

EDIT: Schwartz finds that climate sensitivity to doubling co2 is 1.1 degrees. Since .8 degrees has already happened you do the math.

[Nero]

The thing I don't like about drilling in ANWR is that any oil spills or frak ups are going to affect Canadian land just as much as American.

[RichieMcD]

 

First of all, please don't ever write in such an annoying colored font again.

 

 

 

Oil in America is still cheap. Many countries in Europe are paying close to 8-10 Dollars a gallon, you're getting it cheap. But then again it could be the good ol' stereotype that you all love your stupid, gas guzzling SUV's so that's where the actual cost adds up. By saying "we americans" it sounds like you're being victimized by the Oil companies such as Shell and others, you're not the only country with Oil problems. :roll:

 

 

 

Either way those bugs are releasing carbon, and if you read my post you would realise I was talking about Jack's idea of just finding more Oil and using that. The bugs are a good idea but they haven't even been proven as a viable replacement yet.

 

 

 

I will continue to type in any color I choose, unless I am told not to by a mod.

 

 

 

Secondly, not all of us in America choose cars because they are SUV's. In fact, I despise SUV's simply for that fact. But when you are already on a tight budget, and the gas prices soar, you are gonna hurt, no matter what car you drive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1.

Spamming includes posting entire messages using excessive formatting

I.E posting in all caps or irritating font color.

 

 

 

2. You could have gas prices a lot worse, if you're already on a tight budget there is many solutions to it I.E car-pooling or public transport.

[Laikrob]

What he said. ^

 

 

 

Please take into consideration that most colours are hard to read on at least one forum skin, and don't write long/whole posts in colours. It's because we want to be strict, but because we want everybody to be able to read your posts easily. :)

 

 

 

Laikrob,

 

Tip.It Moderator.

[Lenin64]

^^ I know it will run out eventually but probably not anytime soon.

 

Ok, so does that mean we shouldn't start now?

 

 

 

Do you honestly think that in 50 or 100 years cars will still run on gas? Just in the last eight years look at the advances we have made.

 

Exactly, if we made so many advances why do we need to start drilling for oil that we might not need in places that would be a bad idea for wildlife?

[jackattack]

We do need the oil look at the price of gas. They would drill on such a small area of land and they can do it in an environmentally safe way. How many of the oil rigs in the gulf of mexico spilled oil during katrina?

[Lenin64]

But that's what bugs are for, so that we don't need to drill.

[jackattack]

I know I never said don't pursue the bugs but we don't know how long it will take or if it will even turn out to be feasible. It's not worth risking the whole economy on it. Instead of being at the mercy of opec we should drill in the U.S. Even without drilling we could have well over 1 trillion barrels of oil from shale. Or if we turned our coal into oil we would have 4 times the reserves of saudi arabia.

[Lenin64]

Ah, I see now. Although still, coal->oil doesn't go so well.

[jackattack]

Why? We can do coal to oil for something like $35 a barrel.

[bloodyhatchetbear]

 

 

 

1.

Spamming includes posting entire messages using excessive formatting

I.E posting in all caps or irritating font color.

 

 

 

2. You could have gas prices a lot worse, if you're already on a tight budget there is many solutions to it I.E car-pooling or public transport.

 

 

 

Now that I have been told by a mod, I will not use that color

 

 

 

Second, Where I live public transportation is not an option, and no one lives near me to carpool with. Those options are not available to all people. That's something you would have to think about as well.

[ember3579]

I personally think that sticking to oil-based fueling (things that use stuff similar to the natural oil) isn't too good in the long run, but it's good for now. I've always had a liking of electrical power,myself. You can get it in many different ways, and it's not very hard to convert it into motion if you try. Currently, there's only 2 problems with that.

 

 

 

1) The batteries not only are considerably low in maximum power storage, but also are a beast to recharge. The current setup is alright for short-range driving, but there needs to be improvements to use it for almost anything else. If it weren't for the fact that oil companies like to use their leverage too much, we'd already have more than capable batteries.

 

 

 

2) Finding the proper source of the energy needed is going to be a major pain. Coal isn't one of the best things for this (keep in mind I live in West Virginia before you come down on me for that), so we need to find better sources. Luckily for us, people have already came up with 2.

 

 

 

One uses large mirrors to redirect the heat from the sun toward a long pipe of water, heating it to the boiling point to spin a turbine. The hotter the climate, the better for this method. It also produces more energy for the area you put into it. It's been estimated that if we can find an area ~90 square miles large in the desert, we can power ALL of America with the electricity produced. The only problem is that transmission lines strong enough to handle that don't exist yet.

 

 

 

Another is a machine developed that can convert anything you throw into it short of nuclear waste into energy and an asphalt-like molten material. The machine is roughly the size of a 2 car garage. It takes a little bit of energy to start it, but once it gets going, it produces more energy than it takes. The only real problem with this is finding the funding to reproduce this machine for the bigger cities. As an added bonus, this removes the need for landfills. I think that this thing would be perfect for outer space expeditions. Need power? Drop by an asteroid belt or something and feed this thing a couple tons. Problem solved. :thumbsup: I'm not entirely sure what the asphalt material is usable for, however.

 

 

 

For those who are wondering, I found the "super-solar power" idea in the Newsweek about 1968, and the garbage eater idea in a Scientific American magazine (I think, it's one of those types of mags). Discuss?

[Will H]

That sounds like a good idea, but feasibility may be debatable. How fast is their metabolic rate? What's the input-output ratio? How carbon-negative is this, since they are producing oil which would eventually be burnt and the carbon would be released into the atmosphere anyway?

 

 

 

I still think that hydrogen feul is the best idea, coupled with nuclear fission/fusion, solar, wind, and hydroelectric power.

 

 

 

Heck, we can do things like what ember suggested, using global warming to solve global warming!

 

 

 

What I don't get is why they haven't thought of using wind and solar power to make hydrogen feul (via electrolysis) when it's in excess, then burning the fuel when there is no wind/light! It's carbon neutral, in fact there's no carbon involved. Hydrogen is effectively nature's batteries.

[Lenin64]

If the asphalt-substance is molten, that means it's really hot with energy right? So why not put it back into the machine and keep recycling it until it cools off enough? Then we can feed it to the oil bugs. :thumbup:

[ember3579]

If the asphalt-substance is molten, that means it's really hot with energy right? So why not put it back into the machine and keep recycling it until it cools off enough? Then we can feed it to the oil bugs. :thumbup:

 

 

 

That might be a good idea, but putting things that hot through parts not designed for it isn't very safe, and we don't know how useful this substance is. Also, there is no "cooldown" for the stuff as long as it's being put through the machine. How did it get hot in the first place? :roll: Also, I think that the oil bugs probably have a limit, and unless if they can eat solid metal, then this stuff is beyond their abilities.

[Lenin64]

If the asphalt-substance is molten, that means it's really hot with energy right? So why not put it back into the machine and keep recycling it until it cools off enough? Then we can feed it to the oil bugs. :thumbup:

 

 

 

That might be a good idea, but putting things that hot through parts not designed for it isn't very safe, and we don't know how useful this substance is. Also, there is no "cooldown" for the stuff as long as it's being put through the machine. How did it get hot in the first place? :roll: Also, I think that the oil bugs probably have a limit, and unless if they can eat solid metal, then this stuff is beyond their abilities.

 

Hey, this is all hypothetical anyways. And who says the parts can't be designed for it? It probably got hot from whatever leftover energy was in the original product. Or from being right in the energy when it was taken from said object.

 

 

 

And you said it was asphalt-like, which is not metallic.

[Oy_the_Great]

So because there is a small chance of a spill we should just give up on energy independence and continue paying $4 a gallon gas?

 

 

 

 

No we should move away from short-term solutions and start looking at long-term, cleaner and renewable energy sources. We're just going to screw the world up more if we keep using Oil. Also 4 dollars a gallon is quite cheap when compared to other countries, be happy you only pay 4 dollars.

 

 

 

Even if a spill doesn't occur a [cabbage] load of Co2 is released into the air furthering the effects of global warming, shouldn't we consider the future world I.E our children, their children etc in these choices as these choices essentially decide what their world will be like.

 

 

 

Exactely. I thought Americans were so in awe by the movie your President, I'm sorry, would have been President, Al Gore made? Well, I don't see a lot of that. I bet most people (not just Americans, I'm not that kind of an anti-America lefty) would still happily consume and consume carbon-based energy until they die of everything that will happen in the long term. And only then they'll notice that paying a little more for nature-friendly energy sources might have been better than digging their own graves by polluting non-stop.

 

 

 

Even if there is an unlimited and extremely cheap supply of oil and all of its derived products, then it still only should be used as little as possible, for certain plastics perhaps. I'm actually not unhappy about the fact that oil prices are soaring these days, it's the only reason why people will think twice about taking the car everywhere they go or putting the heating higher when it's getting colder instead of wearing a sweater.

 

 

 

From reading this entire thread, I conclude that jackattack has the most knowledge of the oil-digging business, but apparently doesn't care about its effects. It kinda scares me that such people, who are apparently not idiots, scarcely think further than what the minimal cost per barrel oil might be given the circumstances. No offense jack, but would you not rather be a little poorer but still live on a planet not on the verge of becoming uninhabitable for about 50% of all the people in this world?

 

 

 

 

edit: I did a little research about the infamous possible drilling area in Alaska, and I do agree that it would be beneficial for all oil-consuming people to start drilling there, although it surely won't be environmental-friendly. Firstly all the infrastructures required (not just the operating factory, also roads, distributing facilities etc.) would destroy a large part of the ANWR, second the energy required to transport it to the other states would be pretty vast too. The area is only 3.13 sq. miles, but I'm sure its influential sphere would stretch a lot further.

[magekillr]

Well for one thing, if Al Gore were President we wouldn't be in 9 trillion in debt from the war, and 4,000 people wouldn't be dead. :roll:

[ember3579]

Well for one thing, if Al Gore were President we wouldn't be in 9 trillion in debt from the war, and 4,000 people wouldn't be dead. :roll:

 

 

 

The debt's not ENTIRELY from the war, but other than that, you're correct. That's a different subject, though. If you want to post a topic on that particular thought train, though, be my guest. Just make sure you either research a TON into the area or you ask warri0r for help.