They don't really have a choice do they? Think about it from their perspective, as many posters have already done. I agree Jagex could do better, but they can't really grow a special bond with players anymore.

The only thing that I took out of that story was that Jagex only cares about their high level players.

 

 

 

People often claim that Jagex should pay more attention to veterans. Of course, it tends to be the veterans who say that!

 

 

 

The RWT updates weren't about Jagex not knowing what the community wanted. They knew perfectly well that they were alienating a vast proportion of their customers. That's not something a business will do unless it REALLY has to, so we can only conclude that Jagex thought they had no alternative.

 

 

 

Apart from the trouble with Jagex-vs-player relations, I think there might be a growing problem with Jagex-vs-Jagex relations. They're not a single hive-mind composed of 300/400 bodies all working in perfect harmony under the direction of Mr Gower. They're 300/400 individual people working in separate teams. There've been enough issues in the past where one Jmod's posted a definitive statement, such as "Dust devils do NOT drop dragon chains", only to be contradicted by another Jmod posting the complete opposite a moment later. It'd only get worse if they tried doubling the size of the company to give us more Jmods to chat to!

 

 

 

We know that Jagex does seem to absorb some ideas eventually, even if they don't reply much. Their announcements about Item Lending have changed over the last few months, implementing suggestions players had made on the forums before. One of their programmers posted a great long pile of stuff on the RSOF about how Clan Wars could be updated, mirroring an article that had been published here on TipIt a week previously. The time they reversed their decision about banning Swiftswitch, the newspost explained that they'd been in touch with the guy who wrote it, and he'd agreed to make changes to it.

 

 

 

What they don't do is implement requests like "fix the lag" or "ffs bring back the Wilderness". Or "stop doing pointless updates and fix the combat system". Even if they know what players want - or at least what the nearby ranters want - they can't always wave the magic wand to make it happen. I'm pretty sure that if there was a simple way of making everyone's computer talk smoothly to their servers across thousands of miles of internet simultaneously, they'd have tried it by now. And I'd be terrified of Jagex making a vast change to combat unless they've got a REALLY good plan.

 

 

 

So Jagex does appear to be listening, and taking a few ideas from players, and even talking directly when they can. It's just not something we can see happening on a daily basis. And it does end up being impersonal, which is a shame, but that's not the end of the world. I would far rather have the Jmods focus their attention on ban appeals, game maintenance and stuff like that rather than sitting in the game surrounded by people who want a screenshot of a Jmod saying "Orange Ownage FTW".

The only thing that I took out of that story was that Jagex only cares about their high level players.

 

 

 

People often claim that Jagex should pay more attention to veterans. Of course, it tends to be the veterans who say that!

 

 

 

The RWT updates weren't about Jagex not knowing what the community wanted. They knew perfectly well that they were alienating a vast proportion of their customers. That's not something a business will do unless it REALLY has to, so we can only conclude that Jagex thought they had no alternative.

 

 

 

Apart from the trouble with Jagex-vs-player relations, I think there might be a growing problem with Jagex-vs-Jagex relations. They're not a single hive-mind composed of 300/400 bodies all working in perfect harmony under the direction of Mr Gower. They're 300/400 individual people working in separate teams. There've been enough issues in the past where one Jmod's posted a definitive statement, such as "Dust devils do NOT drop dragon chains", only to be contradicted by another Jmod posting the complete opposite a moment later. It'd only get worse if they tried doubling the size of the company to give us more Jmods to chat to!

 

 

 

We know that Jagex does seem to absorb some ideas eventually, even if they don't reply much. Their announcements about Item Lending have changed over the last few months, implementing suggestions players had made on the forums before. One of their programmers posted a great long pile of stuff on the RSOF about how Clan Wars could be updated, mirroring an article that had been published here on TipIt a week previously. The time they reversed their decision about banning Swiftswitch, the newspost explained that they'd been in touch with the guy who wrote it, and he'd agreed to make changes to it.

 

 

 

What they don't do is implement requests like "fix the lag" or "ffs bring back the Wilderness". Or "stop doing pointless updates and fix the combat system". Even if they know what players want - or at least what the nearby ranters want - they can't always wave the magic wand to make it happen. I'm pretty sure that if there was a simple way of making everyone's computer talk smoothly to their servers across thousands of miles of internet simultaneously, they'd have tried it by now. And I'd be terrified of Jagex making a vast change to combat unless they've got a REALLY good plan.

 

 

 

So Jagex does appear to be listening, and taking a few ideas from players, and even talking directly when they can. It's just not something we can see happening on a daily basis. And it does end up being impersonal, which is a shame, but that's not the end of the world. I would far rather have the Jmods focus their attention on ban appeals, game maintenance and stuff like that rather than sitting in the game surrounded by people who want a screenshot of a Jmod saying "Orange Ownage FTW".

 

 

 

I do agree with everything you said. I really do understand that they do actually listen, and take suggestions into consideration. Maybe not directly, but it does happen, and has happened on numerous occasions.

 

 

 

When I mentioned in game interaction, I didn't necessarily mean actual in game interaction. When a JMod appears on a game world it's almost always followed by spam and chaos. Almost like how bugs are drawn to a light, except everyone is drawn to the yellow crown.

 

 

 

They do have a private message system, and I wish they used it on a more regular basis. I know that some staff members probably interact with players via this messaging system quite frequently, I just wish they'd open their eyes, and appeal to a wider audience. I know I may sound arrogant when I say this, but they should talk to more of the veterans, especially the ones from the older days (of RSC). I say this because a lot of the veterans probably know more about the game then some of the newer staff do.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm being too hypocritical, but when you've been a dedicated player for 6 years, and are hardly recognized by the makers of the game, it's a disappointment. My insight could be better then some of these high level players they talk to who have only spent a few months on the game; or other players for that matter. My insight could also be worse, but I do have an insight, and I do care about the game. If I didn't I wouldn't still be playing after all this time. I just wish they'd recognize this, that's all.

 

 

 

The only thing that I took out of that story was that Jagex only cares about their high level players. In both of your stories Jagex caring revolved around people on the top page of the highscores.

 

 

 

i guess i should off lied and reduced the lvl of the player on the top page for you to get(or agree to ) my point. but then to some readers i would be missing the point. point being i am a lesser folk than the top page guy yet i have link and he does not.

 

 

 

Once again, this generally doesn't happen to the lesser folk (as myself) that play the game

 

 

 

i know some lvl 3 player mods lesser folk i guess that probibly have jmod contact. its a big pond m8 fish the right places you may hook a contact.but remember its all down to the bait you use

 

 

 

It's great that you have a link, but you still make up a small mainority of players that do have a link.

 

 

 

As for the Player Mods, I'm sure they do have contact with Jagex staff considering they're part of a moderating team. Yet that level 3 mod you spoke of could have been someone who joined a few months ago and used an automated script to report autoers JUST so he could have that link. Why should he get the link, when he cheated, over a veteran who's been dedicated to the game for years?

 

 

 

And trust me, I've used all kinds of "bait". Either Jagex isn't biting, or I haven't found the right one..

Maybe I'm being too hypocritical, but when you've been a dedicated player for 6 years, and are hardly recognized by the makers of the game, it's a disappointment. My insight could be better then some of these high level players they talk to who have only spent a few months on the game; or other players for that matter. My insight could also be worse, but I do have an insight, and I do care about the game. If I didn't I wouldn't still be playing after all this time. I just wish they'd recognize this, that's all.

 

 

 

How is it a disappointment? Sure, it's nice to have a JMod to chat with every now and then, but why are you wearing your emotions on your sleeve with this one? I, like you, have been playing for about six years, and I've seen and spoken to a grand total of two Jagex Mods. It doesn't bother me as much because I realize that they're not here to chew the fat with me, they're out investigating what major bugs need fixing out in a certain section of the game. By them not talking with me directly, I don't feel like they're shunning me out or anything like that. They're busy, and that's all that really boils down to.

 

 

 

But let's be nice and hypothetical here, and see something else -- what if they weren't really busy? Let's pull a random Mod out of the air...oh, say...Mod Craddock (Suggestions board, old High-level suggestions thread). What would you and he have a talk about? An in-game suggestion? A complaint? Just to say hi? Thanking him for his hard work and endeavors? Or would you just want to have the link for the sake of having it?

 

 

 

I want you to see where I'm going with this -- even if you did get the link, what would you do with it? There are many other channels of communication that one could use to get the above -- while they may not post nearly as often as we'd like to see, at least they do read the boards.

 

 

 

As for the Player Mods, I'm sure they do have contact with Jagex staff considering they're part of a moderating team. Yet that level 3 mod you spoke of could have been someone who joined a few months ago and used an automated script to report autoers JUST so he could have that link. Why should he get the link, when he cheated, over a veteran who's been dedicated to the game for years?

 

 

 

1) You have no evidence he cheated.

 

2) Player Mods are a special sort. They're hand selected by Jagex anyway.

 

3) A veteran player might not make the best person to talk to.

 

4) Who deserves higher priority, a volunteer Player Moderator asking a question about their duties, or a "veteran" that wants attention?

Maybe I'm being too hypocritical, but when you've been a dedicated player for 6 years, and are hardly recognized by the makers of the game, it's a disappointment. My insight could be better then some of these high level players they talk to who have only spent a few months on the game; or other players for that matter. My insight could also be worse, but I do have an insight, and I do care about the game. If I didn't I wouldn't still be playing after all this time. I just wish they'd recognize this, that's all.

 

 

 

How is it a disappointment? Sure, it's nice to have a JMod to chat with every now and then, but why are you wearing your emotions on your sleeve with this one? I, like you, have been playing for about six years, and I've seen and spoken to a grand total of two Jagex Mods. It doesn't bother me as much because I realize that they're not here to chew the fat with me, they're out investigating what major bugs need fixing out in a certain section of the game. By them not talking with me directly, I don't feel like they're shunning me out or anything like that. They're busy, and that's all that really boils down to.

 

 

 

But let's be nice and hypothetical here, and see something else -- what if they weren't really busy? Let's pull a random Mod out of the air...oh, say...Mod Craddock (Suggestions board, old High-level suggestions thread). What would you and he have a talk about? An in-game suggestion? A complaint? Just to say hi? Thanking him for his hard work and endeavors? Or would you just want to have the link for the sake of having it?

 

 

 

I want you to see where I'm going with this -- even if you did get the link, what would you do with it? There are many other channels of communication that one could use to get the above -- while they may not post nearly as often as we'd like to see, at least they do read the boards.

 

 

 

As for the Player Mods, I'm sure they do have contact with Jagex staff considering they're part of a moderating team. Yet that level 3 mod you spoke of could have been someone who joined a few months ago and used an automated script to report autoers JUST so he could have that link. Why should he get the link, when he cheated, over a veteran who's been dedicated to the game for years?

 

 

 

1) You have no evidence he cheated.

 

2) Player Mods are a special sort. They're hand selected by Jagex anyway.

 

3) A veteran player might not make the best person to talk to.

 

4) Who deserves higher priority, a volunteer Player Moderator asking a question about their duties, or a "veteran" that wants attention?

 

 

 

 

 

Ahh I guess you're right for the first half there.

 

 

 

As for the second, no I don't have any proof, but it's been done before. I know a few people who've done it just for the sake of doing it. I didn't praise them for it, but it basically proved that there are still Major Flaws in the player mod system and that everyone is not hand picked. How many reports you put in plays a huge role in if you get picked or not.

 

 

 

I was just using it as an example too. Oh well, I'll just forget about ever having a link, as I've done before. Hell it would be nice, but the worlds not going to end if it doesn't happen. ;)

I used to respect Jagex a lot until one day there was this sexually offensive image on the rs main page, so I reported it and they gave a reply basically saying other players like visiting those sites so they're probably not going to remove it but they'll think about it (which always means no)

 

 

 

I then got sick and tired of them and their broken promises and delaying tactics with the recent lag and disconnection problems for many players across the world with runescape. I, myself, was effected by it and i've currently had more than 2.1K disconnections (50+ a day for the last few months) and no i'm not exaggerating, I wish I could say I was but I counted them. In 1 hour 39 minutes I got 25 disconnects. Times that by 2 and you have atleast 50 disconnects a day. I've never experienced disconnecting like this before, I only used to disconnect about twice a year, if that. Now to my point...

 

 

 

A few months back jagex made a sticky in the tech support forum called "RAM/DRAIN CONNECTION LOSS PT2". On page 88 of the 91 pages, A jagex mod, who i'm not going to name, *promised* us the results by Friday the 20th of June (which was 11 days ago) and has asked for our system specs YET AGAIN when they already had them for months saying they know what the problem is and that they'll give us the results on Friday the 20th. They then HID the sticky so us, the enfuriated players wanting to know the results, couldn't REFER BACK to their promise that they broke! Sneaky jagex, VERY VERY sneaky.

 

 

 

I never used to be angry with jagex but after the above points, I can see why people get frustrated with them.

 

 

 

They better fix it with this graphic update or else they'll soon find themselves with less members until it IS fixed :evil:

 

 

 

P.S. If you look at the suggestions forum, in particular the stickified post, you'll see even the suggestions they thought were GOOD, are NEVER implemented. You could say that's the reason I don't suggest things to them anymore, it's useless. Also with the -new weapons/armour- sticky, jagex hasn't even updated the list for 1,720 posts!

 

 

 

One last thing, they cater to the noobies too much, they need more high level updates like what they did last year with the DFH, DFS, GWD etc. where they came out with a TON of high level stuff all in one whole go :D

well ive been playing scince runescape classic lol =P but then i was like 7 :P and i basically played for like 20mins every couple days or so lol so i havent really noticed a difference but i do agree the forums are a joke

I've played since the beta of RSC and all this comes across to me as is whining. Of course they're more distant now. They have 5,000,000 players now instead of 50, it's impossible to keep a close link with all of them. Faulting them for being a business is just idiotic. They have to make money to keep runescape running and updated. And don't even try to say they are greedy, Jagex gives massive amounts of money to charity and spends a lot on improving the work life of their employees. What's the last company you ever saw that provided fresh fruit every day to their workers.

 

 

 

So what if the link between Jagex and the players is getting bigger. Are you playing Runescape for Runescape, or to be buddies with the gowers?

 

 

 

Take a look at Bungie, as far as I'm concerned they do a great job to stay in contact with their players. They are dealing with even more players than Jagex does but yet their connection between them and the players is just unbelievable fabulous!

You can't expect Andrew to come on or anything like that. If he did, the news would spread like wildfire and the servers would crash. Imagine 300,000 noobs typing in runescape.com at the same time.