True, but America supposedly has the truest form of democracy and don't receive socialist benefits like you do in the UK. Those people who pay 40% still pay for their own healthcare. Im not trying to compare it to all of the European nations that receive many national benefits from their increased taxes.

Obama is not a Socialist, get this right. His policies tend more toward Marxism than Socialism. The world wanted him elected based on the color of his skin and his ethnic background, nothing more. His political rhetoric during the campaign runs almost completely contrary to what his voting record has been, where he has a record at all. Now all eyes are on him and the world will expect the US to pay for a lot of things to make them all feel better.

 

 

 

If you favor the redistribution of wealth so that those who work hard and try to better themselves have to turn around and give away what they have earned to someone who refuses to work, you are a moron. The people doing the work in this case will simply either quit working, or move their business elsewhere.

 

 

 

It is not the Blue states that elected Obama to the presidency, it is the cities alone that did this. If you look at the county by county map, most everyone outside of a major city voted overwhelmingly for McCain. This tells me that there are still some intelligent people out there that hopefully can hold his feet to the fire and control any damage that his policies can cause. But with the Democrats in control in congress, this is not likely to happen.

 

 

 

Enough of this. I hope for the best, but fear for the worst out of this. I will espect Obama as president for the sake of the respect the office deserves, even if I do not agree with what policies will come out of it. I voted, I have the right to complain. If you didn't vote, or if you voted for Obama, you have no right to complain when you get whats coming to you....

 

 

 

If you favor the redistribution of wealth so that those who work hard and try to better themselves have to turn around and give away what they have earned to someone who refuses to work, you are a moron. The people doing the work in this case will simply either quit working, or move their business elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't seem to understand. The rich get by EASILY in this world, and it isn't a case of giving it to "people who refuse to work" - MILLIONS of people are poor and work ridiculous hours just to get by, with no holidays, no relaxation. They're born poor, they don't have the same opportunities as the rich, they can't afford health insurance so when they get into a car crash at the age of 60 they end up being kicked out of their houses and have to live on the street.

 

 

 

If you really think that all poor people are simply poor because they refuse to work, then it is YOU that is the idiot. America is full of people like you and it's no wonder every single country in the world has hated you for years. Obama isn't a socialist, but it would be good if he was. Capitalism is the true evil we face, you can shpeel all this "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" bs but as long as we have capitalism there will always be people born into poverty and suffering. You only care about yourself and would rather put your own self interests before the future of mankind.

 

 

 

People should be free to do what they want as long as it does not impose upon the freedoms of others. Well guess what.. capitalism does.

True, but America supposedly has the truest form of democracy and don't receive socialist benefits like you do in the UK. Those people who pay 40% still pay for their own healthcare. Im not trying to compare it to all of the European nations that receive many national benefits from their increased taxes.

 

 

 

 

 

Strictly speaking you are a federal republic not a democracy. There are no 'true' democracies in the world today because the system of direct government by the people just doesnt scale up, at the very best you get democracy by proxy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you didn't vote, or if you voted for Obama, you have no right to complain when you get whats coming to you....

 

 

 

I do trust we can apply this to those who voted for Bush?

I still don't get why everyone hates Bush :|. If it's because of the state of the current economy, for the love of God, read up on basic macro. If it's because of the war, think about what the general opinion was after 9/11. If it's because he's an idiot, considering he's probably smarter than you are that doesn't say much for your self esteem.

 

 

 

Meh, I just hate the bandwagon.

I still don't get why everyone hates Bush :|. If it's because of the state of the current economy, for the love of God, read up on basic macro. If it's because of the war, think about what the general opinion was after 9/11. If it's because he's an idiot, considering he's probably smarter than you are that doesn't say much for your self esteem.

 

 

 

Meh, I just hate the bandwagon.

 

 

 

It's mostly because of the war. Many people hold the opinion that his administration (and other foreign administrations) either lied or at the very least manipulated public and global opinion by creating a climate of fear among the populace, taking advantage of the horrors of 9/11 and using them to gain support in order to launch an unjust war against a country that had nothing to do with it, and no WMDs, killing more and more innocent civilians and creating more disdain amongst the people of the Middle East.

 

 

 

His positions on stem cell research, adoption, gay marriage etc.. oh and not to mention the fact that he did NOTHING about the DEA punishing people who were using medical marijuana.. then add that to the fact that he was far-right to begin with, it isn't really hard to see why a lot of people dislike him.

I still don't get why everyone hates Bush :|. If it's because of the state of the current economy, for the love of God, read up on basic macro. If it's because of the war, think about what the general opinion was after 9/11. If it's because he's an idiot, considering he's probably smarter than you are that doesn't say much for your self esteem.

 

 

 

Meh, I just hate the bandwagon.

 

I can't really say I hate Bush, I just like to make fun of famous people. I do say it could have been worse, at least John Kerry wasn't elected. Intelligence and being an idiot are two different things though, some of the smartest people have done the dumbest things, from certain points of view. Like Albert Einstien and the atom bomb.

Wow the worlds first half man half cloth (muslin to be precise) world leader.

Wow the worlds first half man half cloth (muslin to be precise) world leader.

 

 

 

It's surprising that you aren't from America.

 

 

 

I guess we aren't alone, we also have our fair share of idiots.

 

 

 

I apologise on behalf of my country for megakiller's ridiculous comments.

Sweden is a very socialist country and it's working totally fine, pretty much no homeless people and still a lot of people with a good amount of wealth. I don't get all the idiots who are saying "boo socialism!", I think they're mixing it up with communism or something.

 

 

 

Ugh, -_-.

I still don't get why everyone hates Bush :|. If it's because of the state of the current economy, for the love of God, read up on basic macro. If it's because of the war, think about what the general opinion was after 9/11. If it's because he's an idiot, considering he's probably smarter than you are that doesn't say much for your self esteem.

 

 

 

Meh, I just hate the bandwagon.

 

 

 

How about the complete lack of sesnitivity in subjects that if you cant handle carefully yourself then you should have someone who can speak for you. The warrantless spying program. The use and abuse of the state secrets doctrine to quell any lawsuit you didnt like. The use and abuse of the national security letters. Ultimately i'm a civil libertarian so there are quite alot of things I find objectionable about Bush and his administration.

Sweden is a very socialist country and it's working totally fine, pretty much no homeless people and still a lot of people with a good amount of wealth. I don't get all the idiots who are saying "boo socialism!", I think they're mixing it up with communism or something.

 

 

 

Ugh, -_-.

 

 

 

What's so bad about socialism?

Sweden is a very socialist country and it's working totally fine, pretty much no homeless people and still a lot of people with a good amount of wealth. I don't get all the idiots who are saying "boo socialism!", I think they're mixing it up with communism or something.

 

Reality has a liberal bias so I'm going to post a link teeming with my own biases that contradicts all other evidence about a place I've never even been.

 

 

 

*picks his nose*

Wow the worlds first half man half cloth (muslin to be precise) world leader.

 

 

 

Oh haha.Hey wait,why does it say he's protestant christian?Ok so Saudi Arabia isn't part of the world?The Egyptian and Turkish Moslems that ruled Jerusalem,your centre of the world at the time,were not part of the world?

 

 

 

Hey Reb,whats wrong?You giving the impression Socialism scares you or something.

Sweden is a very socialist country and it's working totally fine, pretty much no homeless people and still a lot of people with a good amount of wealth. I don't get all the idiots who are saying "boo socialism!", I think they're mixing it up with communism or something.

 

[Link snipped]

 

^

 

Based on the post time it's unbearably improbable that you even read the link. If you think I'm wrong at least say why.

 

 

 

I'm pretty conservative is all. I'm just not a fan of redistribution of wealth.

 

 

 

If you favor the redistribution of wealth so that those who work hard and try to better themselves have to turn around and give away what they have earned to someone who refuses to work, you are a moron. The people doing the work in this case will simply either quit working, or move their business elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't seem to understand. The rich get by EASILY in this world, and it isn't a case of giving it to "people who refuse to work" - MILLIONS of people are poor and work ridiculous hours just to get by, with no holidays, no relaxation. They're born poor, they don't have the same opportunities as the rich, they can't afford health insurance so when they get into a car crash at the age of 60 they end up being kicked out of their houses and have to live on the street.

 

 

 

If you really think that all poor people are simply poor because they refuse to work, then it is YOU that is the idiot. America is full of people like you and it's no wonder every single country in the world has hated you for years. Obama isn't a socialist, but it would be good if he was. Capitalism is the true evil we face, you can shpeel all this "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" bs but as long as we have capitalism there will always be people born into poverty and suffering. You only care about yourself and would rather put your own self interests before the future of mankind.

 

 

 

People should be free to do what they want as long as it does not impose upon the freedoms of others. Well guess what.. capitalism does.

 

 

 

I did not say can't work, I said won't work. There is a huge difference, and there are already programs in place for those who can't work. Capitalism has worked in this country for over 200 years. The bailout package is a mistake too, and dooms everyone who works in this country to pay for the excesses and mistakes of the super rich for the next couple of generations at least. I work hard for what I have. The policy of spread the wealth has never worked and will never work.

America has been through a lot worse things. Just stop flaming about the president's and live your life like a normal rational human being. Today in one of my courses, people just kept on talking about how Obama is going to ruin The United State.Why don't people just stop? start worrying about what's "HAPPENING" and not whats "GOING" to happen. =D> =D>

His positions on stem cell research, adoption, gay marriage etc.. oh and not to mention the fact that he did NOTHING about the DEA punishing people who were using medical marijuana.. then add that to the fact that he was far-right to begin with, it isn't really hard to see why a lot of people dislike him.

 

 

 

Most of that stuff didn't do anything to damage Bush's reputation. It's almost entirely all due to the war on Terrorism and the current state of the economy.

I'm sick and tired about hearing that "I worked hard for what I have, why can't those other people?"

 

 

 

Let's take an example. Joe the plumber: he's a criminal, he's a fraud, he's ignorant, and he's a liar. He owes the IRS taxes, he owes the DMV $700 in tickets and has his driving license suspended because of it, he's not a licensed plumber and if he did plumbing work for money in Ohio he is a criminal (not allowed to do plumbing in Ohio without a license), and he lied about buying a business that his supposed boss isn't even selling.

 

 

 

Now what? He could possibly have a country record deal, he was the talk of the media since the 3rd debate, he has a publicist, he'll probably write a book, etc.

 

 

 

Now, did he work for ANY of those things? He's not a struggling musician looking for a break. He's not an amazing author that has been looking for recognition his whole life, and he certainly doesn't need a publicist.

 

 

 

The answer is, he didn't do jack [cabbage] for any of these things that could possibly happen. He was in the right place, at the right time, and got attention by slandering Obama. That makes him worthy of wealth? He worked for that wealth?

Right, like everyone who earned their wealth is Joe the Plumber.

Right, like everyone who earned their wealth is Joe the Plumber.

 

 

 

No, but a vast majority were already born privileged.

 

 

 

I came from an average family...slightly higher than average actually (dad makes $80,000 atm but he's a Federal employee). I am working for it, but you have to remember that I was still given opportunities that the average American is not. The average household in America makes $45,000 a year, and I'd say it's a lot lower than that simply because of the richest 5% owning more than HALF of the wealth, and 20% own over 80% of the wealth. So really, just because Bill Gates walks into a bar, not everyone is a millionaire simply because he makes billions to average everyone else out. I hope you understand what I meant by that.

 

 

 

However, I was privileged. I didn't have to drop out of high school, and get a job, just to help my parents pay the bills. I didn't get a teenage woman pregnant, while not having received proper sexual education to know about the consequences. I didn't grow up in poverty. I didn't go to a [cabbage]ty high school. I was given many opportunities that I didn't work for, that many others are not given. And even I am struggling.

 

 

 

Obama wants to raise the tax rates to LESS than that of Clinton. How is that out of hand? We had a surplus during the Clinton years, and there was a less wage gap.

 

 

 

America currently has wage gaps worse than countries like Kenya, according to the United Nations (at least that's what we're approaching). Don't you see a problem here?

 

 

 

The thing is, as hard as some people might work and try, it doesn't guarantee prosperity. That is the lie that is the American Dream: few live it.

The thing is, as hard as some people might work and try, it doesn't guarantee prosperity. That is the lie that is the American Dream: few live it.

 

 

 

I agree with that

I'm fine with universal health care and a redistribution of taxes towards the higher income brackets. I don't see why anyone should have anything against that.

I'm fine with universal health care and a redistribution of taxes towards the higher income brackets. I don't see why anyone should have anything against that.

 

 

 

It'd be interesting to know then Sly.. which part of the political spectrum would you say you occupy?

 

 

 

I would have thought, due to the religious side of things you would be centre-right or far right but now I'm not so sure..

Right, like everyone who earned their wealth is Joe the Plumber.

 

 

 

No, but a vast majority were already born privileged.

 

 

 

I came from an average family...slightly higher than average actually (dad makes $80,000 atm but he's a Federal employee). I am working for it, but you have to remember that I was still given opportunities that the average American is not. The average household in America makes $45,000 a year, and I'd say it's a lot lower than that simply because of the richest 5% owning more than HALF of the wealth, and 20% own over 80% of the wealth. So really, just because Bill Gates walks into a bar, not everyone is a millionaire simply because he makes billions to average everyone else out. I hope you understand what I meant by that.

 

 

 

However, I was privileged. I didn't have to drop out of high school, and get a job, just to help my parents pay the bills. I didn't get a teenage woman pregnant, while not having received proper sexual education to know about the consequences. I didn't grow up in poverty. I didn't go to a [cabbage] high school. I was given many opportunities that I didn't work for, that many others are not given. And even I am struggling.

 

 

 

Obama wants to raise the tax rates to LESS than that of Clinton. How is that out of hand? We had a surplus during the Clinton years, and there was a less wage gap.

 

 

 

America currently has wage gaps worse than countries like Kenya, according to the United Nations (at least that's what we're approaching). Don't you see a problem here?

 

 

 

The thing is, as hard as some people might work and try, it doesn't guarantee prosperity. That is the lie that is the American Dream: few live it.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying it's impossible to stay poor, but it usually is. Poor people are generally poor, because they made bad decisions, I'm not saying they were risky, but generall bad. But I wonder, how do so many poor people rise up to be rich? Simple, the gap is less existant then you guys would like to realize. I mean, it would take a lot of hard work, but it's been done before.