Satanic "religion"

[Gosu]

Yeah, what has church done? Feeding propaganda (nazis did that), crusades (compare: second world war), witch burnings (nazis executed jews), aimed for the destruction of every other religion than their own, "superior" one... (compare: Aryan philosophy). So, now, what's the difference between you and the nazis? That's what the church has done in the past and that's what the church (and nazis) really wants: complete control of the whole world, where there's only one religion (or nation, in nazi's case) . Funny though, they praise about tolerance and freedom :roll:

 

 

 

Sadly, the situation in modern world is usually "You have freedom to choice your own religion, when it's christianity."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah that is what they've done in the PAST, but they're doing much better things now. For example, crusades? I don't see that now. Witch burnings? Lol..... Feeding propaganda? It's not propaganda if you believe. Destruction of every other religion? Now in the present times, we are taught to respect other people's religions, but that doesn't mean we believe in them. And like i said before:

 

 

 

Look at what the Church has done for the world. We've donated tons of money to the starving families everywhere, set up non-profit organizations for the needy, and encouraged kindess and forgiveness towards others. Now look at those psycho Nazis. They enouraged to exterminate all the Jews and show no mercy towards them. They treated them as if they were garbage. They burned them, killed thier loved ones in front of each other, and worse. NOW what's the difference between Chrisianity and the Nazis.

Now tell me when have the Nazis HELPED anybody?

[fire_skulll300]

hehehe :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[xarmagedd0nx]

Now tell me when have the Nazis HELPED anybody?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ironically, Nazis "tests" on humans really improved medical science, and a lot of today's scientific methods were found by Nazis on time of WW2, for example. Off course the Nazi's seemed to be good on one point of view.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see child baptism, christian kindergardens/hospitals as good, I see them as a way of feeding propaganda to little kids and weak minds. It's all about point of view, and I'm not saying that you are wrong, I'm just trying to say that little criticism is healthy for everything, and you shouldn't look things only from "common" point of view.

[logic-is-overrated]

Weren't the crusades socially/economically motivated and not really religously motivated?

[Pur304]

Hmm about the crusades, theres much debate on whether these were inspired by God or not. Popes launched the crusades, and popes are catholics, yet I do not consider catholics to be christian for a few reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Theres a lot of misconception about the crusades. A lot of people believe they were excuses to conquer part of the middle east from the muslim conquerers. The first crusade was a response to a distress letter from a Byzantium emperor requesting that troops be sent to him to helpm defend whats left of the "free" christian land and people in the eastern roman empire. The Muslims were rapidly taking much of Europe, and much land that was controlled by "christian" rulers was conquered and many of the peoples forced into conversion to Islam (they would be threatened with death, slavery, rape etc. to strike fear in them, thus forcing them to submit). This terrified the Byzantine emperor, and he new he wasnt a match against the rising muslim power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ofcourse there was atrocities on both sides, crusaders would attack the jews living in the rhine area of Europe, even when the popes that had authority over the crusades told them not to touch them!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some VERY important cities in the roman empire that were predominantly "christian" cities(such as Alexandria in Egypt and Jerusalem in Israel,or some would call it Palestine) were conquered by the muslim army.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The main goals of the first crusade was to liberate Jerusalem (the holy city) and to stablish a stronghold their so that any more Attacks from the Islamic powers would be counterred.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There numerous crusades, launched by numerous popes, with numerous goals, but the enemy was always the Muslim conquerers. Some crusades were more successful than others, but none of them stopped their enemies from controlling much of the middle east.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont know if the crusades were right or wrong, but what I do know is that without them, there would of been no one to stop the Islamic powers driving into western Europe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And armaggedon, ever thought of atheism as propaganda against God?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im sorry for any mistakes regarding grammar, but Im quite sleepy right now. As for bracketing christiantiy or christians, this is to show that they called themselves christians, and that I dont know that God sees them in the same way.

[SHIPPOU]

1. SHIPPOU, you don't take The Bible literally. You're supposed to read "in between" the lines and it's supposed to act as a book of faith, not some friggin history book. We are taught this at my Christian school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so inother words the bible should be ignored, and it is basically whatever you make of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So when people say read your bible, I shouldn't take any thing I read seriously....

[Pur304]

 

1. SHIPPOU, you don't take The Bible literally. You're supposed to read "in between" the lines and it's supposed to act as a book of faith, not some friggin history book. We are taught this at my Christian school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so inother words the bible should be ignored, and it is basically whatever you make of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So when people say read your bible, I shouldn't take any thing I read seriously....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No he meant YOU personally dont take the Bible literally.

[LostmyselfinYOU]

I think that would just be agnostic. Most Satanists I know don't necessarily follow Satan, but they lean in the exact opposite of God's views. Agnostic people just live by their own views and don't go either way.

[SHIPPOU]

 

 

1. SHIPPOU, you don't take The Bible literally. You're supposed to read "in between" the lines and it's supposed to act as a book of faith, not some friggin history book. We are taught this at my Christian school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so inother words the bible should be ignored, and it is basically whatever you make of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So when people say read your bible, I shouldn't take any thing I read seriously....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No he meant YOU personally dont take the Bible literally.

 

 

 

so now you say 1 person should tell every one what the bible means...

[Pur304]

 

 

 

1. SHIPPOU, you don't take The Bible literally. You're supposed to read "in between" the lines and it's supposed to act as a book of faith, not some friggin history book. We are taught this at my Christian school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so inother words the bible should be ignored, and it is basically whatever you make of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So when people say read your bible, I shouldn't take any thing I read seriously....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No he meant YOU personally dont take the Bible literally.

 

 

 

so now you say 1 person should tell every one what the bible means...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are so stupid. Yes, you are, and that isnt something I say lightly. In fact what you just said had nothing to do with what I or Gosu meant. He means you don't look at the Bible in the right way (actually, have you even read it?).

[SHIPPOU]

 

 

 

 

1. SHIPPOU, you don't take The Bible literally. You're supposed to read "in between" the lines and it's supposed to act as a book of faith, not some friggin history book. We are taught this at my Christian school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so inother words the bible should be ignored, and it is basically whatever you make of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So when people say read your bible, I shouldn't take any thing I read seriously....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No he meant YOU personally dont take the Bible literally.

 

 

 

so now you say 1 person should tell every one what the bible means...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are so stupid. Yes, you are, and that isnt something I say lightly. In fact what you just said had nothing to do with what I or Gosu meant. He means you don't look at the Bible in the right way (actually, have you even read it?).

 

 

 

resorting to name calling instead of actually debating any point is not making YOU look very smart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

any way

you don't look at the Bible in the right way

that yells me I do not view the bible like you, and since I do not have the "correct" view, I am to be called names (isn't there some were that says you aren't suposto do that?, ah, yes "Judge not, lest ye be Judged")

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you sayed

You're supposed to read "in between"the lines

, which means ignoring whatever you want, and interpeting it to suit your own needs.

 

 

 

now this

he meant YOU personally dont take the Bible literally

means I need some one to tell me what the bible means, and I should beleave whoever the person is on faith.

supposed to act as a book of faith, not some friggin history book

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually quite a bit of the Old Testiment is histories, or don't YOU read the 'good book' ....of course

not some friggin history book

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*sigh*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you were around during the multi-thred debates about god, and the bible, i was semi-involvel in them

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hate arguing with a 12 year old, who resorts to namecalling instead of actually debating, that is one reason my other posts are the short version of what I wrote above.

[Pur304]

Ofcourse Shippou, non-believers wont take the Bible in the same context as Christians, but what Gosu meant was that you're way off the mark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I say you're stupid, I dont mean to insult you, I just thought you would understand what I mean by "stupid" as opposed to "intellectually inferior". You are stupid for assuming that I'm 12, in fact I'm 14.

[Ryan]

Ofcourse Shippou, non-believers wont take the Bible in the same context as Christians, but what Gosu meant was that you're way off the mark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I say you're stupid, I dont mean to insult you, I just thought you would understand what I mean by "stupid" as opposed to "intellectually inferior". You are stupid for assuming that I'm 12, in fact I'm 14.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

woah..woah...hey now, 14 makes all the difference in the world.

[hohto]

1. SHIPPOU, you don't take The Bible literally. You're supposed to read "in between" the lines and it's supposed to act as a book of faith, not some friggin history book. We are taught this at my Christian school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who or what has definated how you read it "right" between the lines? The Pope? What if I understand something completely other way that the "official" story? Am I right when I say something completely other than it's been officially taught? Let's look at orthodox and catholic church. Some years (ok centuries) ago they argued about how to believe "right" and then split&cursed each other. They believed in same thing, but they showed their believe other way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Tigra, God is evil just because he wants to save us all? Ok ill ask you this. Which is better: every single one of us who sinned goes to hell and burns there forever or Christ sacrifices himslef for us. He gave his life for us and MOST people don't even BELIEVE in him. * is that?! If you died to rid everybody of their sins wouldn't you at leats want to be believed in? And one more thing. You say you believe only whats here and you don't beleive what isnt here? What about history? You beleive whats in history books, but not what others today beleive in? Maybe books were meant to..as you say "keep people in line". Ever thought about that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please tell me what's a sin. Don't start arguing how all of us felt to sin when Eva made a mistake. This is one of the biggest weaknesses (but not the only) imo in Christianity. Everyone are sinned by them, you have sin when you come to this world. Doesn't make sense. Why do you think Jesus died for our sins? What made him the son of God? If only belief is enough to be saved, why do we have to praise Jesus and show our belief?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMO Christianity is nothing but a brainwash. Almost exactly 1000 years ago the came here in Finland (a bit later than Norway and Sweden, mainly because of geological things. Anyways same thing happened there.) and they "forced" people to believe in Christ. You had 2 choices, either sword or the Bible. Tens of thousands Finns (we were pretty small "country" back in those days, basically it would be the same as 1m Englishmen in these days) were killed because we didn't accept their religion. Most (there's few left) of our holy places were destroyed and then churches were build on them. How would you feel if we burnt your fancy churches and built our own holy buildings on them? Of course you'd be mad. Also many traditions were "forgotten" because they were pagan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which religion has caused the most death? Correct! Christianity. Back in the Middle Ages they stroke against Muslims because they were afraid their "only real and right" religion was in danger. Millions of others (aboriginal tribes in Africa, North and South America, Oceania, Northern and eastern Europe) were killed because they didn't want to change their old and traditional religion to this new one. In the middle of 14th century the God wasn't happy (sarcasm if you didn't get it) and sent us a "flu" called black plague. Christians blamed jews for it, mainly because percentually less jews died. The main reason that in Christianity it was almost a sin to wash yourself. Hygienics weren't that important for Christians. Christians also produced the first chemical weapons: They infested their enemies' wells with dead bodies (died to the plague). Yep, we sure care about each other, pretty ironical how Christians talk about loving each other and same time kill millions and millions of people in the name of God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok enough of historical things, let's look at Christianity today. The old Pope died some time ago, so let's talk about him first. Basically he was a politician. He (as being a pole) was really wanting an independed Poland, but didn't say a word about other Sovient Union's countries like Estonia, Lithuania or Latvia. Why? Because he wasn't born there. He only wanted to see his country independed. I don't blame him for that, but is it right that someone who is followed because he is the "leader" of a religion goes into political things? We could also have millions less dead Africans without his words about condoms. Is it right that there's what like 10-15 children in every African family, people die at average on age 30-40 because of hiv, AIDS or the lack of food? Why did he let the families grow (means less educational possibilities, more food needed, etc) and aids spread?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some weeks ago I was Tuska festivals, a 3 day metal music festival in the middle of Helsinki. Guess what did I see there. That's right, Christians (not even Jehovan witnesses) with their bibles, some printed pages and such. According to them I was going to worship the devil, not listen to good music. Is this how you think is right? I can't enjoy of things I like because according to you it's devil worshipping? Some decades ago young Christians were thinking is dancing a sin. Some Christians won't have sex before marriage. Isn't that like denying the fact that we need sex? It's part of our emotional life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I don't believe in God or Satan. Christianity brough Satan to this world and basically satanism (as a religion, not as a philosophy) Christianity. Without Christianity there would be no satanism. I'm still part of the lutheric church, but that's only because our twisted system has put me into it because of my parents. They don't believe in Jesus either, they are just part of it because everyone is. I've planned to be parted from the church in few years. I've been thinking about it since I was at confirmation camp 3 years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please give answers to my questions, this might become an interesting discussion.

[DaN]

 

 

 

3. Tigra, God is evil just because he wants to save us all? Ok ill ask you this. Which is better: every single one of us who sinned goes to hell and burns there forever or Christ sacrifices himslef for us. He gave his life for us and MOST people don't even BELIEVE in him. * is that?! If you died to rid everybody of their sins wouldn't you at leats want to be believed in? And one more thing. You say you believe only whats here and you don't beleive what isnt here? What about history? You beleive whats in history books, but not what others today beleive in? Maybe books were meant to..as you say "keep people in line". Ever thought about that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your a narrow minded fool

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I take your advise and read between the lines in the bible and all that the church has taught me I can see some pretty bad stuff in there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I used to attend church years ago but left as soon as I could because its all [cabbage], I wont totally dismiss the possibility of a higher dimensional being, but the whole god creator of the universe thing is just utter crap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont belive "God" exists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Face it your devoting your life to a book of unauthenticated origin.

 

 

 

Anyone can write a book.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now please excuse me while I go worship the block of cheese in my fridge!

[kapten_bn]

IMO Christianity is nothing but a brainwash. Almost exactly 1000 years ago the came here in Finland (a bit later than Norway and Sweden, mainly because of geological things. Anyways same thing happened there.) and they "forced" people to believe in Christ. You had 2 choices, either sword or the Bible. Tens of thousands Finns (we were pretty small "country" back in those days, basically it would be the same as 1m Englishmen in these days) were killed because we didn't accept their religion. Most (there's few left) of our holy places were destroyed and then churches were build on them. How would you feel if we burnt your fancy churches and built our own holy buildings on them? Of course you'd be mad. Also many traditions were "forgotten" because they were pagan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which religion has caused the most death? Correct! Christianity. Back in the Middle Ages they stroke against Muslims because they were afraid their "only real and right" religion was in danger. Millions of others (aboriginal tribes in Africa, North and South America, Oceania, Northern and eastern Europe) were killed because they didn't want to change their old and traditional religion to this new one. In the middle of 14th century the God wasn't happy (sarcasm if you didn't get it) and sent us a "flu" called black plague. Christians blamed jews for it, mainly because percentually less jews died. The main reason that in Christianity it was almost a sin to wash yourself. Hygienics weren't that important for Christians. Christians also produced the first chemical weapons: They infested their enemies' wells with dead bodies (died to the plague). Yep, we sure care about each other, pretty ironical how Christians talk about loving each other and same time kill millions and millions of people in the name of God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok enough of historical things, let's look at Christianity today. The old Pope died some time ago, so let's talk about him first. Basically he was a politician. He (as being a pole) was really wanting an independed Poland, but didn't say a word about other Sovient Union's countries like Estonia, Lithuania or Latvia. Why? Because he wasn't born there. He only wanted to see his country independed. I don't blame him for that, but is it right that someone who is followed because he is the "leader" of a religion goes into political things? We could also have millions less dead Africans without his words about condoms. Is it right that there's what like 10-15 children in every African family, people die at average on age 30-40 because of hiv, AIDS or the lack of food? Why did he let the families grow (means less educational possibilities, more food needed, etc) and aids spread?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some weeks ago I was Tuska festivals, a 3 day metal music festival in the middle of Helsinki. Guess what did I see there. That's right, Christians (not even Jehovan witnesses) with their bibles, some printed pages and such. According to them I was going to worship the devil, not listen to good music. Is this how you think is right? I can't enjoy of things I like because according to you it's devil worshipping? Some decades ago young Christians were thinking is dancing a sin. Some Christians won't have sex before marriage. Isn't that like denying the fact that we need sex? It's part of our emotional life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I don't believe in God or Satan. Christianity brough Satan to this world and basically satanism (as a religion, not as a philosophy) Christianity. Without Christianity there would be no satanism. I'm still part of the lutheric church, but that's only because our twisted system has put me into it because of my parents. They don't believe in Jesus either, they are just part of it because everyone is. I've planned to be parted from the church in few years. I've been thinking about it since I was at confirmation camp 3 years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please give answers to my questions, this might become an interesting discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's discuss as you wish.

 

 

 

I don't know much about Finland being forced under the chains of christianity in 11th century, but I know about Estonia. The Crusade came here in 13th century. Although some people accepted christianity, most still belived in their pagan gods. I think, that there are people who have discovered, that religion is the most powerful force to countrol other people. It goes way back to the Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, when people were mostly controlled by fear, that they would obey to whoever was a "god chosen king" or "god's replacement on earth". Nowadays people have awaken, but sadly become more capitalized, greedy and cold. Many people are having problems with their lives, so they can't be a$$ed to worry about others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, let's talk about the pope John Paul II now. As a matter of fact he did complain about Baltic countries still being occupied by the Soviet Union. He was one of the best pope's I belive, considering that there were like 6 popes before him, who molested children, had sex with their family members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also don't like these Jehovan witnesses, who are trying to convince me, that my Emperor and Amon Amarath T-shirts are evil and satanic, not considering the principles of Emperor and the old Norwegian viking age. 8) That shows, that most of the christians are narrow-minded and intolerant.

[creepybacon]

Typical just like real life religion everyones fighting..sigh..and i thought all this stuff was supposed to spread peace and love your fellow brother or whatever..well you're all off to hell i suppose, which according to the topic starter..isn't all that bad, infact it's freedom. :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Might as well add my part..to insure my seat in hell. I don't CARE about religions..pure and simple, people want to kiss the dirt and pray while there backside sticks in the air? Go ahead, i'll just sit back and laugh. You think this "god" gives a dam if you mix dairy with meat? Ok, you keep on doing that. Do as they like i just laugh. The ones that do tick me off are the ones that ram it down your throat trying to get me to believe now i leave them alone, i don't even laugh at them in public..why do they feel the need to come and ruin my day with there silly garbage (*PERSONAL OPINION*)? I swear there must be aliens that put this into there heads for a tv show "watch the humans do stupid things - LOOK they kiss dirt!".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The above was the writers personal views, dislike it? He doesn't care so don't bother.

[hohto]

Well, let's talk about the pope John Paul II now. As a matter of fact he did complain about Baltic countries still being occupied by the Soviet Union. He was one of the best pope's I belive, considering that there were like 6 popes before him, who molested children, had sex with their family members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had an expression that John Paul II didn't affect that much on the freedom of our south neightbours, but I believe you there. Anyways he was monstly running freedom for Poland. Personally I think it's wrong, after all he was here to run a religion, not to do politics. I respect him for fighting his homeland, but I don't respect the way how he should do it. So many millions peopele follow him and think the way he wants them to think, it's scary when he can affect to so many people's minds and convince them to believe what he think is right in politics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also don't like these Jehovan witnesses, who are trying to convince me, that my Emperor and Amon Amarath T-shirts are evil and satanic, not considering the principles of Emperor and the old Norwegian viking age. 8) That shows, that most of the christians are narrow-minded and intolerant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hahhah, jevovas rock :) Few times talked with them when they wanted to discuss about the truth at my door. It's funny how they believe that's true because it's written in bible (their bible isn't identical to "real" Christians' bible) and the bible is lord's words. Can't really argue with them as they believe blindly in it. I know it's their duty to walk from door to door and spread the Lord's words and not all of them are happy (well of course they don't admit it) to do it, but still it's pretty depressing how they so strongly believe in those words and then try to spread it to people who really don't want to hear. If I wanted to hear the "truth", I'd go to them. Btw once asked one Jehova if I could get his home address so I could come there to discuss about my own religion and such. Didn't get it, wonder why...

[Pur304]

So many of you are talking about the Pope. Note he only rules one branch of "Christianity" and not them all. That branch is Catholicism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Someone also talked about Finland? Yes those soldiers that marche dinto finalnd would be soldiers in the Popes authority. Many banches of Christianity actually consider the Pope to be Anti-Christ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now when you talk about "Striking at the Muslims". It was the Muslims that first struck by invading Palestine, Egypt and Syria. These were nations under the Popes order since thye were mainly "Chrisitian". The Emperor pf the Byzantiums called for help in stopping the Muslim invasion. There were atrocities on both sides accounts but the crusaders were acting in defence. The Muslims definatly werent. Oh and yes guess who had authority over the crusades, the Popes!

[SHIPPOU]

what about the dozen or so Inquisitions, that resulted in a lot of death in Europe?

[hohto]

So many of you are talking about the Pope. Note he only rules one branch of "Christianity" and not them all. That branch is Catholicism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Someone also talked about Finland? Yes those soldiers that marche dinto finalnd would be soldiers in the Popes authority. Many banches of Christianity actually consider the Pope to be Anti-Christ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Catholism is one of the biggest Christian branches. I saw some numbers, but can't remember exactly. When we start arguing about Christianity, should we concentrate on *every* branch or just the major ones? The Pope is now "hot" as we just got a new one, so why not to discuss about him? Also some centuries ago Catholism and Orthodoxism were the only major branches. All protestant branches have their roots on Catholism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes we talked about Finland and I don't get your idea there. Christianity was brought here with swords and our soil was messed up with pagan blood. Yes they were sent by the Pope, but it doesn't change the fact that our culture was destroyed, huge amounts of my ancestors were slaughtered just because they worshipped Tapio instead of Jesus. Btw we haven't been a catholic country for centuries. We've been a lutheric country for over 500 years longer than an independed country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These argues about the Pope being an antichrist are pretty hilarious imo. Basically all the branches are the same thing with different spices, but still they have to argue about things like that. In Christianity you always talk about how you should love everyone, even your enemies. Still you are calling the leader of one of the biggest brances an antichrist. If you can't even love other Christians and show respect towards their leader, are you a real Christian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now when you talk about "Striking at the Muslims". It was the Muslims that first struck by invading Palestine, Egypt and Syria. These were nations under the Popes order since thye were mainly "Chrisitian". The Emperor pf the Byzantiums called for help in stopping the Muslim invasion. There were atrocities on both sides accounts but the crusaders were acting in defence. The Muslims definatly werent. Oh and yes guess who had authority over the crusades, the Popes!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not only the muslims. Crusaders went also to the Baltics, France and even Finland! First ones were to stop muslims, but soon they ended up their defence and started to attack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In 1095 the emperor of Byzantium asked help from Pope (urbanus the second or something) and he got pretty excited. In 1099 crusaders took Jerusalem from muslims. Islam had been found like 400-500 years earlier at those areas and Jerusalem was an important place for them (and for jews too, who were there before Christians!) too. Christians were one of the 3 major religions to whom Jerusalem was important and what did they do? They found a kingdom on Jerusalem (not 100% sure about English name for it) and basically turned it into a Christian country. Taking over a place of 3 different religions and turning it into their own country. Sounds pretty fishy to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How about the 4th crusade? First Christians planned to take over Egypt, but they ended up taking over Constantinople. It's end wasn't beautiful Also during this crusade they attacked against an old Venician city (now part of Hungary) which was (at least in Finnish) called Zara. The leader of those crusades was from that city and it was only for personal things. The place was Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Later they started doing crusades to places which were meant to be saved from paganish tribes. For example French heretics were slaughtered and they for sure weren't going to dethrone Christianity or support Islam. This was because they wanted to make Europe a Christian continent. For same reason they attacked Baltics and Finland.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Our Finnish religion wasn't a threat to Christianity. There was really few of us, we lived in small tribes and our country was more like a wilderness than a real modern european country. Tallinn in Estonia was more modern because of hansa traders, but southern Estonia was pretty much like Finland in those days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What happened after Americas were found? What happened to Oceania's islands? Their original cultures were replaced by Christian culture. It usually went like this; they found a new "paganish" island, sent a priest and few soldiers there and after 30 years the island was Christian. An original culture was gone. When other religion was threatening Christianity, they started crusades. When Christianity threatened other religions, it was ok.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically in the name of Christianity many things are done which haven't been accepted. When same things have been done by other parties, it hasn't been ok. Christianity talks about nice things how everyone should love each other and such, but still when you look at things they've done you can only wonder.

[Mercifull]

I really have much to add but I just wanted to say that I have found your posts incredibly interesting hohto. I was very impressed especially with the post just above this one with the stories about Finland

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I shall end my post with a Chursh slogan and a quote...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anne Coulter[/url]":2jzu6vu0]We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.

[Astralinre]

I really have much to add but I just wanted to say that I have found your posts incredibly interesting hohto. I was very impressed especially with the post just above this one with the stories about Finland

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I shall end my post with a Chursh slogan and a quote...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anne Coulter[/url]":1sor5ahk]We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the electÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã

[kapten_bn]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hahhah, jevovas rock :) Few times talked with them when they wanted to discuss about the truth at my door. It's funny how they believe that's true because it's written in bible (their bible isn't identical to "real" Christians' bible) and the bible is lord's words. Can't really argue with them as they believe blindly in it. I know it's their duty to walk from door to door and spread the Lord's words and not all of them are happy (well of course they don't admit it) to do it, but still it's pretty depressing how they so strongly believe in those words and then try to spread it to people who really don't want to hear. If I wanted to hear the "truth", I'd go to them. Btw once asked one Jehova if I could get his home address so I could come there to discuss about my own religion and such. Didn't get it, wonder why...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I remember, when one of my friend, who looks kinda satanic with his bald head and goat beard was visited by jehovas who wanted to spread their word of god. My friend says is like no thanks, i'm a satanist. Then jehovans left and went to another door, but they didn't knew, that my friend lives in a connected flat, and when they opened the door and saw my friend again, they just ran out :lol: Well, if i get visited by jehovans i have a nice scenario thought up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jehovans: "Could I interest You from A WORD OF GOD!!!1111???"

 

 

 

Me: "Sorry, but I'm afraid I have to close the door"

 

 

 

Jehovans again: "But y 4?"

 

 

 

Me: I'm afraid my sacrifical goat will get out 8)

[Pete_the_Viscous]

I've only once answered the door to Jehovah's Witnesses, and they were very reasonable, not that they actually tried to convert me on the spot (for we all know how that would have ended up :D ); rather, they asked if I would be interested in receiving a leaflet about their faith (not in those words - I forget what exactly they said), and, trying to be open minded, I said yes. So far, so good, I thought.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, however, I did get a leaflet from them (two in fact); I think it was called "Watchtower" or something. I read through it, and my mind is firmly made up that it's a load of twaddle. I'm all for variety of religions, and for differences of oppinion, and so on and so forth, but I draw the line at actually lying to people about things in the face of damning evidence to the contrary. After all, who can actually say what happened 2000+ years ago? Archeological evidence is all very well, but it's just evidence, when it comes down to it; just as the bible is evidence. We all choose whichever one we believe, and that's fine (I'm a science person, I'll remind people). However, what I read in that leaflet was pure lies about things that you can go and see for yourself, such about as what is written in the bible. I can't remember what it was exactly, and I threw the leaflet away ages ago, but I have a few bibles (I think everyone should have at least one, even those of us who aren't Christian - a perfect tool to use against those of us who are Christian if they ever get any of it wrong), and it was just not true what they were saying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For example (and this is just an example to show the sort of thing I'm talking about): the leaflet said that "and in the Bible we read that so-and-so did such-and-such and the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less...'" Whereas in the bible (at least, the copies I have) it said otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose my problem with it is that it was talking about things that can be proved -- religions, in my mind, don't deal with things that can actually be proved; they deal with faith and things like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, any Jehovah's Witnesses reading that -- pay no attention; what do I know, after all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---and now for the bit to get me on topic---

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, Satanism on the other hand, seems to be about ideals and lifestyles and other such things! That's a religion to go for if you ask me.