Closed.

[warrior5024]

Mager:

 

 

 

 

There is your problem.

 

Never use fire cape. You'll hit much more often with the extra +10 Magic attack of a God Cape. Accuracy = successful freezes = no need for defensive armor such as fire capes. Same goes for the bandos boots. Use infinty. There ya go, you are now up atleast 22 more magic attack points. Smoke and Ice barrage will hit on 140 magic attack if you are around 80-110 Magic attack, which isn't hard to get, your equipment is just off.

 

And on the topic on Max hits, it is silly not to include combinations as damage. Does vengeance inflict damage when you are using a whip + defender in combat? Oh, wait, since it's separate, we shouldn't count it as damage. Even though it is one of the best KO tools out there.

 

Also, you'd be surprised how many peopel do NOT use dragon hides. Especially in pits. Even when you win 3 games in a row, they sit there and bad mouth you instead of running to the bank.

[Veritas94]

Ugh, I'm growing tired of this.

 

 

 

Alright, I can see that I'm not making too much progress in convincing you guys that P2P magic needs some serious upgrades, but that's alright because I didn't expect it to happen right off. In order to finish this debate, I'll have to become a member again (I haven't been one in about (edit) 1 month), and do first hand recording and testing which will provide concrete, definitive evidence once and for all that P2P magic needs changes to its mechanics. I can't sit here all day countering your points, though; school work is a bit more important at the moment. Morningrise & Compfreak, please rest assured, my views still remain, and I will come back to finish this P2P magic discussion.

 

 

 

Thus, I'm probably going to modify the original post to only discuss the issues with F2P magic at the current time. Unfortunately, today I don't have time to do this either, so I'll have to modify it sometime in the next few days.

 

 

 

You've made this thread a success guys, thanks! W00t, 300+ posts of great discussion. Here's to many more hours of discussion on the *apparently* controversial topic.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

E.

[warrior5024]

Ugh, I'm growing tired of this.

 

 

 

Alright, I can see that I'm not making too much progress in convincing you guys that P2P magic needs some serious upgrades, but that's alright because I didn't expect it to happen right off.

 

 

 

That's because it doesn't need any improvement. If you know how to use it, it can compete with every other class.

 

Once you get members back, try out everything we've told you. Not once, but spend hours on it. You'll see.

[Veritas94]

Ugh, I'm growing tired of this.

 

 

 

Alright, I can see that I'm not making too much progress in convincing you guys that P2P magic needs some serious upgrades, but that's alright because I didn't expect it to happen right off.

 

 

 

That's because it doesn't need any improvement. If you know how to use it, it can compete with every other class.

 

Once you get members back, try out everything we've told you. Not once, but spend hours on it. You'll see.

 

 

 

I've staked with magic and pked with magic for many a year. In fact, I was probably one of the first people to know about the combos, too. As I said, I'll update my post once I get concrete numbers and videos which weigh more than anything I say here ever will. Thanks for your contributions, though, Warrior.

[Blyaunte]

Not that I am disagreeing with anyone or anything, BUT you do realize that, unlike in WoW or other MORPGs, youre not limited to only using mage as a combat skill and, as such, there really is no reason for Jagex to actually upgrade or otherwise overhaul the magic skill, right?

 

 

 

Not that it doesnt need an overhaul hell, what it needs is a whole new kick-butt branch of magics that can tear a strip of everyone.

 

 

 

DARK magic, perhaps or something of that ilk.

 

 

 

Then again, I NEVER ever seem to get the BIG hits or anything like that anyways, regardless of my intended target, or chosen method of attack but I simply put that all down to the fact that "I AM RIGGED".

 

 

 

Perhaps thats the source of your problem maybe youre just RIGGED too?

 

 

 

:P

[Obtaurian]

Ugh, I'm growing tired of this.

 

 

 

Alright, I can see that I'm not making too much progress in convincing you guys that P2P magic needs some serious upgrades, but that's alright because I didn't expect it to happen right off. In order to finish this debate, I'll have to become a member again (I haven't been one in about (edit) 1 month), and do first hand recording and testing which will provide concrete, definitive evidence once and for all that P2P magic needs changes to its mechanics. I can't sit here all day countering your points, though; school work is a bit more important at the moment. Morningrise & Compfreak, please rest assured, my views still remain, and I will come back to finish this P2P magic discussion.

 

 

 

Thus, I'm probably going to modify the original post to only discuss the issues with F2P magic at the current time. Unfortunately, today I don't have time to do this either, so I'll have to modify it sometime in the next few days.

 

 

 

You've made this thread a success guys, thanks! W00t, 300+ posts of great discussion. Here's to many more hours of discussion on the *apparently* controversial topic.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

E.

 

 

 

It's been a good discussion. I'll be looking out for your updated thread. Cheers. :)

[compfreak847]

The only thing you can test is mage accuracy; everything else is obvious. No videos can prove anything. This isn't really a 'testing' situation, it's more of an experience thing. I do agree with you one one point, though; the game mechanics should be reworked. The main problem is that farcasting is simply too powerful; all holding spells should be halved, and ice barrage shouldn't deal damage. Blood barrage should be significantly weakened, maybe by dropping its max hit, and multi spells should be severely penalized. Changes like this would let mages fit in more; instead of being expensive but all-powerful, they could be cheaper and still beat melee but lose to range.

[warrior5024]

The only thing you can test is mage accuracy; everything else is obvious. No videos can prove anything. This isn't really a 'testing' situation, it's more of an experience thing. I do agree with you one one point, though; the game mechanics should be reworked. The main problem is that farcasting is simply too powerful; all holding spells should be halved, and ice barrage shouldn't deal damage. Blood barrage should be significantly weakened, maybe by dropping its max hit, and multi spells should be severely penalized. Changes like this would let mages fit in more; instead of being expensive but all-powerful, they could be cheaper and still beat melee but lose to range.

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with you on magic being overpowered, but you do make valid arguments.

 

 

 

Cheers everybody, I'm gonna miss this thread.

[compfreak847]

The only thing you can test is mage accuracy; everything else is obvious. No videos can prove anything. This isn't really a 'testing' situation, it's more of an experience thing. I do agree with you one one point, though; the game mechanics should be reworked. The main problem is that farcasting is simply too powerful; all holding spells should be halved, and ice barrage shouldn't deal damage. Blood barrage should be significantly weakened, maybe by dropping its max hit, and multi spells should be severely penalized. Changes like this would let mages fit in more; instead of being expensive but all-powerful, they could be cheaper and still beat melee but lose to range.

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with you on magic being overpowered, but you do make valid arguments.

 

 

 

Cheers everybody, I'm gonna miss this thread.

 

I truly believe that in its present form magic is severely overpowered; it can coast though a meleer, and take down a ranger in most situations. Compare that to melee vs range!

[Obtaurian]

The only thing you can test is mage accuracy; everything else is obvious. No videos can prove anything. This isn't really a 'testing' situation, it's more of an experience thing. I do agree with you one one point, though; the game mechanics should be reworked. The main problem is that farcasting is simply too powerful; all holding spells should be halved, and ice barrage shouldn't deal damage. Blood barrage should be significantly weakened, maybe by dropping its max hit, and multi spells should be severely penalized. Changes like this would let mages fit in more; instead of being expensive but all-powerful, they could be cheaper and still beat melee but lose to range.

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with you on magic being overpowered, but you do make valid arguments.

 

 

 

Cheers everybody, I'm gonna miss this thread.

 

I truly believe that in its present form magic is severely overpowered; it can coast though a meleer, and take down a ranger in most situations. Compare that to melee vs range!

 

 

 

I was wondering what your opinion was on miasmic barrage affecting range, but I don't think I need to ask. :lol:

[compfreak847]

The only thing you can test is mage accuracy; everything else is obvious. No videos can prove anything. This isn't really a 'testing' situation, it's more of an experience thing. I do agree with you one one point, though; the game mechanics should be reworked. The main problem is that farcasting is simply too powerful; all holding spells should be halved, and ice barrage shouldn't deal damage. Blood barrage should be significantly weakened, maybe by dropping its max hit, and multi spells should be severely penalized. Changes like this would let mages fit in more; instead of being expensive but all-powerful, they could be cheaper and still beat melee but lose to range.

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with you on magic being overpowered, but you do make valid arguments.

 

 

 

Cheers everybody, I'm gonna miss this thread.

 

I truly believe that in its present form magic is severely overpowered; it can coast though a meleer, and take down a ranger in most situations. Compare that to melee vs range!

 

 

 

I was wondering what your opinion was on miasmic barrage affecting range, but I don't think I need to ask. :lol:

 

Melee vs range = range wins most of the time at equal combat levels. Mage vs. melee = melee wins. Mage vs range = mage usually wins. Poor melee :-#

[Veritas94]

The only thing you can test is mage accuracy; everything else is obvious. No videos can prove anything. This isn't really a 'testing' situation, it's more of an experience thing. I do agree with you one one point, though; the game mechanics should be reworked. The main problem is that farcasting is simply too powerful; all holding spells should be halved, and ice barrage shouldn't deal damage. Blood barrage should be significantly weakened, maybe by dropping its max hit, and multi spells should be severely penalized. Changes like this would let mages fit in more; instead of being expensive but all-powerful, they could be cheaper and still beat melee but lose to range.

 

 

 

Naturally, I read the first part of your post first, and I was angry that you continued mentioning weakening magic spells that are already sub-par when compared to melee damage. I disagree with lowering the max hit of ice barrage, but since blood barrage heals, it suppose it could be reasonable to reduce that; I wouldn't care all that much. However, when I read the second part of your post, I began to get an idea. Melee and ranged are less expensive than magic; after all, Zuriel's staff and the runes are temporary, so in things like PvP and PvE (Player vs. environment/creatures) you end up paying a lot more in the long run, whereas you can sell your weapons back for what you paid in the grand exchange. Could we make the staff of Zuriel last longer, and somehow make the spells a little cheaper? Perhaps I wouldn't be so reserved about using the staff if it didn't disintegrate within the hour, and this would in turn give me more of an edge over melee. Compfreak, would you be in favor of eliminating combos (Getting rid of spells delays, that is) and in turn giving magic specials? How about integrating miasmic barrage into the normal spellbook, as well?

 

 

 

P.S. I'm also in favor of making melee stronger against ranged. I'm not in favor of it becoming stronger against magic, though.

[compfreak847]

Yes, I agree with both of those; miasmic, however, would HAVE to be tweaked. The only thing keeping it from compltely decimating in PVP is the cost; the time should be reduced to 20 seconds at the most, to bring it more in line with barrage. Also, it should only be 1.5x on range.

[Veritas94]

Okay, fair enough. I'm fine with 20 seconds, as long as I don't have to pay a !@$%load per cast. It really detracts from the fun of magic at times. See Compfreak, I'm probably not as rich as you are in the game, so every time I use a spell, I squirm a little bit, because I know that this is coming directly out of my Runescape bank account. Whenever, I use melee or ranged, I'm more tolerant because I know I can pick up a majority of my arrows/sell my weapons back to the grand exchange. Also, I'd be okay with eliminating miasmic effects from ranged entirely; I'm perfectly okay with rangers kicking my butt, it's just melee I get frustrated with at times.

 

 

 

One last thing. This idea may run a little contrary to the points I was making before about letting mages hybrid more, but do you think it would be unreasonable to ask that miasmic spell effects only persist if you continue casting spells at your opponent? This would make the miasmic spell cater a little more to magic users rather than giving meleers/rangers a reason to abuse it and continue to use range/melee. I don't know, it's just a thought.

[compfreak847]

I don't think they need to; you need a significant mage bonus to use it effectively, and bringing mage armor for a 20 second boost seems a bad idea. I think it would be fine for rangers with a 1.5x effect instead of 2x.

[Obtaurian]

A warrior with the best gear available would decimate a ranger with the best gear available, assuming maxed levels, right? :-k Would a dark bow spec be dangerous to that warrior?

[Veritas94]

I don't think they need to; you need a significant mage bonus to use it effectively, and bringing mage armor for a 20 second boost seems a bad idea. I think it would be fine for rangers with a 1.5x effect instead of 2x.

 

 

 

Hmmm, I see what what you're saying. Yeah, I suppose that's true.

 

 

 

You know, I've always wondered why ancients freezes your opponent in place rather than slowing his movement a whole lot. In other games I've played, slowing melee is a lot more fun, frustrates the hell out of them because you're just out of reach, and makes game play a whole lot more dynamic because the mage is constantly on the move, and so is melee. Meh, I guess runescape will never be quite like WoW =P.

 

 

 

Edit: Mages in wow can frost nova (freeze) melee though, so I guess it is kinda similar.

[compfreak847]

Thankfully, it won't. Freezing spells are simply too powerful though; if you mentally time it, you can run for 2 seconds as soon as the meleer is unfrozen, then turn around and freeze without him getting within 10 squares of you.

[Veritas94]

Here is a WoW PvP video of an Undead mage. Runescape really fostered my love of mages and when I started playing WoW, I became obsessed with them (WoW differs from Runescape in that it's very reflexes and awareness based, rather then reliant on levels, like Runescape is. They're both really cool, though). I'm not sure how much you'll take away from this video if you watch it, but this guy plays on an extremely high level:

 

 

 

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/stream.ph ... 55&stream=

 

 

 

Anyway, I feel like we've made some progress on the P2P front. I feel that there will be a need to address F2P magic because higher level spells are lacking. If you have any thoughts, post them here pl0x :D.

[compfreak847]

Yup, no argument there; FTP mages maxes out too low. WOW looks nice, I like the whole 'personal skills, not levels' thing, but there's a lot more of that in RS then most people think, at least in mage (Melee = click attack, wait 5 minutes).

[Veritas94]

Yup, no argument there; FTP mages maxes out too low. WOW looks nice, I like the whole 'personal skills, not levels' thing, but there's a lot more of that in RS then most people think, at least in mage (Melee = click attack, wait 5 minutes).

 

 

 

Yeah, WoW's a ton of fun. If you're ever interested, send me a PM and I can set you up on a private server dedicated to PvP. It's free, so you don't have to worry about wasting money. I don't play WoW on the official servers, but private servers are basically the same thing (By private, I mean servers that are run independently, but still have thousand of players on them, =P).

 

 

 

But yeah, something needs to be done about F2P. Maybe wave spells would be a potential start. And allowing snare in F2P, that'd also help.

[compfreak847]

Yup, no argument there; FTP mages maxes out too low. WOW looks nice, I like the whole 'personal skills, not levels' thing, but there's a lot more of that in RS then most people think, at least in mage (Melee = click attack, wait 5 minutes).

 

 

 

Yeah, WoW's a ton of fun. If you're ever interested, send me a PM and I can set you up on a private server dedicated to PvP. It's free, so you don't have to worry about wasting money. I don't play WoW on the official servers, but private servers are basically the same thing (By private, I mean servers that are run independently, but still have thousand of players on them, =P).

 

 

 

But yeah, something needs to be done about F2P. Maybe wave spells would be a potential start. And allowing snare in F2P, that'd also help.

 

Used to play ToxicWow before it got shut down, but I'm fairly clueless. Not sure what the mods policy on this, but send me a PM.

[fenrir321]

Here is a WoW PvP video of an Undead mage. Runescape really fostered my love of mages and when I started playing WoW, I became obsessed with them (WoW differs from Runescape in that it's very reflexes and awareness based, rather then reliant on levels, like Runescape is. They're both really cool, though). I'm not sure how much you'll take away from this video if you watch it, but this guy plays on an extremely high level:

 

 

 

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/stream.ph ... 55&stream=

 

 

 

Anyway, I feel like we've made some progress on the P2P front. I feel that there will be a need to address F2P magic because higher level spells are lacking. If you have any thoughts, post them here pl0x :D.

 

Jagex could add some kiting spells like WoW has *cough*slow*cough*frostbolt*cough.

 

Magic isn't underpowered except in f2p where therein lacks a set of kiting spells to ward off meleers. Like comp said, it's overpowered. I'm much more afraid of a barrager than even a godsword or dark bow.

 

The problem is that the spells themselves aren't really overpowered. A single barrager will cause some minor damage in wargames like castle wars or soul wars. But even just two will begin to overpower the game (unless it's massive, like +200 people per side). This is because of a mechanic similar to suppressive fire where when if one dies, there's no moment of reprieve to regroup because of another barrager. However, if the spells were nerfed, then bottlenecking players would be very ineffective in soul wars. Therefore, the problem is the frequency of the spells in combat situations.

 

Because Desert treasure is ridiculously and shamefully easy to do with help, there are a bunch of people with ancients running around.

 

The only thing I can think of to sift out the frequency would add a higher requirement for the quest, include quest points, and possibly add a magic trainer like on WoW to drain some cash. That would discourage players from trying to go for ancients.

[Veritas94]

Okays, I sent ya a PM.

[Veritas94]

Jagex could add some kiting spells like WoW has *cough*slow*cough*frostbolt*cough.

 

 

 

OMG, another WoWer, :thumbsup: . Shatter combos FTW.

 

 

 

I haven't really thought of frequency of mages as that much of a problem. Maybe reducing the number of people that magic can hit? I'm fine with single target damage though, hehe.