Closed.

[Veritas94]

That does not mean we cannot continue discussing this. I have outlined my points - a mage can freeze, halve attack speeds, lower attacks by 35%, poison, and then proceed to heal off of the meleer, dealing 100+ damage and healing 25+ for every hit the meleer gets on him - and a skilled mage should NEVER get hit. I don't see how that's 'underpowered'; the meleer never even gets a chance to hit!

 

 

 

I <3 you too compfreak, :).

[compfreak847]

That does not mean we cannot continue discussing this. I have outlined my points - a mage can freeze, halve attack speeds, lower attacks by 35%, poison, and then proceed to heal off of the meleer, dealing 100+ damage and healing 25+ for every hit the meleer gets on him - and a skilled mage should NEVER get hit. I don't see how that's 'underpowered'; the meleer never even gets a chance to hit!

 

 

 

I <3 you too compfreak, :).

 

:P

 

 

 

I'll agree with your post if you find a way to counter that, based on the fact that the meleer never touches the mage and the mage is continuously healing and hitting 60+ in a single shot with unbelievable accuracy ;)

[Veritas94]

I've explained many times why I don't think that the above is true. No point in arguing.

 

 

 

My perspective: You're wrong, and you exaggerate the power of mages to the point where it has warped your view on magic so much as to blind you to ratio of mages/rangers/ and meleers in PvP worlds today, which in itself lends pressing evidence that the arguments in my original post are true.

 

 

 

Your perspective: I'm wrong, and I exaggerate the weakness of mages to the point where it has warped my views on the supposed "stunning" underlying power of mages today.

 

 

 

I will not concede. Magic is absolutely underpowered, it needs fixing in terms of its low damage, lack of specials, incapability to do over 30 damage using practical and efficient means, horrendously poor mitigation of melee damage, incapability to consistently freeze the enemy, and my only regret is that I can no longer make this post on the Runescape forums (because I haven't been a member in around a month and a half) so I could get an opinion directly from the game developers and mods themselves.

 

 

 

Every time we argue, our arguments are circular and pointless. I would highly suggest you stop directing your posts at me because that will get you nowhere.

[Hubs]

Compfreak: Please, enlighten me as to how a mage can lower attack by 35%, and beat an experienced meleer in 1v1 combat.

[compfreak847]

I've explained many times why I don't think that the above is true. No point in arguing.

 

 

 

My perspective: You're wrong, and you exaggerate the power of mages to the point where it has warped your view on magic so much as to blind you to ratio of mages/rangers/ and meleers in PvP worlds today, which in itself lends pressing evidence that the arguments in my original post are true.

 

 

 

Your perspective: I'm wrong, and I exaggerate the weakness of mages to the point where it has warped my views on the supposed "stunning" underlying power of mages today.

 

 

 

I will not concede. Magic is absolutely underpowered, it needs fixing in terms of its low damage, lack of specials, incapability to do over 30 damage using practical and efficient means, horrendously poor mitigation of melee damage, incapability to consistently freeze the enemy, and my only regret is that I can no longer make this post on the Runescape forums (because I haven't been a member in around a month and a half) so I could get an opinion directly from the game developers and mods themselves.

 

 

 

Every time we argue, our arguments are circular and pointless. I would highly suggest you stop directing your posts at me because that will get you nowhere.

 

Just answer this question. How can the meleer win, when he NEVER gets a chance to hit the mage ONCE.

 

 

 

Compfreak: Please, enlighten me as to how a mage can lower attack by 35%, and beat an experienced meleer in 1v1 combat.

 

Well, y'know, there's this WONDERFUL spell known as shadow barrage, with the AMAZING ability to lower attack by 15%! Enjoy the enlightenment. As for beating the meleer, the meleer with his 74 combat stats is going to find himself in a bit of trouble, seeings that he can never get within 5 squares of the mager, much less actually hit him. Perhaps you could explain how the meleer is going to win without ever touching his opponent, who is decimating with high hitting, accurate attacks that heal himself? :roll:

[Veritas94]

Just answer this question. How can the meleer win, when he NEVER gets a chance to hit the mage ONCE.

 

 

 

Use d'hide, get good defense, train magic for that lovely extra magic resistance, and use protect prayers. Simple.

 

 

 

P.S. Or ambush them with dragon claws. LOLOL.

 

 

 

P.P.S. Zammy godsword freeze, LOLOL.

[Hubs]

Compfreak: I recall you had posted 35%, not 15%. Funnily, the meleer can hit 33's with his extremely low 74 str with a dragon scimitar, while (oh my), the mage hits an astonishing 30 with ice barrage at 99 magic. The AMAZING HEALING you talk of can heal (omg) 7's at maximum, 3's on average. Usually, it will splash. The scenario you have described is a mage owning a noob. An experienced meleer will always bring dhide/karils.

 

 

 

Which brings me to another problem. Why is it that meleers recieve NO penalties while in mage/range gear, while mages are horribly penalized?

[Veritas94]

Compfreak: I recall you had posted 35%, not 15%. Funnily, the meleer can hit 33's with his extremely low 74 str with a dragon scimitar, while (oh my), the mage hits an astonishing 30 with ice barrage at 99 magic. The AMAZING HEALING you talk of can heal (omg) 7's at maximum, 3's on average. Usually, it will splash. The scenario you have described is a mage owning a noob. An experienced meleer will always bring dhide/karils.

 

 

 

Which brings me to another problem. Why is it that meleers recieve NO penalties while in mage/range gear, while mages are horribly penalized?

 

 

 

Don't you love Jagex's sense of balance?

[compfreak847]

Compfreak: I recall you had posted 35%, not 15%. Funnily, the meleer can hit 33's with his extremely low 74 str with a dragon scimitar, while (oh my), the mage hits an astonishing 30 with ice barrage at 99 magic. The AMAZING HEALING you talk of can heal (omg) 7's at maximum, 3's on average. Usually, it will splash. The scenario you have described is a mage owning a noob. An experienced meleer will always bring dhide/karils.

 

 

 

Which brings me to another problem. Why is it that meleers recieve NO penalties while in mage/range gear, while mages are horribly penalized?

 

You really don't read responses, do you. Already mentioned round about page 5 or so that a super set doesn't count at the 15%; dropping them 20% from the super set + 15% below normal = 35%.

 

 

 

As to the 'put on karils', fine, they are welcome to do that. I'll put on a whip and calmly proceed to slaughter them with higher slash defence then them while they are poisoned and way behind on damage with 35% lower attack and half the sped; I'll be outhitting them 3 to 1.

 

 

 

 

Don't you love Jagex's sense of balance?

 

Not really. The bad side is that mage is so overpowered; the good side is that most people don't know how to use it and think it is underpowered. So it's unbalanced for the few people who know how to use it, but fairly weak for those who don't.

 

 

 

 

P.S. Or ambush them with dragon claws. LOLOL.

 

 

 

P.P.S. Zammy godsword freeze, LOLOL.

 

Neither of those will ever touch me. The meleer cannot hit me without putting on d hide; with hit and run, he will never get within 5 squares of me.

[Veritas94]

As usual, the other parts of my post are left untouched. I'm not arguing with you any further.

 

 

 

By the way, I doubt you're as skilled as you really say you are, not that skill would even make a difference.

[compfreak847]

As usual, the other parts of my post are left untouched. I'm not arguing with you any further.

 

 

 

By the way, I doubt you're as skilled as you really say you are, not that skill would even make a difference.

 

I covered defence, prayer, melee weapons, and armor. Pray tell what else? Thanks for responding to my post by the way, it's nice how you make such logical arguments. :roll:

 

 

 

Not like you would have a clue about skill, or that it can be proved, but many players around these forms DO know that I spent a lot of time in PVP.

[pureprayer]

As usual, the other parts of my post are left untouched. I'm not arguing with you any further.

 

 

 

By the way, I doubt you're as skilled as you really say you are, not that skill would even make a difference.

 

I covered defence, prayer, melee weapons, and armor. Pray tell what else? Thanks for responding to my post by the way, it's nice how you make such logical arguments. :roll:

 

 

 

Not like you would have a clue about skill, or that it can be proved, but many players around these forms DO know that I spent a lot of time in PVP.

 

Yes yes yes.

[Veritas94]

As usual, the other parts of my post are left untouched. I'm not arguing with you any further.

 

 

 

By the way, I doubt you're as skilled as you really say you are, not that skill would even make a difference.

 

I covered defence, prayer, melee weapons, and armor. Pray tell what else? Thanks for responding to my post by the way, it's nice how you make such logical arguments. :roll:

 

 

 

Not like you would have a clue about skill, or that it can be proved, but many players around these forms DO know that I spent a lot of time in PVP.

 

 

 

I love your logic, too :roll: . You haven't covered any of them, actually, but I guess that's your warped sense of things that's speaking. Thank you for responding to my post, nice to see such solid thought processes at work.

 

 

 

^ See what I did there? Personal attacks really aren't the way to go because I can do them too and they don't get you anywhere. You haven't made an inch of progress towards disproving me.

 

 

 

As I said, I won't argue with you. We live in two very different worlds.

[compfreak847]

As usual, the other parts of my post are left untouched. I'm not arguing with you any further.

 

 

 

By the way, I doubt you're as skilled as you really say you are, not that skill would even make a difference.

 

I covered defence, prayer, melee weapons, and armor. Pray tell what else? Thanks for responding to my post by the way, it's nice how you make such logical arguments. :roll:

 

 

 

Not like you would have a clue about skill, or that it can be proved, but many players around these forms DO know that I spent a lot of time in PVP.

 

 

 

I love your logic, too :roll: . You haven't covered any of them, actually, but I guess that's your warped sense of things that's speaking. Thank you for responding to my post, nice to see such solid thought processes at work.

 

 

 

^ See what I did there? Personal attacks really aren't the way to go because I can do them too and they don't get you anywhere. You haven't made an inch of progress towards disproving me.

 

 

 

As I said, I won't argue with you. We live in two very different worlds.

 

Amazing. You continuously post with 'wow, your wrong, your an idiot, you didn't respond to my post completely'. Yet you refuse to respond to any of my points on the grounds that 'I'm not going to argue with you, your in a different world'.

 

 

 

Look, there's nothing wrong with a debate. Don't be scared of it. If you actually argued and made a point for yourself, this thread could turn into something meaningful. If you just stand by and bash my posts without responding to any of my points your only going to make yourself look bad and get this thread locked.

[Veritas94]

Amazing. You continuously post with 'wow, your wrong, your an idiot, you didn't respond to my post completely'. Yet you refuse to respond to any of my points on the grounds that 'I'm not going to argue with you, your in a different world'.

 

 

 

Look, there's nothing wrong with a debate. Don't be scared of it. If you actually argued and made a point for yourself, this thread could turn into something meaningful. If you just stand by and bash my posts without responding to any of my points your only going to make yourself look bad and get this thread locked.

 

 

 

I'm not going to argue with you on the grounds that this is becoming a circular debate (Do you know what this is?) which is similar to a religious debate. Have you seen Richard Dawkins vs. "X" religious person? If you have, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. You can't argue with religious people, and I'm NOT going to argue with you.

 

 

 

It's like you haven't read a single one of my responses AND counter responses to each and every post you've written here. This is my rant - I've said what I've had to say in my original post. People leave comments on the post. That's how it works. On my part, I've given you the privilege of discussing the validity of my points with me, yet I'm tired of speaking with you because our in-game experiences with magic differ so vastly, and for every component of magic you think is strong, I think it's weak. I've explained time and again the reasons behind my views, and you've explained yours. We're not making any headway. Enough is enough.

 

 

 

If you think I HAVE TO sit here and debate with you, you're sadly mistaken. That is not a rule of this forum. As long as you stop flaming me and, in turn, stop bashing my posts, then everything will be fine. By all means, continue posting here.

 

 

 

I'd advise you to stop resorting to personal attacks, though.

[compfreak847]

 

I'd advise you to stop resorting to personal attacks, though.

 

Do you know what personal attacks are? Hint: It's not telling someone else they are wrong. It's pointlessly flaming them with name calling and insults not accurate or relevant to the discussion.

 

 

 

This is not a 'circular' debate; this isn't even a debate! It's me posting a series of arguments, and you whining continuously about how you don't want to debate and how I should get off your thread. You have a right to your opinion; but I have a right to voice mine. You don't need to post every time after me saying 'wahh, you can't post on my thread, i don't want to argue with you'. I'm saying your wrong for X, Y, and Z reasons - your saying 'i don't want to debate with you!!!'. You don't have to respond to my arguments, but you certainly don't have to constantly post telling me not to say anything you don't agree with yet refusing to voice what you DO agree with. I fully intend to dispute and argue with every single post I don't agree with on this thread, and it's something I CAN do. It's not something your going to change by telling me you don't want to debate. If you don't want to debate, DON'T POST!

[Veritas94]

 

Do you know what personal attacks are? Hint: It's not telling someone else they are wrong. It's pointlessly flaming them with name calling and insults not accurate or relevant to the discussion.

 

This is not a 'circular' debate; this isn't even a debate! It's me posting a series of arguments, and you whining continuously about how you don't want to debate and how I should get off your thread.

 

 

 

Wrong. It's me posting a series of arguments and you responding to them. Yes, I'd call that a debate. And no, I'm not going to debate you further about the validity of my posts.

 

 

 

You have a right to your opinion; but I have a right to voice mine.

 

 

 

This is a valid statement. I don't disagree with you.

 

 

 

You don't need to post every time after me saying 'wahh, you can't post on my thread, i don't want to argue with you'. I'm saying your wrong for X, Y, and Z reasons - your saying 'i don't want to debate with you!!!'.

 

 

 

You're mentioning X, Y, and Z reasons you think I'm wrong, but the problem is I've already replied to X, Y, and Z reasons and I don't wish to do it again. You did get the part about, "I don't want to debate you!!!" correct, though.

 

 

 

You don't have to respond to my arguments, but you certainly don't have to constantly post telling me not to say anything you don't agree with yet refusing to voice what you DO agree with.

 

 

 

I believe I did say you're welcome to post here in my last reply, did I not? And it is advisable that you get off my thread, although I can't make you do it. This is of course, my opinion.

 

 

 

I fully intend to dispute and argue with every single post I don't agree with on this thread, and it's something I CAN do. It's not something your going to change by telling me you don't want to debate. If you don't want to debate, DON'T POST!

 

 

 

Yes, yes, I know you can post anywhere on tip.it forums. And no, I never did have any intention of restricting your posting privileges by telling you I don't want to debate. I just don't want to debate - don't attach any invisible string to my posts, alright?

[Obtaurian]

I have yet to see any of Compfreak's points disputed, and I've read this entire thread. If you have no experience with magic in PvP, you have no right to argue (or, in the OP's case, NOT argue) with someone who has clearly spent a lot of time testing it.

 

 

 

Comp asked a few simple questions, and I'd like to see them answered.

 

 

 

EDIT: This debate is not about personal views. Magic is easily on par with range and melee no matter who you are. It takes a little more finesse, but as Comp said, it helps to cull the eh... idiots.

 

 

 

^paraphrased

[Veritas94]

I'm sorry you feel my responses were inadequate. I feel they are adequate, and I feel I've addressed what's necessary.

 

 

 

I have also "clearly" spent a lot of time in PvP, or I wouldn't be writing a comprehensive post on magic PvPs deficiencies.

[Obtaurian]

I'm sorry you feel my responses were inadequate. I feel they are, and I feel I've addressed what's necessary.

 

 

 

I have also "clearly" spent a lot of time in it, or I wouldn't be writing a comprehensive post on magic PvPs deficiencies.

 

 

 

This is a debate forum. Your feelings are irrelevant. Now, please, post a proper response.

[Veritas94]

This is a rant forum to post one's thoughts on something they believe is wrong. Please, take a closer look at the rules.

[Obtaurian]

This is a rant forum to post one's thought. Please, take a closer look at the rules.

 

 

 

Any Tipiter worth his/her forum account knows that the rants forum is for people to post their qualms and for other people to tear them a new one using logic and/or superior knowledge. Traditionally, and for all intents and purposes, this is a debate forum.

[compfreak847]

I'm sorry you feel my responses were inadequate. I feel they are adequate, and I feel I've addressed what's necessary.

 

 

 

I have also "clearly" spent a lot of time in PvP, or I wouldn't be writing a comprehensive post on magic PvPs deficiencies.

 

As a response to this and the previous post, I will mention again - I have seen NO response to my magic tactics. Currently, I use magic to cripple the meleer and easily kill him if he's wearing metal armor; should he be foolish enough to switch to range, I can easily whip him to death with a 3 to 1 hit advantage + higher defence. I have yet to see your response to this. Once you type one, the debate can continue. Until then, don't bother posting about how you don't want to debate and 'feel' I'm wrong with no actual facts to back up your statements.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

This is a rant forum to post one's thoughts on something they believe is wrong. Please, take a closer look at the rules.

 

 

 

I did. Pray tell, where is the statement that says 'thou shalt not disagree with the original poster's point of view'?

[Veritas94]

Any Tipiter worth his/her forum account knows that the rants forum is for people to post their qualms and for other people to tear them a new one using logic and/or superior knowledge. Traditionally, and for all intents and purposes, this is a debate forum.

 

 

 

Link: http://listverse.com/bizarre/top-10-bizarre-traditions/

 

 

 

 

 

Footbinding was a custom practised on young females for approximately one thousand years in China, beginning in the 10th century and ending in the early 20th century. In Chinese foot binding, young girls feet, usually at age 6 but often earlier, were wrapped in tight bandages so that they could not grow and develop normally; they would, instead, break and become highly deformed, not growing past 4-6 inches (10-15 cm). Today, it is a prominent cause of disability among some elderly Chinese women.

 

 

 

Boundfeet

 

 

 

First, each foot would be soaked in a warm mixture of herbs and animal blood. This concoction caused any necrotised flesh to fall off. Then her toenails were cut back as far as possible to prevent ingrowth and subsequent infections. To prepare her for what was to come next the girls feet were delicately massaged. Silk or cotton bandages, ten feet long and two inches wide, were prepared by soaking in the same blood and herb mix as before. Each of the toes were then broken and wrapped in the wet bandages, which would constrict when drying, and pulled tightly downwards toward the heel. There may have been deep cuts made in the sole to facilitate this.

 

 

 

I don't like tradition.

[pureprayer]

I'm sorry you feel my responses were inadequate. I feel they are adequate, and I feel I've addressed what's necessary.

 

 

 

I have also "clearly" spent a lot of time in PvP, or I wouldn't be writing a comprehensive post on magic PvPs deficiencies.

 

As a response to this and the previous post, I will mention again - I have seen NO response to my magic tactics. Currently, I use magic to cripple the meleer and easily kill him if he's wearing metal armor; should he be foolish enough to switch to range, I can easily whip him to death with a 3 to 1 hit advantage + higher defence. I have yet to see your response to this. Once you type one, the debate can continue. Until then, don't bother posting about how you don't want to debate and 'feel' I'm wrong with no actual facts to back up your statements.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

This is a rant forum to post one's thoughts on something they believe is wrong. Please, take a closer look at the rules.

 

 

 

I did. Pray tell, where is the statement that says 'thou shalt not disagree with the original poster's point of view'?

 

Gratz on 3.7k posts.

 

 

 

I used to think magic was underpowered but now I just realized its expensive.