Closed.

[fenrir321]

There seems to be no reason for me to stick around either, so I'll leave with these arguments:

 

 

 

When Melee hybrids, they have dragonhide, which reduces physical defense for increased magic defense.

 

When Magic hybrids, all they do is change their weapon. Contrary to what replies have said, magic is NOT changing its attack style, it is adding. You can cast magic with a whip on.

 

 

 

As for the seercull attack, first off, yes it is quite annoying. In disagreement with Comp, I have hit +11 with rune arrows. Of course, if the mager is properly prepared with sup restores, they would be able to recover from that.

 

 

 

From what I understand, OP is asking Jagex to let a mager beat a melee hybrider all the time, win against TWO points of the triangle. 1 vs 2 is not favorable. If 1 won, then not only would that be a miracle of Guthix, but it would then be called overpowered. By using melee weapons, the fight becomes 2 vs 2.

 

 

 

No there is not "ko" attack, but as Comp has demonstrated, ice blitz delayed action works well. The most f2p has is a scimmy speed/rune 2h combo for a ko.

[Loffelicious]

You've written a good rant, and I do agree with both your arguments. But I also must agree on some of the arguments which take into perspective the usefulness of magic outside of combat. I would say, that even though magic is not a good combat skill, it has to be one of the most useful skills in game.

[undeadshadow]

Since the rant is over I would like to ask some questions...

 

 

 

I've made a pure and have 40 range (for green d hides).

 

 

 

I have 37 magic (for teleing around)

 

 

 

and 40 att and 50 str...

 

 

 

Someone mentioned that my mage defense counts on my mage lvl so if I was wondering if...

 

A. if they actually had proof (not arguing against them but i would be interested in the results)?

 

 

 

B. in f2p the best damage spell a mage uses is fire blast... does that mean if he/she had 70 magic his/hers would be more accurate then if he/she had 59 magic?

 

 

 

C. If i had 70 magic would this counter it?

[Moad14]

Since the rant is over I would like to ask some questions...

 

 

 

I've made a pure and have 40 range (for green d hides).

 

 

 

I have 37 magic (for teleing around)

 

 

 

and 40 att and 50 str...

 

 

 

Someone mentioned that my mage defense counts on my mage lvl so if I was wondering if...

 

A. if they actually had proof (not arguing against them but i would be interested in the results)?

 

 

 

B. in f2p the best damage spell a mage uses is fire blast... does that mean if he/she had 70 magic his/hers would be more accurate then if he/she had 59 magic?

 

 

 

C. If i had 70 magic would this counter it?

This probably belongs in Help and Advice, but I'll answer the questions.

 

 

 

1. Yes, the higher your level the more resistant you are to magical attacks.

 

2. Yes, the higher the magic level, the better.

 

3. If you mean counter as in blocking the spell, no. Nobody is immune to magical attacks. However, if you mean counter as in having a better chance of surviving, then see answer 1.

[sees_all1]

 

C. If i had 70 magic would this counter it?

 

 

 

My magic level is 75. I've been in situations where I'm wearing full rune and I'm up against someone who mages me. They had 60 mage, and about every other was a splash. Go figure.

 

 

 

-sees

[Wongtong]

Nice picture of cookie monster. :thumbup:

[compfreak847]

With all the hybriding going on here it's surprising they even have room left for food and pots :D

 

 

 

I kid, I kid...

 

Mage needs whip, melee needs d hide. It's not a huge waste, 1 space for the mage. Make that 3 with a torag's top\veracs skirt to easily take down rangers, and your a perfect killing machine. Guess what outfit is my favorite for PVP

[MotherBrainII]

You can use a whip, Torag's plate and Verac's Skirt, and still have decent magic offense?

 

 

 

Also, how can you use combos to hit 60+ *in a single attack turn*?

[compfreak847]

You can use a whip, Torag's plate and Verac's Skirt, and still have decent magic offense?

 

 

 

Also, how can you use combos to hit 60+ *in a single attack turn*?

 

It's timing, not combat turns that matter. Dark bow is slow, yet only takes 1 turn. A magic combo is roughly the speed of dark bow, yet takes 2. It also makes a great fight starter; after that your opponent is frozen and it becomes more about damage rather then KOs, as he can continuously eat until he is out. But if he's frozen, he's not going anywhere - or teleblocked\bound outside of wild, with COG being constantly casted. I do very well with that combo also, but ancients are still fun.

[MotherBrainII]

(Note I'm discussing here, not arguing, as for the most part I agree with you)

 

 

 

Ah, so you opt for the long drawn out fight in a specialised area rather than the anti-mage environment most seem to fight in?

 

 

 

Seems reasonable, and perhaps explains why I do so much better maging in the DA than anywhere else.

 

 

 

If you were to use pure magic offense gear and mostly disregard defense, how accurately would you hit on high mage defense? Armadyl only has about a +20 magic defense advantage over dragonhide, and I see no reason why a +30-40 increase in magic attack would not be enough to offset this. If anyone here has the items required for +146 magic attack, I'd like to see how accurately you hit on Karil's, Armadyl, and Morrigan's (though nobody uses that - perhaps the fact that I completely disregard expense when maging puts me at a huge advantage against those who do not?)

 

 

 

On a side note, in pure magic offense gear (+135 attack, I can certainly do better) and +27 mage defense, I recently managed to take down a Crystal Bow user using Miasmic Barrage. Sure is underpowered against range, huh?

 

 

 

EDIT: Off topic a bit, but my current hypothetical all-purpose mage PVP outfit is Zuriel's Staff, Verac's Helm, Zuriel's top and legs, Barrows Gloves, Infinity Boots, Seers Ring, an Arcane Spirit Shield, a cape from the Mage Arena, and a Fury. Do you have any suggestions on how I can improve this?

[compfreak847]

(Note I'm discussing here, not arguing, as for the most part I agree with you)

 

 

 

Ah, so you opt for the long drawn out fight in a specialised area rather than the anti-mage environment most seem to fight in?

 

 

 

Seems reasonable, and perhaps explains why I do so much better maging in the DA than anywhere else.

 

 

 

If you were to use pure magic offense gear and mostly disregard defense, how accurately would you hit on high mage defense? Armadyl only has about a +20 magic defense advantage over dragonhide, and I see no reason why a +30-40 increase in magic attack would not be enough to offset this. If anyone here has the items required for +146 magic attack, I'd like to see how accurately you hit on Karil's, Armadyl, and Morrigan's (though nobody uses that - perhaps the fact that I completely disregard expense when maging puts me at a huge advantage against those who do not?)

 

 

 

On a side note, in pure magic offense gear (+135 attack, I can certainly do better) and +27 mage defense, I recently managed to take down a Crystal Bow user using Miasmic Barrage. Sure is underpowered against range, huh?

 

I do great in my +78 defensive gear; very few people bring karils or armadyl to PVP, even in clan wars, and against black d hide I have no problem. Also, the vast majority of rangers use crossbows or MSB - which has a shorter range then my spells. I simply step back, and I'm free to mage them without getting hit.

[MotherBrainII]

Hmm, you do mean +78 attack, right? (And what outfit is this?)

 

 

 

If so, then the +50 increase in magic attack seems to do very little against Karil's and Armadyl's. Seems rather odd, and makes me wonder if there is a certain threshold at which magic becomes much less accurate, rather than a gradual decrease.

 

 

 

And what DO you do when you come across someone in karil's or Armadyl's? I like to be prepared for all situations, lol.

 

 

 

Also, how much longer is magic's range than the MSB and Crossbow, and am I correct in thinking that people using longrange can offset this difference? (Not that a lot are smart enough to, and it still reduces their attack speed, but still)

 

 

 

I edited my post while you were posting (ignore this if you also edited yours).

[compfreak847]

Hmm, you do mean +78 attack, right? (And what outfit is this?)

 

 

 

If so, then the +50 increase in magic attack seems to do very little against Karil's and Armadyl's. Seems rather odd, and makes me wonder if there is a certain threshold at which magic becomes much less accurate, rather than a gradual decrease.

 

 

 

And what DO you do when you come across someone in karil's or Armadyl's? I like to be prepared for all situations, lol.

 

 

 

Also, how much longer is magic's range than the MSB and Crossbow, and am I correct in thinking that people using longrange can offset this difference? (Not that a lot are smart enough to, and it still reduces their attack speed, but still)

 

 

 

I edited my post while you were posting (ignore this if you also edited yours).

 

+ Arcane Shield = +207 slash defence, +135 range defence, +121 magic offense. Best offensive-oriented outfit IMO. I keep whip + torag body + verac's plateskirt + Zuriel's Staff in invo, and when I come across a ranger, I miasmic barrage until that hits, then switch to whip\torag body\plateskirt and own him with melee. It's the ultimate hybrid outfit.

[MotherBrainII]

So is a Master Wand worth using over an Ancient Staff? I mean, not being able to autocast could be a hassle.

 

 

 

I guess just using Zuriel's Staff the whole time is also an option.

[compfreak847]

So is a Master Wand worth using over an Ancient Staff? I mean, not being able to autocast could be a hassle.

 

 

 

I guess just using Zuriel's Staff the whole time is also an option.

 

It's too expensive with too little of a magic bonus. You can swap the staff for an ancient one, but I prefer the wand. That way you don't have to worry about autocasting a spell you didn't want to (say, blood barrage when your trying to freeze someone).

[MotherBrainII]

Ah, I see. I think using a Master Wand would make it harder to eat/prayer switch, so an ancient staff would probably be better. That and the fact you don't have to worry about clicking on someone by accident and uselessly meleeing them, which would be far worse than an accidental blood barrage (I tend to have Ice Barrage on autocast anyway, so I can freeze them at short notice).

[compfreak847]

It's more of a personal thing, I guess. If you can click fast\don't mind the hassle, master wand's nice.

[Roberthree]

Range:

 

Ranger can Beat a mager in range gear.

 

Ranger can beat meleer if the ranger puts a few bits of melee armour on.

 

 

 

Melee:

 

Melee can beat magers by wearing dhide.

 

Melee can beat rangers by wearing melee gear

 

 

 

Mages:

 

Mages beat warriors assuming the warrior doesn't pack dhides.

 

Mages loose to rangers period.

 

Mages loose to a meleer in dhide

 

 

 

So basically as long as the opposition isn't incompetent, mage always looses or is forced to attack another way. By switching to a whip/dds to attack the meleer in dhides you are no longer a mage, you are a meleer. Mage is clearly the weakest of the combat types. It's armour and DPS sucks so badly that the special effects are negligible, unless you're packing two combat types.

[compfreak847]

Range:

 

Ranger can Beat a mager in range gear.

 

Ranger can beat meleer if the ranger puts a few bits of melee armour on.

 

 

 

Melee:

 

Melee can beat magers by wearing dhide.

 

Melee can beat rangers by wearing melee gear

 

 

 

Mages:

 

Mages beat warriors assuming the warrior doesn't pack dhides.

 

Mages loose to rangers period.

 

Mages loose to a meleer in dhide

 

 

 

So basically as long as the opposition isn't incompetent, mage always looses or is forced to attack another way. By switching to a whip/dds to attack the meleer in dhides you are no longer a mage, you are a meleer. Mage is clearly the weakest of the combat types. It's armour and DPS sucks so badly that the special effects are negligible, unless you're packing two combat types.

 

Magic is able to cast spells while weilding a weapon of a different combat class thanks to its huge boost from robes. The spells that it casts will completely cripple a meleer or ranger. By simply keeping a whip and torags in invo, a mage can easily take out any other combat style, including range. Meleer can have his attack speed halved, 100+ damage dealt, poisoned, and with attack reduced by 30%, THEN have to fight someone with better bonuses then him. LOSS. A ranger will have to fight a meleer with top defence while poisoned and attacking at half his normal speed. LOSS.

[MotherBrainII]

Or the mage could use Miasmic spells and go all out against the ranger with attack bonus while still having an almost okay range defense, since he will now be dealing more damage per minute. He can combine this with ice spells to prevent the ranger from attacking if he is good enough, thereby owning the ranger without even having to hybrid. LOSS. Loss exacerbated by the fact that most rangers just wear melee tanking gear not expecting to get attacked by a mage, thereby negating their mage defense advantage.

 

 

 

I can vouch for the fact that dragonhide is nearly useless against my mage attacks, at least. It just reduces my hit rate from about 99% to about 90%, and if my first attack hits, my opponent is dead anyway.

 

 

 

And sorry to drag on about this, but I've heard from a couple of sources that autocasting ancients with an ancient staff increases your attack speed to that of a whip. Can you confirm or refute this?

[compfreak847]

Or the mage could use Miasmic spells and go all out against the ranger with attack bonus while still having an almost okay range defense, since he will now be dealing more damage per minute. He can combine this with ice spells to prevent the ranger from attacking if he is good enough, thereby owning the ranger without even having to hybrid. LOSS. Loss exacerbated by the fact that most rangers just wear melee tanking gear not expecting to get attacked by a mage, thereby negating their mage defense advantage.

 

 

 

I can vouch for the fact that dragonhide is nearly useless against my mage attacks, at least. It just reduces my hit rate from about 99% to about 90%, and if my first attack hits, my opponent is dead anyway.

 

 

 

And sorry to drag on about this, but I've heard from a couple of sources that autocasting ancients with an ancient staff increases your attack speed to that of a whip. Can you confirm or refute this?

 

The only time I've ever heard about it being faster was some mention from the quest guy about it, but I recently tried to find evidence and found nothing about it on the KB. I concluded that the 'faster' was talking about it being able to autocast. I know it isn't noticeable, if it does. Someday I should test it in the duel arena with a friend, but meh.

[ghoulmeister]

What the hell is this?

 

HAS ANYONE VISITED AN F2P WORLD RECENTLY AND SEEN A MAGE SUCCEEDING?

 

 

 

I was in f2p pvp about a day ago, and I got destroyed by a mage, was in full Green d'hide too. Then I put on full addy and got killed by a ranger. (This was a different account, level 55, 35 defense, 40 magic, 40 range, and I can't remember the other stats.)

[Penguinisme]

So:What do you hope to gain from this thread? supporters? or actual solutions to your problems? at the moment it's the first...

 

 

 

well this is a rants topic so he can cry out whatever he wants... :P

 

for the rest i totaly agree with you(undead, comp...) that you don't have to get upsaid because u lose in PvP when u totaly ignore the fact that

 

ur the only1 who doesn't want to change for the better...

 

 

 

you've well explained that the melee wairs DRAGON HIDE, a RANGE armor so why the hell don't u use melee weapons??

 

cuz u gotta change ur staff?? oh poor u, changing a whip 4 a dds costs as much time as changing staff into whip(or other)

 

about the time u use for changing whip into staff and put in autocasting... be smart and when he puts on some less magedefencive armor u use a little ice spell and u got the time u need (anyway maging isnt realy made for autocasting so u shouldnt have to care then)

 

 

 

so, as 1 of the other posters has said, if pking changes, u gotta change to or drown...

 

about melee dont have to pay 4 the weapons he uses, no. but he has to train 2 or even 3 skills to be able to count as an dangerous pker

 

and u said urself, time is money and ask any1 with high melee stats how much time it costed to raise those precious skills!

 

 

 

You don't get it. The meleer can melee with DRAGONHIDE, which as you said, is a RANGE ARMOR. But when a mage tries to hybrid, the mage can not MAGE with MELEE ARMOR. So the mage is forced to switch to a MELEE WEAPON, so at this point the mage is NO LONGER a mage, he or she is now a MELEER. It is not fair that a meleer can hybrid, while a mage can not.

[compfreak847]

So:What do you hope to gain from this thread? supporters? or actual solutions to your problems? at the moment it's the first...

 

 

 

well this is a rants topic so he can cry out whatever he wants... :P

 

for the rest i totaly agree with you(undead, comp...) that you don't have to get upsaid because u lose in PvP when u totaly ignore the fact that

 

ur the only1 who doesn't want to change for the better...

 

 

 

you've well explained that the melee wairs DRAGON HIDE, a RANGE armor so why the hell don't u use melee weapons??

 

cuz u gotta change ur staff?? oh poor u, changing a whip 4 a dds costs as much time as changing staff into whip(or other)

 

about the time u use for changing whip into staff and put in autocasting... be smart and when he puts on some less magedefencive armor u use a little ice spell and u got the time u need (anyway maging isnt realy made for autocasting so u shouldnt have to care then)

 

 

 

so, as 1 of the other posters has said, if pking changes, u gotta change to or drown...

 

about melee dont have to pay 4 the weapons he uses, no. but he has to train 2 or even 3 skills to be able to count as an dangerous pker

 

and u said urself, time is money and ask any1 with high melee stats how much time it costed to raise those precious skills!

 

 

 

You don't get it. The meleer can melee with DRAGONHIDE, which as you said, is a RANGE ARMOR. But when a mage tries to hybrid, the mage can not MAGE with MELEE ARMOR. So the mage is forced to switch to a MELEE WEAPON, so at this point the mage is NO LONGER a mage, he or she is now a MELEER. It is not fair that a meleer can hybrid, while a mage can not.

 

And that is where you are WRONG. The mage is USING his spells AS an ADVANTAGE to help HIM defeat THE meleer by PROVIDING a 3-1 advantage IN hitting power, and THE threat of magic SPELLS to keep the MELEER from using DECENT armor, thereby INSURING his decimation.

 

 

 

See, I can capitalize random letters too...

[warrior5024]

The only problem with Magic is that people don't treat is as a combat class. If a Meleer or Ranger attacks somebody, most people won't use protection prayers against them, and they won't be teamed. Magic however, everybody slaps on Magic Protect and, even if it was a 1 on 1 fight, nobody honors it. You'll get tagged for using Magic and teamed, while, in normal situations, that wouldn't happen in Ranger/Melee fights.

 

Magic has great power, people just need to realize and respect it.