Closed.

[kudos6969]

you can always use a spirit shield as defense as a mage, goes nice with a dharok helm, or if pkin using a torag helm. (item protect to save ya shield)

 

 

 

the miasmic spells arent to bad if you remember to unequip the staff as soon as you cast it.

 

 

 

combos with slow spells like ice barrage and instant ones like shadow barrage.

 

 

 

and of course to be a proper pker you should be using atleast 2! forms of combat not one on its own thats just fail pkin.

[daniels911]

you can always use a spirit shield as defense as a mage, goes nice with a dharok helm, or if pkin using a torag helm. (item protect to save ya shield)

 

 

 

the miasmic spells arent to bad if you remember to unequip the staff as soon as you cast it.

 

 

 

combos with slow spells like ice barrage and instant ones like shadow barrage.

 

 

 

and of course to be a proper pker you should be using atleast 2! forms of combat not one on its own thats just fail pkin.

 

A elysian spirit sheild costs around 1.5bill street price.

[JacTise69]

First off I would like to say that I completely agree that magic is not successful in the combat triangle and I do think it needs reworking/a new spellbook or something to give higher powered attacks.

 

 

 

As far as it being underpowered in KOing ability I disagree in some respect though, mostly because of this guide

 

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=103&t=777299

 

 

 

Read the section on the triple stack combo and tell me what you think about the KOing power of magic when used correctly.

[compfreak847]

First off I would like to say that I completely agree that magic is not successful in the combat triangle and I do think it needs reworking/a new spellbook or something to give higher powered attacks.

 

 

 

As far as it being underpowered in KOing ability I disagree in some respect though, mostly because of this guide

 

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=103&t=777299

 

 

 

Read the section on the triple stack combo and tell me what you think about the KOing power of magic when used correctly.

 

It is only weak when it is used incorrectly. Used correctly, a mage can take down melee or range with ease, taking little or no damage. It could use a nerf in my opinion.

[JacTise69]

First off I would like to say that I completely agree that magic is not successful in the combat triangle and I do think it needs reworking/a new spellbook or something to give higher powered attacks.

 

 

 

As far as it being underpowered in KOing ability I disagree in some respect though, mostly because of this guide

 

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=103&t=777299

 

 

 

Read the section on the triple stack combo and tell me what you think about the KOing power of magic when used correctly.

 

It is only weak when it is used incorrectly. Used correctly, a mage can take down melee or range with ease, taking little or no damage. It could use a nerf in my opinion.

 

 

 

The fact that it is used incorrectly is pretty much what I was saying in my post. If you read the guide you know what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that people that are stuck without ancients need a more viable way of hitting harder. The max for normal spells is only 20, 25 with Iban's Staff (with only 250 casts so who uses that) and 30 with the God spells and Charge. None of these (with the exception of the God spells and charge) can match ancients as far as damage goes and none of them can compete with the special effects of ancient spells. What I suggest is that the damage for the normal spells keep a consistent pattern of going up 2 damage with every spell increase (air strike to water strike is 2 damage to 4 damage and that continues til fire strike at 8 damage. After that it only goes up by one each time until it hits fire wave at 20) which would increase fire waves damage to 32. Then every five levels the max damage potential for each spell would go up by 1, maxing fire wave out at 36 (37 if you get to lvl 100 boost from cape or a potion).

 

 

 

I know this idea is flawed (which I'm sure a numerous amount of people will be more than happy to point out) but there needs to be a way for the regular spell books to hit higher damage in light of the fact that they have no special abilities to go with each spell.

[compfreak847]

 

I know this idea is flawed (which I'm sure a numerous amount of people will be more than happy to point out) but there needs to be a way for the regular spell books to hit higher damage in light of the fact that they have no special abilities to go with each spell.

 

What? Regular mage has teleblock etc, invaluable for low level PKing in combination with an ancients friend.

 

 

 

Besides, the whole 'one spell book is underpowered for pking' thing is bogus. Regular mage is designed for all around usage, ancients are for PKing. It's like saying that melee is absurdly underpowered when using a rubber chicken.

[quelmotz]

then why dont you say that melee/ranged is not powerful when you dont use them correctly? i know why. They are extremely simple to use and everyone knows how to use them, whereas mage requires a lot of thinking, quick reflexes, good strategies, etc etc.

 

I think the normal spellbook suggestion can work out, but i diasgree with the max of 36, but im ok with the 32 max. Maybe there should be new ancient spellbook spells, or maybe a whole new spellbook since ancient spellbook is quite full now. Or maybe an add-on to lunar spellbook with a few powerful spells? Maybe after a grandmaster quest, there would be a new spellbook only for very high lvl mages.

 

 

 

P.S. what is the difference betwen freezing and stunning?

 

 

 

Suggestions:

 

Condemnation of Death lvl 77

 

Lowers enemy prayer by 20% of max

 

Piercing Presence lvl 80

 

Lowers enemy defence by 20%

 

Curse of enervation lvl 83

 

Lowers enemy str by 20%

 

Cosmic Blast lvl 84

 

Stuns for 3 seconds. Max 28

 

Disorientating Mist lvl 86

 

Lowers enemy attack by 20%

 

Entwine lvl 88

 

Binds enemy for 20 seconds

 

Lunar Blitz lvl 89

 

Freezes for 8 sec. Max 34

 

Drain soul lvl 91

 

Lowers enemy mage by 20%

 

Supernova Barrage lvl 94

 

Blasts enemy back 1-3 squares. Max 40

 

Fog of uncertainty lvl 95

 

Lowers enemy range by 20%

 

Doom lvl 97

 

Lowers enemy str, atk, def, range by 15%

 

Black hole lvl 99

 

Binds for 25 seconds. Max 45

[Xx_Flare_xX]

Since 2009 is the year Jagex finally fixes the game I hope they also fix magic.

 

 

 

The new staff in PVP is a complete joke, 15 mins? it takes about 20 mins just finding someone your fancy killing.

 

they should make it degrade after a week ;)

 

 

 

I support this thread and I support the new spells idea someone made (the black hole spell at 99 owns)

[JacTise69]

 

I know this idea is flawed (which I'm sure a numerous amount of people will be more than happy to point out) but there needs to be a way for the regular spell books to hit higher damage in light of the fact that they have no special abilities to go with each spell.

 

What? Regular mage has teleblock etc, invaluable for low level PKing in combination with an ancients friend.

 

 

 

Besides, the whole 'one spell book is underpowered for pking' thing is bogus. Regular mage is designed for all around usage, ancients are for PKing. It's like saying that melee is absurdly underpowered when using a rubber chicken.

 

 

 

I don't know how you can make the rubber chicken comparison, for one the rubber chicken is free for those who have it, and not everyone has it. Also as far as the normal spell book being only for all around usage tell that to all the kids in F2P that don't have access to ancients. And even for all around usage it blows, you never see anyone using magic at any high end bosses (asides from occasionally lunar for the support spells but they are never pure mages) because they can not deal any damage effectively and they have no defensive support. There should be an increase to the spell damage of the normal spells as well as an addition to a defensive spell that increases defense. So instead of getting torn apart by every monster they can't safe spot they can actually stand in combat.

[compfreak847]

 

I don't know how you can make the rubber chicken comparison, for one the rubber chicken is free for those who have it, and not everyone has it. Also as far as the normal spell book being only for all around usage tell that to all the kids in F2P that don't have access to ancients. And even for all around usage it blows, you never see anyone using magic at any high end bosses (asides from occasionally lunar for the support spells but they are never pure mages) because they can not deal any damage effectively and they have no defensive support. There should be an increase to the spell damage of the normal spells as well as an addition to a defensive spell that increases defense. So instead of getting torn apart by every monster they can't safe spot they can actually stand in combat.

 

 

 

FTP has already been discussed, and this isn't what the author is talking about. As for general usage, you've NEVER seen anyone tele from or to a boss, or in regular RS usage? Never seen anyone high alch? Never seen anyone use a teletab? I think you should be a bit more observant.

 

 

 

Now, as I was saying, regular mage is for everday usage spells with a bit of cheap combat spells thrown in; ancients are for PKing. Virtually anyone in PVP can do DT, it requires ~60 combat and 11 prayer.

[quelmotz]

compfreak, you didnt even reply to me. and furthermore, magic is not i repeat, not a support skill used for teleporting, high alching, etc. anyway, high alching is >usually< only used to train mage, not as a practical use. Since magic is a part of the combat triangle, That means it is not meant to be a support skill which is what you are saying so this proves you wrong. Period.

[Moad14]

compfreak, you didnt even reply to me. and furthermore, magic is not i repeat, not a support skill used for teleporting, high alching, etc. anyway, high alching is >usually< only used to train mage, not as a practical use. Since magic is a part of the combat triangle, That means it is not meant to be a support skill which is what you are saying so this proves you wrong. Period.

I didn't think he needed to respond, seeing as your post probably belongs with all the others in the Suggestions sub-forum in the RSOF.

 

 

 

However, Modern Magic is extremely useful. Let's use an Aviansie run as the example. You teleport to Trollheim. You run down and start killing the creatures and receive a pair of rune limbs, which you proceed to alch. After a little while, you run low on food and cast bones-to-peaches. When you are finally finished, you teleport out and dance on the pile of money you just made. I see four practical applications there, and that was just a single example in the wide world of RuneScape.

 

Though one can indeed player-kill with magic, quelmotz, it's also quite good as a support skill. Why question what Magic's purpose is, rather than how to use it most effectively?

[compfreak847]

magic is not i repeat, not a support skill used for teleporting, high alching, etc.

 

Really? You don't use teleports, high alcs, bones to peaches etc.? I'm sorry, your in the minority. Most people I know do, including myself. When I want to PK I go switch to ancients.

 

 

 

And a rubber chicken still sucks for melee. Therefore, melee is absurdly underpowered. Rubber chicken = melee = part of the combat triangle, so by your irrefutable logic, a rubber chicken is severely underpowered if you cannot kill a ranger with it.

 

 

 

Think before you post.

[Veritas94]

then why dont you say that melee/ranged is not powerful when you dont use them correctly? i know why. They are extremely simple to use and everyone knows how to use them, whereas mage requires a lot of thinking, quick reflexes, good strategies, etc etc.

 

I think the normal spellbook suggestion can work out, but i diasgree with the max of 36, but im ok with the 32 max. Maybe there should be new ancient spellbook spells, or maybe a whole new spellbook since ancient spellbook is quite full now. Or maybe an add-on to lunar spellbook with a few powerful spells? Maybe after a grandmaster quest, there would be a new spellbook only for very high lvl mages.

 

 

 

P.S. what is the difference betwen freezing and stunning?

 

 

 

Suggestions:

 

Condemnation of Death lvl 77

 

Lowers enemy prayer by 20% of max

 

Piercing Presence lvl 80

 

Lowers enemy defence by 20%

 

Curse of enervation lvl 83

 

Lowers enemy str by 20%

 

Cosmic Blast lvl 84

 

Stuns for 3 seconds. Max 28

 

Disorientating Mist lvl 86

 

Lowers enemy attack by 20%

 

Entwine lvl 88

 

Binds enemy for 20 seconds

 

Lunar Blitz lvl 89

 

Freezes for 8 sec. Max 34

 

Drain soul lvl 91

 

Lowers enemy mage by 20%

 

Supernova Barrage lvl 94

 

Blasts enemy back 1-3 squares. Max 40

 

Fog of uncertainty lvl 95

 

Lowers enemy range by 20%

 

Doom lvl 97

 

Lowers enemy str, atk, def, range by 15%

 

Black hole lvl 99

 

Binds for 25 seconds. Max 45

 

 

 

Excellent suggestions. Keep it up =)

 

 

 

(Although I disagree with the part about having to do a grandmaster quest to get them.)

 

 

 

P.S. Hooray, teleblock is now F2P!!! AND new Jagex CEO Mark vows to change game mechanics. Perhaps there is hope after all :).

[compfreak847]

 

P.S. Hooray, teleblock is now F2P!!! AND new Jagex CEO Mark vows to change game mechanics. Perhaps there is hope after all :).

 

Hope that they will nerf magic. I hate getting beat by a mage in full armadyl with ranging gear :thumbdown:

[Veritas94]

We'll see. Only time will tell, but I like their current direction with giving teleblock to F2P.

 

 

 

Time will tell.

 

 

 

P.S. I also like the fact that the censor is more loose now, too.

[Imamonkey]

I couldn't bring myself to read every bit of this horrible mess, since I jumped on this wagon late. I am not very experienced at using mage as far as combat, so I can't really say this is how you should handle it. Sounds to me some pretty good things have been suggested to overcome the problem of maging the meleers?

 

 

 

Sounds like to me you don't have a problem with the meleers having to adapt as long as you don't have to adapt. Sure, meleers adapt, so you have to too. Sorry it can't be simple and easy for you. I suppose I could argue that a meleer would have to bring good armour to have to protect from being ambushed by another meleer too. Or he just takes that chance. But what do you care, as long as it isn't your problem! As long as it is simple and easy for you!

[quelmotz]

I am saying that magic is not meant to only support combat or do other stuff like teleporting. Im sorry i wasnt clear enough.

 

 

 

Anyway, this thread is about how weak magic is in combat so will you all just shut up about teleing, alching, bones-to-peaches-ing and stuff. I know you all will say "alching is important for changing the drops you get in combat to coins, fool!" but that is NOT combat, it is a result of combat. "teleing is used to get to combat places and to escape, fool!" so? that is not combat. "bones-to-peaches is used to make food, fool!" so? foodmaking is not combat. if it was, in your logic, cooking should be a combat skill too.

 

 

 

BTW. you can cast magic using a useless wep such as rubber chickens/pickaxe handles so what the hell is your point about melee using rubber chickens? the only "class" that i cant say anything about is range because they cant range with rubber chickens/pickaxe handles.

 

 

 

P.S. I did not say anything about rubber chickens earlier, it was some other guy called JacTise69.

 

 

 

P.S.S thanks for the support elusefelier. i thought it should be a grandmaster quest to prevent people like compfreak from saying it was overpowered, but it actually should be just up to jagex.

[compfreak847]

I am saying that magic is not meant to only support combat or do other stuff like teleporting. Im sorry i wasnt clear enough.

 

 

 

Anyway, this thread is about how weak magic is in combat so will you all just shut up about teleing, alching, bones-to-peaches-ing and stuff. I know you all will say "alching is important for changing the drops you get in combat to coins, fool!" but that is NOT combat, it is a result of combat. "teleing is used to get to combat places and to escape, fool!" so? that is not combat. "bones-to-peaches is used to make food, fool!" so? foodmaking is not combat. if it was, in your logic, cooking should be a combat skill too.

 

 

 

BTW. you can cast magic using a useless wep such as rubber chickens/pickaxe handles so what the hell is your point about melee using rubber chickens? the only "class" that i cant say anything about is range because they cant range with rubber chickens/pickaxe handles.

 

 

 

P.S. I did not say anything about rubber chickens earlier, it was some other guy called JacTise69.

 

 

 

P.S.S thanks for the support elusefelier. i thought it should be a grandmaster quest to prevent people like compfreak from saying it was overpowered, but it actually should be just up to jagex.

 

You COMPLETELY missed my point. I can restate it again for you:

 

 

 

Normal magic is for general monster killing\every day handy magic usage. Ancients are for PKing. And ancients are FAR too powerful - magic needs a nerf. Right now it's a joke against melee and as effective or more so then range.

[quelmotz]

Mage is overpowered?!!?!?!?! thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard. mage cant even get through plate armor properly in f2p clan wars. Just put on dhide and on protect from mage and mages cant do anything. and mages are slow like hell. Mage armor is weak against both melee and ranged. ranged armor is weak against melee but it is much better than mage in melee defence. melee armor is weak against mage but has damn high ranged and melee defence. see who is underpowered? Melee can wear range, mage armor without any penalties. obviously they can wear mage, but who ever does it? range can wear mage armor without penalties. this is not such a big problem since mage armor is like crap. mage cant wear range/melee armor without suffering severe penalties. unfair isnt it? and dont tell me it is logical that melee can wear other armor that is lighter and wont suffer any penalties. this is a GAME for goodness's sake.

 

 

 

"mage can attack from range" so can range. "mage can farcast further than range" so? with run on you'll catch up in less than a second more. "mage can freeze, steal hp, blah blah blah" those are just annoying effects that wont give the mage a HUGE advantage. get protect from mage on and those effects seem like crap.

 

 

 

And btw, there are weps called godswords and other weps that have about the same effects. zamorak gs can freeze. cheap copying from ice barrage/.... sara can heal. same as blood rush/blitz/barrage/burst. bandos lowers stats. cheap copying from curse/weaken/etc. bchest anchor, seercull, etc lowers stats. cheap copying once more. see what i mean? jagex is trying to make mage more obsolete with all these new melee weps that have same effects as mage.

[game_proffy]

Mage is overpowered?!!?!?!?! thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard. mage cant even get through plate armor properly in f2p clan wars. Just put on dhide and on protect from mage and mages cant do anything. and mages are slow like hell. Mage armor is weak against both melee and ranged. ranged armor is weak against melee but it is much better than mage in melee defence. melee armor is weak against mage but has damn high ranged and melee defence. see who is underpowered? Melee can wear range, mage armor without any penalties. obviously they can wear mage, but who ever does it? range can wear mage armor without penalties. this is not such a big problem since mage armor is like crap. mage cant wear range/melee armor without suffering severe penalties. unfair isnt it? and dont tell me it is logical that melee can wear other armor that is lighter and wont suffer any penalties. this is a GAME for goodness's sake.

 

 

 

"mage can attack from range" so can range. "mage can farcast further than range" so? with run on you'll catch up in less than a second more. "mage can freeze, steal hp, blah blah blah" those are just annoying effects that wont give the mage a HUGE advantage. get protect from mage on and those effects seem like crap.

 

 

 

And btw, there are weps called godswords and other weps that have about the same effects. zamorak gs can freeze. cheap copying from ice barrage/.... sara can heal. same as blood rush/blitz/barrage/burst. bandos lowers stats. cheap copying from curse/weaken/etc. bchest anchor, seercull, etc lowers stats. cheap copying once more. see what i mean? jagex is trying to make mage more obsolete with all these new melee weps that have same effects as mage.

 

 

 

Have you EVER done PvP with ancients? All those "insignificant" freeze/teleblock abilities are extremely powerful, you know. Farcast further? Yes. Just freeze the ranger with an Ice Barrage, run a bit back and outrange him.

 

 

 

Yes, magic is underpowered in F2P, but that doesn't give you the right to claim it's underpowered in P2P as well.

 

 

 

On the weapon specials:

 

 

 

1. You need to get close.

 

2. They use up the special bar, which takes 5 minutes to fully recharge.

 

3. You still outrange most ranged weapons with your spells.

 

4. Many ancient spells are multi-target, so especially useful in CW and against ganking attempts by teams on PvP worlds.

[Obtaurian]

I'm lol'ing at all of the people who are under the false impression that magic is underpowered. Keep it up. I appreciate the laugh. :thumbup: Compfreak has pretty much said everything that needs to be said. I highly suggest that everyone claiming magic to be underpowered read the Ancient Magicks strategy guide in the AOW.

[Sir_Kurity]

Coming from a pures perspective, i think magic is fairly underpowered because of one thing, magic increases magic defence, not defence.

 

 

 

Now its possible to level magic without leveling combat, so people under 60 combat can have over 80 magic netting them loads and loads of magic defence, combined with black dragonhide that makes them much harder to hit than they should be, considering they can hit me (another pure) almost 100% of the time, which I'm sitting there with my dark bow and ancients splashing more often than not.

 

 

 

Now i do agree on one thing.. IF i hit (the amount of pures with low mage :thumbsup: ) I generally win, its amazing how easy it is to outrange a ranger.

 

 

 

Now if defence were the sole stat that give magic defence, i think it might be a bit more balanced.

 

 

 

I agree, mage + range farcast is so win, assuming they don't teleport away.

 

Hence why the wonderful 'teleblock' spell exists :twss:

 

 

 

What do melee\range have in that area? Anyone?

 

 

 

Well, ancients don't have teleblock, i don't have the mage level for teleblock, and even if i did, i need a combination of damage and freeze to win, because my dark bow is mainly just for the KO.

[compfreak847]

Pures are a thing of the past. 2 claw or dark bow specs will basically guarantee a kill. Pures are obsolete, combat types from a less powered, lower hitting time.

[pureprayer]

Pures are a thing of the past. 2 claw or dark bow specs will basically guarantee a kill. Pures are obsolete, combat types from a less powered, lower hitting time.

 

+1 Im turning my pure into a "barrows" pure.