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Veritas94

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I have read all that has been posted...

 

 

 

I am not a mage fan and don't understand what this zuriels staff is... but...

 

 

 

 

 

For sure mage in F2p is underpowered... Bind is useless (haha especially when they pj you).

 

The trouble with it in f2p is the best they can do is 18... (max hit with fire blast) and it is easily protected against...

 

Also with all the lack of "honour" and pixel hugging the amount of money you waste with food and runes is too much.

 

 

 

The triangle only matters as a rule... In a perfect game it might work... but human nature likes bending the rules...

 

 

 

So we have warriors with range gear for protection? Use a melee weapon on them then?

 

 

 

I know you want to solo using mage but it's not that simple... if pking changes you have to roll with it...

 

 

 

What happened to arena spells? and charge? that's 25+ on most hits isn't it?

 

 

 

Then you've got tele block and snare...

 

 

 

I do agree with who I think compfreak: you do need to be more creative... If you can tell me you have tried every single mage combo then maybe i'll started actually caring...

 

 

 

From what I've read you've ranted about mage being underpowered and people using their brains against you... Then when people say exactly that you have a go at them because that's "Just 1% of your post... erm even my maths isn't as bad as that..

 

 

 

So:What do you hope to gain from this thread? supporters? or actual solutions to your problems? at the moment it's the first...

 

 

 

A meleer is given the option to hybrid without switching his attack styles. A mage isn't given that option. And yes, I do want to solo with magic, and yes, this isn't possible at the moment so I have to adapt, and yes, I do want to offer a better and more balanced version of Runescape as we know to the tip.it community. That's why this forum is here.

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Runescape Bugs & Suggestions.

 

 

 

Mage is fine in F2P and P2P.

 

The sheer accuracy of mage with NOTHING MORE THAN A STAFF is extreme. Any robes better than now would make it deadly.

I dont need a siggy no moar.

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i agree with p2p part; but in f2p mage is total waste!

 

well not in accuraty but certainly in fighting

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[hide]visage drop 11/01/09

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To call Magic underpowered is ignorance of the highest degree. fenrir321 already demonstrated a highly effective way to use Magic in player versus player situations. I also recommend that you do not try to disprove compfreak847. I've yet to see a time where he has been wrong; he has the knowledge and experience to win every debate.

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The whole concept of separate "classes" and the "combat triangle" only applies to situations where everyone is using only one class's gear, which almost never happens these days. If a meleer is using ranged armor, they're using two ends of the combat triangle. So, as a mage, to overcome that, you need to use two ends of the combat triangle as well (eg; dds their [wagon] when they put on dhide).

 

 

 

Armor and weapons are cheap enough now that almost everyone uses more than one end of the combat triangle, and because runescape has no separate class system like in most MMOs, there is really no way to prevent this. So if you want to succeed, you're just going to have to adapt like everyone else. Fortunately that isn't really too difficult to do in RS.

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[hide="reply"

 

Answer this simple question:

 

Do meleers or rangers carry only one weapon? No. They carry dds and whip, cbow and msb

 

Therefore, why not mages use more than one spell?

 

Consider this set up:

 

Ice barrage -> Shadow barrage -> Smoke Barrage -> Ice barrage continuously. Blood Barrage as needed. You can replace the barrage spells with blitzes if needed.

 

What this set up does:

 

Holds target for 20 seconds.

 

Poisons at 4.

 

Lowers attack by 15%.

 

On the now off chance you get hit, you can heal using blood barrage.

 

 

 

The runes shouldn't be a problem since you only need deaths, bloods, souls, and combination of water, fire, and air runes/staff/combo runes. According to my calculations, you use 5 inventory spaces with ancient staff and 4 with steam staff. The rest of the inventory space should be used for super defense, prayer potions, possibly Saradomin Brews and sup restores.

 

 

 

I'll address this first. The Meleer in the scenario you mentioned will still beat the Mage even if he didn't have a crossbow or Ranged weapon. Yes, that's right. Black D'hide & Prayer WILL win against a Mage because those excuses for spells called Barrages splash all the time. The crossbow would be overkill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your argument of being expensive only holds water until Jagex releases Soul runecrafting. After that, all of these items can be foraged and made.

 

 

 

My argument about the cost refers to buying the runes. If you can make the runes, that's also time consuming, and that time translates into money, so they're expensive whichever way you look at it. If I were a meleer, I could buy a godsword, and then sell it back, and I wouldn't have lost ANY money. Mages cast spells which costs 1000's of coins per cast - coins which they can never get back. See my point?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another set up:

 

Ice Barrage -> Miasmic Barrage -> Shadow Barrage -> Smoke Barrage -> Ice/Blood Barrage as needed.

 

This will render a meleer using anything under a scimitar/whip useless.

 

Miasmic Barrage -> Smoke Barrage -> Blood Barrage As needed.

 

Anti-range finally. Notice that this set does not include Shadow or Ice Barrage because Attack does not determine accuracy and rangers can shoot from afar.

 

Only if the ranger uses dragon bolts will a cbow be semi-effective. A msb will be rendered worse than a normal cbow.

 

 

 

 

Now I'll address this part of what you said. First, I'd like to say that it's perfectly fine for Rangers to beat Mages; that's the way it's meant to be. Secondly, I'd like to point out that in the spell rotation you mentioned above, you've included "Miasmic Barrage." Did you know Miasmic Barrage requires you to buy a staff which lasts 15 minutes and costs 6,000,000 gold coins? If you can look me in the face and say that this is practical way of PvPing, then I have nothing more to say to you. ::' I will however, assume that you did not know this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Magic only needs a creative mind to be effective. Don't say that magic is under powered; say that the mages' minds behind that attack style are underpowered.

 

 

 

My mind is underpowered? Are you suggesting I'm stupid? That's low. NO, it IS magic that is underpowered, not the Mages' minds. Have you seen the rants forum on runescape.com lately? There is 4K+ support list for a buff to mages. The thing that is significant is that a very large part of that support list includes Mages who have both 95+ magic and other high level Melee and Ranged stats and are experienced with the shortcomings of Magic in its present pitiful state.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dhide argument:

 

They are hybriding, why aren't you?

 

Obvious.

 

Range armor + melee weapon < Melee armor + melee weapon

 

Don't light a fire, pour water on it, and then complain it went out.

 

 

 

 

You're not getting the point. The meleer isn't forced to switch the weapon he's using. The Mage is being forced to not be a Mage anymore and he's switching BOTH his weapon and his armor. I'd personally like to see either Black D'hide armor subtract from Melee bonuses, or have Plate armor not subtract from magic bonuses. Take your pick.

 

 

 

Fenrir321, none of the above arguments which you stated have much hold in a real, practical view of playing the game, I regret to say.

 

 

 

FFS, isn't there at least one person that will acknowledge the validity of my rant?

 

 

 

Regards,

 

E.

[/hide]

 

Since this is a reply, I'll start with the last argument:

 

You're essentially asking rock to beat paper in this argument. Yes, they're using melee. Yes, they're using ranged armor. They are still hybridding. A lvl 126 with 99 stats WILL beat any "class" of player with 99 in their respective stats and 1 in the others. Also, even if you do change to melee weapons, you can still cast magic. You can also use some melee armor in conjunction with a staff and still cast magic effectively in some instances. Also, Jagex said that lvl difference can bend the triangle.

 

 

 

 

 

For your second argument, I did not mean that you had [developmentally delayed]ed mind. I meant that you may need to stretch the limit of your imagination. If you want an example of a good mage, go to WoWWiki. Go to any WoW site and find this: MAGE NEED LOT'S OF MOUSE BUTTONS. I had 3 mouse buttons for FULL 12 spells lists. That's 36 spells I had to keep track of. Magic is very versatile and therefore complex. Also, have you ever read Plato's Crito?

 

"The opinion of the masses matters little."

 

This is because when you pool their minds, at least once will you get an issue that will only pool the majority's ignorance. Also, rants isn't a good indicator because the people who DO like it are playing the content instead of praising it to counteract the ranting.

 

 

 

 

 

I know perfectly well that the miasmic spells require much gold, but that doesn't mean people wouldn't use them. Switch the staff after 1 spell and it will last a long time. The staff is granting an anti-range ability so obviously it is extremely expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meleers may not lose money, but they can't make their resources. Even if you had to make your runes, it would take no more than a day in non-risk environments to make up for about two or three hours' worth of pking. Meleers would have to kill or buy their items. Well let's say that they had NO money. Hmm...I'd say the mage wins this round.\

 

 

 

 

 

There is something called prayer...wait you mentioned that. Alright, why aren't you using prayer as well? Why not protect from melee? OR even OMG smite? You can't use the dhide argument still because it is bending the triangle. And even if you did, how do you beat a bent triangle? Bend it again! HYBRID.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only agreement is that mages must trade their weapons out. Though this doesn't really matter much since ahrim's gives good melee defense and magic attack.

 

 

 

Before you make me start a syllogism, you must tell me what the term "practical" means in this context.

 

 

 

edit: If you the OP would just look at Comp's and my examples of combos, you would know how mage IS NOT underpowered. Comp has some good combos; I'm taking notes for that imfamous lvl 94 I plan on getting ;)

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The whole concept of separate "classes" and the "combat triangle" only applies to situations where everyone is using only one class's gear, which almost never happens these days. If a meleer is using ranged armor, they're using two ends of the combat triangle. So, as a mage, to overcome that, you need to use two ends of the combat triangle as well (eg; dds their [wagon] when they put on dhide).

 

 

 

Armor and weapons are cheap enough now that almost everyone uses more than one end of the combat triangle, and because runescape has no separate class system like in most MMOs, there is really no way to prevent this. So if you want to succeed, you're just going to have to adapt like everyone else. Fortunately that isn't really too difficult to do in RS.

 

Very true. OP, take notice. Yes, in a hypothetical world where you are only allowed to switch armor instead of weapons, magic will do poorly against range armor. In the real RS world, magic will provide a HUGE advantage, allowing you to take down a meleer virtually untouched.

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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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To: compfreak847

 

Kind of off topic:

 

I noticed that you have 99 magic from your sig, yet in another post you said that your magic was equivalent to lvl 74 attack. Can you clarify how you came to that conclusion? I'd love to know how to calculate my magic accuracy by including equipment, if that's what you are doing

 

 

 

OT:

 

As peronix very clearly wrote, the combat triangle is slightly hypothetical and can't really made since it's more like a pentagon or a hexagon.

 

 

 

However, I do think that magic lacks a good weapon seeing as the best staff (zuriel's) has only +18 magic. Of course, if Jagex made Ahrim's staff have +100 magic, then we'd be dealing with a bunch of magers running around in full torags with insane magic offense.

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To: compfreak847

 

Kind of off topic:

 

I noticed that you have 99 magic from your sig, yet in another post you said that your magic was equivalent to lvl 74 attack. Can you clarify how you came to that conclusion? I'd love to know how to calculate my magic accuracy by including equipment, if that's what you are doing

 

 

 

OT:

 

As peronix very clearly wrote, the combat triangle is slightly hypothetical and can't really made since it's more like a pentagon or a hexagon.

 

 

 

However, I do think that magic lacks a good weapon seeing as the best staff (zuriel's) has only +18 magic. Of course, if Jagex made Ahrim's staff have +100 magic, then we'd be dealing with a bunch of magers running around in full torags with insane magic offense.

 

*sigh* i meant compared to what your combat level would be with 99 magic :P

 

 

 

As for the staff, that's one of the quirks of magic - the armor is what provides the majority of the bonuses, not the staffs. +20 mage with master wand is actually the best staff, though.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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To call Magic underpowered is ignorance of the highest degree. fenrir321 already demonstrated a highly effective way to use Magic in player versus player situations. I also recommend that you do not try to disprove compfreak847. I've yet to see a time where he has been wrong; he has the knowledge and experience to win every debate.

 

Not try to disprove Compfreak847 when I think hes wrong and misguided in his beliefs? Im sorry, but from my perspective, it is my responsibility to argue against him. If youre not going to contribute something worthwhile, I kindly urge you to leave.

 

The whole concept of separate "classes" and the "combat triangle" only applies to situations where everyone is using only one class's gear, which almost never happens these days. If a meleer is using ranged armor, they're using two ends of the combat triangle. So, as a mage, to overcome that, you need to use two ends of the combat triangle as well (eg; dds their [wagon] when they put on dhide).

 

 

 

Armor and weapons are cheap enough now that almost everyone uses more than one end of the combat triangle, and because runescape has no separate class system like in most MMOs, there is really no way to prevent this. So if you want to succeed, you're just going to have to adapt like everyone else. Fortunately that isn't really too difficult to do in RS.

 

 

 

Theres bending the combat triangle and avoiding using that part of the triangle because it lacks power. For instance, a Meleer in the combat triangle does bend the triangle but he does so in a way that allows him to continue using Melee attacks (In the case of a Meleer who puts on Black Dhide vs. a Mage). You say that the Mage needs to use two ends of the combat triangle, as well. THATS GREAT, BUT I WANT TO BE LIKE THE MELEER AND I WANT TO CONTINUE USING MAGIC AS I ADAPT TO THE SITUATION. To counter Melee attacks, a mage should be allowed to put on Plate Armor without magic subtraction bonuses. Theres no reason for them to be there in the first place. A mage shouldnt have to change his mode of attack but only what hes wearing. This is, of course, what melee is allowed to do, so why are Mages left out in the dust with meaningless subtractions from their magic attack bonus?

 

 

 

Consider for a moment what would happen if what I propose was implemented. It would go like this: Mage is casting spells on warrior. Warrior puts on Dhide for magic defense and approaches with DDS. Mage puts on Melee armor and gets hit less, and the two cancel each other out. The Mage would be splashing on the Black Dhide Armor more but he wouldnt be getting hit as much from the DDS. The Meleer wouldnt be getting hit with many spells but at the same time hed have a hard time hitting through the rune. Balance. Thats all Im asking for in the first place. To allow for even further bending, why not allow Black Dhide Armor to be worn by Mages without it subtracting anything from their magic attack bonus.

 

 

 

 

Since this is a reply, I'll start with the last argument:

 

You're essentially asking rock to beat paper in this argument. Yes, they're using melee. Yes, they're using ranged armor. They are still hybridding. A lvl 126 with 99 stats WILL beat any "class" of player with 99 in their respective stats and 1 in the others. Also, even if you do change to melee weapons, you can still cast magic. You can also use some melee armor in conjunction with a staff and still cast magic effectively in some instances. Also, Jagex said that lvl difference can bend the triangle.

 

 

 

 

 

For your second argument, I did not mean that you had [developmentally delayed] mind. I meant that you may need to stretch the limit of your imagination. If you want an example of a good mage, go to WoWWiki. Go to any WoW site and find this: MAGE NEED LOT'S OF MOUSE BUTTONS. I had 3 mouse buttons for FULL 12 spells lists. That's 36 spells I had to keep track of. Magic is very versatile and therefore complex. Also, have you ever read Plato's Crito?

 

"The opinion of the masses matters little."

 

This is because when you pool their minds, at least once will you get an issue that will only pool the majority's ignorance. Also, rants isn't a good indicator because the people who DO like it are playing the content instead of praising it to counteract the ranting.

 

 

 

Your post confuses me a little, so let me try to pose a question which may clear something up. Before I ask the question, I will tell you that I am indeed proclaiming that have to do something about the absurd Melee dominance in PvP at this time. The question: Have you ever wondered why a mage has to suffer subtractions from his magic attack bonuses? It just doesnt seem to make any sense, and it points directly to that fact that Jagex favors Melee over Magic. Magic is the only one that has to suffer from this, and its completely irrational. If you do come up with a coherent answer to this question then please let me know. If those subtractions were removed, then Id be content for the time being. If you agree that they should be removed, then you and I will be the best of friends =). By the way, you mentioned that you can continue to cast using Melee armor in conjunction with a staff. Im not quite sure how to respond to this. I hope you werent being serious.

 

 

 

To address your second paragraph, "the masses" which you refer to are mixed in with a VERY large number of high level Mages which know what it is they're talking about. They have something even better than insubstantial theorizing - they have experienced the shortcomings of magic themselves. In this case, it isn't a crowd of people telling you to jump off a bridge, but it's a crowd of educated and intelligent people telling you to stay on the bridge, and providing logical reasoning for why they believe the way they do. I hope this explains it ::' .

 

 

I know perfectly well that the miasmic spells require much gold, but that doesn't mean people wouldn't use them. Switch the staff after 1 spell and it will last a long time. The staff is granting an anti-range ability so obviously it is extremely expensive.

 

 

 

Meleers may not lose money, but they can't make their resources. Even if you had to make your runes, it would take no more than a day in non-risk environments to make up for about two or three hours' worth of pking. Meleers would have to kill or buy their items. Well let's say that they had NO money. Hmm...I'd say the mage wins this round.

 

 

 

Meleers can buy 1 weapon and make it last for the rest of eternity. 1 Hour of chopping yews to buy a Dragon Scimitar which has potentially unlimited usage for the rest of forever, or No more than a day of runecrafting in none risk environments in order to PvP for 2 Hours. Take your pick. Youre wrong, Melee clearly wins this round.

 

 

 

 

There is something called prayer...wait you mentioned that. Alright, why aren't you using prayer as well? Why not protect from melee? OR even OMG smite? You can't use the dhide argument still because it is bending the triangle. And even if you did, how do you beat a bent triangle? Bend it again! HYBRID.

 

 

#1. Smite can be used by both Meleer and Mage. This means that they could take each others protect prayers down. This nullifies your argument . #2. Ill quote myself:

 

 

Theres bending the combat triangle and avoiding using that part of the triangle because it lacks power. For instance, a Meleer in the combat triangle does bend the triangle but he does so in a way that allows him to continue using Melee attacks (In the case of a Meleer who puts on Black Dhide vs. a Mage). You say that the Mage needs to use two ends of the combat triangle, as well. THATS GREAT, BUT I WANT TO BE LIKE THE MELEER AND I WANT TO CONTINUE USING MAGIC AS I ADAPT TO THE SITUATION. To counter Melee attacks, a mage should be allowed to put on Plate Armor without magic subtraction bonuses. Theres no reason for them to be there in the first place. A mage shouldnt have to change his mode of attack but only what hes wearing. This is, of course, what melee is allowed to do, so why are Mages left out in the dust with meaningless subtractions from their magic attack bonus.

 

 

 

Consider for a moment what would happen if what I propose was implemented. It would go like this: Mage is casting spells on warrior. Warrior puts on Dhide for magic defense and approaches with DDS. Mage puts on Melee armor and gets hit less, and the two cancel each other out. The Mage would be splashing on the Black Dhide Armor more but he wouldnt be getting hit as much from the DDS. The Meleer wouldnt be getting hit with many spells but at the same time hed have a hard time hitting through the rune. Balance. Thats all Im asking for in the first place. To allow for even further bending, why not allow Black Dhide Armor to be worn by Mages without it subtracting anything from their magic attack bonus.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only agreement is that mages must trade their weapons out. Though this doesn't really matter much since ahrim's gives good melee defense and magic attack.

 

 

 

Before you make me start a syllogism, you must tell me what the term "practical" means in this context.

 

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/practical

 

 

 

Capable of or suitable to being used or put into effect; useful: practical knowledge of Japanese.

 

As in, available for the moderately easy-going Runescape player (As opposed to one who has hundreds of millions to spare.) Practical means that I can spend around 1-2M to get very decent Magic Gear that will not disappear after 15 minutes. You really want to take a Staff of Zuriel into a PvP world, then be my guest. But the staff is not only rare, but its power is ephemeral too. And please, in the face of the incredible number of swords, daggers, axes, and claws that are ABSOLUTELY VIABLE weapons created for Jagexs little pet melee class, Magic has gotten this excuse for a staff.

 

 

 

You have also failed to address Magic's lack of KOing power in both F2P and P2P (No, using the delayed Blitz/Barrage animation delay is exceedingly difficult in the face of what the other two can dish out, and if you were to use it, it still doesn't match the max hits of Melee and Ranged. LOL@the potential for ranged to have a special attack the NEVER MISSES and has a potential max hit of 96. Why can't Mages do that kind of damage from a distance? LOL@A melee weapons ability to freeze you. (Seems Magic's advantages are already being implemented into the two other types of combat. Just perfect)) Face it, Magic needs some serious buffs and expansions and deserves a few of its own exclusive updates that will make it FUN, POWERFUL, and CHEAP, just as melee is at the present time.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Elusefelier

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A person casting ONLY magic will lose a fight.

 

 

 

A person using ONLY range will win some lose some.

 

 

 

A person using ONLY melee will win some lose some.

 

 

 

 

I saw a dude in void 1 hit a dude with an hp cape with a dark bow and ice blitz in a pvp world today..,

 

 

 

This is what I am talking about. Mage relying on range to get the kill. If I go to youtube (a bad example I know) and search for something like PK videos I doubt I would find many pure mage ones. On the other hand I could find a butt load of people only using DDS/whip or Darkbow/Cbow and getting kills.

 

 

 

Below is just [cabbage] I am typing. I'm bad at getting my thoughts into words so try and understand it.

 

 

 

[hide=Random Babble]Mage who switches to a melee.

 

 

 

Melee who casts magic.

 

 

 

What exactly is the difference between these two?? Nothing.... Both cases have to resort to pulling out a whip/GS or w.e to defend yourself and get the KO. Thats why mage is bad.

 

 

 

Melee doesn't need to hybrid. It sure helps obviously but with whip/dds/claws/GS they have plenty of different weapons for each situation.

 

 

 

Range can hold its own too. Different bolts hit hard and the darkbow for the KO.

 

 

 

Mage on its own is bad. It has become a support skill. You might call yourself a mage but all you are really doing is buttering up your opponent before you take out your whip/w.e for the KO.[/hide]

If you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.

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Not try to disprove Compfreak847 when I think hes wrong and misguided in his beliefs? Im sorry, but from my perspective, it is my responsibility to argue against him. If youre not going to contribute something worthwhile, I kindly urge you to leave.

 

[hide=Don't read this, as you may find it offensive]busib1.gif[/hide]

 

 

 

It's amazing. I haven't seen a SINGLE argument against ANY of my points. I have effectively nullified and proved wrong every single one of yours, backing up mine with facts and large amounts of real world experience. I suppose you just can't lower your standards to argue with me? It might help me to understand why melee owns magic so badly, because so far from what you and I have said, my magic will completely destroy your melee. Also, it isn't your 'responsibility' to argue against me, especially since you seem to be so handily stepping around it, nor is it your responsibility to tell people to 'get off your thread'. I could go the same route and tell you not to post until you can actually counter my points, but I suppose you can continue to candidly ignore my posts and respond only to those that are incorrect.

 

 

 

[hide=]

Mage who switches to a melee.

 

 

 

Melee who casts magic.

 

 

 

What exactly is the difference between these two?? Nothing.... Both cases have to resort to pulling out a whip/GS or w.e to defend yourself and get the KO. Thats why mage is bad.

 

 

 

Melee doesn't need to hybrid. It sure helps obviously but with whip/dds/claws/GS they have plenty of different weapons for each situation.

 

 

 

Range can hold its own too. Different bolts hit hard and the darkbow for the KO.

 

 

 

Mage on its own is bad. It has become a support skill. You might call yourself a mage but all you are really doing is buttering up your opponent before you take out your whip/w.e for the KO.

[/hide]

 

Meleer who fights a mager without switching armor will get completely owned. Any sensible mage can switch to a whip after using magic for a 3 to 1 advantage over his opponent, using it to keep him stuck with inferior armor, lower attack, poison damage, half the attack speed, and already 100+ damage points behind. Fortunately most meleers are too stupid to switch to range armor, and are forced to run for cover or die. Those that do are already frozen, poisoned, and have slowed attacks, so I can sidestep and take them out in everything but eating fights without being touched. For eating fights, see above; he doesn't stand the slightest chance, thanks to my spells.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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It doesn't matter what armor you are wearing. If someone puts on full rune and starts maging are they a mage? Yes, a stupid one, but still a mage. A person with a whip in armydl is using melee.

 

 

 

A person using magicks and a whip is no longer a mage. They are a hybrid and I don't wanna argue over hybriding or anything. Yes, it is clearly smarter to hybrid no matter what you originally start off as but at least it is an OPTION for range and melee.

 

 

 

For magic it isn't. You either do it or go into the wildy in your robes and get destroyed or go in full torags and hit nothing.

If you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.

^^^At least I'm not the only crazy one

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@Freak: I think you missed my last response to your post. It is I who have nullified your arguments, and you who have stooped to insults by posting that picture. I would understand if that was some kind of light hearted joke-type of picture, but to suggest that I have not eloquently and effectively defended and provided reasoning behind my arguments, and have not provided reasonable and straightforward counters to yours is downright sophomoric and childish at best. At worst, it reveals that you are incapable of leading a calm and straightfoward debate about something that is being disagreed upon. I won't tolerate flaming in my thread. You continue to not answer my questions and to not read what I have written. I have read and responded to EVERYTHING you have posted, yet you haven't been able to respond adequately to what I have written, and if you wish to continue to argue with me without for a moment excepting the fact that there is (in your mind) a 1% chance that you might be wrong about your views, then there is no point in debating. I'm 99% sure I'm right, but not 100%, and that's exactly what lets me read your posts with due consideration. Your 100% certainty that Magic is in absolute zen-like balance within the Runecape combat system does not allow you to truly understand or respond to my posts.

 

 

 

It is indeed you who have missed the point of this thread. Although I do not command the power to make you leave, I urge you to do so while you can still keep whatever remaining shreds of dignity you have left.

 

 

 

P.S. Thank you for posting, Klutz. Welcome ::'

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I still haven't seen where you argue against anything. I can repeat my last post if you would like. A pure magic player will beat a pure melee player. If the melee player uses range armor, the mage player can use a melee or range weapon and, thanks to his spells, will have a 3 to 1 advantage over the meleer, resulting in the meleer doing very little to no damage while the mager has a field day in his stronger magic robes.

 

 

 

It is I who have nullified your arguments, and you who have stooped to insults

 

Ah yes, I am the big bad guy who is insulting you. I knew that somewhere, somehow someone who demanded political correctness would be 'offended' by it. Hence why I hid it in hide tags, I'm afraid it's rather your fault for looking at it in the first place. I found it rather humorous. It said nothing personal about you, only that I believed you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Let's drag up a few remarks of yours from one of the posts on the first page, shall we?

 

 

 

If you mention the Staff of Zuriel one more time, you will confirm the fact that you received an extra chromosome at birth.

 

Get the hell out of my thread. Your idiocy is really provoking me.

 

P.S.S. Stop butchering the English language, please.

 

 

 

Mild, intelligent flaming is allowable. Pointless harassment aimed at a specific individual or group of people is unacceptable.

 

I do not think that a humorous depiction of my belief that you misunderstood my post does not fall under 'pointless harassment'. However, if you wish to make a large issue out of that, I will willingly take it down if you want me to do so.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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Your post confuses me a little, so let me try to pose a question which may clear something up. Before I ask the question, I will tell you that I am indeed proclaiming that have to do something about the absurd Melee dominance in PvP at this time. The question: Have you ever wondered why a mage has to suffer subtractions from his magic attack bonuses? It just doesnt seem to make any sense, and it points directly to that fact that Jagex favors Melee over Magic. Magic is the only one that has to suffer from this, and its completely irrational. If you do come up with a coherent answer to this question then please let me know. If those subtractions were removed, then Id be content for the time being. If you agree that they should be removed, then you and I will be the best of friends =). By the way, you mentioned that you can continue to cast using Melee armor in conjunction with a staff. Im not quite sure how to respond to this. I hope you werent being serious.

 

 

 

To address your second paragraph, "the masses" which you refer to are mixed in with a VERY large number of high level Mages which know what it is they're talking about. They have something even better than insubstantial theorizing - they have experienced the shortcomings of magic themselves. In this case, it isn't a crowd of people telling you to jump off a bridge, but it's a crowd of educated and intelligent people telling you to stay on the bridge, and providing logical reasoning for why they believe the way they do. I hope this explains it ::' .

 

 

 

I've come up with this theory: if you are splashing on people, this may be a revolution, but it may be because not magic or your attack bonus or even their dhide, but because their magic level and defense levels are high. People splash on me casting ice burst. I wear GUTHANS. No, this doesn't point out that magic is under powered. This points out that I have 83 magic being attacked by a lvl 70 spell as opposed to a lvl 94 spell. I can guarantee you that I will be splashed a lot by wind strike even with horrible magic defense because it's a weak spell.

 

 

 

 

I know perfectly well that the miasmic spells require much gold, but that doesn't mean people wouldn't use them. Switch the staff after 1 spell and it will last a long time. The staff is granting an anti-range ability so obviously it is extremely expensive.

 

 

 

Meleers may not lose money, but they can't make their resources. Even if you had to make your runes, it would take no more than a day in non-risk environments to make up for about two or three hours' worth of pking. Meleers would have to kill or buy their items. Well let's say that they had NO money. Hmm...I'd say the mage wins this round.

 

 

 

Meleers can buy 1 weapon and make it last for the rest of eternity. 1 Hour of chopping yews to buy a Dragon Scimitar which has potentially unlimited usage for the rest of forever, or No more than a day of runecrafting in none risk environments in order to PvP for 2 Hours. Take your pick. Youre wrong, Melee clearly wins this round.

 

 

 

True, except for barrows weapons, but no one uses them anyway. And you missed my single point:

 

If two characters with absolutely no items or cash save for pouches and a pick axe, they both had 99 runecrafting and mining, you could make soul runes, and they both started at the same time, one trying to get a godsword, the other a bunch of runes and a water staff, who could be ready first? I would bet on the mage since not only do they not have to sell their runes, but they wouldn't have to buy anything or kill anything.

 

 

There is something called prayer...wait you mentioned that. Alright, why aren't you using prayer as well? Why not protect from melee? OR even OMG smite? You can't use the dhide argument still because it is bending the triangle. And even if you did, how do you beat a bent triangle? Bend it again! HYBRID.

 

 

#1. Smite can be used by both Meleer and Mage. This means that they could take each others protect prayers down. This nullifies your argument . #2. Ill quote myself:

 

 

Theres bending the combat triangle and avoiding using that part of the triangle because it lacks power. For instance, a Meleer in the combat triangle does bend the triangle but he does so in a way that allows him to continue using Melee attacks (In the case of a Meleer who puts on Black Dhide vs. a Mage). You say that the Mage needs to use two ends of the combat triangle, as well. THATS GREAT, BUT I WANT TO BE LIKE THE MELEER AND I WANT TO CONTINUE USING MAGIC AS I ADAPT TO THE SITUATION. To counter Melee attacks, a mage should be allowed to put on Plate Armor without magic subtraction bonuses. Theres no reason for them to be there in the first place. A mage shouldnt have to change his mode of attack but only what hes wearing. This is, of course, what melee is allowed to do, so why are Mages left out in the dust with meaningless subtractions from their magic attack bonus.

 

 

 

Consider for a moment what would happen if what I propose was implemented. It would go like this: Mage is casting spells on warrior. Warrior puts on Dhide for magic defense and approaches with DDS. Mage puts on Melee armor and gets hit less, and the two cancel each other out. The Mage would be splashing on the Black Dhide Armor more but he wouldnt be getting hit as much from the DDS. The Meleer wouldnt be getting hit with many spells but at the same time hed have a hard time hitting through the rune. Balance. Thats all Im asking for in the first place. To allow for even further bending, why not allow Black Dhide Armor to be worn by Mages without it subtracting anything from their magic attack bonus.

 

 

 

Ask Jagex to make bow swords so we can melee and range at the same time. Oh wait, we can't because our max is already too über. You can mage and melee at the same time in ahrims...As Comp has pointed out, Ahrims has better defense than blk dhide. And what would happen if We had lvl 136's in full barrows with a dfs and a whip casting ice barrage? That's basically what you are suggesting by asking for melee armor not to give negative magic attack.

 

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only agreement is that mages must trade their weapons out. Though this doesn't really matter much since ahrim's gives good melee defense and magic attack.

 

 

 

Before you make me start a syllogism, you must tell me what the term "practical" means in this context.

 

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/practical

 

 

 

Capable of or suitable to being used or put into effect; useful: practical knowledge of Japanese.

 

As in, available for the moderately easy-going Runescape player (As opposed to one who has hundreds of millions to spare.) Practical means that I can spend around 1-2M to get very decent Magic Gear that will not disappear after 15 minutes. You really want to take a Staff of Zuriel into a PvP world, then be my guest. But the staff is not only rare, but its power is ephemeral too. And please, in the face of the incredible number of swords, daggers, axes, and claws that are ABSOLUTELY VIABLE weapons created for Jagexs little pet melee class, Magic has gotten this excuse for a staff.

 

 

 

You have also failed to address Magic's lack of KOing power in both F2P and P2P (No, using the delayed Blitz/Barrage animation delay is exceedingly difficult in the face of what the other two can dish out, and if you were to use it, it still doesn't match the max hits of Melee and Ranged. LOL@the potential for ranged to have a special attack the NEVER MISSES and has a potential max hit of 96. Why can't Mages do that kind of damage from a distance? LOL@A melee weapons ability to freeze you. (Seems Magic's advantages are already being implemented into the two other types of combat. Just perfect)) Face it, Magic needs some serious buffs and expansions and deserves a few of its own exclusive updates that will make it FUN, POWERFUL, and CHEAP, just as melee is at the present time.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Elusefelier

 

Spend 2 mill on rune ess and craft runes then.

 

Spend 2 mill on runes and kill people.

 

 

 

Your definition means that anything that any one person can do is practical. It also means something that is useful. Magic is useful because it transports people across runescape in the blink of an eye. Your own definition has become your undoing. If you mean something else, like "something that the general population can accomplish," then that's what we call over powered. I'm sure you don't want to be bombarded by 51 out of 100 players as ice barragers for three hours. Of course I may be wrong since you just be as easily be the person casting that barrage.

 

 

 

 

 

Now to add something, logically speaking, ice barrage is a mager's defense. I'm not sure about you, but even with 70 magic and blk dhide, ice barrage will cut through that defense. You are dealing with a lvl 94 spell. Now imagine if we had lvl 94 bows or swords...

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Thats where me and you disagree at least compfreak. In my opinion it doesn't matter what armor you are using. It matters what weapon you are.

 

 

 

For instance if a someone casting wind strike is in full iron they are still using mage right?? Sure they are stupid but they are still a mage. Somebody fighting with an MSB in full torags is still a ranger, right?? Same thing with melee. Someone using a whip in d-hide is still a meleer.

 

 

 

Quick question, Comp. I need your opinion.

 

 

 

Should melee & ranged armor subtract from the magic attack bonus. If so, why?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

E.

 

 

 

I will answer this. Ya, they should. But at the same time d-hide should lower str/stab/slash/crush. Just like melee armor lowers range.

If you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.

^^^At least I'm not the only crazy one

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Quick question, Comp. I need your opinion.

 

 

 

Should melee & ranged armor subtract from the magic attack bonus. If so, why?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

E.

 

Because dragons have a tendency to absorb mana energy and heavy metal armor restricts movement.

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Ask Jagex to make bow swords so we can melee and range at the same time. Oh wait, we can't because our max is already too über. You can mage and melee at the same time in ahrims...As Comp has pointed out, Ahrims has better defense than blk dhide. And what would happen if We had lvl 136's in full barrows with a dfs and a whip casting ice barrage? That's basically what you are suggesting by asking for melee armor not to give negative magic attack.

 

 

 

 

I'm running low on time, since I have to go to bed soon, but to answer just this one part (remind me to answer the rest next time, ::' ), if you had full barrows with a whip casting ice barrage, you'd have a warrior which could cast spells and be very vulnerable to magic attacks. Or if it was Karils + Mage he was using, then you could just counter that with Karil's/Black D'hide & A Melee weapon. Balance \'

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Thats where me and you disagree at least compfreak. In my opinion it doesn't matter what armor you are using. It matters what weapon you are.

 

 

 

For instance if a someone casting wind strike is in full iron they are still using mage right?? Sure they are stupid but they are still a mage. Somebody fighting with an MSB in full torags is still a ranger, right?? Same thing with melee. Someone using a whip in d-hide is still a meleer.

 

Exactly. I can wear ahrims and a whip, have runes in my inventory and cast magic. I can use melee and magic simultaneously. I don't need a staff to cast magic.

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Quick question, Comp. I need your opinion.

 

 

 

Should melee & ranged armor subtract from the magic attack bonus. If so, why?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

E.

 

Because dragons have a tendency to absorb mana energy and heavy metal armor restricts movement.

 

 

 

I didn't mean for you to answer from a lore standpoint but a balance standpoint. Lol.

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Thats where me and you disagree at least compfreak. In my opinion it doesn't matter what armor you are using. It matters what weapon you are.

 

 

 

For instance if a someone casting wind strike is in full iron they are still using mage right?? Sure they are stupid but they are still a mage. Somebody fighting with an MSB in full torags is still a ranger, right?? Same thing with melee. Someone using a whip in d-hide is still a meleer.

 

Exactly. I can wear ahrims and a whip, have runes in my inventory and cast magic. I can use melee and magic simultaneously. I don't need a staff to cast magic.

 

 

 

Right!!!! So all you have proved is if you are hybirding, magic is extremely powerful. On its own it still is weak compared to range and melee!!!! Rebalance magic so it isn't a support skill!

If you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.

^^^At least I'm not the only crazy one

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Quick question, Comp. I need your opinion.

 

 

 

Should melee & ranged armor subtract from the magic attack bonus. If so, why?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

E.

 

Yes, they should. Magic is designed to be versatile and flexible, and giving it power to be used with any armor would upset the balance. Magers can eat meleers for breakfast; therefore, they should be equally trounced by rangers, something that wouldn't happen if melee armor didn't give huge negative bonuses. Magic still hits well on d hide.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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Thats where me and you disagree at least compfreak. In my opinion it doesn't matter what armor you are using. It matters what weapon you are.

 

 

 

For instance if a someone casting wind strike is in full iron they are still using mage right?? Sure they are stupid but they are still a mage. Somebody fighting with an MSB in full torags is still a ranger, right?? Same thing with melee. Someone using a whip in d-hide is still a meleer.

 

Exactly. I can wear ahrims and a whip, have runes in my inventory and cast magic. I can use melee and magic simultaneously. I don't need a staff to cast magic.

 

 

 

Right!!!! So all you have proved is if you are hybirding, magic is extremely powerful. On its own it still is weak compared to range and melee!!!! Rebalance magic so it isn't a support skill!

 

 

 

<3 Klutz.

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