Power supply power....

[im1knight]

I have this question in my mind for a while now, but i'm still not sure how power supply actually works...(sounds newbie..but yea)

 

If my power supply is 1000W, does it use 1000W of power all the time? Or does it means the max power can be drawn from the PSU is 1000W? and it only supply enough power for what the computer needs to run. I'm thinking of getting a nice upgrade next year, and i'm looking at GTX260 or 280. Both of them say minimum power requirement is 550W, so if i buy a 1000W PSU, and it constantly draw 1000W of power, then my electric bill is sure gonna go up by a lot.....That's like having my microwave running all the time.

[eggzs]

Not even close, infact non-SLI/Xfire rigs barely use half a kilowatt.

[OldJoe]

No, if you have a psu at 500w but the computer only uses 400w, it will be 400w. But it's rated for 500w (altho this can go up and down depending on the manufacturer).

 

The minimum requierments on Nvidia/ATI are because no one will be able to sue them and that if you buy a crap brand you should still be able to have it running.

 

And it's good that you are doing an upgrade next year, because there will come 55nm (if i don't remember wrong) of the GT200 series. And ATI will launch an insane version of 4870 (and also 4850).

 

I wouldn't recommend a 280 tho, too high price for the performance.

 

 

 

And it's no point on getting a 1000w psu for just one or two cards. 500-750 will be perfect, even for the craziest cards. (you could have, say, gtx260 in sli with a 620 corsair, but it would make quite a noise).

[Nadril]

Right now I would say the perfect PSU would be around 650w or so for almost all rigs until you start getting into crazy SLI and [cabbage]. Any more than 650w and you are just wasting money.

[BlueLancer]

The processor/graphics card manufacturer is required to state how much power the device draws from the PSU to associated slots or sockets... For the newest cards, this is pretty much exactly what Nadril said, 650W (for the cards like Radeon 4870). Your system wont be able to run such a graphics card if you have a weaker power supply.

 

 

 

That being said, I somewhat disagree it's a waste of money to buy, say, a 1000W power supply... Because they are often more efficient (up to 85% of electricity gets used, in contrast to 40-70% on typical 300-500W stock ones) and you will have room for upgrading other component, without having to worry if you have enough power.

 

 

 

The price difference between a 650W and 1000W isn't that great at all.

[n1h0k3r]

if I've learned anything at school, it's that if you are going to make a mess out of something, make a mess that goes boom.

 

 

 

not really. but what i have learned is that most things are made to be practical, and so most things will work correctly together.

 

about your actual question- no dolt will make something that draws twice the max power of the box you are trying to power. that would be stupid, and they would get sued. yay!

 

so go ahead.

[OldJoe]

The processor/graphics card manufacturer is required to state how much power the device draws from the PSU to associated slots or sockets... For the newest cards, this is pretty much exactly what Nadril said, 650W (for the cards like Radeon 4870). Your system wont be able to run such a graphics card if you have a weaker power supply.

 

 

 

That being said, I somewhat disagree it's a waste of money to buy, say, a 1000W power supply... Because they are often more efficient (up to 85% of electricity gets used, in contrast to 40-70% on typical 300-500W stock ones) and you will have room for upgrading other component, without having to worry if you have enough power.

 

 

 

The price difference between a 650W and 1000W isn't that great at all.

 

 

 

Nope. You can run a 4870+quad core on 500w without a problem. But, it's always good to go a bit over because it will make less noise and and the components will be working at lower C, but this doesn't effect the warranty nor the life-span of the product.

 

 

 

It also depends on what brand you choose for the psu, a crap brand like Ace and your hardware is doomed to fail. A brand like Corsair that have 80+ efficiency on all their psu's (even the 400w one) will not go below 80% nor does it have the ripple-effect.

 

1000W is a waste of money unless you get maybe 5hd's, 2x4870x2 and i7 extreme.

 

 

 

And i guess it depends on where you live depending on the prices, a Corsair 650w costs 120eu and a Corsair 1000w costs 260eu where i live.

[BlueLancer]

The processor/graphics card manufacturer is required to state how much power the device draws from the PSU to associated slots or sockets... For the newest cards, this is pretty much exactly what Nadril said, 650W (for the cards like Radeon 4870). Your system wont be able to run such a graphics card if you have a weaker power supply.

 

 

 

That being said, I somewhat disagree it's a waste of money to buy, say, a 1000W power supply... Because they are often more efficient (up to 85% of electricity gets used, in contrast to 40-70% on typical 300-500W stock ones) and you will have room for upgrading other component, without having to worry if you have enough power.

 

 

 

The price difference between a 650W and 1000W isn't that great at all.

 

 

 

Nope. You can run a 4870+quad core on 500w without a problem. But, it's always good to go a bit over because it will make less noise and and the components will be working at lower C, but this doesn't effect the warranty nor the life-span of the product.

 

 

 

Correct, 4870X2 requires a minimum power supply of 650W though http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd480 ... ments.html

[im1knight]

Thanks for all of your replys,

 

 

 

as of now, i'm thinking the update will be the following:(not sure on the exact details since new hardware are always coming out)

 

 

 

Intel core i7 extreme (the whole point of updating from Q6600), expected to do some overclocking

 

 

 

8Gb Ram

 

 

 

2x1TB hard drives ( I eat 720GB hard drive in no time....)

 

 

 

nvidia GTX200 series card (Not sure if i'm going to do a SLI or just stick with one, which one do you guys recommend? If i'm gonna go with 2 cards, how much difference does it make on the PSU?)

 

 

 

water cooling system (again, not sure on the detail, but how much power do they generally use)

 

 

 

and some other necessary stuff, like DVD burner wireless card etc

 

 

 

so um..based on those, a 750W PSU is good enough to power it up? or do i have to go for higher? I dont wanna buy one home then keep getting power failure BSOD...

[eggzs]

Heres an article detailing power usage on xfire/sli rigs with an overclocked quad core and 4gb RAM. The cards are a bit dated but it should give you a good idea

 

 

 

 

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/features/13 ... reX/page1/ (page 4)

[OldJoe]

More relevant power usage picture (look at vantage (full system load), QX9650, barracuda 250gb, 2gb ddr2, standard freq): [hide=][/hide]

 

 

 

Are you sure about i7 extreme?

 

Do you work much with video editing, rendering... etc?

 

I'd go with the 920... Much cheaper and very easily overclocked.

 

But if you feel that the extreme is something you could take advantage of, sure.

 

If you plan on gaming, no idea with the extreme... Get a E8600 and clock to 4ghz, Q9450 and clock or the i920.

 

 

 

And why you plan on getting 8gb? i7 works best with 3 or 6 sticks.

 

 

 

Wait until Nvidia releases their updated GT200 in january (i think it was), prices will drop on the older ones and you'll see if it's worth buying the "new" gpu.

 

It seems like you will be gaming? GTX260 in SLI or the new GTX295 (i think it's called, their new double-sandwich in january).

 

 

 

Motherboard, a Asus P6T Deluxe+OC Palm,X58, would be good.

 

 

 

Watercooling, ask Sloter or someone about that.

 

 

 

If you're crazy enough to buy the i7 extreme and sli and blabla, then you might aswell get a 750-1000w psu.

 

 

 

But i dunno about your post, it seems a bit weird that you'd need to ask about psu when you also mention overclocking, watercooling and a 1200eu cpu.

[Arixe]

But i dunno about your post, it seems a bit weird that you'd need to ask about psu when you also mention overclocking, watercooling and a 1200eu cpu.

 

Ya sounds like this is your first build (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Overclocking and watercooling is definitely not for the beginner computer geek or the faint of heart : And is it really necessary to overclock an i7 extreme when it will already eat anything your throw at it and ask for more?

[sloter]

But i dunno about your post, it seems a bit weird that you'd need to ask about psu when you also mention overclocking, watercooling and a 1200eu cpu.

 

Ya sounds like this is your first build (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Overclocking and watercooling is definitely not for the beginner computer geek or the faint of heart : And is it really necessary to overclock an i7 extreme when it will already eat anything your throw at it and ask for more?

 

I run a qx6850 i use to overclock it till i realized that it isn't worth even over clocking it cause i am always using 0 - 3 percent. Not pointless but not necessary. If you going to water cool it don't half [wagon] it either. Built it all internal. I will say buying water cooling kits are more expensive and aren't as good a building your own. Like others have said you appear to not know what your doing or talking about what so ever so be care cause you don't want your money going in the drain on screw ups.

[im1knight]

well u guys are pros lol.....

 

 

 

You guys are 100% right. It is going to be my first 100% self build computer. I was buying prebuild PCs all the way, and upgrading parts of it. but there are just way too many things get in the way when it comes to upgrading it. Tower is not big enough, PSU not powerful enough, some hardware won't work...etc etc... Im a newbie at building computers, but i do have a very general idea of how things work and where everything go, like how to set up the motherboard etc. but when it comes down to the real detail part i have no idea...( Ex. power of PSU...lol)

 

 

 

i7 extreme... well.. if i buy it now it's certainly not worth it. i think the price will drop a bit when next year comes around. (around Apr. or May) and that's when i'll get the money to start actually building. By then i guess the DDR3 Ram price will drop, and along with the graphic cards. More RAM never hurts, it just reduces time of hard drive being written, and therefore giving them a longer lifetime. Plus it speed things up a bit.

 

 

 

I'll be gaming mostly, along with editing videos etc. one of the reason i'm using a lot of money on this is because i don't want to make another major upgrade in the 3 years after i buy this one. There might be minor ones, since hardware requirements are always increasing, but this build should start off a 3 year run pretty good.

 

 

 

As you guys can see, FSX is the game i'm mainly playing right now, and it's a HUGE hardware killer. No CPU and GPU so far can get over 35-40 frame rates with everything turned on at ultra high, and this was released in 2006. You never know when microsoft will release FS's 11th release. since the 10th release is already killing most the people, id rather get ready with the 11th one.

 

 

 

Well....I'll reconsider a couple things in there, i still have 5 month before i'm actually buying it. So i have a lot of time to change my plan lol

[Arixe]

So i have a lot of time to change my plan lol

 

Yeah don't set anything in stone quite yet. The computer industry can change a TON in 5 months (Such as I built this computer a couple months before Core 2 Duos were released, all my parts were rendered obsolete :wall: )

[JoeDaStudd]

The general unwritten rule of buying PC parts is; buy parts which have been out 6 months.

 

That way your parts are much cheaper then when they came out, but also good for a long time.

 

Buy to soon you'll be paying to much, buy to late and it won't be good for long.

 

 

 

Although your best bet is alway to post your budget and what you want it to do here and we'll pick you the best bang-for-buck parts.

[OldJoe]

Don't throw away your current parts tho.

 

Of course, the i7 is better than your Q6600... But if you're just doing gaming and a bit of video editing... Then i would say that you could buy a new mobo+psu+graphics card+cpu fan.

 

Cheap upgrade and the Q66 is VERY clockable! You can get it to 3-3.4ghz 24/7h clock easily.

 

But if you have the money, ok.

 

 

 

Keep the current parts you got tho, as a 2nd "lan pc" (upgrade graphics card+psu for that case) or sell it, you could get about hmm... 150-250$ for your current computer with it's parts.

 

 

 

i7 extreme is not something i'd recommend for you, too high cost and i don't think you would take full advantage of it, as it's directed to extreme enthusiasts and overclockers. The 920 is probably more your way.

[im1knight]

oh im not throwing anything away, this PC will be another one that i might use around my house after i got the new one done. Thinking of using it as a TV PC, since its got the TV cards and i can plug a projector in it to make a nice home theater lol. Plus computer read discs much better than DVD player anyway.

 

 

 

My budget...hmm it's around $2300-2400ish. and i guess ill see what the price will be after around 4 or 5 month.

[Doomster]

A PSU will give as much as is needed, if you're lucky...

 

 

 

It's rare to see budget units tested, but take a look at these shockers!

 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=123

 

On page 3, note the creative use of grossly inadequate Axial lead diodes soldered to a pitiful heatsink in an effort to increase the load capacity.

 

While this lame duck 350W generic measured 235W, at anything above minimal power, the ripple would be not just a technical specification failure, but probly a system crash or worse.

 

 

 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... ry&reid=92

 

A less ghastly example, an Apevia (formerly Aspire) supposedly rated 900W but regulation breaks up over 800W - as the conclusion says, call it an 800W, and it's good, call it a 900W, and it's bad.

 

 

 

Actually, most PSUs that are not prime brand could probably do with derating by about 30% (or more) to allow for hype, one-off sample testing under ideal conditions etc.

 

 

 

The mark of a good PSU in testing, is:

 

1. It delivers what it says it will

 

2. It keeps in spec across all reasonable load patterns (crossload test)

 

3. It has eaither (or both) a decent degree of overload tolerance, or a clean protection shutdown.

 

Shutdown circuits (if present/working) tend to cover one or more of:

 

OVP - Overvoltage protection - this would only be activating if something has gone badly wrong already.

 

OCP - Overcurrent protection - often more hinderabce than help, if oversensitive in limiting 12V split rail drain.

 

OPP - Overpower protection

 

OTP - Overtemp protection

 

 

 

 

 

Another reason for some shockingly bad units, is that some of the worst hark back to the days when most of the action was on the 5V, and all the 12V did was run fans and drive motors.