Torso is NOT better then Adamant

[compfreak847]

Because the barrows plate surpasses it in any area that requires defence, and proslyte top surpasses it in any place that requires offense (+10% prayer). Even at the best training spot, Armored Zombies, proslyte is actually better due to the less frequent prayer charging required.

 

 

 

Even hypothetically assuming that we ignore the defence and prayer bonus shortcomings, torso provides roughly (120/4)*2)/100 = .6% faster XP. Assuming it takes 8 hours to learn BH, find a team, and actually get the torso (conservative; I've found that it usually takes over 10 in total time), your spending 8 hours to get .6% faster XP. Therefore, the 99.4% of full XP you would normally get from training for those 8 hours is the equivalent of 7.95 hours of training with a torso; because torso boosts XP by .6%, we can divide 7.95 by .006 for 1325 hours, the amount of training required to make torso worth getting over adamant chainbody (most monsters, including armored zombies, use a crush attack where chainbody is superior). 1325 hours = 132,500,000 XP training at Armored Zombies, along with 251,750,000 GP of profit.

 

 

 

So, if you plan on camping for more then 132.5 million XP, torso is worth getting over adamant chainbody. Of course, proslyte plate would blow it right out of the water, and to a lesser extent, bandos - the +1 prayer would by far make up for the cost over the millions of XP, and it can be resold, unlike the figher torso. The torso is entirely unsuitable for PVP, or indeed, any activity besides training, so those need not be considered.

 

 

 

Bottom line: Adamant Chainbody is superior to Fighter Torso unless you intend to train for over 132,500,000 XP (132.5 million) XP; if you include rune\bandos\proslyte in that order, they will all by FAR trump the torso.

 

 

 

So, I created this thread in response to http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=778258.

 

 

 

Apparently someone read a small portion of one of my posts, thinking I was only comparing the stats.

 

 

 

In reality, time is just important.

 

 

 

A few arguments have been used since I originally typed that:

 

 

 

#1, Godswords cost lots money and will never beat a d scimmy unless you train massive amounts of XP

 

#2, Not everyone can make 450k+ per hour

 

 

 

In response:

 

#1, Godswords can be resold for almost as much as they were bought, now that they have stabilized, but the time spent playing BH cannot be recovered.

 

#2, Avansies are something open to almost everyone, as are green dragons and dragonhide tanning; 3 easy, low risk methods that a mid-high level can easily do with almost no prior experience.

 

 

 

I'm sure there will be other arguments that will pop up, but rest assured I will be replying personally to each one :

 

 

 

[hide=]Oh, and I'm trying to be less of an arrogant jerk :cry:[/hide]

 

[hide=]Seriously. I'm nicer in game. I promise. Just ask deathmath\sirhemen\pigunmaden O:)[/hide]

[chc05dude]

Just document xp/hour markers and compare.

 

 

 

Not hard. Where are you getting 0.6%?

[AlexDT]

I have no idea if this holds any value whatsoever, but wouldn't the "exp needed to overcome the time wasted in BA" number be lowered by the eating time saved by using the torso over the adamant body? Of course, by that logic you'd be better off using a rune or barrows platebody, which is what any sane person would do anyway... In fact, shouldn't that more than outweigh the +4 strength bonus of the torso?

 

 

 

I really can't see any situation in which the torso should be used :?

[compfreak847]

Just document xp/hour markers and compare.

 

 

 

Not hard. Where are you getting 0.6%?

 

(120/4)*2)/100 = .6% faster XP

 

120 (average strength bonus with whip) /4 (for the exact boost the torso provides) *2 (to allow for strength bonus being only half of the formula, strength being the other half) / 100 (to convert to a percentage) = .6% (final allowance for how much of a boost fighter torso provides at a hypothetical 100% hitting rate)

 

 

 

Testing to determine such an exact decimal would be virtually impossible; there are far too many variables, and far too much variance in combat to determine that. However, previous mathematical experiments of mine have proven that results in combat can be calculated with a high degree of accuracy if one simply has a general idea of the underlying factors behind combat hits and XP.

[Xstarfox33X]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

[compfreak847]

I have no idea if this holds any value whatsoever, but wouldn't the "exp needed to overcome the time wasted in BA" number be lowered by the eating time saved by using the torso over the adamant body? Of course, by that logic you'd be better off using a rune or barrows platebody, which is what any sane person would do anyway... In fact, shouldn't that more than outweigh the +4 strength bonus of the torso?

 

 

 

I really can't see any situation in which the torso should be used :?

 

Most monsters use a crush attack, and torso is only +4 over the chainbody; an insignificant factor, especially with the latest summoning\SGS\BTP healing skills, and certainly far smaller a difference then the '100% hit rate' I used, which would swing the balance more in favor of the adamant chainbody.

[AlexDT]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

 

But why? The +4 str is not worth the time you lost. It just mathematically isn't.

[compfreak847]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

 

That's true, but it's not based on perception - in order for you to occasionally see 1 higher hit, your sacrificing roughly 600k XP, 1.2 million cash, and 50k summoning XP you could have gotten otherwise, or 6m from GWD, or 600k fletching XP etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

That's your choice, but for someone who wants to know which one is better, as in, will make for faster training, this is a more logical answer.

 

 

 

It also applies to a lot of people (like me) who hate BH; the majority of my friends that have gotten a torso said they hated it and never wanted to do it again, and would gladly have avoided it had they known it wasn't worth it anyway.

[compfreak847]

Of course, by that logic you'd be better off using a rune or barrows platebody, which is what any sane person would do anyway... In fact, shouldn't that more than outweigh the +4 strength bonus of the torso?

 

 

Yes, but then I'd have to get into the whole degrading thing argument, even though it's obviously worth it.

 

 

 

This was just a very simple yet very efficient way to silence torso advocates; save yourself 6m and buy an adamant chainbody for faster training. It's a great way to argue, even though it seems absurd when you first look at it :P

[Xstarfox33X]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

 

But why? The +4 str is not worth the time you lost. It just mathematically isn't.

 

 

 

be more specific please.

 

 

 

additionally, i will stand on my argument. I value torso and its +4 str over any money, and exp i could of gotten. Mathematically, I don't care. lol no offense, but it gets it through i think.

[Maulmachine]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

 

That's true, but it's not based on perception - in order for you to occasionally see 1 higher hit, your sacrificing roughly 600k XP, 1.2 million cash, and 50k summoning XP you could have gotten otherwise, or 6m from GWD, or 600k fletching XP etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

That's your choice, but for someone who wants to know which one is better, as in, will make for faster training, this is a more logical answer.

 

 

 

It also applies to a lot of people (like me) who hate BH; the majority of my friends that have gotten a torso said they hated it and never wanted to do it again, and would gladly have avoided it had they known it wasn't worth it anyway.

 

We aren't automatons, people don't do the most efficient thing, they play this game for FUN not for spending time conceiving the best way to be efficient,which is inefficient.

[compfreak847]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

 

But why? The +4 str is not worth the time you lost. It just mathematically isn't.

 

 

 

be more specific please.

 

 

 

additionally, i will stand on my argument. I value torso and its +4 str over any money, and exp i could of gotten. Mathematically, I don't care. lol no offense, but it gets it through i think.

 

Be more specific? Read my post. Your wasting millions and slowing your training down for the imaginary 'training' advantage you think your getting.

[Xstarfox33X]

Of course, by that logic you'd be better off using a rune or barrows platebody, which is what any sane person would do anyway... In fact, shouldn't that more than outweigh the +4 strength bonus of the torso?

 

 

Yes, but then I'd have to get into the whole degrading thing argument, even though it's obviously worth it.

 

 

 

This was just a very simple yet very efficient way to silence torso advocates; save yourself 6m and buy an adamant chainbody for faster training. It's a great way to argue, even though it seems absurd when you first look at it :P

 

 

 

Perception. I value the torso then 6 mil, additionally, faster training eventually is irrelevant when u max your stats. I want to hit 46s on whip without buying a bandos plate, which is 12mil. Like i said, my perception shifts my view and I do not evaluate any mathematical data or any efficiency that saves me if i don't get the torso.

[compfreak847]

 

We aren't automatons, people don't do the most efficient thing, they play this game for FUN not for spending time conceiving the best way to be efficient,which is inefficient.

 

Playing the game for FUN. Exactly what I do. I happen to hate BA, and there's a multitude of threads asking 'is fighter torso really worth it?'. No, it's not, your waisting a huge amount of time. If you really enjoy BA more then anything else in game you could be doing (I love PVP, as an example), then sure, go ahead and have fun; consider the torso a slight bonus that would be better off dropped :P

 

 

 

(proslyte\dh plate > torso for everything)

 

 

 

For the rest of us who don't love BA, it's not worth getting.

 

 

 

And I happen to enjoy conceiving the best way to be efficient. Hence why I do it, even if it isn't efficient :

[Xstarfox33X]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

 

But why? The +4 str is not worth the time you lost. It just mathematically isn't.

 

 

 

be more specific please.

 

 

 

additionally, i will stand on my argument. I value torso and its +4 str over any money, and exp i could of gotten. Mathematically, I don't care. lol no offense, but it gets it through i think.

 

Be more specific? Read my post. Your wasting millions and slowing your training down for the imaginary 'training' advantage you think your getting.

 

 

 

But like i said, I value torso over all that.

 

 

 

it goes back a perception argument. If someone likes torso, they get it because they like it and it outweighs any exp or money they would get.

[compfreak847]

Of course, by that logic you'd be better off using a rune or barrows platebody, which is what any sane person would do anyway... In fact, shouldn't that more than outweigh the +4 strength bonus of the torso?

 

 

Yes, but then I'd have to get into the whole degrading thing argument, even though it's obviously worth it.

 

 

 

This was just a very simple yet very efficient way to silence torso advocates; save yourself 6m and buy an adamant chainbody for faster training. It's a great way to argue, even though it seems absurd when you first look at it :P

 

 

 

Perception. I value the torso then 6 mil, additionally, faster training eventually is irrelevant when u max your stats. I want to hit 46s on whip without buying a bandos plate, which is 12mil. Like i said, my perception shifts my view and I do not evaluate any mathematical data or any efficiency that saves me if i don't get the torso.

 

Don't bother with the whole maxing your stats argument. I'm basically maxed. There is no place to use torso once your maxed. Not one. PVP? What a joke. Your maxed, you can fight with a 3k-per-hour DH plate for 2,000 hours straight before you approach the time it takes to get fighter torso, and you'll be fighting far better with it too.

[compfreak847]

 

But like i said, I value torso over all that.

 

 

 

it goes back a perception argument. If someone likes torso, they get it because they like it and it outweighs any exp or money they would get.

 

Unfortunately, the vast majority (in my experience) of players who get torso don't do it because BA is their favorite in game activity; they do it because they think it's better. And I'm here to say it's not. Even if you do waste (NOT a waste if your having fun) your time getting torso, your better off dropping it and wearing proslyte\dharoks top.

[AlexDT]

[hide=Treeeeee]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

 

But why? The +4 str is not worth the time you lost. It just mathematically isn't.

 

 

 

be more specific please.

 

 

 

additionally, i will stand on my argument. I value torso and its +4 str over any money, and exp i could of gotten. Mathematically, I don't care. lol no offense, but it gets it through i think.

 

Be more specific? Read my post. Your wasting millions and slowing your training down for the imaginary 'training' advantage you think your getting.

 

 

 

But like i said, I value torso over all that.

 

 

 

it goes back a perception argument. If someone likes torso, they get it because they like it and it outweighs any exp or money they would get.

[/hide]

 

No, it will not outweigh any exp or money they would get unless they train for hundreds of millions of exp. Perception is useless here, you are fundamentally wrong. 1 + 1 cannot be perceived to equal anything other than 2. The fun factor holds no mathematical value, so please stop using that.

[Maulmachine]

 

We aren't automatons, people don't do the most efficient thing, they play this game for FUN not for spending time conceiving the best way to be efficient,which is inefficient.

 

Playing the game for FUN. Exactly what I do. I happen to hate BA, and there's a multitude of threads asking 'is fighter torso really worth it?'. No, it's not, your waisting a huge amount of time. If you really enjoy BA more then anything else in game you could be doing (I love PVP, as an example), then sure, go ahead and have fun; consider the torso a slight bonus that would be better off dropped :P

 

 

 

(proslyte\dh plate > torso for everything)

 

 

 

For the rest of us who don't love BA, it's not worth getting.

 

 

 

And I happen to enjoy conceiving the best way to be efficient. Hence why I do it, even if it isn't efficient :

 

How ironic, mr. efficiency isn't efficient. Anywho, yeah it isn't worth it, unless you enjoy seeing slightly higher hits, or if you care about looks, neither of these are very efficient.

[Xstarfox33X]

 

We aren't automatons, people don't do the most efficient thing, they play this game for FUN not for spending time conceiving the best way to be efficient,which is inefficient.

 

Playing the game for FUN. Exactly what I do. I happen to hate BA, and there's a multitude of threads asking 'is fighter torso really worth it?'. No, it's not, your waisting a huge amount of time. If you really enjoy BA more then anything else in game you could be doing (I love PVP, as an example), then sure, go ahead and have fun; consider the torso a slight bonus that would be better off dropped :P

 

 

 

(proslyte\dh plate > torso for everything)

 

 

 

For the rest of us who don't love BA, it's not worth getting.

 

 

 

And I happen to enjoy conceiving the best way to be efficient. Hence why I do it, even if it isn't efficient :

 

 

 

Perception: if you don't like BA, then there is no reason y u should get torso, because u prob don't value it as much.

[mister_moocky]

If you enjoy playing barbarian assault, then you enjoy the time spend getting a torso, and since having fun is the point of playing runescape, it is not time wasted.

[compfreak847]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

 

But why? The +4 str is not worth the time you lost. It just mathematically isn't.

 

 

 

be more specific please.

 

 

 

additionally, i will stand on my argument. I value torso and its +4 str over any money, and exp i could of gotten. Mathematically, I don't care. lol no offense, but it gets it through i think.

 

Be more specific? Read my post. Your wasting millions and slowing your training down for the imaginary 'training' advantage you think your getting.

 

 

 

But like i said, I value torso over all that.

 

 

 

it goes back a perception argument. If someone likes torso, they get it because they like it and it outweighs any exp or money they would get.

 

No, it will not outweigh any exp or money they would get unless they train for hundreds of millions of exp. Perception is useless here, you are fundamentally wrong. 1 + 1 cannot be perceived to equal anything other than 2. The fun factor holds no mathematical value, so please stop using that.

 

I disagree with that; fun is very important. The problem is, most of the torso are being obtained via the incorrect assumption that they are worth using, not because players love BA. The reality is that your better off dropping it.

 

 

 

 

If you enjoy playing barbarian assault, then you enjoy the time spend getting a torso, and since having fun is the point of playing runescape, it is not time wasted.

 

See above.

[Xstarfox33X]

 

We aren't automatons, people don't do the most efficient thing, they play this game for FUN not for spending time conceiving the best way to be efficient,which is inefficient.

 

Playing the game for FUN. Exactly what I do. I happen to hate BA, and there's a multitude of threads asking 'is fighter torso really worth it?'. No, it's not, your waisting a huge amount of time. If you really enjoy BA more then anything else in game you could be doing (I love PVP, as an example), then sure, go ahead and have fun; consider the torso a slight bonus that would be better off dropped :P

 

 

 

(proslyte\dh plate > torso for everything)

 

 

 

For the rest of us who don't love BA, it's not worth getting.

 

 

 

And I happen to enjoy conceiving the best way to be efficient. Hence why I do it, even if it isn't efficient :

 

How ironic, mr. efficiency isn't efficient. Anywho, yeah it isn't worth it, unless you enjoy seeing slightly higher hits, or if you care about looks, neither of these are very efficient.

 

 

 

i agree, but the bottom line is

 

 

 

IF U DONT' LIKE TORSO\ BA, u think its a waste of time, not worth it

 

 

 

IF U DO LIKE TORSO\BA, u think torso is definately worth it.

 

 

 

perception ppl. lets stop repeating what we already said and just end this, we think differently on how torso is valued

[compfreak847]

 

How ironic, mr. efficiency isn't efficient. Anywho, yeah it isn't worth it, unless you enjoy seeing slightly higher hits, or if you care about looks, neither of these are very efficient.

 

I'm not always efficient, but I do factor fun into it :

 

 

 

 

Perception: if you don't like BA, then there is no reason y u should get torso, because u prob don't value it as much.

 

Incorrect. Realistically: Even if you love BA and do end up getting a torso, simply drop it; your wasting a bank space.

 

 

 

 

 

 

i agree, but the bottom line is

 

 

 

IF U DONT' LIKE TORSO\ BA, u think its a waste of time, not worth it

 

 

 

IF U DO LIKE TORSO\BA, u think torso is definately worth it.

 

 

 

perception ppl. lets stop repeating what we already said and just end this, we think differently on how torso is valued

 

Wrong. See above. Regardless of how much you love BA, you might as well drop the torso. It's worthless.

[Xstarfox33X]

its all based on perception

 

 

 

i value the torso and its +4 str over the money i could of made or and exp i could of gotten lost in getting the torso at barb assault

 

But why? The +4 str is not worth the time you lost. It just mathematically isn't.

 

 

 

be more specific please.

 

 

 

additionally, i will stand on my argument. I value torso and its +4 str over any money, and exp i could of gotten. Mathematically, I don't care. lol no offense, but it gets it through i think.

 

Be more specific? Read my post. Your wasting millions and slowing your training down for the imaginary 'training' advantage you think your getting.

 

 

 

But like i said, I value torso over all that.

 

 

 

it goes back a perception argument. If someone likes torso, they get it because they like it and it outweighs any exp or money they would get.

 

No, it will not outweigh any exp or money they would get unless they train for hundreds of millions of exp. Perception is useless here, you are fundamentally wrong. 1 + 1 cannot be perceived to equal anything other than 2. The fun factor holds no mathematical value, so please stop using that.

 

I disagree with that; fun is very important. The problem is, most of the torso are being obtained via the incorrect assumption that they are worth using, not because players love BA. The reality is that your better off dropping it.

 

 

 

 

If you enjoy playing barbarian assault, then you enjoy the time spend getting a torso, and since having fun is the point of playing runescape, it is not time wasted.

 

See above.

 

 

 

perception is the whole argument here, please do not dismiss it as my opinion, as this whole thing is ur opinion as well. What your trying to do is trying to take my viewpoint away. I value torso over any time wasted on doing anything else. if there is nothing u can say to that then don't. But don't dismiss it as something that counter acts and disagrees with ur "fact" about torso not being worth it. as i said, i percieve\value torso differently.