Torso is NOT better then Adamant

[electrone0]

Excuse me as I come out like a fool, but just wear torag's and be happy. I mean seriously, the def is great.

[Danqazmlp]

Well yes but you get my point, the title is a false claim.

 

It's still not false. If you want to get a platebody, like many threads in H&A are about, you will get more XP from getting an adamant chainbody then a fighter torso.

 

 

 

But it is false. 1 to 1, discounting the way you get either item, torso IS beter than addy. comparing the 2 items side by side the torso is better, and will get mroe exp FACT. What you are comparing is the time it takes to get the two items, and adding that to the equation. What i'm saying is straight out, 1 on 1, torso is better.

 

The title doesn't say "Torso is NOT better than Adamant statwise", the title simply states "Torso is NOT better than Adamant" then in the first post the OP stated HOW adamant is better than the torso.

 

 

 

So in terms of efficiency, the torso isn't better than adamant - which is exactly what this thread is discussing.

 

 

 

Also to the person on the first couple of pages ranting about 'perception'... :wall:

In terms of efficiency if your anally retentive then yes i agree its more efficient, but in almost all other ways it isn't, so the title is false.

[Madmanpur3]

Well yes but you get my point, the title is a false claim.

 

It's still not false. If you want to get a platebody, like many threads in H&A are about, you will get more XP from getting an adamant chainbody then a fighter torso.

 

 

 

But it is false. 1 to 1, discounting the way you get either item, torso IS beter than addy. comparing the 2 items side by side the torso is better, and will get mroe exp FACT. What you are comparing is the time it takes to get the two items, and adding that to the equation. What i'm saying is straight out, 1 on 1, torso is better.

 

The title doesn't say "Torso is NOT better than Adamant statwise", the title simply states "Torso is NOT better than Adamant" then in the first post the OP stated HOW adamant is better than the torso.

 

 

 

So in terms of efficiency, the torso isn't better than adamant - which is exactly what this thread is discussing.

 

 

 

Also to the person on the first couple of pages ranting about 'perception'... :wall:

In terms of efficiency if your anally retentive then yes i agree its more efficient, but in almost all other ways it isn't, so the title is false.

 

You're probably the kind of person who thinks that getting full lumberjack is worth it too, huh?

[Danqazmlp]

[hide=]

Well yes but you get my point, the title is a false claim.

 

It's still not false. If you want to get a platebody, like many threads in H&A are about, you will get more XP from getting an adamant chainbody then a fighter torso.

 

 

 

But it is false. 1 to 1, discounting the way you get either item, torso IS beter than addy. comparing the 2 items side by side the torso is better, and will get mroe exp FACT. What you are comparing is the time it takes to get the two items, and adding that to the equation. What i'm saying is straight out, 1 on 1, torso is better.

 

The title doesn't say "Torso is NOT better than Adamant statwise", the title simply states "Torso is NOT better than Adamant" then in the first post the OP stated HOW adamant is better than the torso.

 

 

 

So in terms of efficiency, the torso isn't better than adamant - which is exactly what this thread is discussing.

 

 

 

Also to the person on the first couple of pages ranting about 'perception'... :wall:

In terms of efficiency if your anally retentive then yes i agree its more efficient, but in almost all other ways it isn't, so the title is false.

[/hide]

 

You're probably the kind of person who thinks that getting full lumberjack is worth it too, huh?

 

 

 

 

 

For me personally it was worth it as i wanted it for a goal, but thats a different argument totally.

 

 

 

Torso probably isn't worth it in efficiency for exp, but as i said, in almost all other aspects it is better, which is not what the title says.

 

 

 

If this was an argument on wether getting certain items was worth it then that is a totaly different argument, my argument is with the misleading title, i have satated i agree that over time and exp if your being analy retentive then yes torso is noit better, but in all other aspects it is better.

[Kietaro1]

Oh hell yeah lumberjack is worth it. In the trips it takes to get one I got 200+ watermelon seeds, several god pages from the vyrewatch, a ton of snakeskin, talon beast charms, snail shells=construction experience, silver bars, bowstrings by the boat load, pure essense, and a ton of lobsters. Man you talking about money maker, yeah lumberjack was worth it. Took me about 5 hours to get. Then I get extra experience for woodcutting... what is the question here exactly?

[Madmanpur3]

[hide=]

Well yes but you get my point, the title is a false claim.

 

It's still not false. If you want to get a platebody, like many threads in H&A are about, you will get more XP from getting an adamant chainbody then a fighter torso.

 

 

 

But it is false. 1 to 1, discounting the way you get either item, torso IS beter than addy. comparing the 2 items side by side the torso is better, and will get mroe exp FACT. What you are comparing is the time it takes to get the two items, and adding that to the equation. What i'm saying is straight out, 1 on 1, torso is better.

 

The title doesn't say "Torso is NOT better than Adamant statwise", the title simply states "Torso is NOT better than Adamant" then in the first post the OP stated HOW adamant is better than the torso.

 

 

 

So in terms of efficiency, the torso isn't better than adamant - which is exactly what this thread is discussing.

 

 

 

Also to the person on the first couple of pages ranting about 'perception'... :wall:

In terms of efficiency if your anally retentive then yes i agree its more efficient, but in almost all other ways it isn't, so the title is false.

[/hide]

 

You're probably the kind of person who thinks that getting full lumberjack is worth it too, huh?

 

 

 

 

 

For me personally it was worth it as i wanted it for a goal, but thats a different argument totally.

 

 

 

Torso probably isn't worth it in efficiency for exp, but as i said, in almost all other aspects it is better, which is not what the title says.

 

 

 

If this was an argument on wether getting certain items was worth it then that is a totaly different argument, my argument is with the misleading title, i have satated i agree that over time and exp if your being analy retentive then yes torso is noit better, but in all other aspects it is better.

 

The ONLY aspect in which torso is better than adamant, is purely stats. Seeing as how even that benefit is so small in the big picture, especially compared to the benefits of just going out and getting anything other than a torso, I'm failing to see how thinking addy chain > torso is only for the anally retentive.

 

 

 

He's not suggesting that everyone goes out and gets an addy chain because it's so awesome by any means. What he's saying is that while it's not that great to train with an addy chain, it's better to train with that than a torso.

 

 

 

The title is fine as it's clearly explained in the first post.

[Danqazmlp]

No your totally missing my point.

 

 

 

I accept that IF you dont already have a torso and hate BA'ing, then go with any other plate than a torso, fine, i agree with that. But in almost ALL other aspects, torso beats other plates. If you like BA'ing then get a torso as a by product of that, if you want something that looks nice, get the torso, if you already have a torso by all means definately use it as it is going to give you better exp than most plates.

 

 

 

p.s The plain statement of 'while it's not that great to train with an addy chain, it's better to train with that than a torso.' is totally false, because 1 on 1 discounting all other effects, get a guy stood with addy chain next to a guy with torso both training with the same other gear on the same monsters, the chances are very high that the guy with torso will get better exp.

 

 

 

TORSO IS ONLY NOT AS GOOD AT ADDY CHAIN IF YOU DON'T ALREADY HAVE TORSO AND DON'T LIKE PLAYING BA. < that is the truth that this thread is trying to point out.

[highlanders]

I heard that if you cut all foolish activites like eating, working and sleeping, your efficiency will raise by 1456.6%.

[killerbeer0]

 

Be more specific? Read my post. Your wasting millions and slowing your training down for the imaginary 'training' advantage you think your getting.

 

 

 

Think you could delve into the imaginary benefit of training strength before other melee stats? /i'd like to see what you come up with.

[Krazi]

Wow... interesting thread, read the ENTIRE thing while training at Armoured Zombies (efficiency ftw?). Mathematically, getting a torso is just not worth it. Simple to understand based on what Compfreak said. I believe somebody made a small correction to his math around page 4 or 5 but it only raised the efficiency of torso to a little over 1%, still definately not worth getting for.

 

 

 

Dan, Torso would only give faster xp if you are in a situation where the +4 strength actually raises your max hit, which it rarely does in my experience. You also say that "in almost ALL other aspects, torso beats other plates." What other aspects? It is obviously lacking in defence, and even a rune platebody blows it out of the water. Also, I don't see how it could beat a proselyte plate when it has 0 prayer bonus. So please define "other aspects."

 

 

 

The whole point of this thread is that Torso just not worth it mathematically. Period.

 

 

 

P.S. Who the hell had to make a "Adamant is NOT better than Torso" thread?

[Danqazmlp]

 

 

 

Dan, Torso would only give faster xp if you are in a situation where the +4 strength actually raises your max hit, which it rarely does in my experience. You also say that "in almost ALL other aspects, torso beats other plates." What other aspects? It is obviously lacking in defence, and even a rune platebody blows it out of the water. Also, I don't see how it could beat a proselyte plate when it has 0 prayer bonus. So please define "other aspects."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Torso beats all regular metal platebodies in slash defence, so in most pvp cases and against a fair amount of monsters it will give higher def. It also more often than 'rarely' increases your max. It looks a fair bit better imo than addy chain and most other regular metal plates. I don't get wqhy you say prosy plate, ofcourse that will beat almost all plates if your praying, but that isn't my point, the thread is about addy chain which clearly, unless you don't have torso and hate ba is better than addy chain, i will even say it is better than rune plate in a fair amount of cases.

[snowball]

No your totally missing my point.

 

 

 

I accept that IF you dont already have a torso and hate BA'ing, then go with any other plate than a torso, fine, i agree with that. But in almost ALL other aspects, torso beats other plates. If you like BA'ing then get a torso as a by product of that, if you want something that looks nice, get the torso, if you already have a torso by all means definately use it as it is going to give you better exp than most plates.

 

 

 

p.s The plain statement of 'while it's not that great to train with an addy chain, it's better to train with that than a torso.' is totally false, because 1 on 1 discounting all other effects, get a guy stood with addy chain next to a guy with torso both training with the same other gear on the same monsters, the chances are very high that the guy with torso will get better exp.

 

 

 

TORSO IS ONLY NOT AS GOOD AT ADDY CHAIN IF YOU DON'T ALREADY HAVE TORSO AND DON'T LIKE PLAYING BA. < that is the truth that this thread is trying to point out.

 

 

 

I disagree withe the All other aspects thing you said. I understand that one may happen to get a fighter torso while having fun at BA, and that it has some stats that are superior to the adamant plate, what other aspects is it better in? One definetly won't pvp in Fighter (unless you can get another for free or you 3/1 item). Adamant can be sold once you finish with it. For fighter torso, you just have to keep it and hope that a chest does not come out that blows it out of the water. Adamant is shorter to obtain than fighter, thats for sure. If you have to use a magic spell for some reason, or take a spell hit, the addy plate is better. Fighter (by pics on other thread) is heavier.

 

 

 

I do, however, agree that if you do not like BA, dont try to get the Fighter torso. If you like it, by all means, get it. I got the stealing creation and Void knight stuff myself, just because I like those minigames.

 

 

 

EDIT. You recently posted as I typed this, referring to cases again. What are they?

 

Also, The torso does look cool :thumbsup:

[ydrasil]

There is something I want to correct. Many people keep stating this and not one person has gotten it right yet. It is when people say "the +4 strength bonus doesn't always increase your max hit, therefore it provides no advantage", or something to that effect. It is true that on average to increase your max hit by one, requires about +5 or +6 or about that. Does that make the +4 worthless? No it does not.

 

 

 

Here is an example, say you have X Strength level and +120 strength bonus, your max hit is exactly 40.0. If you use a Torso (this works with all other strength bonus increasing items also), it becomes +124. In game, the highest damage 'splat' you will ever see is still 40 however, your max hit is not 40. Your max hit is 40.8 or something to that effect (always rounds down on Runescape when it is combat). So what does this mean? Since the when you hit (not a 0), the damage can range from 1-40, you have essentially one chance to hit that 40. This is due to how the combat system works, it is random what you hit to an extent, with your average hit being about half. With 40.8, you have a higher chance to hit 40 (although a small increase). This also means that on average you will be hitting higher, regardless of if it actually increases the damage by 1.

 

 

 

Note that I still think Torso isn't worth getting just for training, I am simply correcting everyone's mistake.

[Danqazmlp]

Snowball, if your meaning when i say in most pvp cases, i mean that most fights anybody meleeing you will be using a weapon with slash attack, dds, gs, whip all use slash primarily, so the torso's defence will be helping, and the chance to hit higher will also help if your going for the ko.(just think the times you've red barred somebody or something, that extra 1 would have come in handy)

 

 

 

Now you say against mages it would be useless, all plates are really, when against a mage you wear mage defence, or wear mage gear when maging.

[purewcnub]

All this efficiency stuff... I could care less. I'd rather keep all of this complex math contained in my Geometry class...

 

I play the game for fun, not to make complex calculations...

[Krazi]

 

 

 

Dan, Torso would only give faster xp if you are in a situation where the +4 strength actually raises your max hit, which it rarely does in my experience. You also say that "in almost ALL other aspects, torso beats other plates." What other aspects? It is obviously lacking in defence, and even a rune platebody blows it out of the water. Also, I don't see how it could beat a proselyte plate when it has 0 prayer bonus. So please define "other aspects."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Torso beats all regular metal platebodies in slash defence, so in most pvp cases and against a fair amount of monsters it will give higher def. It also more often than 'rarely' increases your max. It looks a fair bit better imo than addy chain and most other regular metal plates. I don't get wqhy you say prosy plate, ofcourse that will beat almost all plates if your praying, but that isn't my point, the thread is about addy chain which clearly, unless you don't have torso and hate ba is better than addy chain, i will even say it is better than rune plate in a fair amount of cases.

Even if torso is better than rune platebody in *one* defence stat and the +4 strength, is +4 strength and +5 defence really worth 8-10 hours of Barbarian Assault (took me about that btw, with a decent team too). Im sure during that time that you could train your strength level and get your max hit up at least 1 damage point, along with the xp along the way.

 

 

 

If you still think it is better than rune platebody, then consider an Elite Black Platebody, which is currently at 225k in the G.E, and gives same slash defence as torso, with higher stab defence, albeit lower crush defence.

 

Want me to go on? Granite Plate is less than 70k in G.E, and only gives one less slash defence than torso, not to mention better defence in everything else. So is +4 strength really worth 8 hours when you could just spend 70k and get a better product?

[Danqazmlp]

You could go on all day, heck, start a thread saying elite platebody is better than a torso and i will not disagree. This thread is claiming addy chain /plate is better than torso, they are not.

 

 

 

And yes, +4 str and +5 def are worth another 8-10 hours if they save your life and get you a kill.

 

 

 

When was anything in rs REALLY worth it?

[snowball]

Snowball, if your meaning when i say in most pvp cases, i mean that most fights anybody meleeing you will be using a weapon with slash attack, dds, gs, whip all use slash primarily, so the torso's defence will be helping, and the chance to hit higher will also help if your going for the ko.(just think the times you've red barred somebody or something, that extra 1 would have come in handy)

 

 

 

Now you say against mages it would be useless, all plates are really, when against a mage you wear mage defence, or wear mage gear when maging.

 

 

 

I see what you mean in the PVP cases (a dds uses stab I belive), but that then means you either have to 3-item or have it as one of your top 3 items (unless skulled).

 

 

 

Wait, why would a person with 40 defence even use an addy body?

[Danqazmlp]

idk actually, but torso has +5 slash def and +4 str over rune plate too.

[snowball]

 

 

 

Dan, Torso would only give faster xp if you are in a situation where the +4 strength actually raises your max hit, which it rarely does in my experience. You also say that "in almost ALL other aspects, torso beats other plates." What other aspects? It is obviously lacking in defence, and even a rune platebody blows it out of the water. Also, I don't see how it could beat a proselyte plate when it has 0 prayer bonus. So please define "other aspects."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Torso beats all regular metal platebodies in slash defence, so in most pvp cases and against a fair amount of monsters it will give higher def. It also more often than 'rarely' increases your max. It looks a fair bit better imo than addy chain and most other regular metal plates. I don't get wqhy you say prosy plate, ofcourse that will beat almost all plates if your praying, but that isn't my point, the thread is about addy chain which clearly, unless you don't have torso and hate ba is better than addy chain, i will even say it is better than rune plate in a fair amount of cases.

Even if torso is better than rune platebody in *one* defence stat and the +4 strength, is +4 strength and +5 defence really worth 8-10 hours of Barbarian Assault (took me about that btw, with a decent team too). Im sure during that time that you could train your strength level and get your max hit up at least 1 damage point, along with the xp along the way.

 

 

 

If you still think it is better than rune platebody, then consider an Elite Black Platebody, which is currently at 225k in the G.E, and gives same slash defence as torso, with higher stab defence, albeit lower crush defence.

 

Want me to go on? Granite Plate is less than 70k in G.E, and only gives one less slash defence than torso, not to mention better defence in everything else. So is +4 strength really worth 8 hours when you could just spend 70k and get a better product?

 

 

 

The problem is, we could easily say that the g pl8 or a rune pl8 is better (but thats not here nor there), but the question for the thread is dealing with the Addy plate and chain

[ydrasil]

Wait, why would a person with 40 defence even use an addy body?

 

I believe the point is that if even something as simple as the Adamant Chainbody is better than a Torso, then clearly the Torse is far from being good.

[Krazi]

You could go on all day, heck, start a thread saying elite platebody is better than a torso and i will not disagree. This thread is claiming addy chain /plate is better than torso, they are not.

 

 

 

And yes, +4 str and +5 def are worth another 8-10 hours if they save your life and get you a kill.

 

 

 

When was anything in rs REALLY worth it?

This thread is simply claiming that the Torso is not worth the time it takes to get one. Now I realize that the chainbody is lacking in defence compared to torso. And the always-present strength bonus. But, even that can be made up for when you get an extra 8 hours of training instead of getting a Torso.

 

 

 

In your last sentence, I assume you are talking about PvP. In this case, torso seems even more pointless. Snowball touched on this point- everybody dies in PvP at one time or another. Nobody is perfect. One death and torso is gone. Sure you can argue that that +1 max hit will KO the person that normally would have been red-barred, but in the time it takes to get torso, you could easily get a strength level which would raise your max hit and give xp. That frees up a spot for a better platebody, such as granite/guthans/whatever.

[Danqazmlp]

your forgetting that a str level doesent always increase your max aswell as torso. And for me, 2 str levels takes alot longer than 8 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

Can we not just agree that if you hate BA, dont already have a torso don't get one, but if you have one already or enjoy BA, then it will be better in certain situations than alot of other plates?

[ydrasil]

your forgetting that a str level doesent always increase your max aswell as torso. And for me, 2 str levels takes alot longer than 8 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

Can we not just agree that if you hate BA, dont already have a torso don't get one, but if you have one already or enjoy BA, then it will be better in certain situations than alot of other plates?

 

Does no-one read my posts? :cry:

 

 

 

There is something I want to correct. Many people keep stating this and not one person has gotten it right yet. It is when people say "the +4 strength bonus doesn't always increase your max hit, therefore it provides no advantage", or something to that effect. It is true that on average to increase your max hit by one, requires about +5 or +6 or about that. Does that make the +4 worthless? No it does not.

 

 

 

Here is an example, say you have X Strength level and +120 strength bonus, your max hit is exactly 40.0. If you use a Torso (this works with all other strength bonus increasing items also), it becomes +124. In game, the highest damage 'splat' you will ever see is still 40 however, your max hit is not 40. Your max hit is 40.8 or something to that effect (always rounds down on Runescape when it is combat). So what does this mean? Since the when you hit (not a 0), the damage can range from 1-40, you have essentially one chance to hit that 40. This is due to how the combat system works, it is random what you hit to an extent, with your average hit being about half. With 40.8, you have a higher chance to hit 40 (although a small increase). This also means that on average you will be hitting higher, regardless of if it actually increases the damage by 1.

 

 

 

Note that I still think Torso isn't worth getting just for training, I am simply correcting everyone's mistake.

 

It works the same way for Strength level as the bonus.

[bedman]

your forgetting that a str level doesent always increase your max aswell as torso. And for me, 2 str levels takes alot longer than 8 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

Can we not just agree that if you hate BA, dont already have a torso don't get one, but if you have one already or enjoy BA, then it will be better in certain situations than alot of other plates?

 

 

 

Okay, but not in non-safe PVP. The situations where it is useful are mostly very scarce. In fact, with bandos plate available, I dont see any. (Yet, I dont own a bandos plate, so I use torso every now and then)