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When are you accountable for your actions?


Zaaps1

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You know, there are quite a few threads around here along the lines of "I lagged and died, lost 30m of stuff", or "I was about to retrieve my stuff when I d/c'd". It got me thinking. At what point are you accountable for your misfortune compared to Jagex, their server, or your internet?

 

 

 

For example. Let's say you were killing Jad. Let's assume that you weren't very good at it, so it took a long time. Somewhere during this, you get a small message "System Update in 9:59 minutes". You hurry up and spend all of your resources to try to finish him off as quickly as possible, but alas, you just aren't good enough to finish him in 10 minutes. You are auto-logged, and you must restart the Fight Caves from Wave 1. Who is responsible? Are you responsible for not being prepared? Or is Jagex responsible for putting a system update at that moment? What if you just finished the 2 360s and thought you could take down Jad in the time remaining, but couldn't? Is it still Jagex's fault, or yours?

 

 

 

Here's another example. I recently read a post about someone using the HP transfer Lunar Spell at duo TDs. The poster was the ranger, who would give his melee partner some of his health (using the spell) when the TD hit big. However, one time when he did this, his partner died before the hp could reach him. But he still lost 70hp from the spell, and he also died since he could not eat fast enough. Whose fault is it? Their's, or Jagex's? Should they have brought a Ring of Life? Should he have been wiser as to when to use the spell?

 

 

 

What if you're in PvP and are fighting someone? What if you lag and die? Is it your fault for not ensuring you have good connection before taking the risk, or is it your internet's problem?

 

 

 

What if you died at, say Goraks, and you needed a Lunar/Dramen staff to return, but realized you had none. Is it Jagex's fault, or your's?

 

 

 

What if you died somewhere else and COULD return to it, but disconnected before reaching your grave? Whose fault is it?

 

 

 

What if you died because someone else was abusing a bug? Is that your fault, or Jagex's?

 

 

 

Basically, the question I am asking is: At what point are you accountable for the consequences of your actions? I've provided a few examples to get you thinking, but you don't need to stick to them at all.

 

[hide=My Personal Opinion]If you had ample knowledge of the danger beforehand, and knew the risks, or simply did not go properly prepared, I think it is your fault. Of course, I'd still feel sorry for you, but I believe that at that point, it's your fault, and not a deflect in the system.[/hide]

 

 

 

SIDE NOTE: When I say it's Jagex's fault, I do not mean that Jagex had the intention. I simply mean that Jagex was the main causer of the action.

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For example. Let's say you were killing Jad. Let's assume that you weren't very good at it, so it took a long time. Somewhere during this, you get a small message "System Update in 9:59 minutes". You hurry up and spend all of your resources to try to finish him off as quickly as possible, but alas, you just aren't good enough to finish him in 10 minutes. You are auto-logged, and you must restart the Fight Caves from Wave 1. Who is responsible? Are you responsible for not being prepared? Or is Jagex responsible for putting a system update at that moment? What if you just finished the 2 360s and thought you could take down Jad in the time remaining, but couldn't? Is it still Jagex's fault, or yours?

 

 

 

 

your fault,just log out when you see the system update message.

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For example. Let's say you were killing Jad. Let's assume that you weren't very good at it, so it took a long time. Somewhere during this, you get a small message "System Update in 9:59 minutes". You hurry up and spend all of your resources to try to finish him off as quickly as possible, but alas, you just aren't good enough to finish him in 10 minutes. You are auto-logged, and you must restart the Fight Caves from Wave 1. Who is responsible? Are you responsible for not being prepared? Or is Jagex responsible for putting a system update at that moment? What if you just finished the 2 360s and thought you could take down Jad in the time remaining, but couldn't? Is it still Jagex's fault, or yours?

 

 

 

 

your fault,just log out when you see the system update message.

 

 

 

I may be under the wrong impression, but I'm pretty sure you must log out at the end of the wave in order for your progress to be saved.

 

 

 

EDIT: You also can't log out until 10 seconds after combat. I don't think Jad's going to let you off for that long.

 

EDIT2:

 

To do this, click the logout button ONCE at any time during a "wave" of monsters. You will get a message in your chat window that your logout request has been saved and you will automatically be logged out after the current wave. Next time you log in to your account, you will still be in the Fight Cave and the next wave of monsters will start. If you click logout again before then, you will lose your place in the game and will have to start over. Logging out to save your place is NOT recommended after reaching the level 360's(see below) as your prayer is turned off upon logging in and you can be instantly hit for some very heavy damage.
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For example. Let's say you were killing Jad. Let's assume that you weren't very good at it, so it took a long time. Somewhere during this, you get a small message "System Update in 9:59 minutes". You hurry up and spend all of your resources to try to finish him off as quickly as possible, but alas, you just aren't good enough to finish him in 10 minutes. You are auto-logged, and you must restart the Fight Caves from Wave 1. Who is responsible? Are you responsible for not being prepared? Or is Jagex responsible for putting a system update at that moment? What if you just finished the 2 360s and thought you could take down Jad in the time remaining, but couldn't? Is it still Jagex's fault, or yours?

 

 

 

 

your fault,just log out when you see the system update message.

 

 

 

I may be under the wrong impression, but I'm pretty sure you must log out at the end of the wave in order for your progress to be saved.

 

 

 

EDIT: You also can't log out until 10 seconds after combat. I don't think Jad's going to let you off for that long.

 

 

 

sorry,but that is what i ment.

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For example. Let's say you were killing Jad. Let's assume that you weren't very good at it, so it took a long time. Somewhere during this, you get a small message "System Update in 9:59 minutes". You hurry up and spend all of your resources to try to finish him off as quickly as possible, but alas, you just aren't good enough to finish him in 10 minutes. You are auto-logged, and you must restart the Fight Caves from Wave 1. Who is responsible? Are you responsible for not being prepared? Or is Jagex responsible for putting a system update at that moment? What if you just finished the 2 360s and thought you could take down Jad in the time remaining, but couldn't? Is it still Jagex's fault, or yours?

 

 

 

 

your fault,just log out when you see the system update message.

 

 

 

I may be under the wrong impression, but I'm pretty sure you must log out at the end of the wave in order for your progress to be saved.

 

 

 

EDIT: You also can't log out until 10 seconds after combat. I don't think Jad's going to let you off for that long.

 

 

 

sorry,but that is what i ment.

 

 

 

But you can't log out since Jad is still alive, or are you referring to the second example?

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yes im reffering to the second and jad will leave you for 10 seconds.

 

 

 

Ah, alright. I would agree, in that case.

 

 

 

I know there are ways to get Jad off you, but if someone does not know those methods, is it his fault for not preparing properly? I mean, the chances of this happening are pretty low.

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My best experince with this was a few weeks after 99 woodcutting. I bought a santa hat with the cash I made. One day, I was woodcutting and firemaking at the eucalyptus trees. I was on TIF posting something when I came back to runescape... I had lagged out. So I waited, and when i can came back...I had died from a random...and lost my santa.

 

 

 

At first I was very mad at jagex with the random event system...and wished I had gotten something that I would not die from. But I came to realize that it was my fault. My computer at the time was slow... and the problem is my fault I was on a connect that could not hold up runescape and TIF. So yeah...it's my fault :lol:

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My stance is pretty much that it's pretty much always your fault.

 

 

 

With the Jad thing, that's bad timing on your part unless you were going for the fire cape on a day other than Tuesday (when most updates are released).

 

 

 

When it comes to DC'ing in a dangerous area, I would only say it's not your fault if you generally don't disconnect more than like once a day. If you DC a lot and knowingly enter somewhere dangerous, DC and die, that is, imo, on you (although I empathise with people who do DC a lot and go to dangerous places anyways (missing out on content because of a crappy connection is lame) since their parents are generally the ones that decide what ISP they have).

 

 

 

When you die because of someone abusing a bug, I would have to say that it depends on if you knew about the bug beforehand. Of course, the bug abuser is the one that needs punishing, but if you knew the bug was out there (and/or, possibly, just weren't paying any attention to what was happening), then it is also your fault in that you made the choice to do something you knew was likely to kill you.

 

 

 

Pretty much, if you had any (plausible) way to avoid it, it's your fault.

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People are accountable for their actions a lot more than they think that they are.

 

 

 

Disconnections are usually not a person's fault. I've run into that problem a few times before, lost millions, but I accepted the loss. Most people won't hold themselves accountable because they want to deny that they had anything to do with it. I rarely disconnect, but the times that I have, I've simply accepted it and moved on, trying to get back what I've lost.

 

 

 

Here's my interpretation of being accountable: if you knew that something could very well go wrong and said "Screw it, I'll try anyway" -- it's your fault.

If you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.

 

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For instances in which you don't lag out, I think a few people have gotten to this before me... It's all about knowledge of risks. If you were standing in the middle of falador and got killed by a bug abuser, it is obviously not your fault because you had absolutely no reason to acknowledge a risk. However, if you are doing something like health transfer, knowing well that the tormented demons are waiting a few squares away to massacre you, you know there are risks and yet still press on.

 

 

 

As to lagging out... this is like a surgery. Regardless of previous health and type of surgery, there is always a slim chance someone will die from a surgery, be it an unknown reaction to anesthesia or some other uncontrollable circumstance. In times like this, it isn't really anybody's fault. The surgeon obviously had no way of knowing that you would react to the anesthesia, neither did the anesthesiologist, and neither did you.

 

 

 

It can also be compared to getting struck by lightning. There are things like staying near trees, staying off high ground, and such that can reduce the chances, just like you can make sure you have a good ISP and sound connections, but there is always that slim chance.

 

 

 

In both cases, when it happens, it is nobody's fault. Blame it on the gods, lady luck, your rabbit's foot, or whatever you want.

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For instances in which you don't lag out, I think a few people have gotten to this before me... It's all about knowledge of risks. If you were standing in the middle of falador and got killed by a bug abuser, it is obviously not your fault because you had absolutely no reason to acknowledge a risk. However, if you are doing something like health transfer, knowing well that the tormented demons are waiting a few squares away to massacre you, you know there are risks and yet still press on.

 

 

 

As to lagging out... this is like a surgery. Regardless of previous health and type of surgery, there is always a slim chance someone will die from a surgery, be it an unknown reaction to anesthesia or some other uncontrollable circumstance. In times like this, it isn't really anybody's fault. The surgeon obviously had no way of knowing that you would react to the anesthesia, neither did the anesthesiologist, and neither did you.

 

 

 

It can also be compared to getting struck by lightning. There are things like staying near trees, staying off high ground, and such that can reduce the chances, just like you can make sure you have a good ISP and sound connections, but there is always that slim chance.

 

 

 

In both cases, when it happens, it is nobody's fault. Blame it on the gods, lady luck, your rabbit's foot, or whatever you want.

 

 

 

I agree with most of what you said, except:

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure standing near trees INCREASES the risk of getting hit by lightning, not reducing it.

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Jagex gives you ample warning everywhere. Unless there is a major bug causing you to randomly die, it is your own fault.

 

 

I'm pretty sure standing near trees INCREASES the risk of getting hit by lightning, not reducing it.

 

 

 

No, the lightning will hit the tree rather than you (Assuming the tree is taller than you are). It will try to hit the tallest object to ground itself. And you're not as nice of a ground as the tree, since it has to do more work to get to you (work as in the literal physics meaning of work, force*distance, force is constant, distance to you is greater than the distance to the tree)

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Jagex gives you ample warning everywhere. Unless there is a major bug causing you to randomly die, it is your own fault.

 

 

I'm pretty sure standing near trees INCREASES the risk of getting hit by lightning, not reducing it.

 

 

 

No, the lightning will hit the tree rather than you (Assuming the tree is taller than you are). It will try to hit the tallest object to ground itself. And you're not as nice of a ground as the tree, since it has to do more work to get to you (work as in the literal physics meaning of work, force*distance, force is constant, distance to you is greater than the distance to the tree)

 

 

 

But if you're next to a tree, and the tree gets hit, then you would run the risk of getting hit as well.

 

 

 

From the NYS Safety Manual

 

If you are in the woods, look for an area of shorter trees. Crouch down away from tree trunks.

 

 

 

I guess we're both right then. Did you mean short trees or tall trees or solitary trees? I'd imagine short trees are the only safe ones of the 3, and you're still advised to stay away from the trunks.

 

 

 

But this is a little off-topic.

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Jagex gives you ample warning everywhere. Unless there is a major bug causing you to randomly die, it is your own fault.

 

 

 

Except for that random bug from 2005 that caused players to randomly die while in the Tears of Guthix mini-game.

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It's everyone's/everything's fault to a point. Even your mom is to blame. She gave birth to you, therefore causing you to eventually fight Jad and disconnect. That being said, you should mostly only worry about yourself. You can't control being born, you can't control Jagex's servers. The only person's actions that you can control (effectively) are your own.

 

 

 

Become the master of your fate - don't let fate become the master of you.

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Accountability is something that you don't normally find in the Runescape community unless you're talking to a more mature group. When have you ever seen someone not complain over something? And when they do, who do they usually blame? Jagex.

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Accountability is something that you don't normally find in the Runescape community unless you're talking to a more mature group. When have you ever seen someone not complain over something? And when they do, who do they usually blame? Jagex.

 

 

 

It's a very common mentality to have. That's why when something really bad happens in real life people always blame it on god instead of themselves.

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Jagex gives you ample warning everywhere. Unless there is a major bug causing you to randomly die, it is your own fault.

 

 

I'm pretty sure standing near trees INCREASES the risk of getting hit by lightning, not reducing it.

 

 

 

No, the lightning will hit the tree rather than you (Assuming the tree is taller than you are). It will try to hit the tallest object to ground itself. And you're not as nice of a ground as the tree, since it has to do more work to get to you (work as in the literal physics meaning of work, force*distance, force is constant, distance to you is greater than the distance to the tree)

 

 

 

You have a higher chance of being crushed to death by the falling tree that was just stuck by lighting, then you have of being hit by the lightning.

 

 

 

I would deem a lot of disconnections an "act of god", rather then blaming them on someone. Other then that though, its often the person's fault. I see stuff all the time like "It wasn't my fault I died, my prayer ran out and graardor hit a 60 on me", and blaming it on jagex as if Andrew himself hacked the game right at that instant, drained your prayer, and programed graar to hit higher.

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If you want to blame someone else, if it makes you feel better if you do, just blame Jagex, it's not like they care if you say it's their fault. If I was in the Fight Caves at Jad, and flubbed up the prayer switch because I waited a bit too long, I'd blame the lag, and just go back and try again. It personally makes me feel better when I believe the fault wasn't my own, but something else's, so I'd have the mindset to try whatever I just flubbed again, instead of blaming myself and saying I'm just too noob to do it.

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