Hegemony-V2 begins page 302

[Grim_]

The Anti-War League, realizing that the great State of Russia is going to be divided piecemeal, rather than a new overlord, seize ground bases and attempts to activate the space based defense systems. To this end they are aided by frightened civil servants, the army and just about every patriot that is left. The aim is to avoid war if possible and preserve the Greater Russian Landmass. To this end an Ultimatum is sent 'We demand a supreme ruler or we will open fire'

(About 3/4s of what is left, whatever that is, mobilizes for a war. While it is true that defensive plans and such have been pretty much destroyed by the lack of organization a hefty defense will still be mounted.)

Malaysia because it can bombs the crap out of their headquarters with space based kinetic weapondry.

[archimage_a]

Malaysia is a small country (Relatively speaking) what assurances do we have that you can protect us?

[Grim_]

Malaysia is a small country (Relatively speaking) what assurances do we have that you can protect us?

Check the map i have a small empire. I also happen to have the first or second largest space defense system around earth as well as the fact that I can offer an assurance against starvation as grain is ridiculously cheap in my country.

[The Dark Lord]

Malaysia is a small country (Relatively speaking) what assurances do we have that you can protect us?

 

I, John III of the Britannian Empire, will offer the Russian peoples the same brotherhood and protection that all people under the Britannian banner have. We will personally work to improve the Russian peoples' lives, and our vast military will protect them in the future.

[Grim_]

Malaysia is a small country (Relatively speaking) what assurances do we have that you can protect us?

 

I, John III of the Britannian Empire, will offer the Russian peoples the same brotherhood and protection that all people under the Britannian banner have. We will personally work to improve the Russian peoples' lives, and our vast military will protect them in the future.

I Grim* president of malaysia renounce my claim to the russian land and instead stake a claim to russian projects and their space force where it may be.

*= real name not given

[archimage_a]

I Grim* president of malaysia renounce my claim to the russian land and instead stake a claim to russian projects and their space force where it may be.

What assurances can we have that these projects will not be later used against us.

 

I, John III of the Britannian Empire, will offer the Russian peoples the same brotherhood and protection that all people under the Britannian banner have. We will personally work to improve the Russian peoples' lives, and our vast military will protect them in the future.

Our two great nations have much in common and your nation is most powerful, but what of your war declarations? Will you force us into a war which the people cannot fight?

[Grim_]

I Grim* president of malaysia renounce my claim to the russian land and instead stake a claim to russian projects and their space force where it may be.

What assurances can we have that these projects will not be later used against us.

 

I, John III of the Britannian Empire, will offer the Russian peoples the same brotherhood and protection that all people under the Britannian banner have. We will personally work to improve the Russian peoples' lives, and our vast military will protect them in the future.

Our two great nations have much in common and your nation is most powerful, but what of your war declarations? Will you force us into a war which the people cannot fight?

Why would I use it against you? Your home planet is far away and you do not even know what those are. My secret service and special forces are now hunting down your scientists for information and extradition.

[The Dark Lord]

I Grim* president of malaysia renounce my claim to the russian land and instead stake a claim to russian projects and their space force where it may be.

What assurances can we have that these projects will not be later used against us.

 

I, John III of the Britannian Empire, will offer the Russian peoples the same brotherhood and protection that all people under the Britannian banner have. We will personally work to improve the Russian peoples' lives, and our vast military will protect them in the future.

Our two great nations have much in common and your nation is most powerful, but what of your war declarations? Will you force us into a war which the people cannot fight?

 

I will not force the Russian peoples to fight a war that they cannot fight. If I am put into a position to defend the Russian Motherland from invaders, there will only be defensive fighting. No Russian will be expected to join the military unless they want to, and we will vow to increase our diplomacy in order to prevent future wars. We also uphold our membership in the world's largest alliance organisation as a testament to our diplomatic endeavours of the past.

[archimage_a]

Why would I use it against you? Your home planet is far away and you do not even know what those are. My secret service and special forces are now hunting down your scientists for information and extradition.

*The voice is different from before, as though the timid diplomat has been replaced by a General.

We will not give way to your violent demands.*There is a metallic thud as the operator strikes the table.* Your fleet may be strong and your services may very well be within our country this very second but at the moment we have weapons to destroy you and we shall not hesitate to use them!

 

I will not force the Russian peoples to fight a war that they cannot fight. If I am put into a position to defend the Russian Motherland from invaders, there will only be defensive fighting. No Russian will be expected to join the military unless they want to, and we will vow to increase our diplomacy in order to prevent future wars

*General's Voice*

Mother Russia pledges her undying loyalty to you. All hail Tsar John the First of Russia!

 

There is a wired message as well: I, Field Marshal Demeter place my administrative capacities at your disposal, your excellency.

 

(The accession of Greater Russian power falls to Tsar John the First, not soon after the Anti-War League take up arms against the new accession of power, and in the struggle kill the Field Marshall, but his underlings survive and ensure that Tsar John the First is accepted by the Greater Russian people.)

 

Total dead(in the Greater Russian Area), two million. (Its a few weeks of fighting)

[The Dark Lord]

The Emperor has accepted his title, and as first order of business, the troops that have been dispatched into the Russian Motherland and elsewhere fights the terrorists in order to defend the Motherland. More soldiers will be supplied as needed, and Lancelots and Galahads will be used, as well as hypersonic aircraft and "Dragonfly" helicopters (the new kind).

[Wisp]

Wait, so how did we decide that they gave control to sere? Atleast wait til dusty posts. The people would actually have a reason to join him.

[archimage_a]

Well basically my reasoning was that the army was paralyzed without popular support and the popular front 'We don't want to be divided into mince' was powerless without the army. Thus the army lets popular support grown under the civilian leader, then at the first instance of trouble seizes control and signs up to the most powerful nation within its boarder space... and since Britannia is already in control of the African area, the Siberian area and, significantly was there when they wanted to negotiate it seemed only logical to hand control over to them.

Especially since empires tend to delegate power to powerful individuals, AKA Field Marshal Demeter, and then his underlings... Where as a Democracy would want the Civilian administration running the show... Indeed if Grim had not postured then the civilian administration would have been swayed but wanted to wait for other parties to present their views... The army wanted power and they wanted it then. However I did not plan to just hand power over completely, the threat of rebellion, particularly in the West, makes it possible that the Terran Federation will still gain some territory...

 

As the Munich Conference showed, things are achieved faster with a few well spoken words than with fifty divisions of soldiers.

[Wisp]

Well, considering the Terran Federation has been the ally of russia for about a hundred years the citizens would be way more likely to support them. Plus, siberia is worthless. All it would mean is tons of lost soldiers and equipment.

How would they even "take control of siberia". It's 13 million square kilometers. Most of that is taiga or tundra.

[archimage_a]

Citizens yes, army? It seems unlikely.

Anyway, as I said I am preparing a post script, but it will take time. Basically I am thinking about a counter revolution, since Sere is already committed the present system will probably take a large section of territory but it is by no means over...The Greater Russian Area is just the area which was vaguely under control...Ie the key territories, Moscow, Petrograd (Leningrad/St Petersburg) ect.

[RpgGamer]

If no one has any objections, I'd like to claim Russia's former Mars property. I'd prefer if everyone agreed to just give it to me. If not, remember that every military unit in my possession is on or orbitting Mars.

 

Also, this happened recently:

Don't bother objecting to that part. I announced expansion like 4 or 5 years ago.

[Wisp]

Well, we could always start a war over this.

[Grim_]

Sigh I am going to say that I captured enough scientists to learn what the secret project was. (Pmed walka to ask about it) so that should be done soon. That reminds me archimage would you care to join in the largest alliance in the game?

[archimage_a]

Post Script:

 

(I will control all Russian powers in the interim, unless someone has valid reasons)

Ok, the War of Accession(so far as the popular front which was/is led by the Anti-War League) has gone fairly badly for Russia with Britannia troops being invited to stay by the Military and an invasion of South Valdivostok and most of Kamchatika being taken by the Japanese arm of Britannia, and administered by them. Control has been retained in the rest of Siberia due to forced collaboration with the Popular front to stave off the Imperial advance.

Greater Russia has been divided into four flavours: The dominated, the Scandinavian, the Terran and the Free.

The majority of the Greater Russian area has been 'given' to Britannia but is under nominal Russian Military control. The Trans-Siberian Railroad(Maglev, whatever it is now) cuts a swath of Military control though the otherwise untamed regions of Inner Russia. Arkhangelsk has also been controlled by the Military as has a service strip.

The Scandinavian have resisted the Militaries attempts but are too far from the Terran Federation, and lack a stable landline to the European Continent. Thus they have thrown themselves on the mercy of the Scandinavians in the hope that protection is forthcoming.

The Terran are areas which have staved off Military dominance AND are close enough to the Terran Federation to request help and believe it to be forthcoming.

The Free are far from free...They are fighting internally and more crucially externally. It is nearly certain that they will either break apart and form new states or they will be subsumed by the Britannia super power.

[The Dark Lord]

Sigh I am going to say that I captured enough scientists to learn what the secret project was. (Pmed walka to ask about it) so that should be done soon. That reminds me archimage would you care to join in the largest alliance in the game?

 

He's a neutral player. I say, let him be neutral, especially since he plays as a rebel faction.

[archimage_a]

Indeed, think 1770s Britain. We see a somewhat unheard of power suddenly revolutionize the way the universe works(Industrial Revolution and the Quark Revolution... added to that is the Napoleonic War and the potential war). In the interim though I have a large surplus of food to sell and your alliance has a large surplus of food... thus economically it would be foolish, far better to remain neutral, pick up civilians wherever I can and grow my technology base to one which rivals all others. Followed by a long stretch at the top and finally a sudden decline and then I will join your alliance. =D

Anyway:

 

[Hide=Update for Today]

[Hide=Techno Update]

Technology update

In progress:

Heat Pads

1 New Metal- 6/15

3 Standardization of Vessels- 4/5

4 Quantum Rifle- 5/10

9 Gravity Lensing- 2/10

10 Silent Running- 2/3

5 Station outfitting- 1/12

8 Construction of 5 Caravel class- 1/12

6 Heat Resilient Genetic Engineering- 2/23

Quark Tungsten Extract 2/2

Strange (Quark) Matter 1/1

Strange Matter II 0/1

Valence Theory 0/6

 

[Hide=Caravel]

Hull Design 1/1

Micro/Macro Array 3/3

Ion Thrusters 3/3

Gated Torpedos 5/5

7 Transporters 4/8

Nuclear Core 2/2

DOCKING procedure theorized and built in.

[/Hide]

 

[Hide=Explained]

Heat Pads- Civil devices which provide energy, similar to solar panels in efficiency.

Strange (Quark) Matter- Creates Strange Quarks out of Up and Down Quarks by use of high density Tungsten in a fast acting conversion process, within a gold pressed sphere. Each element requiring a different frequency of destruction to separate the quarks so by bathing the Gold Pressed Sphere with Anti-Cohesion Rays of the frequency of Tungsten it is possible to turn the internal Tungsten into Quarks, but leave the Gold in tact. Gold is used because of its density, preventing massive numbers of Quarks escaping. The confined space effectively increases pressure to the state at which Strange Matter is formed. This Strange Matter would then eat though the Gold sphere and spawn Stranglets, which would be primed to convert Tungsten, with Gold and other matter being slightly slower to convert. However these experiments will be conducted in space, rather than on a planet. The life of a Stranglet would be limited to no more than a few seconds, meaning that the experiments can take place without posing a serious risk to anyone.

Strange Matter II- Once Strange matter has been created the next significant step will be containment. Since normal matter (Consisting of up or down Quarks) cannot be used it will be required that a lepton is used, and the most readily available lepton is the Electron. Thus a barrier of Electrons must be formed, which will then lead to a compressed state of being which can be processed when and where required.

Valence Theory- A theory which allows the study of the Valence Interactors, the interaction between positive and negative energy and the manipulation thereby within.

[/Hide]

[/Hide]

[Hide=Civic Update]

 

Dominating the System of Free Planets is the discovery that the Russian Planet Asurna has revolted and over a million people have joined an Anti-War League in order to be evacuated from encroaching enemies which are sure to strip the planet clean. Thus 15 transports have been dispatched(1) but not before all being outfitted by 200 laser Micro-Macro Arrays. (2-16)

 

Neptune has been covered by a second layer of water fruit, but due to transport activity only 18 Giga Tonnes have been harvested(27), feeding everyone in the system(28). In order to release transports, incase of a breakdown in universal harmony, construction of four interplanetary freighters has begun(16-20). Also north-south relations have stabilized and by deft negotiation the formation of a Planetary Defense Network has safely increase the planets hostility to the other planets, increase systemwide anger and wasted two civic points, though has provided a stable defense against short and long range attacks for Neptune.(31, 32, 33) As a result of this both Hera and Cybele have increased research into Quark Tech, providing 2 extra research points. (34,35)

 

Hera, Geospheres have been completed, releasing 11 transports back into orbit.(21) Further investigation of the planet has failed to yield results(22) However the continuing power panic has caused a rebel faction to form, resulting in a hostile stand off between two of the geospheres(29) which was eventually resolved with the founding of a Planetary Energy Commission which has developed a radical new technology, the Heat Pad, which extracts Volcanic energy direct from the planet.(30) The Heat pads only work on Hera though, since only it has a high enough core temperature, causing as much anger as rejoicing.

 

Cybele's Hadrian's Ledges have developed significantly and by next year should be able to provide housing for 9 million people.(23,24) The mountain side bridges have been completed, linking all of the Ledges together as well as providing a stable water supply from mountain springs.(25) Investment in a State Capital has aroused much anger on the other settlements, but this has been offset by happiness on Cybele.(26)

 

Asterisk proceeds on course. Fragments from the earlier explosion has caused a meteor shower on Cybele, which was a spectacle which all enjoyed.

 

 

35/35 Civil Project Points used

[/Hide]

 

 

[Hide=Morale]

 

105

-2 Contention from Neptune

103

-3 From racial strife

100

-2 Hostility of Neptune

98

-1 Daily

98

-4 State Capital

94

-3 Heat Pads

91

-1 Sending ships out of system

90

-5 Power panic

85

-2 Mass Armament

83

 

+10 General war build up

93

+2 Dissolution of Russia

95

+3 Geospheres on Hera

98

+1 Second Stage Water-fruit completed

99

+1 Meteor storm on Cybele

100

+2 From the sweet sweet Waterfruit

102

+1 Heat Pads on Hera

103

+8 From Projects(+3 Bridges on Cybele, +3 housing on Cybele, +2 State Capital)

111

+2 From potential new inhabitance from Yggdrasi

113

[/Hide]

 

[Hide=Changes]

None

[/Hide]

[/Hide]

 

 

Summery:

All projects continued.

4 Extra Research points, 2 from civil events and 2 from morale, 2 were spent on uprisings on Earth and Asurna and two were spent on Quark Tungsten extraction and Strange (Quark) Matter.

Started Projects 'Strange (Quark) Matter', 'Strange Matter II', 'Valence Theory'

Finished Projects 'Quark Tungsten Extract', 'Strange (Quark) Matter'

0 Research Points remaining.

0 Civil Project Points remaining

8 Cumulative Project Points remaining.

Moral has had a net increase of 8 to 113

Fleet size:

 

50 Transport Ships

5 Stage 2 Caravels

 

Fleets in Transit:

15 Transports

[Wisp]

Well, bound to happen sometime.

150,000 troops stationed in Norway move south. They have orders not to attack Brittainian troops unless fired upon, but are instead allowing the Russian people to keep their own country, and not be absorbed into any other, atleast not until all the important powers have had their say on Russia. The HISF and HISF interceptor planes docked off of Norwegian territory are ready to go, and can reach my troops within 15 minutes of any issues.

[Grim_]

Indeed, think 1770s Britain. We see a somewhat unheard of power suddenly revolutionize the way the universe works(Industrial Revolution and the Quark Revolution... added to that is the Napoleonic War and the potential war). In the interim though I have a large surplus of food to sell and your alliance has a large surplus of food... thus economically it would be foolish, far better to remain neutral, pick up civilians wherever I can and grow my technology base to one which rivals all others. Followed by a long stretch at the top and finally a sudden decline and then I will join your alliance. =D

Anyway:

Post Script for the Accession of Greater Russian Power:

Greater Russian

 

 

[Hide=Update for Today]

[Hide=Techno Update]

Technology update

In progress:

Heat Pads

1 New Metal- 6/15

3 Standardization of Vessels- 4/5

4 Quantum Rifle- 5/10

9 Gravity Lensing- 2/10

10 Silent Running- 2/3

5 Station outfitting- 1/12

8 Construction of 5 Caravel class- 1/12

6 Heat Resilient Genetic Engineering- 2/23

Quark Tungsten Extract 2/2

Strange (Quark) Matter 1/1

Strange Matter II 0/1

Valence Theory 0/6

 

[/hide]

[Hide=Caravel]

Hull Design 1/1

Micro/Macro Array 3/3

Ion Thrusters 3/3

Gated Torpedos 5/5

7 Transporters 4/8

Nuclear Core 2/2

DOCKING procedure theorized and built in.

[/Hide]

 

[Hide=Explained]

Heat Pads- Civil devices which provide energy, similar to solar panels in efficiency.

Strange (Quark) Matter- Creates Strange Quarks out of Up and Down Quarks by use of high density Tungsten in a fast acting conversion process, within a gold pressed sphere. Each element requiring a different frequency of destruction to separate the quarks so by bathing the Gold Pressed Sphere with Anti-Cohesion Rays of the frequency of Tungsten it is possible to turn the internal Tungsten into Quarks, but leave the Gold in tact. Gold is used because of its density, preventing massive numbers of Quarks escaping. The confined space effectively increases pressure to the state at which Strange Matter is formed. This Strange Matter would then eat though the Gold sphere and spawn Stranglets, which would be primed to convert Tungsten, with Gold and other matter being slightly slower to convert. However these experiments will be conducted in space, rather than on a planet. The life of a Stranglet would be limited to no more than a few seconds, meaning that the experiments can take place without posing a serious risk to anyone.

Strange Matter II- Once Strange matter has been created the next significant step will be containment. Since normal matter (Consisting of up or down Quarks) cannot be used it will be required that a lepton is used, and the most readily available lepton is the Electron. Thus a barrier of Electrons must be formed, which will then lead to a compressed state of being which can be processed when and where required.

Valence Theory- A theory which allows the study of the Valence Interactors, the interaction between positive and negative energy and the manipulation thereby within.

[/Hide]

[/Hide]

 

[Hide=Civic Update]

 

Dominating the System of Free Planets is the discovery that the Russian Planet Asurna has revolted and over a million people have joined an Anti-War League in order to be evacuated from encroaching enemies which are sure to strip the planet clean. Thus 15 transports have been dispatched(1) but not before all being outfitted by 200 laser Micro-Macro Arrays. (2-16)

 

Neptune has been covered by a second layer of water fruit, but due to transport activity only 18 Giga Tonnes have been harvested(27), feeding everyone in the system(28). In order to release transports, incase of a breakdown in universal harmony, construction of four interplanetary freighters has begun(16-20). Also north-south relations have stabilized and by deft negotiation the formation of a Planetary Defense Network has safely increase the planets hostility to the other planets, increase systemwide anger and wasted two civic points, though has provided a stable defense against short and long range attacks for Neptune.(31, 32, 33) As a result of this both Hera and Cybele have increased research into Quark Tech, providing 2 extra research points. (34,35)

 

Hera, Geospheres have been completed, releasing 11 transports back into orbit.(21) Further investigation of the planet has failed to yield results(22) However the continuing power panic has caused a rebel faction to form, resulting in a hostile stand off between two of the geospheres(29) which was eventually resolved with the founding of a Planetary Energy Commission which has developed a radical new technology, the Heat Pad, which extracts Volcanic energy direct from the planet.(30) The Heat pads only work on Hera though, since only it has a high enough core temperature, causing as much anger as rejoicing.

 

Cybele's Hadrian's Ledges have developed significantly and by next year should be able to provide housing for 9 million people.(23,24) The mountain side bridges have been completed, linking all of the Ledges together as well as providing a stable water supply from mountain springs.(25) Investment in a State Capital has aroused much anger on the other settlements, but this has been offset by happiness on Cybele.(26)

 

Asterisk proceeds on course. Fragments from the earlier explosion has caused a meteor shower on Cybele, which was a spectacle which all enjoyed.

 

 

35/35 Civil Project Points used

[Hide]

 

 

[Hide=Morale]

 

105

-2 Contention from Neptune

103

-3 From racial strife

100

-2 Hostility of Neptune

98

-1 Daily

98

-4 State Capital

94

-3 Heat Pads

91

-1 Sending ships out of system

90

-5 Power panic

85

-2 Mass Armament

83

 

+10 General war build up

93

+2 Dissolution of Russia

95

+3 Geospheres on Hera

98

+1 Second Stage Water-fruit completed

99

+1 Meteor storm on Cybele

100

+2 From the sweet sweet Waterfruit

102

+1 Heat Pads on Hera

103

+8 From Projects(+3 Bridges on Cybele, +3 housing on Cybele, +2 State Capital)

111

+2 From potential new inhabitance from Yggdrasi

113

[/Hide]

 

[Hide=Changes]

None

[/Hide]

 

Summery:

All projects continued.

4 Extra Research points, 2 from civil events and 2 from morale, 2 were spent on uprisings on Earth and Asurna and two were spent on Quark Tungsten extraction and Strange (Quark) Matter.

Started Projects 'Strange (Quark) Matter', 'Strange Matter II', 'Valence Theory'

Finished Projects 'Quark Tungsten Extract', 'Strange (Quark) Matter'

0 Research Points remaining.

0 Civil Project Points remaining

8 Cumulative Project Points remaining.

Moral has had a net increase of 8 to 113

Fleet size:

 

50 Transport Ships

5 Stage 2 Caravels

 

Fleets in Transit:

15 Transports

Archimage not to nit pick but there is no way that you can get 50 transport ships. As they cost close to 300 billion each (without mining your own materials) there is no way for you with your non existent gdp and no trading to get that many ships period. Also I am setting up mining rigs in my desert planets. I am setting up an auto pilot of 3 shipyards every 3 years also.

[archimage_a]

On the off chance you think I just created them let me point out that these are the SAME transports as I 'stole' from everyone only a few short years ago.

As I explained at the time it was the quickest, simplest and not to mention most realistic way of getting what I wanted.

I presented other options and no one responded, thus I accepted the facts as I stated them and it is far too late now to quibble over the details. I am happy to return up to 40 of them next year, once I have finished reverse engineering them, for a nominal fee, shall we say 10 Billion Gold Standards for the first four to each nation and 100 Billion Gold Standards after that, or to the highest bidder. I am more than happy to come to alternative arrangements if required so there you are.

 

NB. Transport ships and transports are the same thing.

[Grim_]

On the off chance you think I just created them let me point out that these are the SAME transports as I 'stole' from everyone only a few short years ago.

As I explained at the time it was the quickest, simplest and not to mention most realistic way of getting what I wanted.

I presented other options and no one responded, thus I accepted the facts as I stated them and it is far too late now to quibble over the details. I am happy to return up to 40 of them next year, once I have finished reverse engineering them, for a nominal fee, shall we say 10 Billion Gold Standards for the first four to each nation and 100 Billion Gold Standards after that, or to the highest bidder. I am more than happy to come to alternative arrangements if required so there you are.

 

NB. Transport ships and transports are the same thing.

Okay firstly its a really bad idea to steal ships from every person in the game. It kind of sets your relationship off on the wrong foot. Secondly you couldnt have stolen them from certain people like because we are so spread out. Thirdly I thought you were socialist. Fourthly you start out with almost all of the tech in the ships aside from mine and no you did not steal mine mine are heavily guarded and armed. Fifthly if you tried to take them from ross his icarus drones would slaughter your forces.

[Wisp]

On the off chance you think I just created them let me point out that these are the SAME transports as I 'stole' from everyone only a few short years ago.

As I explained at the time it was the quickest, simplest and not to mention most realistic way of getting what I wanted.

I presented other options and no one responded, thus I accepted the facts as I stated them and it is far too late now to quibble over the details. I am happy to return up to 40 of them next year, once I have finished reverse engineering them, for a nominal fee, shall we say 10 Billion Gold Standards for the first four to each nation and 100 Billion Gold Standards after that, or to the highest bidder. I am more than happy to come to alternative arrangements if required so there you are.

 

NB. Transport ships and transports are the same thing.

Okay firstly its a really bad idea to steal ships from every person in the game. It kind of sets your relationship off on the wrong foot. Secondly you couldnt have stolen them from certain people like because we are so spread out. Thirdly I thought you were socialist. Fourthly you start out with almost all of the tech in the ships aside from mine and no you did not steal mine mine are heavily guarded and armed. Fifthly if you tried to take them from ross his icarus drones would slaughter your forces.

I don't think that many transports even exist, anyway. And it's not like I've ever been involved in a way unless someone attacked me (and that war lasted a good minute, and was 60 years ago), so no one would join your cause from me.