Best programming language...

[The Runar]

A few months ago I asked for the best programming language for beginners, and after a few good suggestions, I chose Python. Now Ḯ've learned the basics of programming, and decided it's time to learn some other programming language.

 

Now I have a few good ideas for games I'm going to create someday (probably not very soon...), and I need a good programming language for them.

 

I'm ready to try pretty much any programming language, but here a few things that are important for me:

 

- Easy porting to other operating systems. I use Linux as my main operating system, but if I'm ever going to release a popular game, I should also create a Windows version and probably a Mac version too.

 

- Must be pretty fast. The ideas I currently have include some CPU-heavy, though rather simple games. However the FPS should stay pretty high (30+) for these games. (I don't think this is a problem with the CPU's nowadays though)

 

- Easy to learn. Of course it doesn't have to be the very easiest one, but I don't want to learn assembly either.

 

- Good 2D graphics support. I don't need 3D graphics, but the 2D graphics must be up to eleven.

 

So, what do you recommend? I myself thought of two different options - C++ or Java, but if you know of something else, please tell me. :)

 

Oh, and if possible, a link to a good (free) tutorial would be nice.

[JoeDaStudd]

Depends how big you want the game and how many options.

C++ is massive as is Java so there are tons of ways you could go about making a 2d game.

 

If you pick C++ I found SDL (Simple Directmedia Layer) nice and easy, ideal for 2d games. This is the set of tutorials I started with.

[Sbrideau]

I'd say C++ as well, you can do a lot of memory management with it as well which is good when you make games(or so I have heard).

[swampjedi]

C++ gives you the power you need, without all of the handholding that C# or Java provide. However, since you're just starting out it might be easier to jump in to C#.

 

Personally, I'd go with C#. The .NET management layer isn't THAT slow - and I imagine you'll be starting off small anyways. You could always redo your engines in something unmanaged later, if you decided to speed it up.

 

Keep in mind that your first few projects are throwaways anyways. Pick what you want to learn, then worry about making something cool.

[The Runar]

Depends how big you want the game and how many options.

C++ is massive as is Java so there are tons of ways you could go about making a 2d game.

 

If you pick C++ I found SDL (Simple Directmedia Layer) nice and easy, ideal for 2d games. This is the set of tutorials I started with.

 

Thanks, I'll check those tutorials. Seems to be just what I was looking for.

 

C++ gives you the power you need, without all of the handholding that C# or Java provide. However, since you're just starting out it might be easier to jump in to C#.

 

Personally, I'd go with C#. The .NET management layer isn't THAT slow - and I imagine you'll be starting off small anyways. You could always redo your engines in something unmanaged later, if you decided to speed it up.

 

Keep in mind that your first few projects are throwaways anyways. Pick what you want to learn, then worry about making something cool.

 

I'm trying to avoid Microsoft products, so I'll choose C++ over C#.

 

And I know that my first few projects won't be so good, and I'm not even trying to make anything really complex (at least yet).

[dsavi]

I would go with actionscript/flash for a 2d game, but getting decent development tools could cost. I don't know about development tools for actionscript/flash actually, but I know that it's used in thousands of 2d games.

[ClareJonsson]

You could give Bennu a look. It's an off shoot of Fenix and is cross platform and pretty much Ideal for 2D games!

[swampjedi]

Fine, no MS products. That's fair.

 

C++ is nice, but you're going to be hard pressed to build something system-independent with it. If you really want to port it EASILY, you'd be silly not to use Java.

 

Realistically, you should learn to walk before you run. C++ is running, and I expect it will be overwhelming.

[sloter]

Since you want more of a cross platform game your going to want something that you don't have to change a bunch of code and rebuilt a bunch of stuff for each platform you plan to have your game on. Something like java or Python would be ideal. You could build it with something such as c/c++ but you would need to use some cross platform libraries. I'd suggest you do some researching as know but you as of right now really knows the circumstances of your game and that will prompt what language should be used. To be up front with you if you really have to come on here and ask a question so broad of what language should you should use well i am led to believe you need to sharpen your skills a bit. Research.

[RSBDavid]

I would do it in Java. The main reason is being it will be cross-platform and it is easy to do.

 

Also, how much programming experience do you have? You can't just learn a new language and create a game like you want right off the bat. You have to get to know the syntax, sub-routines, functionality, how it interacts in various operating systems, multi-threading, and various other methods and skills to make it run smoothly.

 

Follow this link to a wide variety of tutorials relating to 2d Java Programming.

 

Remember, Carpe Google.

[The Runar]

Also, how much programming experience do you have? You can't just learn a new language and create a game like you want right off the bat. You have to get to know the syntax, sub-routines, functionality, how it interacts in various operating systems, multi-threading, and various other methods and skills to make it run smoothly.

 

I know that. However, I want to choose a good programming language for my future projects before I start learning it - I don't want to study something for weeks and then notice it's not what I looked for.

 

And I'm going with C++. I think that the extra time required for learning it and porting the projects will be worth it. I did the same when I tried to make a website - instead of using an easy editor (such as FrontPage Nvu) I decided to learn some HTML and create the site with Notepad. Took me like 5× as long that way, but it was worth it.

 

I found a good C++ basics tutorial myself and I think I'm actually learning something. Too bad I forget things so easily... <_<

[venomai]

I've programmed simple games (2D and 3D) in AS3, Python and Java. I've also tried my hand at C++.

 

C++ is difficult to learn and even more difficult to program with. Having full control over memory management (i.e. no garbage collection) is generally only necessary if you're working on the next Call of Duty or Halo. For a beginner hobbyist game developer, C++ isn't a good choice. It's also a pain to port it cross-platform.

 

Actionscript 3 is a great language for simple 2D/3D games, but it's not nearly as powerful and flexible as Java or Python, and it's mainly suited for non-desktop games. However, it's booming right now with the development of various 3D libraries, such as Alternativa and Away.

 

Python is a great language for fast prototyping and even full-blown 2D/3D games. Check out PyGame (2D) or Panda (3D).

 

Java, on the other hand, is an absolutely fantastic language for hobbyist game developers. It's extremely easy to distribute to any platform. WebStart is a great feature -- most computers already have JRE 1.4+ installed. You can find open source class libraries for just about anything. Check out Slick (2D), jME (3D) or Ardor (3D).

 

Personally, I use Java for larger projects, and Python for smaller projects. If you're already feeling comfortable with Python, I'd suggest you learn Java.

 

Good luck.

[The Runar]

I've programmed simple games (2D and 3D) in AS3, Python and Java. I've also tried my hand at C++.

 

C++ is difficult to learn and even more difficult to program with. Having full control over memory management (i.e. no garbage collection) is generally only necessary if you're working on the next Call of Duty or Halo. For a beginner hobbyist game developer, C++ isn't a good choice. It's also a pain to port it cross-platform.

 

Actionscript 3 is a great language for simple 2D/3D games, but it's not nearly as powerful and flexible as Java or Python, and it's mainly suited for non-desktop games. However, it's booming right now with the development of various 3D libraries, such as Alternativa and Away.

 

Python is a great language for fast prototyping and even full-blown 2D/3D games. Check out PyGame (2D) or Panda (3D).

 

Java, on the other hand, is an absolutely fantastic language for hobbyist game developers. It's extremely easy to distribute to any platform. WebStart is a great feature -- most computers already have JRE 1.4+ installed. You can find open source class libraries for just about anything. Check out Slick (2D), jME (3D) or Ardor (3D).

 

Personally, I use Java for larger projects, and Python for smaller projects. If you're already feeling comfortable with Python, I'd suggest you learn Java.

 

Good luck.

 

I hate having so many options. :wall:

 

Well, I already know a bit of Java too, so I could try it again... hopefully I still remember something. As I said before, my memory is really bad. -.-

[sloter]

Remember, Carpe Google.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

Do not use C++. At your experience level, the effort required to be debugging with pointers is not worth it. They're dangerous and should be avoided. Plus porting is usually hell. Ignore anyone who claims that C++ is so fast and powerful and that you can do anything with it and it's the only language to make games in, there are plenty alternatives and you can get great performance out of other languages.

 

You could try: Java + JOGL, though Java can be an annoying language to program in. It lacks many modern features and its event handling model seems to have been invented by a monkey.

 

My best recommendation would be C# + .NET/Mono + OpenTK. I know you said no Microsoft products, but C# is not a "Microsoft product". It was invented by a Microsoft employee and maintained by them, but it is an Ecma (ECMA-334) and ISO (ISO/IEC 23270) international standard. And Mono is maintained by Novell. OpenTK is 3rd party. And, why hate Microsoft? They may be monopolistic and seem anti-standard at times, but at least they're not as dumb as Sun. And my other computer has Linux on it, just to keep you quiet on anything there.

 

C++ gives you the power you need, without all of the handholding that C# or Java provide. However, since you're just starting out it might be easier to jump in to C#.

 

Personally, I'd go with C#. The .NET management layer isn't THAT slow - and I imagine you'll be starting off small anyways. You could always redo your engines in something unmanaged later, if you decided to speed it up.

 

Keep in mind that your first few projects are throwaways anyways. Pick what you want to learn, then worry about making something cool.

 

C# and Java do not "hold your hand". You can't just magically write huge programs with no effort. Quite frankly, the absence of a few *, & and -> here and there hardly makes any difference (at least to me, some people find pointers difficult). It's basically a syntactical thing. And you will probably make a few more mistakes here and there. Java and C# weren't designed to be goo goo gaga baby nonsense. They were designed to succeed C++ for many purposes because they are more advanced technologies. Having the computer tell you when things are wrong is better than not. We might as well get into a "real man" argument and say that if you write a game in a weak-typed version of C, you're so cool an awesome... no. Use what works best for the job. C# is a modern, elegant language that is well suited for game development and easy to port if the proper libraries are used.

 

And rewriting games in unmanaged languages won't speed them up that much, especially C# to C++. I've read many studies where benchmarks were done and there was hardly a noticeable difference between C# and C++. It really comes down to how well the programmer writes his or her code. Perhaps because you're passing tons of value types around, as opposed to what you'd do in C++... and I have to leave so this post ends abruptly.

[The Runar]

I give up on Java. It's too confusing. I forget stuff faster than I learn it. <_<

 

Now, C++ and C# are two good options...

 

I've tried C++ and so far it's been surprisingly easy. I played with PDCurses for a while (crossplatform things ftw) and it's not too hard either. Well, maybe the hard stuff is just behind the corner. I would really like to use C++, but I'll think about it a bit more. So far it's been great. :thumbup:

 

C# also sounds like an interesting option. I already have MonoDevelop installed, so I could check what it is like.

 

I don't mind experimenting with something new (that's why I'm using Arch Linux - awesome for that purpose), if someone has anything else to say, I would like to hear it. Now I'll check C# out.

[Sbrideau]

C++ is a hell of a lot of learning if you want to do a game with it though. I've had training enough in C++ to tell you that, so be prepared to take over a year to learn what you need to know for a game.

 

Do Flash, it's easier to learn and most of the small 2D games I've seen are on it.

[The Runar]

C++ is a hell of a lot of learning if you want to do a game with it though. I've had training enough in C++ to tell you that, so be prepared to take over a year to learn what you need to know for a game.

 

Do Flash, it's easier to learn and most of the small 2D games I've seen are on it.

 

C++ takes over a year to learn? I usually learn new things very quickly (if I want to, that is...), I don't need anything really advanced, and I have a ton of time to learn it, so I don't think I need that much time. Seriously, I believe I need more time for creating the graphics.

 

I'm going to create downloadable games, and Flash games don't work well for that purpose.

[Sbrideau]

I've started with structured way to program with C++, then OOP, and I still have classes in C++ in college after a year and a half. College may not be the fastest way to learn, but having a teacher to help you sure is a good thing. We still haven't touched the gui with C++ so we're still in cmd and will be doing some in linux next semester.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

I give up on Java. It's too confusing. I forget stuff faster than I learn it. <_<

 

Now, C++ and C# are two good options...

 

I've tried C++ and so far it's been surprisingly easy. I played with PDCurses for a while (crossplatform things ftw) and it's not too hard either. Well, maybe the hard stuff is just behind the corner. I would really like to use C++, but I'll think about it a bit more. So far it's been great. :thumbup:

 

C# also sounds like an interesting option. I already have MonoDevelop installed, so I could check what it is like.

 

I don't mind experimenting with something new (that's why I'm using Arch Linux - awesome for that purpose), if someone has anything else to say, I would like to hear it. Now I'll check C# out.

 

WHAT? You think C++ is easier than Java? I am unable to comprehend that, so I'm sorry, but I can't help you anymore.

 

Most illogical...

Logic circuits overloading...

Entering emergency escape sequence...

FATAL ERROR 0xCAFEBABE

 

There are two Easter eggs in this post. Try and find them.

[sloter]

Do not use C++. At your experience level, the effort required to be debugging with pointers is not worth it. They're dangerous and should be avoided. Plus porting is usually hell. Ignore anyone who claims that C++ is so fast and powerful and that you can do anything with it and it's the only language to make games in, there are plenty alternatives and you can get great performance out of other languages.

 

You could try: Java + JOGL, though Java can be an annoying language to program in. It lacks many modern features and its event handling model seems to have been invented by a monkey.

 

My best recommendation would be C# + .NET/Mono + OpenTK. I know you said no Microsoft products, but C# is not a "Microsoft product". It was invented by a Microsoft employee and maintained by them, but it is an Ecma (ECMA-334) and ISO (ISO/IEC 23270) international standard. And Mono is maintained by Novell. OpenTK is 3rd party. And, why hate Microsoft? They may be monopolistic and seem anti-standard at times, but at least they're not as dumb as Sun. And my other computer has Linux on it, just to keep you quiet on anything there.

 

C++ gives you the power you need' date=' without all of the handholding that C# or Java provide. However, since you're just starting out it might be easier to jump in to C#.

 

Personally, I'd go with C#. The .NET management layer isn't THAT slow - and I imagine you'll be starting off small anyways. You could always redo your engines in something unmanaged later, if you decided to speed it up.

 

Keep in mind that your first few projects are throwaways anyways. Pick what you want to learn, then worry about making something cool.[/quote']

 

C# and Java do not "hold your hand". You can't just magically write huge programs with no effort. Quite frankly, the absence of a few *, & and -> here and there hardly makes any difference (at least to me, some people find pointers difficult). It's basically a syntactical thing. And you will probably make a few more mistakes here and there. Java and C# weren't designed to be goo goo gaga baby nonsense. They were designed to succeed C++ for many purposes because they are more advanced technologies. Having the computer tell you when things are wrong is better than not. We might as well get into a "real man" argument and say that if you write a game in a weak-typed version of C, you're so cool an awesome... no. Use what works best for the job. C# is a modern, elegant language that is well suited for game development and easy to port if the proper libraries are used.

 

And rewriting games in unmanaged languages won't speed them up that much, especially C# to C++. I've read many studies where benchmarks were done and there was hardly a noticeable difference between C# and C++. It really comes down to how well the programmer writes his or her code. Perhaps because you're passing tons of value types around, as opposed to what you'd do in C++... and I have to leave so this post ends abruptly.

 

Read the OP he wants cross platform. C#, is MS based. I suggest you do some research before you try to act like a big dog.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

Do not use C++. At your experience level, the effort required to be debugging with pointers is not worth it. They're dangerous and should be avoided. Plus porting is usually hell. Ignore anyone who claims that C++ is so fast and powerful and that you can do anything with it and it's the only language to make games in, there are plenty alternatives and you can get great performance out of other languages.

 

You could try: Java + JOGL, though Java can be an annoying language to program in. It lacks many modern features and its event handling model seems to have been invented by a monkey.

 

My best recommendation would be C# + .NET/Mono + OpenTK. I know you said no Microsoft products, but C# is not a "Microsoft product". It was invented by a Microsoft employee and maintained by them, but it is an Ecma (ECMA-334) and ISO (ISO/IEC 23270) international standard. And Mono is maintained by Novell. OpenTK is 3rd party. And, why hate Microsoft? They may be monopolistic and seem anti-standard at times, but at least they're not as dumb as Sun. And my other computer has Linux on it, just to keep you quiet on anything there.

 

C++ gives you the power you need, without all of the handholding that C# or Java provide. However, since you're just starting out it might be easier to jump in to C#.

 

Personally, I'd go with C#. The .NET management layer isn't THAT slow - and I imagine you'll be starting off small anyways. You could always redo your engines in something unmanaged later, if you decided to speed it up.

 

Keep in mind that your first few projects are throwaways anyways. Pick what you want to learn, then worry about making something cool.

 

C# and Java do not "hold your hand". You can't just magically write huge programs with no effort. Quite frankly, the absence of a few *, & and -> here and there hardly makes any difference (at least to me, some people find pointers difficult). It's basically a syntactical thing. And you will probably make a few more mistakes here and there. Java and C# weren't designed to be goo goo gaga baby nonsense. They were designed to succeed C++ for many purposes because they are more advanced technologies. Having the computer tell you when things are wrong is better than not. We might as well get into a "real man" argument and say that if you write a game in a weak-typed version of C, you're so cool an awesome... no. Use what works best for the job. C# is a modern, elegant language that is well suited for game development and easy to port if the proper libraries are used.

 

And rewriting games in unmanaged languages won't speed them up that much, especially C# to C++. I've read many studies where benchmarks were done and there was hardly a noticeable difference between C# and C++. It really comes down to how well the programmer writes his or her code. Perhaps because you're passing tons of value types around, as opposed to what you'd do in C++... and I have to leave so this post ends abruptly.

 

Read the OP he wants cross platform. C#, is MS based. I suggest you do some research before you try to act like a big dog.

 

C# most certainly is NOT MS based. It is a language. You mean to say that .NET is MS based, and I suggest YOU do some research before trying to correct those more experienced than yourself whom you assume to be acting like "big dogs"... http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

[The Runar]

WHAT? You think C++ is easier than Java? I am unable to comprehend that, so I'm sorry, but I can't help you anymore.

 

Most illogical...

Logic circuits overloading...

Entering emergency escape sequence...

FATAL ERROR 0xCAFEBABE

 

There are two Easter eggs in this post. Try and find them.

 

It's because of easier tutorials and shorter commands - cout << "Hello World" is easier to remember than System.out.println("Hello World").

 

I also still haven't managed to use external libraries in Java, while in C++ it is no problem.

[Sbrideau]

Do not use C++. At your experience level, the effort required to be debugging with pointers is not worth it. They're dangerous and should be avoided. Plus porting is usually hell. Ignore anyone who claims that C++ is so fast and powerful and that you can do anything with it and it's the only language to make games in, there are plenty alternatives and you can get great performance out of other languages.

 

You could try: Java + JOGL, though Java can be an annoying language to program in. It lacks many modern features and its event handling model seems to have been invented by a monkey.

 

My best recommendation would be C# + .NET/Mono + OpenTK. I know you said no Microsoft products, but C# is not a "Microsoft product". It was invented by a Microsoft employee and maintained by them, but it is an Ecma (ECMA-334) and ISO (ISO/IEC 23270) international standard. And Mono is maintained by Novell. OpenTK is 3rd party. And, why hate Microsoft? They may be monopolistic and seem anti-standard at times, but at least they're not as dumb as Sun. And my other computer has Linux on it, just to keep you quiet on anything there.

 

C++ gives you the power you need, without all of the handholding that C# or Java provide. However, since you're just starting out it might be easier to jump in to C#.

 

Personally, I'd go with C#. The .NET management layer isn't THAT slow - and I imagine you'll be starting off small anyways. You could always redo your engines in something unmanaged later, if you decided to speed it up.

 

Keep in mind that your first few projects are throwaways anyways. Pick what you want to learn, then worry about making something cool.

 

C# and Java do not "hold your hand". You can't just magically write huge programs with no effort. Quite frankly, the absence of a few *, & and -> here and there hardly makes any difference (at least to me, some people find pointers difficult). It's basically a syntactical thing. And you will probably make a few more mistakes here and there. Java and C# weren't designed to be goo goo gaga baby nonsense. They were designed to succeed C++ for many purposes because they are more advanced technologies. Having the computer tell you when things are wrong is better than not. We might as well get into a "real man" argument and say that if you write a game in a weak-typed version of C, you're so cool an awesome... no. Use what works best for the job. C# is a modern, elegant language that is well suited for game development and easy to port if the proper libraries are used.

 

And rewriting games in unmanaged languages won't speed them up that much, especially C# to C++. I've read many studies where benchmarks were done and there was hardly a noticeable difference between C# and C++. It really comes down to how well the programmer writes his or her code. Perhaps because you're passing tons of value types around, as opposed to what you'd do in C++... and I have to leave so this post ends abruptly.

 

Read the OP he wants cross platform. C#, is MS based. I suggest you do some research before you try to act like a big dog.

 

C# most certainly is NOT MS based. It is a language. You mean to say that .NET is MS based, and I suggest YOU do some research before trying to correct those more experienced than yourself whom you assume to be acting like "big dogs"... http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

 

I believe sloter is more experienced and competent than you. Also the page you referred to is just a .Net adaptation for Linux, which means it's still MS.

[dsavi]

C# most certainly is NOT MS based. It is a language. You mean to say that .NET is MS based, and I suggest YOU do some research before trying to correct those more experienced than yourself whom you assume to be acting like "big dogs"... http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

C# is as "MS based" as Java is "Sun based". MS defines the C# standard, and the Mono project developers make an open source virtual machine that implements the C# standard. There may be an open source alternative (And a very good one at that) but when it's all over, it's MS that's deciding what happens with the language.