Falklands Dispute

[The Dark Lord]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8544634.stm

 

The US is ready to help Britain and Argentina resolve their dispute over the Falkland Islands, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said.

 

Argentina claims sovereignty over the Falklands, which it calls the Malvinas.

 

It has been angered by the UK's decision to begin drilling for oil under a seabed off the islands.

 

Mrs Clinton said the row should be resolved between the two, but "if we can be of any help in facilitating such an effort, we stand ready to do so".

 

Ms Clinton spoke before she met Argentine President Cristina Fernandez as part of a tour of Latin America.

 

She is also due to visit Chile - reeling from a massive earthquake which killed more than 700 people - Brazil, Costa Rica and Guatemala.

 

The AP news agency reported that at the meeting, Argentina asked for US help in resolving the dispute.

 

"What we have requested is mediation as a friendly country of both Argentina and the United Kingdom," it quoted Ms Fernandez as saying.

 

After the meeting, Mrs Clinton agreed on the need for talks but did not spell out what the US role might be.

 

"We would like to see Argentina and the UK sit down and resolve the issues between them in a peaceful and productive way," she said.

 

"We cannot make either one do so."

 

Diplomatic offensive

 

Argentine Foreign Minister Jorge Taiana last week claimed that by drilling in the disputed waters, Britain was a committing a unilateral act contrary to international law.

 

He asked United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon to bring the UK into talks over the sovereignty of the islands.

 

The UK government says the islands have a "legitimate right" to develop an oil industry within their waters.

 

Britain has exercised sovereignty in the Falklands since 1833. The islanders are almost all of British descent.

 

Argentina says it has a right to the islands because it inherited them from the Spanish crown in the early 1800s.

 

It invaded the islands in 1982, prompting the UK to seize back control in a seven-week war that claimed the lives of 649 Argentine and 255 British service personnel.

 

The current Argentine government has ruled out any military action over the islands, but is stepping up a diplomatic offensive to try to pressure London into negotiations.

 

Argentina claims that it won't start up another war, but could this dispute end up with Argentina trying to take over the Falkland Islands, like they did in the 80s?

 

 

The US has vowed to help the United Kingdom in this dispute, although the role isn't entirely clear.

 

What are your views about the Falklands? Should they remain as a territory of Britain? Should Argentina get the Falkland Islands back? Most importantly, do you think that there will be another war?

[Giordano]

No there won't be another war. The current President is stupider than hell and all the politicians are too corrupt and have thier own affairs with each other than to conduct a war.

 

Besides the times are different. In the 1970s-1980s Argentina was ruled by militants and needed a quick "victory" to gain support and morale. Currently there's no real point for it now. If there WAS a war, I pray to God Britian doesn't go overboard because it WILL be the government's idea and not of the people.

 

Until Argentina can get it's act together, the Falklands shouldn't be touched.

[Faux]

Argentina will get its [cabbage] pushed in

[obfuscator]

They should just stay British, although it does seem unfair that Argentina inherited them and can't have them..

[Danqazmlp]

The only reason Argentina want them is for money. Almost all the inhabitants are British or of British descent and have been for years. The dispute has only started since Britain decided to mine the oil rich seas around the islands. Argentina want the money, not the islands.

 

Britain will not initiate a war I know that for a fact, but if Argentina decide to invade again, I would fully support our troops taking back the island for a second time.

 

I will say again, Argentina just want the money.

 

It's like selling a friend an old watch you think is worthless, then he finds out it is worth millions and demanding that you get it back, it just is not going to happen.

 

If pushed we will fight them yet again.

[Saru Inc]

Well, if the British islands are of mainly British descent, then it should be the British who are able to drill. However, I suspect that it will mostly turn out to be the kind of thing where in the end, the British give the Argentinians a bit of money that they get from the drilling.

[Rainy_Day]

The only reason Argentina want them is for money. Almost all the inhabitants are British or of British descent and have been for years. The dispute has only started since Britain decided to mine the oil rich seas around the islands. Argentina want the money, not the islands.

 

Britain will not initiate a war I know that for a fact, but if Argentina decide to invade again, I would fully support our troops taking back the island for a second time.

 

I will say again, Argentina just want the money.

 

It's like selling a friend an old watch you think is worthless, then he finds out it is worth millions and demanding that you get it back, it just is not going to happen.

 

If pushed we will fight them yet again.

This pretty much. If a war is triggered, it will have been Argentina who start it. We regained it once already, we can easily do it again.

 

Not too sure why the Argentinians went to the US, since they have no bearing on the dispute. I believe they've also spoken to the UN about the matter. The fact remains that it remains land that we have a right to drill, they are simply demanding it back for money, and to be honest I highly doubt we are going to give in to any idle threats from the coutry.

[SeanyTheSailor]

In my opinion it all comes down to this. Britain will probably get it and if Argentina tries to do anything about it they'll get bent over just like last time.

[Dizzle229]

If Argentina decides to make the first move and fire on the Brits, they'll have more than just UK and US forces to deal with. All of NATO gets involved in that case. So all in all, Argentina will sit there making empty threats like a pouty child.

 

Though if they do make a move, the UK will probably have it under control before anyone else can respond.

[1_man_army]

It won't start another war because Argentina don't have a military capable of winning. Their navy hasn't seen active action for years (probably since the Falklands war) while the UK navy has had a decent amount of practice, is still relatively strong and isn't too engaged in Afghanistan.

 

That being said, I don't see what right the UK has to own an island that is 13,000km from its shores, it's a really imperialistic attitude to state that they are ours. Now I understand the people support staying under the UK that would be because 70% of the islands population descend from the UK. To say that Argentina want the islands just for the newly discovered is incorrect, they have consistantly claimed sovereignty of the islands since the British return in 1833 but I can't see the UK government giving them back now because of the oil discovery. To end the UK owning the islands is the equivalent to Argentina owning the Isle of Man and filling it with Argentines.

[Pirate_Felix]

Lets hope Iraq is the last war ever,

[Romy]

Lets hope Iraq is the last war ever,

 

I wouldn't count on that... Human nature and all that crap...

[Danqazmlp]

It won't start another war because Argentina don't have a military capable of winning. Their navy hasn't seen active action for years (probably since the Falklands war) while the UK navy has had a decent amount of practice, is still relatively strong and isn't too engaged in Afghanistan.

 

That being said, I don't see what right the UK has to own an island that is 13,000km from its shores, it's a really imperialistic attitude to state that they are ours. Now I understand the people support staying under the UK that would be because 70% of the islands population descend from the UK. To say that Argentina want the islands just for the newly discovered is incorrect, they have consistantly claimed sovereignty of the islands since the British return in 1833 but I can't see the UK government giving them back now because of the oil discovery. To end the UK owning the islands is the equivalent to Argentina owning the Isle of Man and filling it with Argentines.

 

But what right does Argentina have to it? They have no historical rights to it, they have no people rights to it (being that the population is mainly British). The only right they have to it is the proximity to the islands, which are not exactly close.

 

Spain and England had claims to sovereignty of the islands. Spain left the islands uninhabited and withdrew from the islands leaving England with the rule there. Argentina then gained its independence and then claimed they owned the islands. They have basically no rights to it.

[fakeitormakeit2]

I think the Argentinians just want the islands for money. The "nice" thing to do would be to give the islands back and in return Argentina grants Britain a percentage of oil profit. However, if all land disputes were resolved by just ceding land to a country who claimed it first, then technically Italy should be ruling from Ireland to Syria, the US should come under Indian command, the reasons why Middle Eastern people are dissatisfied with Israel, etc. Displacing others for land because you claim you once had it is not a legitimate reason to seize it because then you just displace the people who live there.

 

The islands are obviously under British dominion. If push comes to shove, couldn't the current inhabitants just take a vote of self-determination to affirm that the islands are indeed British?

 

And granting the islands there own sovereignty is completely out of the question. The continuing increase of independent small nations is what leads to unstable governments and global disunion.

[Danqazmlp]

The islanders have already said that they want to be British.

 

http://en.mercopress.com/2009/03/30/falkland-islands-government-we-wish-to-remain-british

[Napalm]

Argentine here. As it has been mentioned before, it would basically be a one sided war, if it were to be declared, since the Argentine military is practically nonexistent.

The that led to the war went like this:

-We inherited them

-Lots of other stuffs which I don't know about, skipping to 1970:

-We had a military goverment which, among other things, is belivieved to have kidnapped, tortured and killed 30,000 people

-Military goverment sees it's downfall, and in a last attempt to (re?)gain some popularity, declares war on Britain

-Buys all the media and convinces everyone we are winning this war, everyone is happy.

-People realize we are actually losing, people gets mad, we lose the war, dictatorship ends, etc. etc.

-Everyone complains about the Falklands (Malvinas) being claimed by the British, but nobody does anything.

 

Truth is, although nobody wanted that war, by fighting and losing it, we also lost the Falklands, and seeing as most of the population there is British, and is happy being so, and they don't want to be seen as a part of Argentina, I say let the British keep them.

 

Although one thing that I'm really against is that England is also claiming the 150 (or something like that?) sea miles arround the isles, which also takes from Argentina's territorial waters, but there's nothing much to do to that.

[Danqazmlp]

Argentine here. As it has been mentioned before, it would basically be a one sided war, if it were to be declared, since the Argentine military is practically nonexistent.

The that led to the war went like this:

-We inherited them

-We had a military goverment which, among other things, is belivieved to have kidnapped, tortured and killed 30,000 people

-Military goverment sees it's downfall, and in a last attempt to (re?)gain some popularity, declares war on Britain

-Buys all the media and convinces everyone we are winning this war, everyone is happy.

-People realize we are actually losing, people gets mad, we lose the war, dictatorship ends, etc. etc.

-Everyone complains about the Falklands (Malvinas) being claimed by the British, but nobody does anything.

 

Truth is, although nobody wanted that war, by fighting and losing it, we also lost the Falklands, and seeing as most of the population there is British, and is happy being so, and they don't want to be seen as a part of Argentina, I say let the British keep them.

 

Although one thing that I'm really against is that England is also claiming the 150 (or something like that?) sea miles arround the isles, which also takes from Argentina's territorial waters, but there's nothing much to do to that.

 

It is nice to see the view from an Argentine and I hope I have not come across too rash in what I have said above.

 

Another reason I think stopping the islands from changing hands would be the physical process of doing so. All of the residents would have to either be forcibly removed from their homes, or suddenly be forced to live in a foreign country which would mean visas and citizenship etc if they wanted to stay in thier homes. (at least I think they would?). This in turn would probably get the attention of the wider media again putting support on them switching back to British hands.

[1_man_army]

It won't start another war because Argentina don't have a military capable of winning. Their navy hasn't seen active action for years (probably since the Falklands war) while the UK navy has had a decent amount of practice, is still relatively strong and isn't too engaged in Afghanistan.

 

That being said, I don't see what right the UK has to own an island that is 13,000km from its shores, it's a really imperialistic attitude to state that they are ours. Now I understand the people support staying under the UK that would be because 70% of the islands population descend from the UK. To say that Argentina want the islands just for the newly discovered is incorrect, they have consistantly claimed sovereignty of the islands since the British return in 1833 but I can't see the UK government giving them back now because of the oil discovery. To end the UK owning the islands is the equivalent to Argentina owning the Isle of Man and filling it with Argentines.

 

But what right does Argentina have to it? They have no historical rights to it, they have no people rights to it (being that the population is mainly British). The only right they have to it is the proximity to the islands, which are not exactly close.

 

Spain and England had claims to sovereignty of the islands. Spain left the islands uninhabited and withdrew from the islands leaving England with the rule there. Argentina then gained its independence and then claimed they owned the islands. They have basically no rights to it.

 

I didn't say they should be Argentine, please don't put words in my mouth - the Isle of Man analogy was to illustrate a point. I'm understanding of the Argentine position but not entirely in favour. However, if the British claim to the Falklands is that we took them (for the 2nd time) in 1833 and that the population are British descendants then we should take huge portions of the old empire. I concede the fact that the islanders voted to stay British, that was always going to be the outcome because they are British - they are essentially colonists but that can't be helped now, it's too late to change that. I don't advocate forcing those people to move at all as it would be impractical and immoral.

 

My main point is that no nation should have the right to control territories that are thousands of miles from their shores, that sort of policy and attitude was supposed to have died many decades ago, so much for living in a post-colonial age. Unfortunately I see the practicalities and the morality of the issue as being very different in this issue for me.

[Danqazmlp]

Well The Falklands have their own government so in effect they rule themselves, they are just classed as a British island. A way of putting it is saying that they are an incredibly strong ally to the UK. to be honest the government system is one i don't fully understand, but I know they have a large amount of control over themselves. I see no problem if the population of an island wants to be declared part of another country, why they should not be allowed to do so.

 

Also, I never said anybody should be Argentine, I'm confused as to what words I am supposed to have put in your mouth.

[1_man_army]

I thought you were implying that I said they should be Argentine (since you asked 'what claim does Argentina have?'). Sorry if I've misunserstood. Maybe I jumped the gun a bit.