Should Jagex start beta testing with players?

[howbadisbad]

Uhhh what? Like make a world for beta testing? (ex world 171 is beta test world and doesn't affect your account) pointless imo. You might aswell just release it and then take forever to patch it. (what jagex currently does.)

So what makes you think anything will change by using small sections of players as beta testers? By your accounts nothing or very little will be done anyway. Back to square one. Why do you need xp/items or whatever when testing, unless you're trying to get some advantage by doing it?Beta tester: hey dungeoneering seems a lot like a minigame, what gives? *now Jagex fixes* :thumbup:

 

It's not a rumor if it's leaked for starters. And while greed and manipulation can mess up the ge for a little while before it is released, the same thing will happen on the day of release so your point is stupid. While ge prices only last a little while, bad updates can last anywhere from months to years to get patched, knowing Jagex.

If you're going to debate properly, at least do me the courtesy of acting like a grown up and watching your manners. Its leaks that start the rumors, rumor spreads and that leads to the not so nice things previously discussed. On the day of release we should all be on a level playing field, which avoids clans/ players manipulating prices weeks/months in advance. Again I point out that you state that Jagex do not act quickly enough to patch things, so that includes more delays for releases, so we're back to square one. Jagex can't win in the end because if they took the extra time to do any form of player testing the delays just cause players to whinge too. Leaks don't start rumors because if the thing is leaked then people already know what it is and the only "rumors" are more like speculation and what players want from the update.If it is leaked it is also on a level playing field since leaking would mean that the information to be kept secret becomes available to everyone. I would rather have a complete update than a half completed one. Jagex has stated many times that they aren't in it for the money they just want the game to be the best it can be, so why not do beta testing even if it uses more time and money, they have stated their ultimate goal and it is time for them to act like it is a goal.

 

Forgiving them training skills? What the hell are you talking about? The agility update was AWESOME. Who doesn't want to run longer and have better weight reducing gear?

I guess some people do want it easy then. No it just makes it a lot more practical.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

-But why is it okay for us to find things after they have already been implemented into the permanent game world? If we had test worlds, it would be really similar to the way things are right now, except bugs would stand a much lower chance of losing somebody's items or giving someone an unfair ammt of exp.

Everything has its own risks. Even with all the testing in the world you'll still have some that slip through the net.

 

 

 

And wouldnt it be better for SOME to slip through than for ALL to slip through?

 

If you can make something better, without making anything else worse, then why not implement?

[strilmus]

Just a small thing, but there's gotta be a better way than having Jagex continue to make things that are not used because

 

nobody wants it because it's worthless

 

nobody uses it because it doesn't do anything useful

 

the people who do want it can't get it because the means is very unrelated to their particular style of gameplay

 

or the people who do have the means to get it don't want it.

 

It's almost like that riddle, except instead of a clever answer, it results in unused content and wasted time.

 

As if somebody at Jagex is trying as hard as possible to make the most useless things ever because that was their company's motto or something.

 

"The less anybody cares about it, the cooler we think it is!"

 

Or maybe

 

"What our customers want, we strive to make utterly pointless and undesirable."

 

Even

 

"Create everything according to random ideas that we keep coming up with that have nothing to do with actual players."

 

I apologize for the sarcasm.

[Guest jrhairychest]

So what makes you think anything will change by using small sections of players as beta testers? By your accounts nothing or very little will be done anyway. Back to square one. Why do you need xp/items or whatever when testing, unless you're trying to get some advantage by doing it?Beta tester: hey dungeoneering seems a lot like a minigame, what gives? *now Jagex fixes* :thumbup:

 

This can be done with beta testing worlds, rather than small clumps of individuals. Any chance you can answer my question please?

 

 

Leaks don't start rumors because if the thing is leaked then people already know what it is and the only "rumors" are more like speculation and what players want from the update.If it is leaked it is also on a level playing field since leaking would mean that the information to be kept secret becomes available to everyone. I would rather have a complete update than a half completed one. Jagex has stated many times that they aren't in it for the money they just want the game to be the best it can be, so why not do beta testing even if it uses more time and money, they have stated their ultimate goal and it is time for them to act like it is a goal.[/color]

So let me get this straight. You're unhappy with all players involved in beta testing? If Jagex state 'we have added some new worlds (put numbers here) and we'd like as many players as possible to test (put whatever you want here), you'd disagree with this?

 

I guess some people do want it easy then. No it just makes it a lot more practical.

Shame that. The time invested in crappy updates such as that could be used better in other areas. Fixing dungeoneering perhaps as they could spend their time better?

 

 

 

And wouldnt it be better for SOME to slip through than for ALL to slip through?

 

If you can make something better, without making anything else worse, then why not implement?

 

What makes you think it will be better? No guarantees, possible increases in price manipulation and possible increased subscription fee to cover the costs. Just so I'm sure, you're against worlds being set up for all players to beta test new things, rather than trying to regulate a select group of players?

[Myweponsg00d]

What makes you think it will be better? No guarantees, possible increases in price manipulation and possible increased subscription fee to cover the costs. Just so I'm sure, you're against worlds being set up for all players to beta test new things, rather than trying to regulate a select group of players?

 

The system I am favoring would be worlds that you can just log into if you have a members account. I don't know what the specific details would be (how much of the world is acessible? is it JUST the update content?) but I would want them to be acessible to the general population (of members).

 

For people who didn't want to play the test world, there would also be a list (like "patch notes") that clearly explains all the game features that are currently being tested. That way you could be updated on future content without having to play the world yourself or relying on word of mouth.

 

I'm just saying that I could see this system catching MORE bad things (all bad things? no.) before they might be implemented live and hurt the game.

 

^ basically that is the only argument I have FOR the test world system. The reason I support it though, is that I just CANT think of why it might be a bad thing. So I have one "good thing" about it and no "bad things" so therefore I support the idea.

[Guest jrhairychest]

What makes you think it will be better? No guarantees, possible increases in price manipulation and possible increased subscription fee to cover the costs. Just so I'm sure, you're against worlds being set up for all players to beta test new things, rather than trying to regulate a select group of players?

 

The system I am favoring would be worlds that you can just log into if you have a members account. I don't know what the specific details would be (how much of the world is acessible? is it JUST the update content?) but I would want them to be acessible to the general population (of members).

 

For people who didn't want to play the test world, there would also be a list (like "patch notes") that clearly explains all the game features that are currently being tested. That way you could be updated on future content without having to play the world yourself or relying on word of mouth.

 

I'm just saying that I could see this system catching MORE bad things (all bad things? no.) before they might be implemented live and hurt the game.

 

^ basically that is the only argument I have FOR the test world system. The reason I support it though, is that I just CANT think of why it might be a bad thing. So I have one "good thing" about it and no "bad things" so therefore I support the idea.

 

I've stated before for the sake of debate I would go along with the possibilty of testing worlds rather than selecting players so that all players get that opportunity for the reasons I've listed previously. Judging by your answer we are agreed on this issue.

[howbadisbad]

So what makes you think anything will change by using small sections of players as beta testers? By your accounts nothing or very little will be done anyway. Back to square one. Why do you need xp/items or whatever when testing, unless you're trying to get some advantage by doing it?Beta tester: hey dungeoneering seems a lot like a minigame, what gives? *now Jagex fixes* :thumbup:

 

This can be done with beta testing worlds, rather than small clumps of individuals. Any chance you can answer my question please? If you are asking what the difference between small groups of experienced players and a bunch of random people it is probably the fact that small groups have a much less chance of leaking (Jagex's pet peeve?) and the rest is stated below (beta world = regular release) also with beta worlds you will get alot of noobs who have no idea what they are talking about trying to judge the update. (like right now if someone said range was overpowered that is the kind of stuff you would get from beta worlds)

 

 

Leaks don't start rumors because if the thing is leaked then people already know what it is and the only "rumors" are more like speculation and what players want from the update.If it is leaked it is also on a level playing field since leaking would mean that the information to be kept secret becomes available to everyone. I would rather have a complete update than a half completed one. Jagex has stated many times that they aren't in it for the money they just want the game to be the best it can be, so why not do beta testing even if it uses more time and money, they have stated their ultimate goal and it is time for them to act like it is a goal.[/color]

So let me get this straight. You're unhappy with all players involved in beta testing? If Jagex state 'we have added some new worlds (put numbers here) and we'd like as many players as possible to test (put whatever you want here), you'd disagree with this? How am I unhappy with all players in beta testing? Where did you get that assumption from? I am merely stating that opening up a "beta world" is almost the exact same thing as releasing it into the real game.

 

I guess some people do want it easy then. No it just makes it a lot more practical.

Shame that. The time invested in crappy updates such as that could be used better in other areas. Fixing dungeoneering perhaps as they could spend their time better? Well since the agil update came out before dung no, but I get the gist of what you are saying. Personally I would compare the times to implement them. If dung would take tons of time to fix you might as well put in agility as long as it doesn't take long to implement.

 

 

 

And wouldnt it be better for SOME to slip through than for ALL to slip through?

 

If you can make something better, without making anything else worse, then why not implement? <-- this, but first take care of things that need fixing.

 

What makes you think it will be better? No guarantees, possible increases in price manipulation and possible increased subscription fee to cover the costs. Just so I'm sure, you're against worlds being set up for all players to beta test new things, rather than trying to regulate a select group of players? Adding a world for testing wouldn't rise up costs and what they lose in cash for beta testing should be made up in the steady stream of new members due to good updates.

[Barihawk]

Public beta testing is a failure and essentially boils down to people downloading it simply to play it as if it were a demo.

You apparently have no idea what real beta testing is..

 

Been beta testing `game maker´ very much (game maker is a "game development IDE + programming language"). And during the beta test (All test together took half a year) over 1000 bugs were found and fixed.. And only about 50-100 people were actively reporting issues..

 

 

However I do share jagex concerns with "impractically in runescape". Only thing they could do is: you can sign up for a beta, and during that beta your can't use the "old version" anymore (and your gains would be wiped at the end of the beta).

 

There is a massive difference between software that a very small population is trained with and understands/desires as opposed to a videogame itself. Every major MMO game with an open styled beta has been plagued with users coming and and assuming that it's a final product and therefore complaining everywhere they can. Most recent example is Star Trek Online, has happened in several other communities. A small population tests while the majority just play. Arenanet has even announced that it will not have an open beta for Guild Wars 2 for this very reason.

 

Closed betas by invite/application? Works well. Open for all? No sir.

[re4p3r1]

i thought mods were beta testers for all things new and upcoming??

[michel555555]

As the mod said, beta testers are pointless for games that usually only do small but rapid updates. Sure they might be able to adjust some content, like the activity feeling of dungeoneering, but as for actualy stopping bugs? Most of the beta testers would just be interested in trying out the new content and play as they would every day. This might get rid of some bugs but alot of bugs occur in unexpected situations. The pvp risk glitch where you could have items stored into a familiar and then log into a f2p world and safly risk cash for one.

 

And i don't know if anyone els remembers one of the old QA interviews where they shared with us how they work. Each QA member gets a list of items to wear like mime mask with canfis body, with guthan's, with a godsord, ect. for every item in runescape. I can't remember if there were any other interviews that foccused on activities but i remember reading that if a major bug is found that they never considered before it gets added to the list to make sure that never happens again. This stops most bugs that normally happen.

 

And not to mention the effect it would have on the ecoonomy as other people have said. If they beta test it might be weeks before the update is released as changes are made. Durring that time hoarders and merchants would grab up every single item related to that update that they could. It would take even longer for normal players to get certain items. Unlike how the market works today with only relativly short booms and busts after updates.

 

And how will the beta testers be chosen? only high levels? skillers? pkers? each play the game differently and would like or dislike an update based on how they play. Whats better, having 1000 high levels test out a medium or low level quest or area and say that its to noob ect. when it is meant for lower levels. Or having the entire runescape population try out an update at once and get a more balanced view?

[Grimy_Bunyip]

As the mod said, beta testers are pointless for games that usually only do small but rapid updates. Sure they might be able to adjust some content, like the activity feeling of dungeoneering, but as for actualy stopping bugs? Most of the beta testers would just be interested in trying out the new content and play as they would every day. This might get rid of some bugs but alot of bugs occur in unexpected situations. The pvp risk glitch where you could have items stored into a familiar and then log into a f2p world and safly risk cash for one.

 

And i don't know if anyone els remembers one of the old QA interviews where they shared with us how they work. Each QA member gets a list of items to wear like mime mask with canfis body, with guthan's, with a godsord, ect. for every item in runescape. I can't remember if there were any other interviews that foccused on activities but i remember reading that if a major bug is found that they never considered before it gets added to the list to make sure that never happens again. This stops most bugs that normally happen.

 

And not to mention the effect it would have on the ecoonomy as other people have said. If they beta test it might be weeks before the update is released as changes are made. Durring that time hoarders and merchants would grab up every single item related to that update that they could. It would take even longer for normal players to get certain items. Unlike how the market works today with only relativly short booms and busts after updates.

 

And how will the beta testers be chosen? only high levels? skillers? pkers? each play the game differently and would like or dislike an update based on how they play. Whats better, having 1000 high levels test out a medium or low level quest or area and say that its to noob ect. when it is meant for lower levels. Or having the entire runescape population try out an update at once and get a more balanced view?

what about graphical clipping glitches?

based on a blog jagex previously released, alot of the QA time is spent making sure that armor and weapons don't clip with each other when different combinations of them are equipped.

the reason jagex was able to release dungeoneering with so many items, is the fact that you cannot take dungenoeering items out of daemonheim (legally)

apparently skillcapes clip horribly with dungeoneering armor.

thus this saved the QA team the effort of checking what dungeoneering gear clipped with.

 

surely jagex could let the players handle something like this?

Most armor/weapons won't provide much insight into future updates. Looking a primal 2H sword won't tell me that the new skill is dunegoneering.

just have a random event where a player is asked to equip a random combination of items they were already wearing, and new armor/weapon models

then report whether they see a glitch or not, and let the player go back on their merry way with an XP lamp