Is there evil?

[Lionheart_0]

There is an objective reality. So it doesn't matter one twit how anyone's perception of reality is colored by beliefs, morals, etc. When a tree falls in the woods, whether anyone or anything is there to hear it or not, it still creates the same soundwaves. Noone has to be there to hear it, noone has to believe in sound. It simple IS. And such is the case with evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The recognition of evil does require sentience. But evil exists as an absolute whether anything recognizes it or not. Are you seriously going to argue, for example, that the gratuitous and deliberate inflicting of torture and death upon an innocent, defenseless child by another human being is not evil? It is nothing but a perversion of logic to deny that such an act is evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And evil is not simply the lack of good. When put in measurable terms of action, the lack of good is simply apathy or indifference or even an action that is inherently devoid of any type of moral judgement. Evil, on the other hand, is proactive and malicious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every day that we live, we make a conscious decision to do good to other people, or to inflict evil upon them. It's that simple. We all try to justify, explain away, or otherwise minimize our actions with religion, politics, economics, perceptions and beliefs. But in the summation of our lives, we choose to embrace either good or evil. So, yes Virginia, there is evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please dont use such big words to sound all important. What you just said didnt make sense, and was complealty conterdictory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your asking me if torturing a kid is evil. And your saying there is absolute evil. But that conterdicts eachother. How is that possible when there is soem people in the world who see that as good, and not doing that to the child for their own reasons, would be the evil thing to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We all try to justify, explain away, or otherwise minimize our actions with religion, politics, economics, perceptions and beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That makes no sense at all. If perception and beliefs are used to justify or minimize our actions, then your saying there is absolute, but that cant be, because those things do exist, and they are what creat the diffrences in the world. It is possible to argue the esitance of evil, but impossible to argue the existance of percetpions and beliefs, becuase to do so would be ironic and conterdictory.

[Bubsa]

To stick on Lion's side, when he said "no" to my perception I wasn't aggrieved or annoyed. I respect his opinion because our ideologies come from different ends of the spectrum. How can I criticise someone for that?

 

 

 

I debate in these kind of things to learn what other people think and to perhaps learn and incorporate their thoughts into my life. I can safely say in this thread I've achieved that :)

[Led-Zeppelin]

I reckon us humans are a evil species. We're greedy, selfish, look at all the bad stuff we do all over the planet, to each other, and to the planet itself..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're not exactly doing any good being here, how many species have we wiped out now? And no, I'm not a depressed goth, haha.

[Astralinre]

 

There is an objective reality. So it doesn't matter one twit how anyone's perception of reality is colored by beliefs, morals, etc. When a tree falls in the woods, whether anyone or anything is there to hear it or not, it still creates the same soundwaves. Noone has to be there to hear it, noone has to believe in sound. It simple IS. And such is the case with evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The recognition of evil does require sentience. But evil exists as an absolute whether anything recognizes it or not. Are you seriously going to argue, for example, that the gratuitous and deliberate inflicting of torture and death upon an innocent, defenseless child by another human being is not evil? It is nothing but a perversion of logic to deny that such an act is evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And evil is not simply the lack of good. When put in measurable terms of action, the lack of good is simply apathy or indifference or even an action that is inherently devoid of any type of moral judgement. Evil, on the other hand, is proactive and malicious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every day that we live, we make a conscious decision to do good to other people, or to inflict evil upon them. It's that simple. We all try to justify, explain away, or otherwise minimize our actions with religion, politics, economics, perceptions and beliefs. But in the summation of our lives, we choose to embrace either good or evil. So, yes Virginia, there is evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please dont use such big words to sound all important. What you just said didnt make sense, and was complealty conterdictory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your asking me if torturing a kid is evil. And your saying there is absolute evil. But that conterdicts eachother. How is that possible when there is soem people in the world who see that as good, and not doing that to the child for their own reasons, would be the evil thing to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's wrong with using big words? If they're the best way for him to clarify what he's talking about, let him use them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And "Is this evil?" and "There is absolute evil" don't contradict each other at all. In fact, you can't answer the question unless the statement is true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And since when does perception determine reality? Allow me to quote what I said earlier, which was completely ignored:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I believe that I can walk into the middle of a busy highway and all the cars will just pass through me instead of hitting me, does that make it true? If I perceive a car as being just as valuable as a human, is it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We all try to justify, explain away, or otherwise minimize our actions with religion, politics, economics, perceptions and beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That makes no sense at all. If perception and beliefs are used to justify or minimize our actions, then your saying there is absolute, but that cant be, because those things do exist, and they are what creat the diffrences in the world. It is possible to argue the esitance of evil, but impossible to argue the existance of percetpions and beliefs, becuase to do so would be ironic and conterdictory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why can't it be? And when did he argue against the existence of perceptions and beliefs? All he said was that we sometimes use our perceptions to justify our evil actions.

[Lionheart_0]

I reckon us humans are a evil species. We're greedy, selfish, look at all the bad stuff we do all over the planet, to each other, and to the planet itself..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're not exactly doing any good being here, how many species have we wiped out now? And no, I'm not a depressed goth, haha.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ya, that could bee seen, but also its our nature, just like its the nature of other animals to kill for food.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And since when does perception determine reality? Allow me to quote what I said earlier, which was completely ignored:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Astralinre wrote:

 

 

 

If I believe that I can walk into the middle of a busy highway and all the cars will just pass through me instead of hitting me, does that make it true? If I perceive a car as being just as valuable as a human, is it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

But your thinking physical, im saying about something such as evil, diffrent subjects and topics, nothing physical. Something such as the cars passing through you is reality, and that you must accpet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About the car being as valiauble as a human, well it could be. If some one percievs it as that (and some people probably do) then it means to that person the care is just as valuable.

[Althalus]

Evil is more of an opinion. What may be considered evil to someone may be something normal to another person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Example: I think smoking is the ultimate evil, I despise it in any form. My sister and dad on the other hand somehow find joy in it.

[Lionheart_0]

Evil is more of an opinion. What may be considered evil to someone may be something normal to another person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Example: I think smoking is the ultimate evil, I despise it in any form. My sister and dad on the other hand somehow find joy in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes i was think about this on the way home from lazermani ^.^. And wht i came to the conclusion was, that since there is no absolute evile, one could call something evil from their standpoint. meaning that evil now means something that opposis you.

[whiteboy1102]

the ending 2 terminator3 pretty much sums it up:the human race is goin 2 destroy itself

[How2PK]

Is there good? It's all about based on opinions, I think.

[Lionheart_0]

Is there good? It's all about based on opinions, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actuly you are right, you made me think of something else, i shoul of asked if there is good, and evil

[insane]

 

Is there good? It's all about based on opinions, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actuly you are right, you made me think of something else, i shoul of asked if there is good, and evil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You keep saying good and evil are subjective and agreeing with people and saying they're right when they say that, but you have yet to give a reason to believe evil and good are subjective values.

[How2PK]

Evil things can be done with a good intention.

[hammerhand]

That is the question that will cause the collapse of civilazation in a completly secular world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evil was the first thing that does not belive it exists, and it tries to convince others of its point of view.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In any story does the most evil character ever say "I'm evil"? Of course not (unless were talking demons here, and there are exeptions there too), instead they have a immense desire for power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So are terrorists evil? Look at there ultimiate goal. To crush the world powers that oppose them and convert the world to Islam under their rule. Since there is a desire for power there. I consider them evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone who seeks power evil? No. As long as they seek power as a means to do great good (such as to ensure freedom) they are not evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So why do I think this question will be the downfall of a secular world. Without clear definitions of good and evil society will tear itself to pieces after enough people figure they can do whatever they want. This could take 50 years it could take 500 years but it will happen.

[mad4u689]

I'm a hardcore relativist; everything only exists in our perception of it, deep down, in the end. We just need to act like that's not the case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no real "evil." People are not good or evil. It's not like there's "some good" and "some evil" in everyone - they're born as a baby with certain genetic predispositions and then environmental factors change them. That means that no one starts out evil, and in a sense, everyone starts out somewhat innocent. There are things people do that can be percieved as morally wrong and thus evil (ie. Hitler) but that doesn't mean he himself is a person of pure evil; he's still a human being with feelings somewhere deep down there, and was merely corrupted over time. Each person may have their own (entirely correct) system of morals, but I may disagree with your system of morals and subsequently dismiss you as stupid and/or barbaric.

[DontQuestionMe]

So are terrorists evil? Look at there ultimiate goal. To crush the world powers that oppose them and convert the world to Islam under their rule. Since there is a desire for power there. I consider them evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone who seeks power evil? No. As long as they seek power as a means to do great good (such as to ensure freedom) they are not evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The insurgents just want their own country, they want freedom from an occupying force that they percieve as evil. The insurgents are coming from a minority who are afraid that in a Democratic Iraq they will not have the fair voice that they should be entitled too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Convert the world to Islam? What is wrong with that? Christianity and Islam are both proselytic, their goal is to convert the world to their faith.

[Lionheart_0]

 

 

Is there good? It's all about based on opinions, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actuly you are right, you made me think of something else, i shoul of asked if there is good, and evil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You keep saying good and evil are subjective and agreeing with people and saying they're right when they say that, but you have yet to give a reason to believe evil and good are subjective values.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:? Um i keep saying good and evil are objective, not subjective.

[logic-is-overrated]

 

 

 

Is there good? It's all about based on opinions, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actuly you are right, you made me think of something else, i shoul of asked if there is good, and evil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You keep saying good and evil are subjective and agreeing with people and saying they're right when they say that, but you have yet to give a reason to believe evil and good are subjective values.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:? Um i keep saying good and evil are objective, not subjective.

 

 

 

It sounded to me like you were arguing subjective too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its all about perception

 

 

 

And wht i came to the conclusion was, that since there is no absolute evile, one could call something evil from their standpoint. meaning that evil now means something that opposis you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How2PK wrote:

 

 

 

Is there good? It's all about based on opinions, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actuly you are right, you made me think of something else, i shoul of asked if there is good, and evil

Massive miscommunication I guess.

[Lionheart_0]

 

 

 

 

Is there good? It's all about based on opinions, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actuly you are right, you made me think of something else, i shoul of asked if there is good, and evil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You keep saying good and evil are subjective and agreeing with people and saying they're right when they say that, but you have yet to give a reason to believe evil and good are subjective values.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:? Um i keep saying good and evil are objective, not subjective.

 

 

 

It sounded to me like you were arguing subjective too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its all about perception

 

 

 

And wht i came to the conclusion was, that since there is no absolute evile, one could call something evil from their standpoint. meaning that evil now means something that opposis you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How2PK wrote:

 

 

 

Is there good? It's all about based on opinions, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actuly you are right, you made me think of something else, i shoul of asked if there is good, and evil

Massive miscommunication I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, lol ok perhaps i didnt make my first post corect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Love and Hate are perception therefore subjective, Good and Evil are Objective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was going out on a limb saying that one would call something they dissagree with evil, but i thought it through again, and that would make everything in the world both good and evil, not making sense. So never mind my earlier comment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And about the thing How2pk said, i was just saying that i should of included good as well as evil in this topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, not many of you know me well, but i almos tnever make up my mind right way. I say how i feel then, and then will think it through, and find a flaw and change my mind... ya im crazy.

[Guest GhostRanger]

I'm a hardcore relativist; everything only exists in our perception of it, deep down, in the end. We just need to act like that's not the case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no real "evil." People are not good or evil. It's not like there's "some good" and "some evil" in everyone - they're born as a baby with certain genetic predispositions and then environmental factors change them. That means that no one starts out evil, and in a sense, everyone starts out somewhat innocent. There are things people do that can be percieved as morally wrong and thus evil (ie. Hitler) but that doesn't mean he himself is a person of pure evil; he's still a human being with feelings somewhere deep down there, and was merely corrupted over time. Each person may have their own (entirely correct) system of morals, but I may disagree with your system of morals and subsequently dismiss you as stupid and/or barbaric.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say there is no evil, yet you say that people can do things that are perceived as wrong. I agree that people are not evil, but I do believe people can do evil things. I believe what Hitler did was evil and I don't belive that is open to interpretation as you do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do we then decide what is acceptable? If evil is only based on the individual idea, how can you or the government tell me that I'm wrong and should go to jail for killing my neighbor?

[kaibani]

Alright alright...there is...in fact, evil. Deep inside our hearts...lies a monster, that is sealed by love. But what if...the person doesn't recieve any love? or the person who was once engulfed by love is now trapped inside a hell of fear, hate, loneliness...Once that seal is broken, that monster is unleashed, and your mind slowly becomes clouded with confusion, and soon enough, you have become evil!!!!!!!! :twisted: <--just like this dude!!!!!!!!ya..erm...anyways. What i'm trying to say is that sometimes we may let that evil in our hearts leak out, which leads us to the act of cruelty and murdering. Also, fear is another factor that lets our evil out. Like a person who was running away from the police pursueing him, because of fear of being locked up, the evil in his heart slowly blinds his thoughts and he sees the idea of killing the police. that is all...

[Duke_Freedom]

People who can't see the difference between "good" and "evil" lack the ability to observe objectively, intelligent and logically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words, those terrorists who perceive killing innocent people as good are completely insane... I challenge you to disagree with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you do, then I'm sorry, but I'll have to call you insane too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With so many people not believing in good and evil nor knowing what is good and what is evil, I am definately not surprised that the world we are living in provides so much suffering for so many people.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

People who can't see the difference between "good" and "evil" lack the ability to observe objectively, intelligent and logically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words, those terrorists who perceive killing innocent people as good are completely insane... I challenge you to disagree with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you do, then I'm sorry, but I'll have to call you insane too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With so many people not believing in good and evil nor knowing what is good and what is evil, I am definately not surprised that the world we are living in provides so much suffering for so many people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah...this is exactly what I think. :wink:

[Lionheart_0]

People who can't see the difference between "good" and "evil" lack the ability to observe objectively, intelligent and logically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words, those terrorists who perceive killing innocent people as good are completely insane... I challenge you to disagree with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you do, then I'm sorry, but I'll have to call you insane too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With so many people not believing in good and evil nor knowing what is good and what is evil, I am definately not surprised that the world we are living in provides so much suffering for so many people.

Hmm examples examples....

 

 

 

Well... i cant think of any really good examples.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But again im saying, how can you say that there is the absolute, if some people do percive it... There is no way to prove absolute evil. There is mostlikely things that we all do that others think is evil, but that couldnt be, cause that would mean the whole world is evil and good at the same time... compleatly conterdicting eachother.

[Guest GhostRanger]

 

People who can't see the difference between "good" and "evil" lack the ability to observe objectively, intelligent and logically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words, those terrorists who perceive killing innocent people as good are completely insane... I challenge you to disagree with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you do, then I'm sorry, but I'll have to call you insane too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With so many people not believing in good and evil nor knowing what is good and what is evil, I am definately not surprised that the world we are living in provides so much suffering for so many people.

Hmm examples examples....

 

 

 

Well... i cant think of any really good examples.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But again im saying, how can you say that there is the absolute, if some people do percive it... There is no way to prove absolute evil. There is mostlikely things that we all do that others think is evil, but that couldnt be, cause that would mean the whole world is evil and good at the same time... compleatly conterdicting eachother.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right...there is no way to prove absolute evil. It doesn't mean its not there. To say evil is relative is to say no one can do any wrong and everything should be acceptable in society. EVERYTHING. Because everyone perceives everything differently. So I can murder people if I want to.

[Lionheart_0]

 

 

People who can't see the difference between "good" and "evil" lack the ability to observe objectively, intelligent and logically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words, those terrorists who perceive killing innocent people as good are completely insane... I challenge you to disagree with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you do, then I'm sorry, but I'll have to call you insane too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With so many people not believing in good and evil nor knowing what is good and what is evil, I am definately not surprised that the world we are living in provides so much suffering for so many people.

Hmm examples examples....

 

 

 

Well... i cant think of any really good examples.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But again im saying, how can you say that there is the absolute, if some people do percive it... There is no way to prove absolute evil. There is mostlikely things that we all do that others think is evil, but that couldnt be, cause that would mean the whole world is evil and good at the same time... compleatly conterdicting eachother.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right...there is no way to prove absolute evil. It doesn't mean its not there. To say evil is relative is to say no one can do any wrong and everything should be acceptable in society. EVERYTHING. Because everyone perceives everything differently. So I can murder people if I want to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But our western society dislikes murder, and so does many othe rplaces around the world. But im sure if y ou went somewhere, it would mostlikely be accpeted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And also im saying no one can do any right, cause everything is unacceptable to the world as well. there is very few thigns that can be agreed on by every person on the planet.