Returning lost dung rewards

[Obtaurian]

who cares about Mhing? The last PvP needs is noobs bringing chaotic longswords into fights. As if claws and Ags didn't already make pking as messed up as it is now.

 

A lot of people already use chaotic weapons frequently. You can use the standard rune set with a DDS and a chaotic weapon without risking the weapon. The only people who risk chaotic are people who are already risking a lot anyway (guys like Taco Limey, etc). Making them easier to get won't do much to change how many people use them in PVP.

[i_trollz_u]

who cares about Mhing? The last PvP needs is noobs bringing chaotic longswords into fights. As if claws and Ags didn't already make pking as messed up as it is now.

 

Chaotic Longsword is terrible in PvP, the Maul is really the biggest concern.

 

And you already have people using that in BH +1 worlds.

 

Probably like 10x worse if people are able to get it back easier.

 

Also, I don't see why the fact that getting a chaotic wep requires lvling up dung matters. Both accumulating gp and accumulating xp/tokens both require time. At a base lvl, the CLS is just another weapons that takes an ass load of time to get. Just as rares/ags takes a lot of time to get. I mean its not like u lose ur 80 dung once u lose ur longsword.

[Obtaurian]

who cares about Mhing? The last PvP needs is noobs bringing chaotic longswords into fights. As if claws and Ags didn't already make pking as messed up as it is now.

 

Chaotic Longsword is terrible in PvP, the Maul is really the biggest concern.

 

And you already have people using that in BH +1 worlds.

 

Probably like 10x worse if people are able to get it back easier.

 

Also, I don't see why the fact that getting a chaotic wep requires lvling up dung matters. Both accumulating gp and accumulating xp/tokens both require time. At a base lvl, the CLS is just another weapons that takes an ass load of time to get. Just as rares/ags takes a lot of time to get. I mean its not like u lose ur 80 dung once u lose ur longsword.

 

Actually, you do. If you get 80 dungeoneering and get your chaotic weapon, then lose it, what good is your 80 dungeoneering? It's literally useless other than being able to access a few new areas (and not even the best one).

 

Tokens ARE experience. Chaotic weapons ARE dungeoneering. GP and dungeoneering tokens cannot be compared, as dungeoneering is a skill and tokens are the only tangible and unique benefit of leveling the skill.

[i_trollz_u]

who cares about Mhing? The last PvP needs is noobs bringing chaotic longswords into fights. As if claws and Ags didn't already make pking as messed up as it is now.

 

Chaotic Longsword is terrible in PvP, the Maul is really the biggest concern.

 

And you already have people using that in BH +1 worlds.

 

Probably like 10x worse if people are able to get it back easier.

 

Also, I don't see why the fact that getting a chaotic wep requires lvling up dung matters. Both accumulating gp and accumulating xp/tokens both require time. At a base lvl, the CLS is just another weapons that takes an ass load of time to get. Just as rares/ags takes a lot of time to get. I mean its not like u lose ur 80 dung once u lose ur longsword.

 

Actually, you do. If you get 80 dungeoneering and get your chaotic weapon, then lose it, what good is your 80 dungeoneering? It's literally useless other than being able to access a few new areas (and not even the best one).

 

Tokens ARE experience. Chaotic weapons ARE dungeoneering. GP and dungeoneering tokens cannot be compared, as dungeoneering is a skill and tokens are the only tangible and unique benefit of leveling the skill.

 

Ur 80 dung still upps ur total lvl + rank in highscores? Also i'm pretty sure u can get dung xp faster at 80 dung than u can at lvl 1 dung. Does losing everything in your house (obviously not realistic, but who cares) mean having 99 construction is useless? Probably not.

 

I'm still not sure why it matters even if the item was the point of the skill. Dying in runescape just means u have to spend time making up what u lost. Granted you can't lose skills in rs, but the longsword =/= skill, as much as it might seem like it. 80 dung is a skill which gives u abilities to wield items. the longsowrd isn't in of itself an ability, its just an item which like a lot of other items, take to time to get back again.

 

The real currency and factor that determines the worth of things in runescape is the time it takes to achieve the item. Nothing else allows you to spend less time achieving a lost item. Dung rewards shouldn't be any different.

[Obtaurian]

Ur 80 dung still upps ur total lvl + rank in highscores?

 

I already went over all of this with the other guy, but what the hell. Presumably, one levels a skill for some benefit. Having a high total level does not help me solo TDs. A chaotic weapon does.

 

Also i'm pretty sure u can get dung xp faster at 80 dung than u can at lvl 1 dung.

 

This is now true, yes. It's very convenient, but doesn't solve the problem.

 

Does losing everything in your house (obviously not realistic, but who cares) mean having 99 construction is useless? Probably not.

The only useful features of construction require cheap materials and low levels. It'd be more akin to dying to a dark beast and losing the ability to slay dark beasts.

 

I'm still not sure why it matters even if the item was the point of the skill. Dying in runescape just means u have to spend time making up what u lost. Granted you can't lose skills in rs, but the longsword =/= skill, as much as it might seem like it. 80 dung is a skill which gives u abilities to wield items. the longsowrd isn't in of itself an ability, its just an item which like a lot of other items, take to time to get back again.

 

 

This is where you're wrong. Chaotic weapons ARE dungeoneering experience. They are directly tied to how much experience you gain. If you're 120 dungeoneering and you lose all of your chaotic weapons, you have to spend your experience (tokens) to get more of them. If chaotic weapons are obtained as a drop from a resource dungeon, but couldn't be wielded till level 80 dungeoneering, you'd have a good point. Losing a chaotic weapon means you also lose the ability to use it until you've effectively gotten 80 dungeoneering all over again.

 

The real currency and factor that determines the worth of things in runescape is the time it takes to achieve the item. Nothing else allows you to spend less time achieving a lost item. Dung rewards shouldn't be any different.

 

Nothing else is directly tied to a skill or is as hard to re-obtain as a chaotic weapon. They're a new precedent.

[Zaaps1]

There is a very important fact that needs to be established.

 

In terms of skill benefits, levels are worthless. Your level reflects nothing.

 

Clearly, Jagex wanted Dungeoneering to be radically different from anything before. They introduced prestige as an anti-grinding measure, they introduced team dungeons to promote cooperative skilling, and they introduced tokens to prevent players from indirectly training Dungeoneering and reaping the benefits.

 

Obviously, this idea is not working because it is doing more harm than good. Levels get you nowhere. Experience gets you nowhere. The only thing that matters, when talking about rewards, are your Dungeoneering Tokens. You can NEVER say that "getting this level gives you the ability to use this item" in Dungeoneering, because it doesn't. The thing that gets you that ability are the tokens.

 

And furthermore, what's even MORE incendiary is the fact that you CANNOT USE every reward you have, so-called, "unlocked". I am 82 Dungeoneering, and assuming various Chaotic weapons/shields counting as one reward, I can only enjoy 4 Dungoneering rewards out of how many? 15-20?

 

I am 91 mining. Am I allowed to only mine copper, iron, granite, and runite?

 

I am 88 slayer. Can I only kill Bloodvelds, Aberrant Sceptres, Abyssal Demons, and Ice S.wyrms?

 

I am 96 summoning. Can I only summon Iron Titans, Pack Yaks, Geyser Titans, and Unicorns?

 

I am 78 construction (to use your example). Can I only build an Altar, a full Costume Room, a full Portal Room, and a full Menagerie?

 

Like hell I don't.

 

In addition, when I lose a Dungeoneering reward, I lose it forever and essentially have to get that level all over again. If I lose my CLS, I lose 200k tokens. While yes, you can make the case that I get xp quicker, it does not make 2m xp any less. Looking purely at rewards, if I lose my CLS, I lose 80 Dungeoneering levels or 2m Dungeoneering Xp. What if I die with it again? I lose another 2m Dungeoneering xp.

 

I am 91 mining. When I die, do I have to gain another 3.2m xp to mine runite again, even if I could mine Concentrated Gold to get that xp?

 

I am 88 slayer. When I die, do I have to gain another 3.2m xp to kill Abyssal Demons again, even if I can use Kuradal to get that xp?

 

I am 96 summoning. When I die, do I have to gain another 7m xp to summon Iron Titans again, even if I can make Pack Yaks and Geyser Titan pouches to get that xp?

 

I am 78 construction. When I die, do I have to gain another ~1.5m xp before I can build a Gilded Altar, even if I could build Oak Dungeon Doors to get that xp?

 

Like hell I don't.

 

Clearly, Jagex wanted to try something new in Dungeoneering. A commendable effort, surely, but ultimately more harmful than good. As a skill, Dungeoneering is flawed. It does not follow the conventions that Jagex has set for skills to follow. Therefore, the flaw must be corrected if Dungeoneering is to exist as a credible skill. There's no way around it. Dungeoneering is not acting like the skill it should and thus something must be done.

 

You raise a good point when you say that Pkers may abuse the raw power Chaotic weapons provide. But let's think, do you really think such thoughts did not cross Jagex's mind when they made it? Surely they knew, despite the token restrictions, SOME players were going to bring it into PvP? They could not let those few daredevils run rampant, right? Thus they made the weapons GAME-CHANGING but NOT BROKEN. Therefore, I see no problem with them being seen more common. It is, like everything else, earnt through hard work.

[i_trollz_u]

I don't see why any of these arguments matter.

 

So losing your cls means you have to back to training dung again and you have to gain more xp to get your cls back. Ok?

Thats the same as losing your Ags and having to go fish sharks again. Crap, i have to fish the same number of sharks again and also earn the same amount of xp all over for my ags. My fishing level is functionally useless, because i lost all the money i made with it. Only thing fishing does is let me fish sharks faster and boost my total level - so useless!!!

 

So you lost an item and you have to play runescape more to get it back. I don't see how thats any different from any other item, other than the fact tokens are harder to get than gp, which isn't relevant because all that means is more time lost (losing a chaotic weapon is probably less devastating than losing say, a p hat or a 2bil bank).

 

So losing your CLS is a lil different because you can ONLY train dung to get it back. Not sure why that matters, the only thing you're paying in is time. You pay for every item in time. The value of an item nowadays obviously isn't determined by cost in gp anymore, but the time you took to get it. You say some things are random and could be got in 2 minutes. True, but most of the time it isn't which is the reason vissage isn't like 10k - takes people sometimes months to get one and the time spent is the reason why its valued high. Make an argument as to why the CLS time spent to achieve it and to get it back isn't reflective of its true value.

[i_trollz_u]

Also, why it not following a precedant a bad thing? What's wrong with the CLS being obsurdly hard to obtain? Considering its as better than a GS (excluding spec) with a rune defender, it probably should be harder to obtain and REOBTAIN .

[Zaaps1]

I don't see why any of these arguments matter.

 

So losing your cls means you have to back to training dung again and you have to gain more xp to get your cls back. Ok?

Thats the same as losing your Ags and having to go fish sharks again. Crap, i have to fish the same number of sharks again and also earn the same amount of xp all over for my ags. My fishing level is functionally useless, because i lost all the money i made with it. Only thing fishing does is let me fish sharks faster and boost my total level - so useless!!!

Last time I checked, you can't fish godswords. You can't make this comparison being there's nothing in the Fishing skill that grants you the ability to "fish" godswords out of the ocean.

 

So you lost an item and you have to play runescape more to get it back. I don't see how thats any different from any other item, other than the fact tokens are harder to get than gp, which isn't relevant because all that means is more time lost (losing a chaotic weapon is probably less devastating than losing say, a p hat or a 2bil bank).

 

So losing your CLS is a lil different because you can ONLY train dung to get it back. Not sure why that matters, the only thing you're paying in is time. You pay for every item in time. The value of an item nowadays obviously isn't determined by cost in gp anymore, but the time you took to get it. You say some things are random and could be got in 2 minutes. True, but most of the time it isn't which is the reason vissage isn't like 10k - takes people sometimes months to get one and the time spent is the reason why its valued high. Make an argument as to why the CLS time spent to achieve it and to get it back isn't reflective of its true value.

 

Here's the essence of it. Dungeoneering is a skill. It is not a minigame. It is not a dungeon, however ironic that is. And it is not some sort of "boss activity". It is a skill. Being a skill, it should ACT like a skill.

 

However, it does NOT act like a skill. My theory is that Jagex intentional did this to experiment, but clearly, it is doing more harm than good. Thus, it should return to the tested-and-true system that all skills follow.

 

It's not a little difference at all. It's a huge difference. Think about tokens as the "real" exp (which it is, as many people have proved). No other skill loses experience (to the dismay of pures, heh). Why should Dungeoneering. Sure "technically" it doesn't lose exp, but in reality, you do.

 

Now, I'm not saying you should get it back effortlessly since, when all is said and done, the rewards ARE items. When you lose items, you MUST pay a penalty for losing it, be it 500gp to get Silverlight back or 533m for a Divine. However, you should NOT pay in experience, and that is the big problem.

[crashNburn]

The people who would shell out 30m+ for an item to risk also tend to be the people running around with chaotics in non +1 worlds anyway.

[Zaaps1]

Also, why it not following a precedant a bad thing? What's wrong with the CLS being obsurdly hard to obtain? Considering its as better than a GS (excluding spec) with a rune defender, it probably should be harder to obtain and REOBTAIN .

 

Because it is doing more harm than good.

 

Making it harder to reobtain is that what Jagex was trying to do. What Jagex was trying to do was to make sure you could not obtain such great items indirectly (lamps, penguins, etc.). How else do you explain the rigid connection between experience and tokens?

 

If Jagex wanted to make it simply harder to obtain and reobtain, there would be not connection as such.

 

The problem is, players are LOSING EXPERIENCE when they lose an item. And you must ask yourself, is that fair? All interpretations aside, do you agree it is not fair to lose experience when you lose a related item? We can start from there.

 

Then, since tokens are clearly the real experience, and losing items loses your tokens, it is not fair to completely lose all your tokens when you lose a related item, if you agreed to the question above.

 

Thus, if it is not fair, there is something wrong with the way Dungeoneering is planned out. The most likely reason is the huge deviance from the set standard for skills.

 

Change ISN'T bad, but when it brings bad results, the change must be compromised. Progress is fantastic, but when it beings to result in harm, it must be sacrificed for practicality.

[i_trollz_u]

I don't see why any of these arguments matter.

 

So losing your cls means you have to back to training dung again and you have to gain more xp to get your cls back. Ok?

Thats the same as losing your Ags and having to go fish sharks again. Crap, i have to fish the same number of sharks again and also earn the same amount of xp all over for my ags. My fishing level is functionally useless, because i lost all the money i made with it. Only thing fishing does is let me fish sharks faster and boost my total level - so useless!!!

Last time I checked, you can't fish godswords. You can't make this comparison being there's nothing in the Fishing skill that grants you the ability to "fish" godswords out of the ocean.

 

So you lost an item and you have to play runescape more to get it back. I don't see how thats any different from any other item, other than the fact tokens are harder to get than gp, which isn't relevant because all that means is more time lost (losing a chaotic weapon is probably less devastating than losing say, a p hat or a 2bil bank).

 

So losing your CLS is a lil different because you can ONLY train dung to get it back. Not sure why that matters, the only thing you're paying in is time. You pay for every item in time. The value of an item nowadays obviously isn't determined by cost in gp anymore, but the time you took to get it. You say some things are random and could be got in 2 minutes. True, but most of the time it isn't which is the reason vissage isn't like 10k - takes people sometimes months to get one and the time spent is the reason why its valued high. Make an argument as to why the CLS time spent to achieve it and to get it back isn't reflective of its true value.

 

Here's the essence of it. Dungeoneering is a skill. It is not a minigame. It is not a dungeon, however ironic that is. And it is not some sort of "boss activity". It is a skill. Being a skill, it should ACT like a skill.

 

However, it does NOT act like a skill. My theory is that Jagex intentional did this to experiment, but clearly, it is doing more harm than good. Thus, it should return to the tested-and-true system that all skills follow.

 

It's not a little difference at all. It's a huge difference. Think about tokens as the "real" exp (which it is, as many people have proved). No other skill loses experience (to the dismay of pures, heh). Why should Dungeoneering. Sure "technically" it doesn't lose exp, but in reality, you do.

 

Now, I'm not saying you should get it back effortlessly since, when all is said and done, the rewards ARE items. When you lose items, you MUST pay a penalty for losing it, be it 500gp to get Silverlight back or 533m for a Divine. However, you should NOT pay in experience, and that is the big problem.

 

The experience you earned is still there, we both know that losing your longsword =/= losing xp. You lost the reason for gaining the xp. Just as someone lost the reason for getting 99 fishing when they lost the item they spent all their money on. There's a crucial distinction you're missing here - you're not paying in xp you earned, your paying in xp you have to earn again in other words, simply spending more time to get an itme (yeah that new). There are obvious reason already addressed as to why 80 dung is perferable over 1 dung. I mean you are quite a bit closer to having a dung cape, and have access to resource dungeons. Its the same as fishing, the items you can buy through lvling that skill are a big part, but the items are items nontheless. I'm also not sure you've even actually made a reason as to why having to gain more dung xp to obtain your chaotic weapon is bad - personally i think its pretty inventive and fair considering how powerful the longsword is - once again, the only thing that determines how unfair a punishment is the time you have to spend to get it. Make a reason why spending more time to obtain the CLS is more unfair than spending the same amount of time to reobtain other items - whether or not dung is like other skills is irrelevant - hell i think its more like a minigame than even a skill.

 

You can't say xp is useless - thats like saying every skill is practically useless unless it has some great comabt item to obtain at the end of it - the only way your argument would be true is if you were literally losing xp for losing your item.

[stonewall337]

1 token=10 experience gained in a dungeon.

 

Chaotic weapon = 200k tokens.

 

GF chaotic weapon, essentially converts to GF 2m xp.

 

Know, if I could gain tokens like I could gain GP, or trade GP for tokens, you might have some merit to what you say.

[Zaaps1]

The experience you earned is still there, we both know that losing your longsword =/= losing xp.

Fine, technically, no.

 

You lost the reason for gaining the xp. Just as someone lost the reason for getting 99 fishing when they lost the item they spent all their money on.

Ah, yes, and if I lose my skillcape, do I need to get 13.2m xp to buy another? :)

 

There's a crucial distinction you're missing here - you're not paying in xp you earned, your paying in xp you have to earn again. There are obvious reason already addressed as to why 80 dung is perferable over 1 dung.

So to provide examples with what we already have:

 

In Dungeoneering, I need to gain 2m xp to get the reward again, a CLS, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by using floors 1-40 instead of starting at 1.

 

In Mining, I need to gain 3.2m xp to mine rune again if I die while mining rune, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by mining concentrated gold and granite.

 

In Runecrafting, I need to gain 1.5m xp to craft bloods again if I die while crafting bloods, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by using the ZMI altar.

 

In Herblore, I need to gain 9m xp to make Overlords again if I die while using them, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by making extreme potions.

 

Now, do any of those sound fair?

[i_trollz_u]

1 token=10 experience gained in a dungeon.

 

Chaotic weapon = 200k tokens.

 

GF chaotic weapon, essentially converts to GF 2m xp.

 

Know, if I could gain tokens like I could gain GP, or trade GP for tokens, you might have some merit to what you say.

 

No last time i checked you still had 2m xp when u scrolled your mouse over your dung lvl.

[Obtaurian]

I can't believe we're about to do this twice in one day. :rolleyes:

 

I summon Zaaps1. Zaaps, use LOGIC ATTACK!!!

[stonewall337]

1 token=10 experience gained in a dungeon.

 

Chaotic weapon = 200k tokens.

 

GF chaotic weapon, essentially converts to GF 2m xp.

 

Know, if I could gain tokens like I could gain GP, or trade GP for tokens, you might have some merit to what you say.

 

No last time i checked you still had 2m xp when u scrolled your mouse over your dung lvl.

And what good does that 2m xp do me?

 

If I lose my whip, I don't lose my level 70 attack that I need to wield it.

[i_trollz_u]

The experience you earned is still there, we both know that losing your longsword =/= losing xp.

Fine, technically, no.

 

You lost the reason for gaining the xp. Just as someone lost the reason for getting 99 fishing when they lost the item they spent all their money on.

Ah, yes, and if I lose my skillcape, do I need to get 13.2m xp to buy another? :)

 

There's a crucial distinction you're missing here - you're not paying in xp you earned, your paying in xp you have to earn again. There are obvious reason already addressed as to why 80 dung is perferable over 1 dung.

So to provide examples with what we already have:

 

In Dungeoneering, I need to gain 2m xp to get the reward again, a CLS, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by using floors 1-40 instead of starting at 1.

 

In Mining, I need to gain 3.2m xp to mine rune again if I die while mining rune, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by mining concentrated gold and granite.

 

In Runecrafting, I need to gain 1.5m xp to craft bloods again if I die while crafting bloods, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by using the ZMI altar.

 

In Herblore, I need to gain 9m xp to make Overlords again if I die while using them, even though I can use my current level to help me achieve it by making extreme potions.

 

Now, do any of those sound fair?

 

No, btw i thought 80 dung was a required ability for you to wield chaotic weapons? Don't think you ever lost that but w/e.

 

If you lost all your rune ore while rune mining, yes, you would have to re-mine all your rune ore again.

If you lost all your runes, yeah, you probably would have to make all of them again. Kind of stupid for you not to bank your runes and keep them in a big stack.

 

Most skills, like dung, supposedly has an external reward (other than cape + xp)

 

 

The reward here other than the xp is your runes which converts into money which converts into an ags which leads to death which leads to GF all your blood runes and xp you gained getting that ags. Thats functionally the same as obtaining a CLS, except your reward is directly translated into only one item.

 

You lost your reward from training the skill. That happens to every skill whether its mining, runecrafting, or fishing when some idiot takes their awesome weapon that took 2 months to obtain into a pvp world and gets killed by a ranger risking like, a dbow.

 

Sure, its bit tougher that your reward from a skill can be lost easier, but considering the fact your reward is an otherwise unobtainable and awesome item, i think the cost for losing it matches the value.

[Zaaps1]

Ok look, you aren't drawing parallel comparisons here.

 

You need to draw parallel comparisons, otherwise your argument s invalid.

 

And to your first point, that was honestly the first thing I addressed...

[i_trollz_u]

1 token=10 experience gained in a dungeon.

 

Chaotic weapon = 200k tokens.

 

GF chaotic weapon, essentially converts to GF 2m xp.

 

Know, if I could gain tokens like I could gain GP, or trade GP for tokens, you might have some merit to what you say.

 

No last time i checked you still had 2m xp when u scrolled your mouse over your dung lvl.

And what good does that 2m xp do me?

 

If I lose my whip, I don't lose my level 70 attack that I need to wield it.

 

What good did firemaking xp ever do? Still you don't lose your xp if you die when you die fming or eping. What good is any xp if you lost the money/item earned while earning it? Every skill in runescape is like that. Whether dung tokens are harder to earn or not isn't relevant.

[i_trollz_u]

Ok look, you aren't drawing parallel comparisons here.

 

You need to draw parallel comparisons, otherwise your argument s invalid.

 

And to your first point, that was honestly the first thing I addressed...

 

Its not paralell because your analogy was flawed. Dung rewards for gaining xp are directly put into one item. That's the only difference from skills like rc or mining, where all the money you earned can or cannot be directly put into one item. But the fact remains that if you lost the one item you put all your xp into, you can say "zomg my xp gained was useless". The equivalent to losing your CLS can happen if you trained any other skill and lost all the money you gained from training that skill. Dung isn't unique in that. In fact dung is even more like other skills because the currency you earn while training it could also be spent on usefull things other than a really powerful wep.

 

Not that it even matters if its like other skills.

[Obtaurian]

Ok look, you aren't drawing parallel comparisons here.

 

You need to draw parallel comparisons, otherwise your argument s invalid.

 

And to your first point, that was honestly the first thing I addressed...

 

Its not paralell because your analogy was flawed. Dung rewards for gaining xp are directly put into one item. That's the only difference from skills like rc or mining, where all the money you earned can or cannot be directly put into one item. But the fact remains that if you lost the one item you put all your xp into, you can say "zomg my xp gained was useless". The equivalent to losing your CLS can happen if you trained any other skill and lost all the money you gained from training that skill. Dung isn't unique in that. In fact dung is even more like other skills because the currency you earn while training it could also be spent on usefull things other than a really powerful wep.

 

Not that it even matters if its like other skills.

 

Perhaps a better comparison would be, if you lose your adze, you do not lose 6M firemaking exp, you just have to go get another adze. It's not that simple with chaotic weapons. You actually LOSE your 2M exp when you lose the weapon.

[Zaaps1]

Ok look, you can't compare the CLS reward to rewards like runite ore or blood runes.

 

You use xp to get a CLS whereas rune ore and bloods get you xp.

 

Two different things. If you want to make a comparison, you need to use an ability that xp achieves. For example, the ability to mine rune, instead of the rune itself.

[i_trollz_u]

Ok look, you aren't drawing parallel comparisons here.

 

You need to draw parallel comparisons, otherwise your argument s invalid.

 

And to your first point, that was honestly the first thing I addressed...

 

Its not paralell because your analogy was flawed. Dung rewards for gaining xp are directly put into one item. That's the only difference from skills like rc or mining, where all the money you earned can or cannot be directly put into one item. But the fact remains that if you lost the one item you put all your xp into, you can say "zomg my xp gained was useless". The equivalent to losing your CLS can happen if you trained any other skill and lost all the money you gained from training that skill. Dung isn't unique in that. In fact dung is even more like other skills because the currency you earn while training it could also be spent on usefull things other than a really powerful wep.

 

Not that it even matters if its like other skills.

 

Perhaps a better comparison would be, if you lose your adze, you do not lose 6M firemaking exp, you just have to go get another adze. It's not that simple with chaotic weapons. You actually LOSE your 2M exp when you lose the weapon.

 

 

Now it's getting kind of repetive, please read above.

[mister_moocky]

There is no problem. If you lose a dung item you must go play more dung to get it again. If you lose a tradable item you must make money and pay for it again. If you lose CW armour you must play CW for CW tickets. If you lose [item] you must gain [currency] to buy it back. This is how runescape works. If you lose a whip (and before you jump in and call me a poor noob who doesn't know how to make money, yes, I am aware 200k dung tokens takes far longer than making money for a whip) and you do not have the money to buy one back, you have to earn your money back.

 

It does not make your 70+ attack any less valid. You have the ability to weild it, you lack the funds, you did not lose your earned xp, you must spend more time earning the currency to purchase a whip. If the only way to buy a new whip is training attack, your general situation stays the time. You need to spend time (training attack) to get the funds to buy a whip. Yes dungeoneering is different in that the only way to gain dung tokens is training dung. And that's simply that. Dungeoneering is different than other skills.