Poor equipment stats on quest related stuff

[Roooo]

Hi

 

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts - i'm surprised that so many has participated so far :thumbsup:

 

As i read through your replies i can see that quite a few of you argue that the reason why the Cape of Legends has so bad stats is because it is an old item in comparison to the, in my example, the Obsidian Cape.

 

This is somewhat a valid point, however, i will still call it bad gamedesign when the devs release a cape which you don't have to work hard to get ie. grinding tons of quests - i cannot understand why they didn't took a close look at the Cape of legends before they made the stats for the Obsidian cape - is it okay to release a cape that has better than the Cape of Legends which players just can buy ?

 

Would anyone of you find it acceptable if they introduced a new cape which had better stats than the Fire Cape and this new cape could be bought for like 1 million ? - would any then bother getting the Fire Cape anymore (personally i wouldn't)

 

I think my point covers the Dragon sq Shield

 

You have to think all of these rewards in the time they were released. Both items you mentioned in the OP were out before the TzHaar area was created, and in their time, they were the best options.

 

You have a good point, however, i think that the devs has a responsibility to make sure that newer content don't "conflict" with older content and i think the "issue" of Cape of Legends vs. Obsidian Cape is a prime example for gamedesign gone wrong.

 

In regards to the Proselyte vs. the White Knight armor i can now see the question isn't so easily answered as you need higher stats to wear Proselyte than White Knight armor.

If they had to consider older pieces of equipment before making new ones, nothing would ever be released. The alternative is to only release new items to people who do all quests, and that would alienate the (notably large) portion of Runescape players who do not like doing quests.

[SirIzenhime]

The legends cape was the only cape to give decent stats when it came out. The only other option was normal colored capes

The Dragon Square shield was the best shield untill the Crystal Shield came out, and even then, most people used Dragon Sq since the crystal only needed to degrade 3 times before it was worse the the Square.

 

As for white knight armor.....beats me.

[strilmus]

Well, the white knight armor's requirements were set that high because they figured that people would be insane enough to grind that long for it while they were making other stuff (like how some crazy guy gets to 120 dungeoneering before they even have content for it), but further use of this kind of prediction was sadly off the mark like Mobilizing Armies and being able to set accurate values for the Grand Exchange.

 

It's tough to accurately gauge these things when you don't actually play the game enough to know what you're going after.

[Dragonlordjl]

 

It's tough to accurately gauge these things when you don't actually play the game enough to know what you're going after.

This is the root of most Jagex's problems. They don't play enough, so they are forced to rely on what THEY think would be a cool/useful addition to the game which is often way off the mark from what most of the players think is cool/useful.

[Jehosaphat]

I think the biggest disappointment in this thread is the lack of mention of the 300 QP helm. I mean, the thing requires most of the quests nowadays, and gives....? JACK SQUAT.

[Troacctid]

But does that make it okay then ?

Yes.

 

[hide]Nah, I'm only messing with you. Of course imbalance and power creep are not flatly "okay." It's just that the problems they cause are largely independent of how they're obtained--quests don't really factor into it. So while your concerns are somewhat valid, your overall analysis is flawed.[/hide]

[Neohero1972]

 

 

Would anyone of you find it acceptable if they introduced a new cape which had better stats than the Fire Cape and this new cape could be bought for like 1 million ? - would any then bother getting the Fire Cape anymore (personally i wouldn't)

 

 

What are you talking about, they do this all the time???

 

Eg: Dragon Dagger (which requires quests) and Dragon Claws. For 99% of situations, claws are a rich mans dd.

 

But does that make it okay then ? - I think your example is yet another piece of gamedesig-gone-wrong evidence

 

So you're saying that progress is bad? I don't get what the point of your thread is.

 

No i'm certainly not saying progress is bad

 

The point of this thread is to learn what the rest of you think (I'm not trying to flame you) on this issue which i have spend quite some time thinking of why it is so.

[Sir_Kurity]

Really, quests get plenty of good rewards, just because there are a few bad ones is no reason to complain.

 

Things like turmoil, handcannon, access to TD's, ancients, lunars, magic secateurs, fairy rings, spirit trees, etc; more than make up for a few things like legends cape. There is really no reason to complain about a few quest items, of which the only reason they are underpowered is because they are outdated...

 

... Or in white knights armors case, really only for aesthetics.

[Neohero1972]

If they had to consider older pieces of equipment before making new ones, nothing would ever be released. The alternative is to only release new items to people who do all quests, and that would alienate the (notably large) portion of Runescape players who do not like doing quests.

 

I think you're on to something here

 

Personally i would like to see players who do quests getting equipment which are slightly better than the ones you can buy on the G.E if you have enough money.

 

I don't think this would alienate the players who don't want to quest (very much)

 

I can give you to good examples:

 

The Cape of Legends: give it 10 in all defence stats and maybe a strength + payers bonus

 

The Dragon Sq Shield: give it better stats in Range, Summoning and Strength than the Obsidian Shield

 

Now, i know that it is way too late to change them now, however, Jagex could get around this problem by making a small and insignificant side quest and use the upgraded stats as a quest reward.

 

 

It's tough to accurately gauge these things when you don't actually play the game enough to know what you're going after.

This is the root of most Jagex's problems. They don't play enough, so they are forced to rely on what THEY think would be a cool/useful addition to the game which is often way off the mark from what most of the players think is cool/useful.

 

I can only agree with both of you; Jagex simply don't play the game enough themselves to catch these "mishaps", however, one would expect that they, after running Runescape for such a long time, had accumulated some sort of knowledge on what to do and more importantly what not to do !

 

I think the biggest disappointment in this thread is the lack of mention of the 300 QP helm. I mean, the thing requires most of the quests nowadays, and gives....? JACK SQUAT.

 

Well, this just another piece of evidence to support my point I think !

 

I wish to once again thank those of you who has participated so far - that means: both the ones who seem to agree (a little) and those who gives me a good bashing.

[Sir_Kurity]

I don't think this would alienate the players who don't want to quest (very much)

 

Yea it would.

 

The Cape of Legends: give it 10 in all defence stats and maybe a strength + payers bonus

 

The Dragon Sq Shield: give it better stats in Range, Summoning and Strength than the Obsidian Shield

 

You already get GREAT rewards from questing. Do you honestly need every quest item to be better than non quest items? Seriously?

 

Yes, there are some bad eggs, mostly crap because they are old and outdated, or not even meant for combat. However, some of the very best rewards in the game come from questing, i honestly dont know what your complaining about.

 

Well, this just another piece of evidence to support my point I think !

 

What evidence? Oh right, the evidence that a 300 QP helmet that was NEVER meant for stats is bad? We already know that, its meant to look cool!

 

Its like me complaining about strength being underpowered because the cape at the end has crap stats. Yes, it has crap stats, no, it was never meant to have good stats.

[Neohero1972]

I don't think this would alienate the players who don't want to quest (very much)

 

Yea it would.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

 

 

The Cape of Legends: give it 10 in all defence stats and maybe a strength + payers bonus

 

The Dragon Sq Shield: give it better stats in Range, Summoning and Strength than the Obsidian Shield

 

 

You already get GREAT rewards from questing. Do you honestly need every quest item to be better than non quest items? Seriously?

 

Yes, there are some bad eggs, mostly crap because they are old and outdated, or not even meant for combat. However, some of the very best rewards in the game come from questing, i honestly dont know what your complaining about.

 

I know that i get some quest rewards which are great (the last Fairy Tale quest for example), but i still can't help sitting here with a strange feeling when a quest reward don't yield something which i feel will give some sort of edge - after all it was me who went down to that dungeon to slay some ungodly creature and running the risk of dying while one of fellow players just build up his stats slaying for example Hill Giants while doing a bit of merchanting on the G.E to build up a huge enough pile of cash to get that "epic" piece of equipment.

 

If you think i'm my little tale is talking sh!t then please look up the following equipment and don't forget to read the accompanying notes:

 

Elysian spirit shield

 

Dragonfire shield (fully charged)

 

All i can say is that i think they have done it again...

 

Well, this just another piece of evidence to support my point I think !

 

I just hate to repeat this one - again !

[xpx]

So your point is that quest related rewards should give you an edge over buyable items when infact...THEY DO, or DID. It is not jagex'es fault you weren't around in rsc or the start of rs2 where, as stated many times, legends cape WAS the best cape, and dragon SQ shield WAS the best shield. If you want a cape to give you an edge, look no further than the sw cape(very quest related, tied as the best cape in game) or for shields, all spirit shields are very much quest related. So, when you are crying about there rewards losing their glory, they have infact, been replaced by other, QUEST related rewards.

[totalpwnage]

Yeah, pretty much what everyone else said. However, there are some quest rewards that are totally unnecessary. I can't think of any right now, but I'm sure they're there. Trust me. ;)

 

Anchor.

Actually anchor's really been underrated as a cheap ko weapon in non +1 pvp worlds. Anchor costs 230k, and DH axe costs 740k. Anchor is +92 crush, +100 strength. DH Axe is +105 slash, +93 crush, and +105 strength. You can use it with a DH set but thats an extra 10m.

Add a granite maul to the anchor and you can get some really deadly KOs. Banna Deamon actually has a video which has quite a bit of anchor/maul. I'm gonna be trying it myself soon too.

Also, it's the highest strength for a 60 attack weapon other than corrupt PvP weapons, but again those are very expensive due to being a 20 attack requirement.

 

This is Banna Deamons video. Fair warning, the lyrics contain obscene language.

And no this isn't meant to be advertising, I'm just saying because it's proving my point that anchor is actually underrated.

 

EDIT: Back onto the items OP talked about...

Legends Cape. Very good, cheap cape. Obsidian capes are 90k, and Legends cape are just a little less defence but for a lot cheaper. It's great for edge pking, save yourself some money when you die (everyone dies eventually so yeah..)

 

Dragon sq shield, it's nice and cheap with good defence, though it has a high alch value. The mage and range attack negatives are a lot less than those of the obsidian shield. I rarely ever use obby shields, even pking. Even in +1, I'd rather use a rune kite, cause obby shields are expensive as hell.

 

White armour is 10 def and you only need to kill knights to buy it from the shop I'm pretty sure. I do disagree with the knight killing requirement - though it makes another version of black armour easier to buy, so its nice for 10-19 def pures.

[Sir_Kurity]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

 

Yea, it would.

 

Why should you be able to get a cape with better stats than obby, on top of the fact that the cape is only 500 GP.

 

Not to mention soul wars cape rips them all apart (and is a quest reward mind you).

 

Elysian spirit shield

 

Dragonfire shield (fully charged)

 

All i can say is that i think they have done it again...

 

So what? People paid millions for that shield, the elysian SS is what, 500 mill? Does it even sell on GE?

 

Why do you suddenly think your more deserving for a better item just because you did a quest?

 

after all it was me who went down to that dungeon to slay some ungodly creature and running the risk of dying while one of fellow players just build up his stats slaying for example Hill Giants while doing a bit of merchanting on the G.E to build up a huge enough pile of cash to get that "epic" piece of equipment.

 

If you think i'm my little tale is talking sh!t then please look up the following equipment and don't forget to read the accompanying notes:

 

Seriously dude, just because you did some quest doesnt make you any more deserving of a better stat item than someone who paid cash or slayed a boss monster for the privelage. Especially because most quests are hilariously easy to do, even some of the ones that are considered hard (desert treasure, monkey madness, etc)

 

As i already said, quests have GREAT rewards, some of the best rewards in the game. Just because a few rewards arent up to scratch doesnt mean you should whine...

 

Even spirit shields are technically quest items, it just so happens that they are tradable (whats so wrong with that?)

 

I just hate to repeat this one - again !

 

Are you stupid?

 

The fact that a 500 mill shield which to be honest is quest related, and a 30 mill shield which is also quest related. Happens to beat a 10 year old 1 mill shield from RSC proves nothing.

 

Really, you just sound like someone whos butthurt because his quests don't give him a massive cheap advantage over players who don't quest as much, remember, this game doesn't revolve around quests...

[Neohero1972]

So your point is that quest related rewards should give you an edge over buyable items when infact...THEY DO, or DID. It is not jagex'es fault you weren't around in rsc or the start of rs2 where, as stated many times, legends cape WAS the best cape, and dragon SQ shield WAS the best shield. for shields, all spirit shields are very much quest related. So, when you are crying about there rewards losing their glory, they have infact, been replaced by other, QUEST related rewards.

 

Well, that's what i'm saying: "quest related rewards should be better than the ones you can just purchase"

 

Important: You can have quest related rewards which are tradeable that's fine by me as long as the player is only able to use them if they have completed the quest where the item is rewarded.

 

If you want a cape to give you an edge, look no further than the sw cape(very quest related, tied as the best cape in game)

 

I'm sorry for sounding so ignorant, but what cape is that ?

 

for shields, all spirit shields are very much quest related. So, when you are crying about there rewards losing their glory, they have infact, been replaced by other, QUEST related rewards.

 

Why would i waste my time going after a Spirit Shield when a Dragonfire shield (fully charged) has better stats ?

 

If you read my previous post (which you have) more carefully then you would/should know that the best shield in the game right now, according to tip.it's own Sort By Stats tool, is the Dragonfire shield (fully charged)

 

Do you need to finish any quests to obtain this great shield ? - no you don't - all you need is relative high stats and a pile of cash as far as I know.

[totalpwnage]

Why would i waste my time going after a Spirit Shield when a Dragonfire shield (fully charged) has better stats ?

 

If you read my previous post (which you have) more carefully then you would/should know that the best shield in the game right now, according to tip.it's own Sort By Stats tool, is the Dragonfire shield (fully charged)

 

Do you need to finish any quests to obtain this great shield ? - no you don't - all you need is relative high stats and a pile of cash as far as I know.

Divine Spirit Shield and Elysian Spirit Shield both lower damage taken, and have no attack negatives. You need the quest to wear these shields. Dragonfire shield's strength bonus is very rarely relevant because most places where you'd use it for that, you can use a defender instead.

 

Anyways, IMO, bottom line of making quest rewards really good is that it ruins the economy and weapons/armour will lose a lot of value because you'd just be able to go get your quest stuff back for free, or maybe a little cost, but still. It also ruins pking because you can't get those items that they pk with and they can get them back easily.

[Neohero1972]

 

Really, you just sound like someone whos butthurt because his quests don't give him a massive cheap advantage over players who don't quest as much, remember, this game doesn't revolve around quests...

 

Hmmm, maybe it's here i made a bad turn so to speak, however, if you don't think the game revolves around questing then what do you think it revolves around ?

 

I personally think questing plays a rather substantial part of the game.

[xpx]

Soul wars(red/blue) cape- 8 in defense category's, 12 prayer, situationally the best cape in the game, usually used more frequently than fire cape- quest reward of nomad's requiem, 150k.

 

Dragonfire shield IS quest related(you need dragon slayer to get antifire shield), but is by FAR inferior to all the spirit shields with sigils, which, evidently, are completely quest related, as you can't get them without completing summers end, nor can you wield them without completing the quest.

 

So really, you are complaining about a few quest related rewards getting out of date when actually they have been replaced by superior quest related items. Maybe you are doing the wrong quests or are too much of a newbie to reach the next tier of quest rewards?

[Sir_Kurity]

Allow me to reiterate. QUEST ITEMS HAVE AMONG THE BEST STATS IN THE GAME, and quest rewards are AMONG THE BEST IN THE GAME. Many of these quest items are tradable, but, they are still QUEST ITEMS.

 

Sure, the legends cape in particular has crap stats, but who cares! Thats like me referencing a bronze dagger and saying non-quest items suck. Just because a certain item is inferior doesn't mean the whole wad of items are.

 

Great quest items and quest related items/rewards:

 

-Ancient Curses, INSANELY good prayers.

-Ancient Magicks, pretty much essential for magical combat.

-Lunar Magic.

-Accumilator, pretty much essential for efficient ranged combat.

-God books, among best range attack bonus.

-Soul wars cape, among the best capes in the game.

-Spirit shields, by far the best shields in the game.

-DFS, another great shield.

-RFD gloves, pretty much best gloves in game.

-Claws, DDS, Dragon scim.

-Proselyte armor

-And more...

 

General non-combat useage from quests.

 

-Fairy rings, great method of travel.

-Spirit trees

-Slayer masters

-Unlocks summoning

-Unlocks herblore

-Unlocks runecrafting

-Neumerous training methods and areas unlocked, some of which are the best XP in said skill (blackjacking bandits).

-And more...

 

Its obvious that quests have great rewards, among the best in the game. THERE IS NO REASON TO COMPLAIN. You are complaining about a problem that never existed in the first place, get over it, legends cape sucks, this has nothing to do with quest rewards sucking... WHO CARES.

 

Hmmm, maybe it's here i made a bad turn so to speak, however, if you don't think the game revolves around questing then what do you think it revolves around ?

 

Nothing, jagex lets you play the game how you want to play it.

 

I personally think questing plays a rather substantial part of the game.

 

Of course, which is why quests have MANY GREAT REWARDS!!!

 

Just because they dont nessesarily have the best rewards in the game in every aspect of the game for almost no price at all is no reason to be butthurt.

 

Why would i waste my time going after a Spirit Shield when a Dragonfire shield (fully charged) has better stats ?

 

Spirit shields have damage reduction and no negative bonuses, worth far more than a few extra points in defence.

 

Do you need to finish any quests to obtain this great shield ? - no you don't - all you need is relative high stats and a pile of cash as far as I know.

 

No, but its a quest related shield, the main place to get anti-dragon shield is from dragonslayer, and if you want to attach a visage without a ridiculous smithing requirement you need dragon slayer.

 

Yes they are tradable. But they are still QUEST RELATED.

[Neohero1972]

Hi

 

From reading through all the posts I'm under the impression that I might have got it all wrong (well most of it), quite a few of you have taken you time to make rather large posts in order to give a thorough explanation which i have a very hard time arguing against.

 

I think my only option is to strike my colors and admit a "small" defeat !

[Sir_Kurity]

I'm happy with that. :shades: