Should Endgame Quests Require Awesome Levels?

[Demoli]

You are not getting his point Obtaurian, he is saying Dungeoneering itself is self centered, and that the story belongs not to the skill, but to the area. It's as if you attached Elven Storyline to a Summoning Obelisk. And yes, i agree with Silvertaler

[Silvertaler]

1. So you agree with me that quests involve some sort of challenge or goal for the player to complete. See what happens when we go back to the start and target each point specifically? Turns out we were arguing over something we agree on. However, I go a bit further and define certain "core" elements of questing (problems to be solved, puzzles, boss fights, uncovering of lore). These elements are not present in every quest, but they're common enough to be considered.

 

2. I disagree. Your main argument is that the lore in Dungeoneering is largely self-containd; it does not affect anything outside of Daemonheim and may only be a small distraction in future quests (such as using your Dungeoneering level to unlock a dungeon). The lore in Dungeoneering is directly related to the Mysteries of the Mahjarrat storyline, and the conclusion of the Dungeoneering skill will have a huge impact on the rest of Runescape.

 

SPOILERS:

 

In Bilrach's Chronicles we learn that the "Rift" at the bottom of Daemonheim is actually the door to where Zamorak is locked up. Bilrach intends to free Zamorak into the world, which would enact the Edicts of Guthix, destroying us all. As I'm sure you remember, Azzanadra intends to free Zaros into the world, so the fact that we have two all-powerful Mahjarrat Generals who are planning to unleash their gods, plus the fact that another Mahjarrat is intending to BECOME a god makes the Dungeoneering skill pretty important in the grand scheme of things.

 

In conclusion, you're wrong that Dungeoneering lore is self-contained and does affect anything outside of itself.

 

3. I haven't argued that skills are the core reason for questing (but I do believe that the drive to test one's skills -- whether in the real world or Runescape -- is a good reason to go questing or adventuring), so I don't know why we keep talking about this. I believe that skills are an important ASPECT of questing because our avatars cannot just inherently know how to go about helping people. This is why I believe that high-level skill requirements should eventually come about; we'll inevitably find some problem in Runescape that requires an expert in certain skills to solve. It's only logical.

1. Yes there is some sort of goal, since you're doing a favour to an NPC. Think of quests on World of Warcraft as quests from which you took off everything except the two elements that still make them quests. You generally have a little plot like "the wolves are attacking my sheep", followed by the favour which is "kill 100 wolves for me please". That's the very base of a quest. On Runescape you can add the few elements you mentioned, because quests are a bit more complex, so yeah it's true, I guess we agree on this.

 

2. I don't mean to say that 100% of what's related to Dungeoneering is self-contained. I mean to say that the skill itself, the action of you going inside Daemonheim and doing a dungeon, is self-contained. The area and the skill, globally speaking, still have an importance. Maybe Zamorak is hidding in the very last floor, but I highly doubt you'd have to get 120 Dungeoneering to do a quest. I don't think going through all those dungeons will be necessary, and if so it erases the chance of them being involved in the plot.

Think of it as the whole Void Knight activity. You have the background story, the quests and the minigame, in the same way Daemonheim has its background story, a possible future quest, and the skill. Pest Control may help you get a clearer view of what's going on, but no matter how many times you play it, it won't help you make progress in the plot. The quests are there for that. In the same way, the Dungeoneering skill helps you get a clearer view of what the dungeons are about, but no matter how many times you repeat it you won't see Zamorak coming out of there. That's what the quests are there for, for you to give some progress to the plot. But then again no quest has been released yet, so we're down to assumptions here.

 

3. Yes but the question is, why make questing depend too much on skilling just for the sake of sounding realistic, when this is a fantasy game? Last time I checked, reality didn't always matter, you can for example carry 2 billion cannonballs in your inventory...

[Troacctid]

#1 What is questing?

 

The two common points between all quests are first, the fact they all have a plot, second the fact that you eventually help somebody in the process: you become a hero. Let's consider these are the "plot" factor and the "help" factor - keep this in mind for later. In quests you're solving a plot which either involves helping someone, or putting someone in advantage over someone else. Some quest series start out by quests that don't immediately make you a hero, such as the Rellekka series or the White Knight series that start out by recruitment quests; some other quest series start out by quests that don't immediately have a clear plot, like Nomad's Requiem seems to be. But you can't judge those by themselves, since the whole series count as one big quest that got cut down to smaller ones.

Sometimes you help out a single person, like in Cook's Assistant or Love Story, sometimes you help out entire factions like in Dealing With Scarabas or While Guthix Sleeps; and sometimes you don't really know who you're helping but you still help people in the process, like in Desert Treasure where you end up helping the ice troll family and later Azzanadra, the mahjarrat. In Love Story, Zenevivia defines questers like this herself, she calls them the good doers if I remember well. As a secondary effect, you end up having an impact on Gielinor's history during many quests: this is the consequence of them having plots. For instance, during the Varrock quest series you help fend off an attack by the undead, which could have been much more dangerous if you were not there to help.

 

^Fremennik dude recruiting adventurers to explore Daemonheim

[Silvertaler]

#1 What is questing?

 

The two common points between all quests are first, the fact they all have a plot, second the fact that you eventually help somebody in the process: you become a hero. Let's consider these are the "plot" factor and the "help" factor - keep this in mind for later. In quests you're solving a plot which either involves helping someone, or putting someone in advantage over someone else. Some quest series start out by quests that don't immediately make you a hero, such as the Rellekka series or the White Knight series that start out by recruitment quests; some other quest series start out by quests that don't immediately have a clear plot, like Nomad's Requiem seems to be. But you can't judge those by themselves, since the whole series count as one big quest that got cut down to smaller ones.

Sometimes you help out a single person, like in Cook's Assistant or Love Story, sometimes you help out entire factions like in Dealing With Scarabas or While Guthix Sleeps; and sometimes you don't really know who you're helping but you still help people in the process, like in Desert Treasure where you end up helping the ice troll family and later Azzanadra, the mahjarrat. In Love Story, Zenevivia defines questers like this herself, she calls them the good doers if I remember well. As a secondary effect, you end up having an impact on Gielinor's history during many quests: this is the consequence of them having plots. For instance, during the Varrock quest series you help fend off an attack by the undead, which could have been much more dangerous if you were not there to help.

 

^Fremennik dude recruiting adventurers to explore Daemonheim

...Obviously they put that there to look nice, he doesn't set any goals for you. You should consider the entire conversation not just the nice greeting message.

 

They also claim they need your help at Pest Control and Barbarian Assault, yet they're minigames. It doesn't go further than that.

[Demoli]

Of course the help factor isn't the only thing that defines a quest, otherwise Familiarization would also be a quest, since you help the Druibs and all right?. Just a small line in hundreds of phrases doesn't automaticly turn it into a halping action either. When you are helping someone in a quest, the Plot evolves ad revolves around said theme and/or person.

 

In dungeoneering, you rarely even see the Fremnicks, or at least interact to them in any meaningfull way. Unless you consider browsing a shop meaningfull.

[Troacctid]

 

^Fremennik dude recruiting adventurers to explore Daemonheim

...Obviously they put that there to look nice, he doesn't set any goals for you. You should consider the entire conversation not just the nice greeting message.

He goes on to explain that they've been losing warriors and they need reinforcements, then tells you what you need to do next to start helping. *shrug*

 

It's certainly more than you get for Elemental Workshop. :ugeek:

[Silvertaler]

 

^Fremennik dude recruiting adventurers to explore Daemonheim

...Obviously they put that there to look nice, he doesn't set any goals for you. You should consider the entire conversation not just the nice greeting message.

He goes on to explain that they've been losing warriors and they need reinforcements, then tells you what you need to do next to start helping. *shrug*

 

It's certainly more than you get for Elemental Workshop. :ugeek:

I've backed up my previous post with a couple of examples while you posted. You should consider those.

 

And I do agree Elemental Workshop has little content, it's some sort of overgrown miniquest.

[Emmentail]

More quests like MEP2 please!

 

What we really need is quests like Legends' Quest, Desert Treasure, While Guthix Sleeps & company. The hardcore style quests that go like "here's your mission, have fun finding out how to do it yourself" kind of quests. In the recent quests, NPC's lead you around too much.

 

I thought WGS was quite bad in that respect! I was told everything of where to go, what items to take etc... It was pathetic!

[Demoli]

EW plot is not directly told to you, it's in the books. The plot is about repeating the steps of a scientis trying to refine the Elemental ore and turn it into armour. He also sacrifices a lot of his disciples in order to perfect the armour (I think he sacrified most trying to create mind armour and a few others trying to get Body armour, not sure).

 

So right there, EW has more plot that Dungeoneering. And before you throw Bilrach at my face, that is Daemonheim plot, connected to the location and not the skill itself.

[Silvertaler]

Of course the help factor isn't the only thing that defines a quest, otherwise Familiarization would also be a quest, since you help the Druibs and all right?. Just a small line in hundreds of phrases doesn't automaticly turn it into a halping action either. When you are helping someone in a quest, the Plot evolves ad revolves around said theme and/or person.

 

In dungeoneering, you rarely even see the Fremnicks, or at least interact to them in any meaningfull way. Unless you consider browsing a shop meaningfull.

Now that I think of it, I did forget an important "progress" factor that is common to all quests as well, and that clearly sets a bigger difference between them and minigames or Dungeoneering.

 

That said, EW is indeed more of a quest than Dungeoneering, even though it lacks the "help" factor.

[Lep]

EW plot is not directly told to you, it's in the books. The plot is about repeating the steps of a scientis trying to refine the Elemental ore and turn it into armour. He also sacrifices a lot of his disciples in order to perfect the armour (I think he sacrified most trying to create mind armour and a few others trying to get Body armour, not sure).

 

So right there, EW has more plot that Dungeoneering. And before you throw Bilrach at my face, that is Daemonheim plot, connected to the location and not the skill itself.

 

Damonheim plot is not directly told to you, it's in the books. The plot is about repeating the steps of a Mahjarrat trying to reach the bottom of Damonheim and discover its secrets. The Mahjarrat also sacrifices a lot of his disciples in order to discover the secrets (I think he sacrified most trying to reach the bottom and a few others trying to defend the dungeon from outsiders, not sure).

 

So right there, Dungeoneering has more plot that EW. And before you throw the scientist at my face, that is EW plot, connected to the story and what you actually do in those quests.

 

Fixed.

 

Sorry, but dungeoneering is more of a quest than a lot of "Quests" are. The only thing that keeps it from that is that there's no triggers/conditions set that activate something in the quest icon that says something like "Discovering Damonheim". :rolleyes:

[Demoli]

And there, it's Daemonheim the location, not the skill Dungeoneering. Progressing Dungeoneering in now shift daemonheim or influences the world, therefore it's not a quest. Daemonheim =/= Dungeoneering.

 

So right there, while both of these in conjuction may ammount to a few similarities with quests, they are in no way shape or form quests.

[Lep]

How does it even matter that it's called dungeoneering? That's just what you're doing to discovering damonheim. You can call it exploring or discovering or milking a cow it doesn't matter... it's just a word for what you're doing. Just like by discovering the elemental workshop, you're questing. Discovering damonheim, you're dungeoneering.

[Demoli]

The thing is, you don't progress the plot in daemonheim, everything is already done and registred (in this matter, Dungeoneering really resembles EW series).

 

On the daemonheim/deungeoneering aspect, Daemonheim is a location. The lore isn't from the skill, but from the location. It is in certain ways comparable to some minigames, like Pest Control and Stealing creation, where the lore is in the location, not in the actions, unlike most of the quests. That means Dungeoneering doesn't have a lore. The act of you "rediscovering" the dephs desn't add to any plot. There isn't progression. Not to say all quests progress, as that would be a blatant lie, but all the good, or even decent quests do.

 

So, in sumation, there isn't enough in Dungeoneering for it to be classified as a quest, even though Daemonheim is a good location for a quest.

[Obtaurian]

Imagine a quest where we stumble upon a huge, ancient castle being explored by the Fremennik. The Fremennik tell us that they've sent warriors underneath the castle to explore and find the source of whatever evil they think resonates from there, but only two of those warriors have lived and returned (Thok and Marmaros). We, the adventurers, agree to explore the depths of Daemonheim to find the source of this evil (because as Zenevivia says in Love Story, we'll pretty much do anything for anyone for any reason).

 

The quest is called Dungeons of Daemonheim.

 

We battle our way deep underneath the castle, through 60 floors of monsters, necromancers, puzzles, skill-obstacles, grotesque stalkers, gigantic demons, and other unfathomable horrors, all the while finding clues and texts that start to explain why the castle is there and why it's being tunneled under. We learn that the Mahjarrat Bilrach is responsible, and that we're actually in pursuit of him. We eventually learn that he's actually trying to free Zamorak who is trapped at the bottom of Daemonheim, which obviously has huge implications for the rest of Runescape. Thus, our goal is to reach the bottom of Daemonheim to stop Bilrach from dooming us all.

 

Sounds like a pretty epic quest, right? Now assign each floor a level and introduce the prestige system: The Dungeons of Daemonheim quest becomes the Dungeoneering skill.

 

Like Lep said, it doesn't matter what you call the skill -- Dungeoneering just represents your skill and experience in regards to exploring Daemonheim. What matters is that without the levels and prestige system, the Dungeoneering skill would undoubtedly be the Dungeons of Daemonheim quest (and would be unanimously lauded as the best quest EVER).

 

Dungeoneering is a quest with the mechanics of a skill and the rewards system of a minigame.

[Demoli]

The thing is the only way to prove what you are arguing is if after you reach level 119 or 120 or whatnot, after you defeat Bilrach/Zamorak/Whatnot, there would be some change. And considering Bilrach is a Mahjarrat, he would have a gigantic amount of power.

 

What would make it a quest however, was if after you defeat/confront him, something would affect and/or progress the rest of Runescape Lore or Mythology, heck even Daemonheim's Plot. The way Dungeoneering is panning out so far, bosses keep re-apearing. In quests, bosses are one time only that once defeated something happens and (dramaticly or not) changes the plot.

 

In Daemonheim, you defeat a boss, nothing changes.

 

And thats the main diference between Dungeoneering and a quest: Progression. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING you do in Daemonheim changes and/or affect the outcome so far. Everything you find is from the past. You don't build new passageways, you go through the same halls Bilrach once was. Sure, while this may resemble some quests (again, EW comes to mind), the majority of Quests revolve around progressing the plot to reach a conclusion. Daemonheim is, currently, STALE.

 

Again, this could be proven or Disproven By batch 1.825, 2, 3 or whatever it will be called.

 

If you ask me to describe Dungeoneering, I'd say it is a Minigame, albeit a very well produced with a nice backstory one, with a taken on EXP method. Experience that is mostly useless outside of RS.

[Obtaurian]

The thing is the only way to prove what you are arguing is if after you reach level 119 or 120 or whatnot, after you defeat Bilrach/Zamorak/Whatnot, there would be some change. And considering Bilrach is a Mahjarrat, he would have a gigantic amount of power.

 

What would make it a quest however, was if after you defeat/confront him, something would affect and/or progress the rest of Runescape Lore or Mythology, heck even Daemonheim's Plot. The way Dungeoneering is panning out so far, bosses keep re-apearing. In quests, bosses are one time only that once defeated something happens and (dramaticly or not) changes the plot.

 

In Daemonheim, you defeat a boss, nothing changes.

 

And thats the main diference between Dungeoneering and a quest: Progression. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING you do in Daemonheim changes and/or affect the outcome so far. Everything you find is from the past. You don't build new passageways, you go through the same halls Bilrach once was. Sure, while this may resemble some quests (again, EW comes to mind), the majority of Quests revolve around progressing the plot to reach a conclusion. Daemonheim is, currently, STALE.

 

Again, this could be proven or Disproven By batch 1.825, 2, 3 or whatever it will be called.

 

If you ask me to describe Dungeoneering, I'd say it is a Minigame, albeit a very well produced with a nice backstory one, with a taken on EXP method. Experience that is mostly useless outside of RS.

 

I already said that it has the mechanics of a skill (doing the same thing over and over again; grinding). Do you know why the story doesn't progress like it does in a quest? Because Jagex hasn't finished the story yet. Once the skill is complete, a run from floor 1-60 will play out very similarly to an epic quest.

 

Given that you think Daemonheim is stale, I'd say that your aversion to relating Dungeoneering to a quest is mostly just your dislike of Dungeoneering. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Demoli]

It is true i don't like dungeoneering, being my reasons the usual grinding aswell as it's low impact on Runescape, specially outside Daemonheim, and the Token system which is extremely broken.

 

But i will still say that Daemonheim's Plot is Stale, because quite simply there isn't any progression. Thats why i think Dungeoneering isn't a quest by any means.

 

Like you said, i will wait until the Skill is complete to finalise my judgement, but so far is nothing like a quest imo.

[Lep]

Not sure how the plot is stale. It's actually one of the best plots in the entire game from what I've seen. One of the most memorable parts is reading about Lexicus Runewright and Astea Frosweb and that they were in love with each other, but the both eventually betrayed Bilrach only to become enslaved by him to guard the upper floors from adventurers.

[Zaaps1]

Not sure how the plot is stale. It's actually one of the best plots in the entire game from what I've seen. One of the most memorable parts is reading about Lexicus Runewright and Astea Frosweb and that they were in love with each other, but the both eventually betrayed Bilrach only to become enslaved by him to guard the upper floors from adventurers.

 

He keeps them ~6 floors apart. Smart man.

[Silvertaler]

The thing is the only way to prove what you are arguing is if after you reach level 119 or 120 or whatnot, after you defeat Bilrach/Zamorak/Whatnot, there would be some change. And considering Bilrach is a Mahjarrat, he would have a gigantic amount of power.

 

What would make it a quest however, was if after you defeat/confront him, something would affect and/or progress the rest of Runescape Lore or Mythology, heck even Daemonheim's Plot. The way Dungeoneering is panning out so far, bosses keep re-apearing. In quests, bosses are one time only that once defeated something happens and (dramaticly or not) changes the plot.

 

In Daemonheim, you defeat a boss, nothing changes.

 

And thats the main diference between Dungeoneering and a quest: Progression. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING you do in Daemonheim changes and/or affect the outcome so far. Everything you find is from the past. You don't build new passageways, you go through the same halls Bilrach once was. Sure, while this may resemble some quests (again, EW comes to mind), the majority of Quests revolve around progressing the plot to reach a conclusion. Daemonheim is, currently, STALE.

 

Again, this could be proven or Disproven By batch 1.825, 2, 3 or whatever it will be called.

 

If you ask me to describe Dungeoneering, I'd say it is a Minigame, albeit a very well produced with a nice backstory one, with a taken on EXP method. Experience that is mostly useless outside of RS.

 

I already said that it has the mechanics of a skill (doing the same thing over and over again; grinding). Do you know why the story doesn't progress like it does in a quest? Because Jagex hasn't finished the story yet. Once the skill is complete, a run from floor 1-60 will play out very similarly to an epic quest.

 

Given that you think Daemonheim is stale, I'd say that your aversion to relating Dungeoneering to a quest is mostly just your dislike of Dungeoneering. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Do you think they'll add a quest directly related to Daemonheim, in the same way they just gave a quest to the Void Knights?

[Troacctid]

Do you think they'll add a quest directly related to Daemonheim, in the same way they just gave a quest to the Void Knights?

I think it's inevitable, personally.

[MstrMonopoly]

The thing is the only way to prove what you are arguing is if after you reach level 119 or 120 or whatnot, after you defeat Bilrach/Zamorak/Whatnot, there would be some change. And considering Bilrach is a Mahjarrat, he would have a gigantic amount of power.

 

What would make it a quest however, was if after you defeat/confront him, something would affect and/or progress the rest of Runescape Lore or Mythology, heck even Daemonheim's Plot. The way Dungeoneering is panning out so far, bosses keep re-apearing. In quests, bosses are one time only that once defeated something happens and (dramaticly or not) changes the plot.

 

In Daemonheim, you defeat a boss, nothing changes.

 

And thats the main diference between Dungeoneering and a quest: Progression. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING you do in Daemonheim changes and/or affect the outcome so far. Everything you find is from the past. You don't build new passageways, you go through the same halls Bilrach once was. Sure, while this may resemble some quests (again, EW comes to mind), the majority of Quests revolve around progressing the plot to reach a conclusion. Daemonheim is, currently, STALE.

 

Again, this could be proven or Disproven By batch 1.825, 2, 3 or whatever it will be called.

 

If you ask me to describe Dungeoneering, I'd say it is a Minigame, albeit a very well produced with a nice backstory one, with a taken on EXP method. Experience that is mostly useless outside of RS.

 

I already said that it has the mechanics of a skill (doing the same thing over and over again; grinding). Do you know why the story doesn't progress like it does in a quest? Because Jagex hasn't finished the story yet. Once the skill is complete, a run from floor 1-60 will play out very similarly to an epic quest.

 

Given that you think Daemonheim is stale, I'd say that your aversion to relating Dungeoneering to a quest is mostly just your dislike of Dungeoneering. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Do you think they'll add a quest directly related to Daemonheim, in the same way they just gave a quest to the Void Knights?

 

Dungeoneering =/= minigame.

Pest Control = minigame.

 

The point of this argument is that Dungeoneering IS a quest, one that requires fluid skill levels but definitely gives an advantage to those at the top (which I believe some poster posted as the requirement for the "ultimate" quest).

 

That being said, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a quest related to Dungeoneering in some way.

[Obtaurian]

I think the only way for Jagex to create a quest that directly relates to the events in Daemonheim would be to have multiple levels of completion for the quest (like RFD). How far you can get in the quest would depend on how far into Daemonheim you've explored, but there'd be quest points and rewards for every "step" of the quest, if you will. Then, of course, there's the matter of Bilrach attending the ritual in the north, Zamorak being freed, etc. I think there'll be quests that INVOLVE the events of Daemonheim, but none specifically about Daemonheim.

[Sir_Squab]

In my opinion, quests shouldnt have hard quest requirements, but should be so hard to do that without certain skills, it would be stupid to attempt it anyway.

 

In which case you might as well make it a requirement in the first place....

 

Personally, one thing I'm wondering about....what if you had a quest that required level 80 or 90....something? (I'd prefer not to have combat because it's the highest...)

 

Although, from a content point of view though, it probably wouldn't happen - what skill you used would somewhat affect how the quest played out, and with 20+ skills...

 

in my opinion, most of the posters here just want to play all the game content without the necessary prerequisites for that to be reasonable. think of game logics, not just yourself here for a minute:

 

 

i need level 85 hunter and 80 agility to catch a butterfly with my bare hands. How can you then be an epic quester with stats that are any lower?

 

As a casual gamer over many years myself, I can't help but notice that all skills lower than level 50, and all quest niches (other than dungeoneering, which is new) for these levels are filled. most skills are now close to 70, for the quest cape.

 

Also as a casual gamer over many years, i notice that all players playing the game to meet the quest cape requirements from new high quests, can reacquire their cape very rapidly after a new quest is released.

 

With the first "endgame skill" being released, and no quest requiring a level higher than 77 magic, i can't help but think to myself that jagex need to release at least one high level quest instead of the ludicrous process of slight increase after slight increase (while still releasing pointless low level quests, an area of the game that is already over-filled). At the current pace, there will never be an "elite quest".

 

Jagex think a lot about their lower-end players (hey 92 is only half-way). The upper half of the game, after level 92, is all but empty. requirements in the high 80s have been ripe for a couple of years already.

 

why not skip to a lvl 90 mining / construction / smithing quest in the dwarven quest series? Dwarfs are supposed to be inherently superior to humans in these respects, so game logic demands high human stats to be of any aid to the dwarfs at all. Elves? easily 90+ agility to compare to their grace and self-control.

 

Viking quests: good navigators, born fishermen and berserkers. why not 90 fishing and 90 strength to rid the north of future troubles?

 

void knights: the void knights need champions, leaders and heroes. 120 combat doesn't sound unreasonable, with summoning and all.

 

two high level quests per one non-high level quest sounds reasonable, the upper half of the game has 0 quest points, the lower half has 308 and counting. That's quite a gap to close.

 

Because that would piss off a hell of a lot of people who have barely have their quescapes. I'd certainly be pissed off at a quest with 90 fishing, 90 agility, 90 mining/construction.... that's actually part of the reason that the diaries have no cape for completing them all. They could make diaries that require 99 in some skills. You'd still have the rewards from the diaries you beat. But with the questcape, people lose out on it, and they become very angry. That's WHY Jagex makes quests that, at worst, usually take a couple weeks for someone who previously had the questcape to beat. (Except maybe someone who JUST got it.)

 

I could easily see them making dwarf or elf content with reqs in the 90s, but Jagex isn't dumb enough to do that with quests.

 

 

 

i need level 85 hunter and 80 agility to catch a butterfly with my bare hands. How can you then be an epic quester with stats that are any lower?

 

Because quests are about solving plots, saving damsels in distress, stoping Lucien from destroying Runescape and such, not about catching a butterfly or a monkfish. You can catch a butterfly, great you're better than me at it. But still, you can catch as many butterflies as you want, it won't make you a better quester than one who is skilled at questing... that's like if you trained at cooking food in real life to later know how to fly an F15 bomber lol. Questing and skilling are two different activities for a reason.

 

I'll break it own for you then:

 

solving pots: quest unique, no relevant skill, experience (quantified by exp) relevant

saving damsels in distress: requires skills for saving i.e. combat, or abilities, i.e. skill puzzles.

stopping Lucien from destroying runescape: huge combat requirement, all brain and no brawn = dead quester. you're talking about beating a God here, you'd better be good at surviving (hp, defence, agility etc. etc.)

 

yes, skill requirements for quests need to be relevant. If i were to catch a mosquito with chopsticks (or any other trivial "small favour" npc's require of us in quests) it'd be an advantage if i knew how to catch a butterfly, would it not? I'd need to be even more agile, and even better at hunting. oh look! we have two skills that match those prerequisites: hunter and agility!

 

let's say i were to repair a cavern (not in the brimhaven volcano or anything), wouldn't it be an advantage to be able to repair things, and clear rubble safely? oh look! mining and construction!

 

I don't need to catch a butterfly to fly a plane, but to build myself a scuba kit in the medieval times i'd need to be either proficient at magic, OR i would need to be sincerely good at crafting and engineering (oh look! crafting and construction!).

 

you need skills to perform tasks in quests. otherwise you're just an obsolete administrator, not an adventurer (see the kingdom portion of the fremennik quest series, or "one small favour" and to see how boring and pointless that would be.

 

you can't argue for why quests shouldn't require levels involving correct use of logic and reason. your argument is emotive because you want to play all quests.

 

Or, Jagex could just NOT make a quest where you catch a misquito with a chopstick. Problem solved. Also, pretty sure the TzHaar quest involved mining and construction in a volcanic cavern - WITHOUT level 99 mining and construction. So, yeah, you need requirements - the question the OP posted WASN'T should quests have requirements, but rather "awesome levels." So, as long as we avoid catching a misquito with a chopstick, we're good. Or, maybe part of the quest involves making some special potion, or doing something so that you ARE able to catch a misquito with a chopstick - and by doing something, I mean doing questing stuff, rather then catching a bunch of kyatts.

 

As for any arguments being emotive....here's a question. Would Vulcans waste time playing video games, especially ones that involve a lot of grinding? Probably not.

 

Runescape is enough of a grindfest as is, let's try to keep questing away from that.

 

I really don't see us fighting Lucien, any other marjarrat, dragonkin etc etc ever.. They've made them too mary sue.

 

fixed for the truth

 

Robert the Strong killed dragonkin. Not all the Mahjarrat are strong - one quest, early ardy nub quest kinda, you either help revive or stop the resurrection of a Mahjarrat. Another quest, you lead around a weak Mahjarrat - so maybe you could fight weakened ones.

 

However, Lucien can summon TD's, so we can't fight him directly.