Should Endgame Quests Require Awesome Levels?

[Obtaurian]

I can't believe I have to do this right now. :rolleyes:

 

Questing has nothing to do with your skills.

 

What game are we playing again?

 

During quests you don't use skills because you have to prove yourself, you use skills because things get in your way and you're either skilled enough to get past them or not.

 

Obviously, and you're contradicting your first sentence here.

 

Questing is about living an adventure, contribute to the story of Gielinor and even changing the course of history, not about proving how good you are at x or y skills.

 

And our avatars are just supposed to inherently know how to figure all of that out? No, that's why we train SKILLS.

 

You don't get to do any of that in Dungeoneering.

 

Dungeoneering actually contains ALL aspects of questing, and more. If you can prove to me that there are no puzzles, boss fights, or lore in the dungeoneering skill, you win the argument. PROTIP: You can't.

 

You're just getting past rooms until you reach a final room where you defeat the boss, then repeat over and over again the same process.

 

Nope, that's not all there is to it. You've never touched the skill, obviously.

 

In the long run, it's grinding, what makes it just another skill.

 

No one's arguing that it's not a skill.

 

There is no plot involved, no addition to the story of the game.

Yeah, you're right. I guess the fact that we're pursuing a Mahjarrat deep underneath a castle that belonged to the Dragonkin to try and prevent him from freeing Zamorak is proof that there's no plot or addition to the storyline of Runescape. :rolleyes: Maybe you should've researched a bit before you made such an asinine claim.

 

When it's said Dungeoneering adds up to Runescape, it's the area itself and its history that add up, something that has been there before you even trained the skill, not your actions inside the dungeon.

 

You're contradicting yourself again. Dungeoneering doesn't add to the storyline of Runescape, but it does? Our actions inside the dungeon are going to have a HUGE effect on the future of Runescape. We're (presumably) trying to stop an all-powerful Mahjarrat from FREEING A GOD WHICH WILL ENACT THE EDICTS OF GUTHIX, DESTROYING US ALL. I'd say our actions inside the dungeon are pretty damn relevant.

 

During quests, it's your actions that make the difference, and that fact alone makes the two things very distant.

 

See above.

 

It doesn't take a genious to understand that.

 

You're absolutely right.

[Knight_Zaros]

It's pretty obvious that everything will continue to get higher leveled, with some updates for the inbetween every once in awhile. Look at weapons, barrows is how old? Like 5+ Years if I remember correct I dont know to lazy to look it up. But in five years we honestly don't have another TRUE armor set that is widely used and accepted as better.

 

Sure bandos and thirdage, but bandos is strictly offensvie in nature and in many cases barrows is the better pick overall unless you dont need the defense. Thirdage is a joke, and not because I can't afford it, because noone can afford it really. I have never scene someone fighting in thirdage. Never.

 

My point it's taken us 5+ years and still no level 80 fullscale armors. It takes time to gradually increase the level cap/skill requirements/etc.

[Sir_Kurity]

You've clearly never even touched dungeoneering, as the entire skill is in itself a MASSIVE quest. What is the "point" of questing, exactly?

 

Questing typically has more of a storyline than get in this dungeon and grind the same 30 levels over and over.

 

Though yes, its kinda like a quest, you do need to grind the same levels over and over to get to the end, its not just a 1-47 kind of thing.

[Obtaurian]

You've clearly never even touched dungeoneering, as the entire skill is in itself a MASSIVE quest. What is the "point" of questing, exactly?

 

Questing typically has more of a storyline than get in this dungeon and grind the same 30 levels over and over.

 

As I explained in my last post, the Dungeoneering skill is in itself a story.

[Sir_Kurity]

Oh yea, but its not a sequential kind of thing, chances are, your doing 1-30 over and over before you get to the higher floors, and other than the bosses and the background, its all pretty monotonous.

 

One giant quest where your really just doing the same thing over and over, doesnt seem like some epic quest to me.

[Obtaurian]

Oh yea, but its not a sequential kind of thing, chances are, your doing 1-30 over and over before you get to the higher floors.

 

One giant quest where your really just doing the same thing over and over, doesnt seem like some epic quest to me.

 

Well it's still a skill, there's still the grind factor. Once the skill is complete (floors up to level 119), I imagine it'll be a very epic experience for anyone high enough level to fight Bilrach at the end every run.

[Sir_Kurity]

Oh yea, but its not a sequential kind of thing, chances are, your doing 1-30 over and over before you get to the higher floors.

 

One giant quest where your really just doing the same thing over and over, doesnt seem like some epic quest to me.

 

Well it's still a skill, there's still the grind factor. Once the skill is complete (floors up to level 119), I imagine it'll be a very epic experience for anyone high enough level to fight Bilrach at the end every run.

 

Yea... Its the grind factor that kills it.

 

Its a skill, and theres a grind factor, i think it was somewhat designed to be like a quest, but its really not the same.\

 

Itid be like having to do monkey madness, only you do part one, then do part one and two, then do part one and two and three, then do part 1, 2, 3 5 times before moving on to part 4.

 

Itid still technically be questlike, but it would be [developmentally delayed]ed as all hell.

[Silvertaler]

I can't believe I have to do this right now. :rolleyes:

 

Questing has nothing to do with your skills.

 

What game are we playing again?

 

During quests you don't use skills because you have to prove yourself, you use skills because things get in your way and you're either skilled enough to get past them or not.

 

Obviously, and you're contradicting your first sentence here.

 

Questing is about living an adventure, contribute to the story of Gielinor and even changing the course of history, not about proving how good you are at x or y skills.

 

And our avatars are just supposed to inherently know how to figure all of that out? No, that's why we train SKILLS.

 

You don't get to do any of that in Dungeoneering.

 

Dungeoneering actually contains ALL aspects of questing, and more. If you can prove to me that there are no puzzles, boss fights, or lore in the dungeoneering skill, you win the argument. PROTIP: You can't.

 

You're just getting past rooms until you reach a final room where you defeat the boss, then repeat over and over again the same process.

 

Nope, that's not all there is to it. You've never touched the skill, obviously.

 

In the long run, it's grinding, what makes it just another skill.

 

No one's arguing that it's not a skill.

 

There is no plot involved, no addition to the story of the game.

Yeah, you're right. I guess the fact that we're pursuing a Mahjarrat deep underneath a castle that belonged to the Dragonkin to try and prevent him from freeing Zamorak is proof that there's no plot or addition to the storyline of Runescape. :rolleyes: Maybe you should've researched a bit before you made such an asinine claim.

 

When it's said Dungeoneering adds up to Runescape, it's the area itself and its history that add up, something that has been there before you even trained the skill, not your actions inside the dungeon.

 

You're contradicting yourself again. Dungeoneering doesn't add to the storyline of Runescape, but it does? Our actions inside the dungeon are going to have a HUGE effect on the future of Runescape. We're (presumably) trying to stop an all-powerful Mahjarrat from FREEING A GOD WHICH WILL ENACT THE EDICTS OF GUTHIX, DESTROYING US ALL. I'd say our actions inside the dungeon are pretty damn relevant.

 

During quests, it's your actions that make the difference, and that fact alone makes the two things very distant.

 

See above.

 

It doesn't take a genious to understand that.

 

You're absolutely right.

I don't contradict myself. You just pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. They're two different things. You need skills in quests as much as you need gear and as much as you sometimes need knowledge about areas in order to come prepared. They're tools. When you want to build a new house, you don't build it because you wanted to use your tools, you build it because you wanna live inside of it. In the same way, when you quest you don't do it on the purpose of using your skills, you do it on the purpose of living the adventure it has to offer, or you can be of those who do it on the purpose of getting the reward. It's that simple. If you can't understand that, or if you once again pretend not to, there's no point in continuing this argument.

 

About Dungeoneering, I didn't say it has no plot but it does. You're just twisting my words around pityfully trying to ridicule me - why do you attack on me rather than on my points? I said the AREA of dungeoneering had a story but not the SKILL you practice inside of it, and I made that pretty clear so don't play stupid. You just avoided the whole argument for the sake of attacking on my credibility.

[999134]

IMO there should be no combat level requirements for any quests

if a level 3 wants to do wgs go ahead and let him try.

[Sir_Kurity]

IMO there should be no combat level requirements for any quests

if a level 3 wants to do wgs go ahead and let him try.

 

:thumbup:

 

There shouldnt even be that many skill requirements, there should be alternatives around except in some circumstances.

 

The quests would be JUST AS HARD, you just wouldnt have to grind skills as much for them.

[Will H]

I think that we need to make it clear that if Jagex wants to put in quests with higher requirements than we have now, they must first make sure that the effort to get to those levels must be engaging and enjoyable. I do not want to have to grind to get to a quest. I want the time I spend to get to, say, level 85 hunter to be nearly as fun as the time I spend completing the quest that requires it. If it isn't, it should either be removed from the requirements, or new content should be released for hunter first.

Or, there should already be a quest that requires a similar, slightly-lower level. For example, WGS required 75 magic before Love Story came out and required 77 magic. A later quest might reasonably require level 80.

 

I strongly disagree. It's the bit between the quests that shouldn't be a chore, because we're talking about the meat of the game. Love Story only really requires level 75 because you can just use mind bombs, but I disliked the task of getting Magic to 75 in the first place. Alching and Humidifying for a long time bored me out of my skull, as it does to anyone. If they released a quest that gave me enough xp to get me from the highest magic requirement of a quest before WGS, whatever that was, to a level reasonably close to level 75, or even better a new way to train magic that was engaging, I'd be satisfied.

 

Another one of my gripes was the unpottable 69 Smithing requirement of Rocking Out.

[Michael]

I'd be happier if the next Grandmaster quest was totally skill based with no combat involved.

[tortilliachp]

I think that we need to make it clear that if Jagex wants to put in quests with higher requirements than we have now, they must first make sure that the effort to get to those levels must be engaging and enjoyable. I do not want to have to grind to get to a quest. I want the time I spend to get to, say, level 85 hunter to be nearly as fun as the time I spend completing the quest that requires it. If it isn't, it should either be removed from the requirements, or new content should be released for hunter first.

Or, there should already be a quest that requires a similar, slightly-lower level. For example, WGS required 75 magic before Love Story came out and required 77 magic. A later quest might reasonably require level 80.

 

I strongly disagree. It's the bit between the quests that shouldn't be a chore, because we're talking about the meat of the game. Love Story only really requires level 75 because you can just use mind bombs, but I disliked the task of getting Magic to 75 in the first place. Alching and Humidifying for a long time bored me out of my skull, as it does to anyone. If they released a quest that gave me enough xp to get me from the highest magic requirement of a quest before WGS, whatever that was, to a level reasonably close to level 75, or even better a new way to train magic that was engaging, I'd be satisfied.

 

Another one of my gripes was the unpottable 69 Smithing requirement of Rocking Out.

 

you're basically saying "I wanna do everything with just quests" just as pures complain "we wanna do everything without *insert stat here*

 

jagex' opinion on the matter, is clear, logical and reasonable: you do your thing, they'll do theirs. it's better for the game if things are integrated, making it a single game, rather than a bunch of minigames stuck together on one account (i'm not implying the old word for "activities" here).

 

suck it up, any level based rpg is based on playing time to progress, rather than only inherent skill. get the levels, or you don't get the content. it's the MAIN MECHANIC OF THE GAME. if that's too much to grasp, play a non-level-based game, don't complain here about a part of the game we all know is there, and is the driving force of it. if you don't want to throw balls bowling, play darts, don't complain about having to throw a ball in bowling.

[Quyneax]

I'd like some quests to have 85ish requirements some day, just so we quest cape owners can say we had to get more xp than those 99 [random skill] people. Other than that I'd like the puzzles to be hard and instanced/varied somehow (to prevent guide reading).

 

I hope there will be a massive boss fight in the next mahjarrat quest where the mahjarrat do the the actual fighting and you actually have to sneak behind and steal the Staff of Armadyl from Lucien's hands or something, while he is duelling Azzanandra.

[Obtaurian]

I'd like some quests to have 85ish requirements some day, just so we quest cape owners can say we had to get more xp than those 99 [random skill] people. Other than that I'd like the puzzles to be hard and instanced/varied somehow (to prevent guide reading).

 

I hope there will be a massive boss fight in the next mahjarrat quest where the mahjarrat do the the actual fighting and you actually have to sneak behind and steal the Staff of Armadyl from Lucien's hands or something, while he is duelling Azzanandra.

 

Sadly, I think that's the most likely scenario. <_<

[Emmentail]

Unless we get boosted by the Stone of Jas again I really don't see us fighting Lucien ever.. They've made him too strong.

 

As for skill levels.. I think 90 would be an acceptable cap, for say a really really high level quest. However not for something like Nomads Req, which was a piss poor attempt at a "Grandmaster Quest".

 

A quest should not be 3 puzzles and a hard boss. I still don't know anything about Nomad or who he had deserted or whatever.

 

More quests like MEP2 please!

[Locke_Superbus]

I really don't see us fighting Lucien, any other marjarrat, dragonkin etc etc ever.. They've made them too mary sue.

 

fixed for the truth

[Troacctid]

I'd like some quests to have 85ish requirements some day, just so we quest cape owners can say we had to get more xp than those 99 [random skill] people.

According the RS Wiki, the quest cape already requires 3,410,703 experience not including the extra levels needed to meet the combat level requirement. So that's already more than a 99.

[Silvertaler]

I don't contradict myself. You just pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. They're two different things. You need skills in quests as much as you need gear and as much as you sometimes need knowledge about areas in order to come prepared. They're tools. When you want to build a new house, you don't build it because you wanted to use your tools, you build it because you wanna live inside of it. In the same way, when you quest you don't do it on the purpose of using your skills, you do it on the purpose of living the adventure it has to offer, or you can be of those who do it on the purpose of getting the reward. It's that simple. If you can't understand that, or if you once again pretend not to, there's no point in continuing this argument.

 

About Dungeoneering, I didn't say it has no plot but it does. You're just twisting my words around pityfully trying to ridicule me - why do you attack on me rather than on my points? I said the AREA of dungeoneering had a story but not the SKILL you practice inside of it, and I made that pretty clear so don't play stupid. You just avoided the whole argument for the sake of attacking on my credibility.

 

Wow, did you seriously just completely avoid each and every one of my points and tell me that all I did was attack you? Please read and re-read my post. As you've only made one argument in this post, I'll respond to that:

 

I never once said that the purpose of doing quests was to test your skills (though that is certainly a good reason to). You're arguing with me about something I didn't even contradict.

 

Now I'm going to attack you personally: Why do people with IQ's lower than 10 insist on not only posting, but arguing with me, too? Seems like I have to do this every other day. :rolleyes:

 

 

I was under the impression that it was to uncover the lore of Runescape while applying our acquired skills in ways that integrate our characters into the various storylines of the game.

 

Still not contradicting yourself?

 

Then let's see about the part earlier when you reply to me saying "I never said Dungeoneering wasn't a skill":

 

You're literally [developmentally delayed]ed if you think Dungeoneering is just a skill.

 

Also claimed it was the biggest quest in game at the beginning of that thread but I don't need to quote that, do I...

 

You're done proving me you have no clue about what questing is. I paid my first membership on the purpose of questing and went through the whole thing by myself so really, avoid trying to enlighten me on what a quest is when you know nothing of it. " :rolleyes: "

 

More quests like MEP2 please!

 

What we really need is quests like Legends' Quest, Desert Treasure, While Guthix Sleeps & company. The hardcore style quests that go like "here's your mission, have fun finding out how to do it yourself" kind of quests. In the recent quests, NPC's lead you around too much.

[Sir_Kurity]

I'd like some quests to have 85ish requirements some day, just so we quest cape owners can say we had to get more xp than those 99 [random skill] people. Other than that I'd like the puzzles to be hard and instanced/varied somehow (to prevent guide reading).

 

Sadly, I think that's the most likely scenario. <_<

 

Really, i dont think quests should have epic high skill requirements.

 

You should not have to grind 90 herblore or similar skill just to do a high level quest, it should have low requirements BUT be a hard quest that would be inadvisable to do at a low level.

[elucin8er]

I think that we need to make it clear that if Jagex wants to put in quests with higher requirements than we have now, they must first make sure that the effort to get to those levels must be engaging and enjoyable. I do not want to have to grind to get to a quest. I want the time I spend to get to, say, level 85 hunter to be nearly as fun as the time I spend completing the quest that requires it. If it isn't, it should either be removed from the requirements, or new content should be released for hunter first.

 

 

If people want to get level 99 or 120 in a skill, that's fine with me, but don't make the cape that's all about getting the most out of the game involve gut-wrenchily boring training sessions for days on end.

 

I agree with this. That's why I'm happy for any Slayer level requirement, any farming requirement, any dung requirements etc - you get the idea. I love quests, I don't use guides, I get involved and feel accomplished when finishing them. I do feel more accomplished however when I finish a rather difficult quest which uses an array of my higher level stats, but in regards to Will's post, yes the stats required definetly should be enjoyable.

[Obtaurian]

Silvertaler, we seem to be getting off track, so let's go back to the original argument:

 

I missed this first time I posted but really, if you think Dungeoneering = questing, you missed the whole point of questing really...

 

So here we find the two core issues:

 

1. What is questing?

2. Is the Dungeoneering skill similar to questing?

 

From what I've gathered, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you feel that skills should have nothing to do with quests and that Dungeoneering is nothing like questing, correct? How would you define questing?

 

In regards to Dungeoneering, I believe you're wrong due to the fact that Dungeoneering DOES contain many of the core elements of questing; that is, Dungeoneering presents a challenge or task for the player to complete, offers puzzles, boss fights, and a TON of lore (more lore than most quests, actually). However, Dungeoneering is still a skill, so it also contains levels and grinding.

 

I'll wait for you to post your definition of questing before I continue.

 

EDIT:

 

I'd like some quests to have 85ish requirements some day, just so we quest cape owners can say we had to get more xp than those 99 [random skill] people. Other than that I'd like the puzzles to be hard and instanced/varied somehow (to prevent guide reading).

 

Sadly, I think that's the most likely scenario. <_<

 

Really, i dont think quests should have epic high skill requirements.

 

You should not have to grind 90 herblore or similar skill just to do a high level quest, it should have low requirements BUT be a hard quest that would be inadvisable to do at a low level.

 

I was actually responding to the second part of his post. Sorry for not clarifying.

[Silvertaler]

Silvertaler, we seem to be getting off track, so let's go back to the original argument:

 

I missed this first time I posted but really, if you think Dungeoneering = questing, you missed the whole point of questing really...

 

So here we find the two core issues:

 

1. What is questing?

2. Is the Dungeoneering skill similar to questing?

 

From what I've gathered, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you feel that skills should have nothing to do with quests and that Dungeoneering is nothing like questing, correct? How would you define questing?

 

In regards to Dungeoneering, I believe you're wrong due to the fact that Dungeoneering DOES contain many of the core elements of questing; that is, Dungeoneering presents a challenge or task for the player to complete, offers puzzles, boss fights, and a TON of lore (more lore than most quests, actually). However, Dungeoneering is still a skill, so it also contains levels and grinding.

 

I'll wait for you to post your definition of questing before I continue.

I have already sort of defined what a quest was in the previous posts. You're so focussed on getting your point across that you don't even read what I have to say. So here's an all-in-one post so you quit assuming I contradict myself or don't explain anything.

 

#1 What is questing?

 

The two common points between all quests are first, the fact they all have a plot, second the fact that you eventually help somebody in the process: you become a hero. Let's consider these are the "plot" factor and the "help" factor - keep this in mind for later. In quests you're solving a plot which either involves helping someone, or putting someone in advantage over someone else. Some quest series start out by quests that don't immediately make you a hero, such as the Rellekka series or the White Knight series that start out by recruitment quests; some other quest series start out by quests that don't immediately have a clear plot, like Nomad's Requiem seems to be. But you can't judge those by themselves, since the whole series count as one big quest that got cut down to smaller ones.

Sometimes you help out a single person, like in Cook's Assistant or Love Story, sometimes you help out entire factions like in Dealing With Scarabas or While Guthix Sleeps; and sometimes you don't really know who you're helping but you still help people in the process, like in Desert Treasure where you end up helping the ice troll family and later Azzanadra, the mahjarrat. In Love Story, Zenevivia defines questers like this herself, she calls them the good doers if I remember well. As a secondary effect, you end up having an impact on Gielinor's history during many quests: this is the consequence of them having plots. For instance, during the Varrock quest series you help fend off an attack by the undead, which could have been much more dangerous if you were not there to help.

 

 

#2 Is Dungeoneering a quest?

 

Having defined the word "quest", I guess it makes it clear why I believe Dungeoneering isn't a quest. I do get where you're coming from: Daemonheim has a backstory and it's apparently related to the Dragonkin, a faction that will probably have some importance in the sequel of While Guthix Sleeps. But the skill itself has almost nothing of a quest: nobody asks you to go in there and explore the dungeons for them, and what you do inside the dungeons has little to no impact on the history of Runescape or on any of the NPC's. You go in there to explore on your own will, for your own pleasure. It's like most minigames: Fist of Guthix or Tears of Guthix take place in areas that have their own history, but whatever you do in there is only meaningful for yourself. You're not solving any plot or helping anybody. See how TOG was there long before While Guthix Sleeps, and although the latter ended up in the same caves whatever you did on TOG still had no impact on it. In the same way, there will probably be a quest directly related to Daemonheim, but whatever you'll have done in the dungeons is likely to be of little importance for the quest. Maybe you'll need to unlock a dungeon or get to a certain level, but going there and doing a dungeon right now won't have any importance for the quest besides for the experience you'll get. On top of that, the skill is way too distant from the entire game, I don't think I'm the only one who's got the feeling of playing a different game whenever I go down those dungeons.

 

 

#3 Are quests about testing your skills?

 

Once again, my defition of quest helps prove that quests aren't about testing your skills. Quests are about solving a plot and helping someone in the process. And Runescape being a game with a huge load of content, you'll obviously need tools for it. Skills are one of the tools. You need 75 Magic for While Guthix Sleeps as much as you need gear and as much as you need some brains - if you're like me and take pleasure doing quests by yourself, that is. Once again, when you build a house, you don't do it on the purpose of using your tools, you do it on the purpose of getting something out of it, may it be living in there or selling it. In the same way, you don't do quests on the purpose of testing your skills, nobody goes like "hey I feel like doing Herblore, I'll go do a quest", that's silly. You do quests in the purpose of getting something out of them. For me, it's fun, for some others, it's the rewards.

This is also why I believe quests shouldn't have high skill requirements. Some people believe skill requirements make quests harder, but that's not true. It doesn't make them harder, it makes the process of unlocking them harder. I'm not questing when I'm training for a skill requirement. Players should keep the freedom of choosing wether they'd like to focus more on questing or on skilling. It's normal the two activities are linked - some skills require quests to be trained efficiently or even to be trained at all, and most quests have their skill requirements; they're in the same game after all. But none should depend too much on the other.

[Will H]

I think that we need to make it clear that if Jagex wants to put in quests with higher requirements than we have now, they must first make sure that the effort to get to those levels must be engaging and enjoyable. I do not want to have to grind to get to a quest. I want the time I spend to get to, say, level 85 hunter to be nearly as fun as the time I spend completing the quest that requires it. If it isn't, it should either be removed from the requirements, or new content should be released for hunter first.

Or, there should already be a quest that requires a similar, slightly-lower level. For example, WGS required 75 magic before Love Story came out and required 77 magic. A later quest might reasonably require level 80.

 

I strongly disagree. It's the bit between the quests that shouldn't be a chore, because we're talking about the meat of the game. Love Story only really requires level 75 because you can just use mind bombs, but I disliked the task of getting Magic to 75 in the first place. Alching and Humidifying for a long time bored me out of my skull, as it does to anyone. If they released a quest that gave me enough xp to get me from the highest magic requirement of a quest before WGS, whatever that was, to a level reasonably close to level 75, or even better a new way to train magic that was engaging, I'd be satisfied.

 

Another one of my gripes was the unpottable 69 Smithing requirement of Rocking Out.

 

you're basically saying "I wanna do everything with just quests" just as pures complain "we wanna do everything without *insert stat here*

 

jagex' opinion on the matter, is clear, logical and reasonable: you do your thing, they'll do theirs. it's better for the game if things are integrated, making it a single game, rather than a bunch of minigames stuck together on one account (i'm not implying the old word for "activities" here).

 

suck it up, any level based rpg is based on playing time to progress, rather than only inherent skill. get the levels, or you don't get the content. it's the MAIN MECHANIC OF THE GAME. if that's too much to grasp, play a non-level-based game, don't complain here about a part of the game we all know is there, and is the driving force of it. if you don't want to throw balls bowling, play darts, don't complain about having to throw a ball in bowling.

 

 

If you are just saying 'get levels', I'm fine with that. If you are saying 'get levels' and mean 'grinding', I'm not. Some skills have activities that are time consuming, but not boring, such as Stealing Creation, Soul Wars or Pest Control. Even skills like Slayer and Dungeoneering are based on trying to avoid being repetitive, hence why they are so popular. I wouldn't mind if they put 85+ level requirements of those skills in a quest. On the other hand, training Magic, Runecrafting, Fletching, Smithing or Hunter as they are best trained is excruciatingly boring, at at the current state of affairs, should not be a big requirement for a quest. Do you follow now?

[Obtaurian]

1. So you agree with me that quests involve some sort of challenge or goal for the player to complete. See what happens when we go back to the start and target each point specifically? Turns out we were arguing over something we agree on. However, I go a bit further and define certain "core" elements of questing (problems to be solved, puzzles, boss fights, uncovering of lore). These elements are not present in every quest, but they're common enough to be considered.

 

2. I disagree. Your main argument is that the lore in Dungeoneering is largely self-containd; it does not affect anything outside of Daemonheim and may only be a small distraction in future quests (such as using your Dungeoneering level to unlock a dungeon). The lore in Dungeoneering is directly related to the Mysteries of the Mahjarrat storyline, and the conclusion of the Dungeoneering skill will have a huge impact on the rest of Runescape.

 

SPOILERS:

 

In Bilrach's Chronicles we learn that the "Rift" at the bottom of Daemonheim is actually the door to where Zamorak is locked up. Bilrach intends to free Zamorak into the world, which would enact the Edicts of Guthix, destroying us all. As I'm sure you remember, Azzanadra intends to free Zaros into the world, so the fact that we have two all-powerful Mahjarrat Generals who are planning to unleash their gods, plus the fact that another Mahjarrat is intending to BECOME a god makes the Dungeoneering skill pretty important in the grand scheme of things.

 

In conclusion, you're wrong that Dungeoneering lore is self-contained and does affect anything outside of itself.

 

3. I haven't argued that skills are the core reason for questing (but I do believe that the drive to test one's skills -- whether in the real world or Runescape -- is a good reason to go questing or adventuring), so I don't know why we keep talking about this. I believe that skills are an important ASPECT of questing because our avatars cannot just inherently know how to go about helping people. This is why I believe that high-level skill requirements should eventually come about; we'll inevitably find some problem in Runescape that requires an expert in certain skills to solve. It's only logical.