Jagex community events are NEVER anything more than a few community managers logging into their Jmod accounts and playing with some scapers.

other games have actual events.

 

Then what about...

Easter?

Christmas?

Halloween?

Thanksgiving?

Recent Hati Wolf thing?

Cryptic Clue Fest?

Faruqs Tools?

 

Little less effort, but still planned:

First day of spring

Jagex Clan Cup

RuneScape 10th Anniversary

how many of those are community events?

Holiday events and hati wolf are kinda done out of the self interest of the players.

Faruq's tools was just poorly implemented. It woulda been so much better if they implemented the tools in every day items.

instead of making you go out to alkarid or keep a few of these items in your bank.

 

the jagex clan cup and 10th anniversary events were kinda jokes.

player driven events have

(The player hosted clan FFA with divine for trade price event was much more popular than any event Jagex has ever hosted)

 

I do not understand the negativity towards Jagex organising events like this. They are simply trying to be a presence in the community and bring the Runescape community together. You will find that that is something which will be pursued greatly this year (community involvement). It is a positive thing and I for one commend their efforts.

 

 

I have to agree. People think Jagex does nothing special compared to other companies? Psh, such a fallacy. Maybe compared to Blizzard, but they have a huge budget which means they can dedicate many more staff, as well as not having many staff tied up in weekly updates who can be diverted to making new content for an event.

 

I promise you, go to a majority of MMO's and they won't even have a community team or staff members doing anything in the game. Many of them who do try at events do things very similar to Runescape, but very very rarely anything more.

 

Jagex are doing their best to play with the community within their budget and timeframes. If they didn't think they were doing as good as they can, they would try something else. Just because an event isn't for you, doesn't mean it isn't for others. Considering a majority of this forum's voices (but not readers) are higher level players who will rarely get involved in events which don't give rewards, you can't expect a positive reaction here.

yes RS is less staffed than blizzard (~400 employees vs ~4600 employees)

but bottom line is Jagex' work is still unimpressive.

 

of the 400 employees, ~50 are developers.

We get 3 updates a month, 36 updates a year.

 

Thus, each update takes 1 dev an average of 1.4 years to produce.

That is a complete joke.

 

I mean a few updates I can understand, it taking more than 1 dev, more than 1.4 years to produce.

Dungeoneering, and WGS to make (but remember Jagex's dungeoneering team is only about 4 game devs)

 

I can understand Nomad's requiem taking a single game dev on the order of 1.4 years to produce

 

But the vast majority quests require trivial amounts of coding.

Hati wolf?

Extreme potions?

 

the amount of coding that goes into those two updates shouldn't take more than 15 minutes.

I have to agree. People think Jagex does nothing special compared to other companies? Psh, such a fallacy. Maybe compared to Blizzard, but they have a huge budget which means they can dedicate many more staff, as well as not having many staff tied up in weekly updates who can be diverted to making new content for an event.

 

I promise you, go to a majority of MMO's and they won't even have a community team or staff members doing anything in the game. Many of them who do try at events do things very similar to Runescape, but very very rarely anything more.

 

Jagex are doing their best to play with the community within their budget and timeframes. If they didn't think they were doing as good as they can, they would try something else. Just because an event isn't for you, doesn't mean it isn't for others. Considering a majority of this forum's voices (but not readers) are higher level players who will rarely get involved in events which don't give rewards, you can't expect a positive reaction here.

Grimy mentioning reward just a example of a way to attract people to the event. Now he has said that he would come if Revs were spawned even if reward was 0, and i would too. We're two high levels.

 

It's not something for me or Grimy, because we're not afraid of Revs. I think fear of Revs is a factor. Players who are afraid of revs would not dare to fight them. Now through this event it gives them chance to "Banish" them, so yes that's exiciting.

 

But what about us who aren't afraid of revs, and who have killed revs many time? How is it fun when we're barely being challenged? 30+players with a Jmod going around killing 1-3 revs in 3 seconds. Then move around more...

 

But like Low has said, event has not begun yet, so we will see. I am just saying that if it will go the way i think it will, then it's neither fun or challenging for me to take part in. And i am not against Jagex. I am just giving feedback on how they can make someone like me join the event. :thumbup:

The thing is Dire_wolf, if they were to spawn loads of revs, it would make the event more unattractive to the lower players. It's a hard balance to strike, so Jagex have to cater to one or the other in this situation, but as you say, we don't actually know what they will be doing.

 

Grimy, sorry, but you know next to nothing of coding or how Jagex organises it's staff, so saying something is a complete joke and unimpressive is itself a complete joke. A team of developers don't just sit there with a blank canvas and create an update from scratch, they will get designers designing it, then they will create it, it may go back to the designers, back to the coders, then to QA and then back to the coders and so forth. It isn't a cut and dry mathematical equation. Developers will be spread and allocated to where needed. Mods aren't going to tinker in-game any more due to the amount of ranting that will come of it and any accidents that could happen in the game now.

 

I find it very hash to call something pathetic when you have no clue how it works and how much work goes into it, all because it isn't catered to you personally.

The thing is Dire_wolf, if they were to spawn loads of revs, it would make the event more unattractive to the lower players. It's a hard balance to strike, so Jagex have to cater to one or the other in this situation, but as you say, we don't actually know what they will be doing.

 

Grimy, sorry, but you know next to nothing of coding or how Jagex organises it's staff, so saying something is a complete joke and unimpressive is itself a complete joke. A team of developers don't just sit there with a blank canvas and create an update from scratch, they will get designers designing it, then they will create it, it may go back to the designers, back to the coders, then to QA and then back to the coders and so forth. It isn't a cut and dry mathematical equation. Developers will be spread and allocated to where needed. Mods aren't going to tinker in-game any more due to the amount of ranting that will come of it and any accidents that could happen in the game now.

 

I find it very hash to call something pathetic when you have no clue how it works and how much work goes into it, all because it isn't catered to you personally.

wait, just because I don't work for Jagex doesn't mean I don't have coding experience.

And no, I don't know how they organize their staff.

But I do know that about 50 of the 400 ish jagex employees are game devs, as Jagex has released that information.

And I know order of magnitude, of how long updates SHOULD take.

 

it's quite possible that it's not the fault of an individual developer but bad infrastructure altogether.

But either way it's not a good thing.

 

I mean honestly Danq.

If Jagex told you that the Hati wolf update took 1 game dev 1.4 years to make, would you believe them?

To just assume that we can't make order of magnitude assumptions on how long updates should take, is simply naive.

 

Congratulations! Your Trolling level is now 65.

 

You can now Flame other users.

 

I thought you blocked my posts hypocrite?

The thing is Dire_wolf, if they were to spawn loads of revs, it would make the event more unattractive to the lower players. It's a hard balance to strike, so Jagex have to cater to one or the other in this situation...

Well Dan, how about this?

 

4 Spawn spots - 4 Jmods

Spawn 1 and 2 will be spots in low wildy for low level players to go to. Monsters: Imps, goblins, pyrefiends, Hobgoblins, Vampire, Werewolf, Cyclops/hillgiant, Demons

 

 

Spawn 3 and 4 will be in High wildy for high level players. Monsters: Orks, Knights, Rev Dragons, Dark beasts, and all other bad ass revs.

 

 

Jagex could take that kind of approach. What do you think Dan?

The thing is Dire_wolf, if they were to spawn loads of revs, it would make the event more unattractive to the lower players. It's a hard balance to strike, so Jagex have to cater to one or the other in this situation...

Well Dan, how about this?

 

4 Spawn spots - 4 Jmods

Spawn 1 and 2 will be spots in low wildy for low level players to go to. Monsters: Imps, goblins, pyrefiends, Hobgoblins, Vampire, Werewolf, Cyclops/hillgiant, Demons

 

 

Spawn 3 and 4 will be in High wildy for high level players. Monsters: Orks, Knights, Rev Dragons, Dark beasts, and all other bad ass revs.

 

 

Jagex could take that kind of approach. What do you think Dan?

 

I think Jagex just wants to do this as a community event and not something special that takes time and/or effort to do. It's just for fun, for people who want to meet and interact with the J team (like people have been calling for for years)

wait, just because I don't work for Jagex doesn't mean I don't have coding experience.

 

Steering is a part of driving a car, and I can steer, therefore I can drive!

 

You don't know what effort is put in making a game just because you have coding experience...

 

This is an event like any other, just organized by a few JaGeX employees.

Why should it be better as the ones by players?

I think Jagex just wants to do this as a community event and not something special that takes time and/or effort to do. It's just for fun, for people who want to meet and interact with the J team (like people have been calling for for years)

Poor interaction in that case :P First time i was at a Jagex event, there was so many people. And i called Jagex moderators, but they never replied. :-?

wait, just because I don't work for Jagex doesn't mean I don't have coding experience.

 

Steering is a part of driving a car, and I can steer, therefore I can drive!

 

You don't know what effort is put in making a game just because you have coding experience...

 

This is an event like any other, just organized by a few JaGeX employees.

Why should it be better as the ones by players?

I mean sure, I'll humor your analogy.

I can steer, doesn't mean I can drive.

I can code, doesn't mean I can code a video game.

But I CAN estimate how long it takes to finish a project.

You don't need to drive a car to have a rough idea of how long it takes to drive from the east coast to the west.

 

as to your other question.

because, as Jagex employees, they have access to more resources and abilities than the players.

they have the ability to make it better than the ones by players.

They just fail, and don't.

wait, just because I don't work for Jagex doesn't mean I don't have coding experience.

 

Steering is a part of driving a car, and I can steer, therefore I can drive!

 

You don't know what effort is put in making a game just because you have coding experience...

 

This is an event like any other, just organized by a few JaGeX employees.

Why should it be better as the ones by players?

I mean sure, I'll humor your analogy.

I can steer, doesn't mean I can drive.

I can code, doesn't mean I can code a video game.

But I CAN estimate how long it takes to finish a project.

You don't need to drive a car to have a rough idea of how long it takes to drive from the east coast to the west.

 

as to your other question.

because, as Jagex employees, they have access to more resources and abilities than the players.

they have the ability to make it better than the ones by players.

They just fail, and don't.

 

Are you sure you have enough knowledge about the preproduction, 3D content, animations and QA to estimate how long it should take?

 

And just because they have the resources means they should use them for a community event?

An interesting concept..

 

 

 

If revenants were actually a challenge!

Let's be honest here - since none of you code for Jagex, no one is a final authoritative source for how long updates actually take. However, just because you aren't an absolute authority doesn't mean your other experiences (coding, basic knowledge of computer science, etc, which grimy has experience with) can't give you a more realistic opinion than people who have had much less experience.

 

This "update", to me, is really half-baked. It's a continuation of their pitiful attempt at forced "emergent" gameplay.

Let's be honest here - since none of you code for Jagex, no one is a final authoritative source for how long updates actually take. However, just because you aren't an absolute authority doesn't mean your other experiences (coding, basic knowledge of computer science, etc, which grimy has experience with) can't give you a more realistic opinion than people who have had much less experience.

 

This "update", to me, is really half-baked. It's a continuation of their pitiful attempt at forced "emergent" gameplay.

 

That is correct, but just because an opinion is more realistic doesn't mean it close to the truth.

Let's be honest here - since none of you code for Jagex, no one is a final authoritative source for how long updates actually take. However, just because you aren't an absolute authority doesn't mean your other experiences (coding, basic knowledge of computer science, etc, which grimy has experience with) can't give you a more realistic opinion than people who have had much less experience.

 

This "update", to me, is really half-baked. It's a continuation of their pitiful attempt at forced "emergent" gameplay.

 

That is correct, but just because an opinion is more realistic doesn't mean it close to the truth.

 

What? I don't even.

That is correct, but just because an opinion is more realistic doesn't mean it close to the truth.

 

Maybe this makes it easier.

That is correct, but just because an opinion is more realistic doesn't mean it close to the truth.

 

Maybe this makes it easier.

 

That is correct, but because an opinion is more realistic does mean it's closeR to the truth.

That is correct, but just because an opinion is more realistic doesn't mean it close to the truth.

 

Maybe this makes it easier.

 

That is correct, but because an opinion is more realistic does mean it's closeR to the truth.

 

Indeed, it might either be this:

 

Or this:

 

Which one do you think represents this situation the best? Or is there another alternative? We don't know, therefore we can't conclude anything.

That is correct, but just because an opinion is more realistic doesn't mean it close to the truth.

 

Maybe this makes it easier.

I'm sorry Riemis.

I've never lived life in your shoes.

 

So I can't say this with certainty.

But I'm pretty confident that you're stupid.

Actually, it's not because you're a game developper that the only thing you have to do is code.

 

A few of the things they need to do:

 

- Biggest task, implementing game code

- Another big task, coming up with storylines and coming up with new content

 

- Fixing all the bugs that get send by the players.

- Working closely together with 2D/3D artists, if something is wrong, change it.

- Rewriting code after it gets back from QA

 

And even though a projects code can be ready, it could be that it still needs to wait for the graphics team to complete their task.

Actually, it's not because your a game developper that the only thing you have to do is code.

 

A few of the things they need to do:

 

- Biggest task, implementing game code

- Another big task, coming up with storylines and coming up with new content

 

- Fixing all the bugs that get send by the players.

- Working closely togheter with 2D/3D artists, if something is wrong, change it.

- Rewriting code after it gets back from QA

 

And even though a projects code can be ready, it could be that it still needs to wait for the graphics team to complete their task.

So they spend 1 month writing a bit of code.

1 month waiting for the code to come back from QA/graphics/etc

 

what do they do in the second month, code something else right?

 

presumably if they average X pieces of code per month, they're going to output 12X pieces of code per year.

Even if they have to wait 1 month for that code to come back from Q/A

 

that or they actually are just twiddling their thumbs every other month.

Actually, it's not because your a game developper that the only thing you have to do is code.

 

A few of the things they need to do:

 

- Biggest task, implementing game code

- Another big task, coming up with storylines and coming up with new content

 

- Fixing all the bugs that get send by the players.

- Working closely togheter with 2D/3D artists, if something is wrong, change it.

- Rewriting code after it gets back from QA

 

And even though a projects code can be ready, it could be that it still needs to wait for the graphics team to complete their task.

So they spend 1 month writing a bit of code.

1 month waiting for the code to come back from QA/graphics/etc

 

what do they do in the second month, code something else right?

 

presumably if they average X pieces of code per month, they're going to output 12X pieces of code per year.

Even if they have to wait 1 month for that code to come back from Q/A

 

that or they actually are just twiddling their thumbs every other month.

 

No, given the updates a month here, all I'm saying is that they:

- Fixe a huge number of bugs

- Come up with 3 updates a month

- Create storylines

 

That's done with 50 game developpers in a month, now I know it's hard to think of good ideas to implement.

 

So I'm guessing around these numbers for an average amount of time it takes to create.

- 1 Week for coming up with the idea, creating all the storylines and making sure everyone knows that they need to do.

- 1 - 2 Weeks for coding and implementing all the game code, while testing it too. (This is not gameplay testing, but pure code testing, takes a while too).

- Now lets say, it's about 1 week in QA, in which they can fix bugs and other small fixes, or work a bit longer on the story line or game code.

- Then they have another week for rewriting code after it comes from QA, or coming up with new ideas if I doesn't please them.

 

Now all of this is when everything would be running smoothly, but if you have some game creating experience, you'd know it isn't always sunshine.

 

If 3D models are loaded in, they need to retest their code to make sure it still runs smoothly.

 

There's just so much to do, so I wouldn't be just saying they are slow.

 

Edit: And this is for 3 separete updates.

Jagex should just quit updating and trying to hold community events, then no one will have anything to [bleep] about.

 

I like it.

 

Dude, know what'd be sweet? You'd have to instance this or make a special area for it....but PACK the wilde with revs spawning all over the place, with the chaos elemental wandering around causing havock. Severely nerf the stats of the chaos elemental and revs too (note: by severely, I don't mean tone down.)

 

The mods spawn a bunch of specialized rings of life first, which tele you if your about to die (such as the mysterious strangers in draynor) combined with a phoenix necklace (in case of after tele damage.)

 

Random thought.

Black ops took around a year and a half to make, and Treyarch is smaller than jagex (in fact, Treyarch has about HALF of Jagex's employees).

 

Compare:

Graphics

Sounds

Gameplay

Engine complexity

Bugginess/Quality Control

Physics

Game design/balance

Compatibility with multiple consoles

 

In the past 1.5 years, the major new updates to RS (not tweaks) include:

-- Dungeoneering (large)

----- Which is really only like 5 floor layouts

----- Floor logic

----- Boss design

----- Reward design

----- Very few new monsters

-- Curses (small)

-- Kuradal (small)

-- Thieve's guild (moderate)

-- Herblore Habitat (moderate)

-- Conquest (moderate)

-- Effigies (small amount)

-- GWD (moderate)

-- Hati (small)

-- Elite Diaries (small)

-- Couple quests (large)

 

In comparison, COD:

-- 10+ Map design for multiplayer (moderate)

-- ~10 different normal multiplayer game modes (moderate)

-- ~5-10 Prestige and wager modes (moderate)

-- ~20 levels for singleplayer (large)

-- Extremely detailed graphics for everything listed here (large)

-- Weapon balance/design for 40+ weapons (moderate)

-- Attachment balance/design for ~20 attachments (small)

-- Equipment balance/design for 10+ pieces (small)

-- Killstreak balance/design (small)

-- 4 zombie modes (moderate)

-- AI practice mode (small)

-- Storyline design (large)

-- ~10 hours of gameplay for singleplayer (this is probably on the same order of magnitude of all of the quests in the last 18 months)

-- AI for zombie bots, AI for multiplayer bots, killstreak AIs (large)

-- Complete soundboard (RS's is tiny compared to COD)

-- Theatre mode and recording (large)

-- In-game statistics (these are very thorough)

-- Achievements and Contracts (probably more of these than elite diaries/tasks)

-- Complete leveling system (small)

-- Ability to make a totally custom avatar (small)

-- Significant compatability issues and debugging (large)

 

Graphic quality in a single normal gameplay shot is arguably better and more detailed than anything Jagex has ever produced out of its graphics AND marketing departments.

 

You also have to account for the fact that some of the time that I'm including as Treyarch's development time included things like licensing, marketing (jagex's is a joke compared to black ops marketing), distribution.

 

 

///

So, tell me I don't have a realistic grasp of how slow jagex is with development.

You don't have a realistic grasp of how slow Jagex is with development.

 

Compare the amount of developers, not the amount of employees.

 

By the way, your graphic argument is invalid, as they are being created at the same time as the other things are coded, so they don't take up more time.

And let's not forget they based this game on the same engine they used to create all the Call of Duty games before that, that also takes away a lot of the development time.

 

Also, we've gone to far off-topic, this topic is about the community event, if you want to rant about Jagex being slow developers, make a new topic.