Our_Moon Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm 96 Defence and 91 (have Charms for 95) Summoning. I want to get both to 99. What is the best way to go about doing this? The methods I'm considering are: 1) Cave Crawlers2) Black Dragons3) Black Demons4) Slayer5) Other?? The obvious advantage of Crawlers is the Effigy drop rate, but they wouldn't be great Defence experience and certainly poor Summoning experience without a Steel Titan... Black Dragons have a very good Effigy drop rate, but they offer less Defence/Summoning experience than Black Demons, which have a lower Effigy drop rate... Slayer will be slower everything, so I'm shying away from that because I'm already 99 Slayer. I guess a more concise question is: Black Dragons or Black Demons and why? Is there another method I should be considering? (I WON'T do Ape Atoll Dungeon/Rock Lobs; Black Dragons are at least 65% more efficient than those methods, and I believe--but am not sure that--Black Demons may be better.) Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dex Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I would suggest you get 95 summoning for the iron titan then do waterfiends in chaos tunnel. It is the second best charm rate after rock lobs i think. Also, its a lot of fun spamming iron titan scrolls :grin: Remember to do your weekly familiration too! If you are planning on camping, I would switch to lunar and do npc contact everytime you finish a waterfiend trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our_Moon Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 I would suggest you get 95 summoning for the iron titan then do waterfiends in chaos tunnel. It is the second best charm rate after rock lobs i think. Also, its a lot of fun spamming iron titan scrolls :grin: Remember to do your weekly familiration too! If you are planning on camping, I would switch to lunar and do npc contact everytime you finish a waterfiend trip. Do you know what the exp/hr there is like for combat stats? Also, I lose Effigy drops by doing this... does anyone know if it edges out Black Dragons/Demons overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebri Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 camping waterfiends is also affecient way but since ashes i think black demons are better than them but is nice to switch between them as wfs is also profit and easy to camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dex Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 From what I seen from other players (I never bothered to time myself because i only do this on my slayer task), 180 crims and 9 blues seem to be an average(a low estimate i think) at ct waterfiends. Assuming the ct wfs has the same charm rate as ancient cavern (76% from runewiki site), you will do about 236 kills per hour which equals to 119k defence exp. From Effigyscape, avg kill per hour for black dragons are 185. This translates to 17 blues and 39 crims + 0.63 of an effigy per hour. Rounding your effigy experience to 45k, thats 28k summon exp. Avg kill per hour for black demons are 275. Which equals to 121 crims and 3 blues per hour. Effigy rate is 0.54 per hour which is 24k summon exp per hour. Exp per pack yak pouch = 422.4Exp per geyser titan pouch = 783.2Hence, Waterfiends gives 180x422.4 + 9x783.2=83k worth of charms which takes 6 minutes to run. So summon exp for wfs is 75k per hour. Black dragons gives 39x422.4 +17x783.2 = 30k worth of charms which takes 2 minutes to run. So summon exp for black dragons = 29k+28k(effigy) = 57k summon exp per hour assuming no time taken to unlock effigy. Black demons give 121x422.4 + 3x783.2 = 53k worth of charms which takes 4 minutes to run. So summon exp for black demons = 50k+24k(effigy) = 64k summon exp per hour assuming no time taken to unlock effigy. So accounting for effigy drops, waterfiends are still better summoning exp. Defence exp could not be calculated due to the fact that to get that number of kills for black demon and dragon, you require a cannon which take a chunk of your total exp for range. However, wfs gives a solid 119k def exp per hour. Edit: If you went tl;dr into all the math I did just know that wfs at ct is still the best option for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our_Moon Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 From what I seen from other players (I never bothered to time myself because i only do this on my slayer task), 180 crims and 9 blues seem to be an average(a low estimate i think) at ct waterfiends. Assuming the ct wfs has the same charm rate as ancient cavern (76% from runewiki site), you will do about 236 kills per hour which equals to 119k defence exp. From Effigyscape, avg kill per hour for black dragons are 185. This translates to 17 blues and 39 crims + 0.63 of an effigy per hour. Rounding your effigy experience to 45k, thats 28k summon exp. Avg kill per hour for black demons are 275. Which equals to 121 crims and 3 blues per hour. Effigy rate is 0.54 per hour which is 24k summon exp per hour. Exp per pack yak pouch = 422.4Exp per geyser titan pouch = 783.2Hence, Waterfiends gives 180x422.4 + 9x783.2=83k worth of charms which takes 6 minutes to run. So summon exp for wfs is 75k per hour. Black dragons gives 39x422.4 +17x783.2 = 30k worth of charms which takes 2 minutes to run. So summon exp for black dragons = 29k+28k(effigy) = 57k summon exp per hour assuming no time taken to unlock effigy. Black demons give 121x422.4 + 3x783.2 = 53k worth of charms which takes 4 minutes to run. So summon exp for black demons = 50k+24k(effigy) = 64k summon exp per hour assuming no time taken to unlock effigy. So accounting for effigy drops, waterfiends are still better summoning exp. Defence exp could not be calculated due to the fact that to get that number of kills for black demon and dragon, you require a cannon which take a chunk of your total exp for range. However, wfs gives a solid 119k def exp per hour. Edit: If you went tl;dr into all the math I did just know that wfs at ct is still the best option for you. The math is much appreciated; thanks. I believe Demons are around 80-85k Defence experience/hr, and Dragons are probably less than that. Did you include using an Iron Titan in your 236 kills/hr estimate? Also, you forgot to incorporate the experience gained from completing the Effigy (90k) in your calculations. There's no way I'd ever use an Effigy on Summoning, so again, your rates are slightly off, but hopefully the difference is negligible =p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dex Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Iron titan is included in the kill estimate. It's what makes ct wfs so good. Without it, it's extremely slow and you might as well use ancient cavern. I thought about the experience gained from unlocking effigy half way through my calculations but forgot about it when I got to the end :S Statistically, you should get about 22.5k summon exp from unlocking 2 effigies (4 x 1/8 of getting a summoning unlock for 1 effigy, so spread over a huge sample, 50% of your effigies should have a summonning unlock). Which adds about 7k exp to black dragons and 6k to black demons. If you're not planning on using your lamps on summoning, there's no point camping for effigies. You would end up with 36k summon exp for black dragons and 56k summon exp at black demons per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMC Mate Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 From what I seen from other players (I never bothered to time myself because i only do this on my slayer task), 180 crims and 9 blues seem to be an average(a low estimate i think) at ct waterfiends. Assuming the ct wfs has the same charm rate as ancient cavern (76% from runewiki site), you will do about 236 kills per hour which equals to 119k defence exp. From Effigyscape, avg kill per hour for black dragons are 185. This translates to 17 blues and 39 crims + 0.63 of an effigy per hour. Rounding your effigy experience to 45k, thats 28k summon exp. Avg kill per hour for black demons are 275. Which equals to 121 crims and 3 blues per hour. Effigy rate is 0.54 per hour which is 24k summon exp per hour. Exp per pack yak pouch = 422.4Exp per geyser titan pouch = 783.2Hence, Waterfiends gives 180x422.4 + 9x783.2=83k worth of charms which takes 6 minutes to run. So summon exp for wfs is 75k per hour. Black dragons gives 39x422.4 +17x783.2 = 30k worth of charms which takes 2 minutes to run. So summon exp for black dragons = 29k+28k(effigy) = 57k summon exp per hour assuming no time taken to unlock effigy. Black demons give 121x422.4 + 3x783.2 = 53k worth of charms which takes 4 minutes to run. So summon exp for black demons = 50k+24k(effigy) = 64k summon exp per hour assuming no time taken to unlock effigy. So accounting for effigy drops, waterfiends are still better summoning exp. Defence exp could not be calculated due to the fact that to get that number of kills for black demon and dragon, you require a cannon which take a chunk of your total exp for range. However, wfs gives a solid 119k def exp per hour. Edit: If you went tl;dr into all the math I did just know that wfs at ct is still the best option for you. The math is much appreciated; thanks. I believe Demons are around 80-85k Defence experience/hr, and Dragons are probably less than that. Did you include using an Iron Titan in your 236 kills/hr estimate? Also, you forgot to incorporate the experience gained from completing the Effigy (90k) in your calculations. There's no way I'd ever use an Effigy on Summoning, so again, your rates are slightly off, but hopefully the difference is negligible =p.Then what will you use them on? Really? Cause as I recall it was you who was the one cussing me at base. Also, re-read what you just said: one 15 second delay (which is an exaggeration to begin with) ruins floor times? You are beyond ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our_Moon Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Runecrafting, Agility, whatever else needs maxing... It's irrelevant to the fact that Waterfiends are probably the best bet. Thanks for setting me straight =). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMC Mate Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Runecrafting, Agility, whatever else needs maxing... It's irrelevant to the fact that Waterfiends are probably the best bet. Thanks for setting me straight =).I forgot to mention that in my last post, but yeah, WFs are the best bet. Really? Cause as I recall it was you who was the one cussing me at base. Also, re-read what you just said: one 15 second delay (which is an exaggeration to begin with) ruins floor times? You are beyond ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gin_and_Tonic Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Barrage rock lobs on defence mode? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyneax Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Barrage rock lobs on defence mode? :blink:Has its advantages, but considering it's equal/slower defence xp as Chaos Tunnels fiends, worse effigies and costs more, it's not awesome if you are 99 mage. Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions 99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011) 99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012) 99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012) 99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013) 99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013) Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace 30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtaurian Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Cavern fiends with a maul on defensive or black demons till 95 summoning, then CT fiends to 99. To put it bluntly, [bleep] off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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