Slayer Equipment

[Dex]

I been looking at some equipment stats and was wondering several things.

 

First of all, why don't people wear str ammy for slayer.

 

Str ammy has +2 str bonus over fury, and I would think the accuarcy and defense bonuses provided by fury aren't necessary for slayer.

 

Second, I seen people recommend fury before bandos chestplate? I used to think this was a no brainer until I realise fury only gives +2 str over glory (used to think fury gave+4 str over glory), while bandos has a +4 str. So if one doesn't have torso, shouldn't bcp take piority over fury when purchasing equipments.

 

One last thing. With the accuracy of a cr, would a str bonus of +1 worth sacrificing +24 stab bonus, i.e dfs vs d def.

 

I would actually like some numbers. 'Guessing' and 'assuming' doesn't really help :unsure:

[Vezon Dash]

I hate to say it, but.... Ya... You are wrong. Why would you buy a bcp if you have a torso? It is the same bonuses... Oh, and if you can't afford fury and bandos, you should just use prossy anyway...

[Quyneax]

There are points where dfs > ddef and strength > fury. They just require insane accuracy. Also you lose +5 prayer on the fury, which is not crucial but nice to have.

 

Fury before bcp has to do with monsterhunting applications mainly. The order would be berserker ring > bcp > fury > tassets = claws if all you did was melee slayer.

 

I believe Grimy Bunip once calculated that you need 85%ish accuracy to take dfs over a rune defender, and around the same for strength over glory. However it's really quite hard to get that high, even on stuff like greater demons.

[Dex]

@vezonfenrak Sorry, I didn't make it clear in my post. I mean't it it for someone who doesn't own torso and uses prossy/barrows to train slayer

 

@Quyneax Do you happen to know where the calculations are? What about the combination of str ammy+d def.

[Quyneax]

Well you would calculate max hit and max accuracy roll and determine the defence roll a certain setup would be better against.

 

5 + (level + 8)(gear bonus + 64)/64

 

So what you do is calculate that, then fill in the defence roll for the monster. If the maximum roll your opponent can have is unrealistically low straight away, you got your answer, otherwise you'll need lots of testing.

[Dex]

I don't actually understand that formula. What's the 5? Your or your opponents level? What's the 8?

 

Would you be able to find the % accuracy from that?

[LitterBug]

I don't actually understand that formula. What's the 5? Your or your opponents level? What's the 8?

 

Would you be able to find the % accuracy from that?

 

the 5 and 8 are just constant numbers. think of it as a linear push upwards

all that formula is to calculate your max hit (using str for the level and gear bonus) and calculating your max accuracy (using atk for the level and your style's attack bonus)

then you compare your max accuracy to your opponents defense's max roll

 

i'm not sure, but i seem to have read in a few places that these rolls are uniformly distributed. If this is so, since your str never gets scaled down (adding x str bonus will always result in a y gain in max hit) while your atk is a percentage and it depends on your opponent's roll. (this is a little harder to explain but basically adding x atk bonus early on is good but as your atk bonus increases, you get less and less result - percentage wise)

[Quyneax]

Yes the 5 and 8 and 64 are constants.

 

Level is: (basic level + potion boost)*(slayer helmet boost or salve amulet boost)*(prayer boost)*(berserker/tactician/desperado class ring boost) + style bonus.

 

Where slayer helmet is 0% or 15%, salve is 0% or 15% or 20% depending on which version you got (if you got helmet & amulet you only get the highest %). Prayer boost is listed in the prayer menu, e.g. 0%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 18%, 23% for strength for example, or any of the curse boosts which vary in time. Then the class rings add 10% + 1% per tier of you ring, berserker for strength rolls on agressive, tactician for attack rolls on accurate, desperado for ranged on rapid. The style boost is 0, 1 or 3 for melee. If you use accurate you get +3 attack, agressive +3 strength, defensive +3 defence and controlled +1 all. For ranged you instead get +3 level/+1 speed/+1 range I think (not 100% sure).

 

Gear bonus is what is displayed in the equip screen, so for an attack roll it's your attack bonus etc. Iron/steel titan bonusus are counted here (you can see them).

[Dex]

K that makes it clear, but about the constants, I wanted to know what they were. For example, y = 3x + 4, the constant 3 is the gradient of a line. Is the 8 and 5 derived from empirical experiment or does it actually stand for something.

 

Also how would you figure the defense level of your enemy? Would you have to calculate it from turmoil boosts? Also, do you assume monsters have 0 equipment bonus.

[Quyneax]

The constants style boosts date back from RSC when they were displayed, so it's just assumed they haven't changed and that fits with observations.

 

The rest has been derived empirically, yes.

 

Defence level is guesswork, turmoil defence boost does one bit but all monsters with a major melee style weakness also have gear bonus (or some mechanism unavailable to players).

 

Turmoil to test defence level works best on a 30 defence pure I think, because they get larger bonusus (= more accurate reading).

[Dex]

Has anybody done this research or are my gonna have to make some guesswork based on what I get from my acc?

[Quyneax]

Nobody has tested a large enough sample of a given monster to conclusively prove that strength > fury, to my knowledge.

[squidsquash]

So, if all I do is slayer, BCP + Veracs skirt > Fury? Good to know :thumbsup:

[LitterBug]

I remember there being calculations done on Ardy Cape Vs. Fire Cape on a dragons (steel - I believe? Not 100% sure anymore)

If you look at the difference - it's 5 stab for 4 strength and the fire cape was slightly (not by much) better.

However, if you look at the difference between fury and the strength amulet - there's a difference of 9 in attack (accuracy bonus) compared to 2 in strength - as well as a few other skills i.e pray, defensive, summoning. Just from comparison, it seems that the fury > the strength amulet.

 

It's pretty hard to get a 100% decision - since both the defense roll of the monster has to be taken into account as well as the accuracy of the DPS formulas.

I think it would just be better if these combat mechanics were made more transparent.

 

Either way, that >12.5 mil difference in price has to account for something right? :/

[Dex]

I wanted to do an experiment doing this but I can't think of anything that isn't extremely tedious. What I have no is noting the slayer task, the number and then just count the number of hits required to finish that task. And compare the numbers between fury and str. This of course can't be done with cannon tasks, and I would have to be using ovl all the time to avoid error in decreasing boosted stats. :ohnoes:

 

Fury and str may be quite close, but what about glory. I'm feel a +4 str bonus may worth the -10 accuracy

[Quyneax]

Glory and strength are a lot closer yeah, probably worth it on LRC, maybe greaters and such.

 

If you want to know monster defence levels just vid every task you do and write a hit/miss counting bot to analyze the tape while you sleep (or do it live I guess, but I'm not sure if that makes it more difficult or not).

[Dex]

Don't know how to make a counting bot but I thought about vidding because if I do it live, it's more likely I'll miss a hit (tried it for an iron task yesterday, got visage and got super distracted and mess up the count :ohnoes: ). Too bad jagex still hasn't fixed opengl so I cant use fraps, which is the only video recorder that doesn't wreck my computer.

[Th e Doctor]

Or you can just open notepad and record hits and misses with a ..///.....//.../ system while you play, makes it pretty easy.

[Dex]

I used iphone - tally app to record the number of hits per task, it means I don't have to switch between 2 windows. However, I do get distracted easily so I tend to miss a couple hits.