Seems like things are getting a little heated here... and a bit off-topic. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - positive or negative - and people are welcome to voice those opinions. With regards to one of the comments above, Jagex has no problem with people being critical. But there is a difference between disagreeing with Jagex and constructively criticizing them, and blatantly/mindlessly bashing them. We're not going to force people to have an opinion one way or another, but we would like to stay away from any mindless, pointless bashing. But disagreeing with Jagex and being critical is perfectly fine. Jagex made it clear to us early on that they don't want to try to control what is posted on this forum (other than upholding basic RuneScape Rules like no selling gold, etc.). If they have concerns about people expressing their negative opinions of Jagex on fan sites, they will contact us to discuss it. but they have never seemed to have a problem with it in the past.

 

Now let's stop jumping at peoples' throats please ;)

I'm assuming this applies for staff members as well?

Staff members are not required to support Jagex's decisions. We're fully free to respectfully disagree or be critical or post a Times article saying that we feel Jagex made a bad move. As I said before, as long as we're being constructively critical and not just blatantly bashing them. Jagex has actually told us on several occasions that they appreciate negative feedback, as long as it is constructive. There's also a difference between posting our thoughts here and posting something against Jagex in an official capacity. We wouldn't create a new post saying "Jagex made a horrible decision, they're killing Runescape!!@!@ They suck!! Everyone revolt!" Not sure how Jagex would feel about that specifically, but I'll guess they wouldn't like it and I personally would find it to be unprofessional and unnecessary :P

But they do have opinions, and places to voice them.

As long as us non-mod plebeians don't hear them, correct?

Take a look over my recent profile on the RSOF (which I can't link to because there would be a session id in the link). I post in rants, in agreement with the ranters. I also know at least one of us has made a thread there, and we haven't gotten in any trouble for it.

 

Jagex doesn't care if we disagree with something in public or not, as long as we do it in a respectful and constructive way.

 

Mod Mad K actually posted the exact policy the mods follow on this thread (285-286-385-63379352), which I also can't link to because you have to be logged in to see the rants forum (and again, I'm not going to risk posting a link containing my session ID just in case).

 

[spoiler=Here is what he said]

All moderators can have their own opinions and we are more than happy for them to express them. In fact, we have given the moderators their own feedback forum so they have somewhere do this. Let me post what the advice we give moderators about posting their opinions, it may help you to understand where we are coming from.

 

There has been a lot of talk recently about what moderators can and can't say publicly and I hope that this thread and the subsequent dialogue will help make it clear in your minds what we are trying to achieve and why.

 

Our ultimate aim is to create a game which people enjoy playing. Part of that enjoyment comes from the community they play with everyday and both you and us can impact on that environment every day.

 

Whether we intended it or not, it is a fact that you can influence the community more than most regular players, whether on the forums or in game.

 

Ideally, we'd love every single one of you to spend all of your time being really nice to everyone you meet and doing whatever they want... within reason of course. But, we are realistic, we know that you are players and want to play the game or just chill with your friends which is why we have never asked, or ever will ask, you to do that.

 

However, it is true to say that you have the ability to negatively impact the community as well as positively impact it. The problem with negatively impacting the community is that not only does the community go to a worse place, but the pressure put upon the other moderators is higher. If one mod is saying that "Jagex are thieves" anyone seeing them is going to be less inclined to listen to another mod trying to explain the situation to them or stop them from doing something dangerous.

 

Disagreeing with us is absolutely fine, but you should think about how the community will feel reading what you have typed in. In most cases if we see something that we think will be damaging to the community we can have a chat with you and show you what we mean in more detail. However, there is a big difference between disagreeing with us and either publicly ranting against Jagex as a moderator or inciting the community to raise arms against us.

 

A great example that you may have seen used is that if someone who volunteers to help out in a charity shop starts telling people who come in not to buy things because the charity behind it all just wastes their money anyway, the charity would pretty soon ask that person to no longer volunteer to help out in their shop as their actions are causing damage to the overall aims of the charity. However, the individual would be free to stand outside the shop and air their views to anyone in the street who may choose to listen

 

Mat.

 

Having only a select few mods to point out the flaws of Jagex is not gonna do anything at all.

 

What these guys need, are the support of all the fansites, as well as the recognized players of Runescape. Heck maybe even the general population of Runescape itself (despite them being dumb as heck).

 

Jagex never realizes that some of their decisions are game-breaking and are putting themselves in immense danger. And since they're so totalitarianism-esque, we as an entire Runescape population need to act on this as a WHOLE. Just having only a select few stand up is not gonna work.

 

Getting everyone to cancel their membership and quitting -> finding a new game to play is the only way.

Having only a select few mods to point out the flaws of Jagex is not gonna do anything at all.

 

What these guys need, are the support of all the fansites, as well as the recognized players of Runescape. Heck maybe even the general population of Runescape itself (despite them being dumb as heck).

 

Jagex never realizes that some of their decisions are game-breaking and are putting themselves in immense danger. And since they're so totalitarianism-esque, we as an entire Runescape population need to act on this as a WHOLE. Just having only a select few stand up is not gonna work.

 

Getting everyone to cancel their membership and quitting -> finding a new game to play is the only way.

 

You're trying to incite players to quit RS?

Having only a select few mods to point out the flaws of Jagex is not gonna do anything at all.

 

What these guys need, are the support of all the fansites, as well as the recognized players of Runescape. Heck maybe even the general population of Runescape itself (despite them being dumb as heck).

 

Jagex never realizes that some of their decisions are game-breaking and are putting themselves in immense danger. And since they're so totalitarianism-esque, we as an entire Runescape population need to act on this as a WHOLE. Just having only a select few stand up is not gonna work.

 

Getting everyone to cancel their membership and quitting -> finding a new game to play is the only way.

 

You're trying to incite players to quit RS?

 

Yes, getting everyone to quit RS is the only way from preventing Jagex from making decisions that are so bad that everyone will quit RS, because it would be horrible if everyone quit RS and the end justifies the means, or in this case, becomes the opposite of the means through trickery of the best kind.

 

What, that logic isn't clear enough for you? He called Jagex totalitarian, so I think we can call that close enough to Godwin's Law. He also called the average player of RuneScape "dumb as heck". He hates Jagex for not respecting the common runescape player and being totalitarian, but he calls the average runescape player "dumb as heck", so he doesn't respect them either. So because he thinks the same way Jagex does, he's going to rescue them from driving all "dumb as heck" runescape players away from RS, by convincing them all to stop playing RS first, before they can stop playing RS.

 

Let's make an analogy. This is like the scene in Moulin Rouge where the director tells Satine that "you must hurt him to save him", except in the version where it's a surrealist comedy and he tells her "you must kill him to save him", and then a long dream scene ensues in which everything up to this point is revealed to have been the imaginations of a fevered Dalmation.

 

I hope this clears things up for you.

 

I have a theory actually, it's that the people writing this kind of stuff read what tripsis wrote about "jagex doesn't mind constructive criticism" and then they get angry and start comparing Jagex to nazis, as above. He threw the gauntlet down, and they responded with vigor. Probably the same reason why Ken Genosis posted in the fashion he did, his points in the f-mod forums were ignored, so he blew up in the general forums. No one enjoys being ignored.

Having only a select few mods to point out the flaws of Jagex is not gonna do anything at all.

 

What these guys need, are the support of all the fansites, as well as the recognized players of Runescape. Heck maybe even the general population of Runescape itself (despite them being dumb as heck).

 

Jagex never realizes that some of their decisions are game-breaking and are putting themselves in immense danger. And since they're so totalitarianism-esque, we as an entire Runescape population need to act on this as a WHOLE. Just having only a select few stand up is not gonna work.

 

Getting everyone to cancel their membership and quitting -> finding a new game to play is the only way.

 

You're trying to incite players to quit RS?

 

Yes, getting everyone to quit RS is the only way from preventing Jagex from making decisions that are so bad that everyone will quit RS, because it would be horrible if everyone quit RS and the end justifies the means, or in this case, becomes the opposite of the means through trickery of the best kind.

 

What, that logic isn't clear enough for you? He called Jagex totalitarian, so I think we can call that close enough to Godwin's Law. He also called the average player of RuneScape "dumb as heck". He hates Jagex for not respecting the common runescape player and being totalitarian, but he calls the average runescape player "dumb as heck", so he doesn't respect them either. So because he thinks the same way Jagex does, he's going to rescue them from driving all "dumb as heck" runescape players away from RS, by convincing them all to stop playing RS first, before they can stop playing RS.

 

Let's make an analogy. This is like the scene in Moulin Rouge where the director tells Satine that "you must hurt him to save him", except in the version where it's a surrealist comedy and he tells her "you must kill him to save him", and then a long dream scene ensues in which everything up to this point is revealed to have been the imaginations of a fevered Dalmation.

 

I hope this clears things up for you.

 

I have a theory actually, it's that the people writing this kind of stuff read what tripsis wrote about "jagex doesn't mind constructive criticism" and then they get angry and start comparing Jagex to nazis, as above. He threw the gauntlet down, and they responded with vigor. Probably the same reason why Ken Genosis posted in the fashion he did, his points in the f-mod forums were ignored, so he blew up in the general forums. No one enjoys being ignored.

 

Now that was real laugh out loud stuff :thumbsup:

What I find interesting is the fact that those who are upset about the demodding in a way actually support Jagex's argument for doing it. As several Jmods said, every Fmod is allowed to voice his opinion. Their guidelines only state that if it's extremely negative, they should post it on an alternate account.

 

The fact that people are upset so much over fmods not being able to post negative criticism on their fmod account only shows that fmods are not perceived as absolutely regular players. They do represent Jagex, and (what I find more important) they also represent other Fmods.

 

Now, the Jiblix affaire can be called controversial as he got demodded over a youtube video, and we don't know if that was made clear in the guidelines(Or at least, I don't know)

 

The demodding of Ken genosis though, I don't see the issue. He was(or should have been) fully aware of the consequences, his thread was very negative and not really constructive.

What I find interesting is the fact that those who are upset about the demodding in a way actually support Jagex's argument for doing it. As several Jmods said, every Fmod is allowed to voice his opinion. Their guidelines only state that if it's extremely negative, they should post it on an alternate account.

 

The fact that people are upset so much over fmods not being able to post negative criticism on their fmod account only shows that fmods are not perceived as absolutely regular players. They do represent Jagex, and (what I find more important) they also represent other Fmods.

 

Now, the Jiblix affaire can be called controversial as he got demodded over a youtube video, and we don't know if that was made clear in the guidelines(Or at least, I don't know)

 

The demodding of Ken genosis though, I don't see the issue. He was(or should have been) fully aware of the consequences, his thread was very negative and not really constructive.

 

No, the Ken one wasn't really too bad. Ipersonally thought though after the Jiblix debacle they'd have found another way to deal with things like the Ken situation without looking so bad.

No, the Ken one wasn't really too bad. Ipersonally thought though after the Jiblix debacle they'd have found another way to deal with things like the Ken situation without looking so bad.

If I go into my workplace tomorrow and start bad mouthing the other staff members to my work's customers, under what specific employment law would you argue my boss shouldn't take my job away? If you're wearing someone else's uniform, whether you get paid for it or not, you do your hardest to represent that uniform in a positive way.

 

As has been said, there was nothing stopping him from making that thread on an alternative account where his modship wouldn't have been called into question.

No, the Ken one wasn't really too bad. Ipersonally thought though after the Jiblix debacle they'd have found another way to deal with things like the Ken situation without looking so bad.

If I go into my workplace tomorrow and start bad mouthing the other staff members to my work's customers, under what specific employment law would you argue my boss shouldn't take my job away? If you're wearing someone else's uniform, whether you get paid for it or not, you do your hardest to represent that uniform in a positive way.

 

As has been said, there was nothing stopping him from making that thread on an alternative account where his modship wouldn't have been called into question.

 

Nothing would stop them. They have the right to do it, but that doesn't mean they should. I was saying after what happened with Jib, I'd have thought they would've spent the time to come up with a better solution for the next time it happened.

Whoa, stop there.

 

It wasn't Jagex who forced this issue. Ken knew full well what would happen if he dealt with his issues the way he did, yet you're still blaming Jagex for not coping with the situation properly? I'm sorry, but if he made that thread on an alternative account, Jagex wouldn't have had to do anything at all. I'm in disbelief that you're still trying to pin Jagex for this one when it Ken who did wrong.

Whoa, stop there.

 

It wasn't Jagex who forced this issue. Ken knew full well what would happen if he dealt with his issues the way he did, yet you're still blaming Jagex for not coping with the situation properly? I'm sorry, but if he made that thread on an alternative account, Jagex wouldn't have had to do anything at all. I'm in disbelief that you're still trying to pin Jagex for this one when it Ken who did wrong.

 

Again, I'd have hoped Jagex had something better for when someone forced the issue again. If they are the ones who are going to take action against someone then they are responsibile for it. Please don't lump what I'm saying with what other people are.

 

I'm not blaming them for it. I understand why they did it. I just don't agree with what they did. I think they can do better.

 

If someone bullies someone and the person who'd being bullied shoots them in the head, I'd still understand why they did it, but not agree with it.

Again, I'd have hoped Jagex had something better for when someone forced the issue again. If they are the ones who are going to take action against someone then they are responsibile for it. Please don't lump what I'm saying with what other people are.

 

They never said they weren't responsible for it. Why should anyone care that you hoped they'd do something different this time? If they did, thousands of people would have lambasted them for inconsistency, so that's no better for Jagex anyway.

 

I'm not blaming them for it. I understand why they did it. I just don't agree with what they did. I think they can do better.

 

I'm not blaming you for posting that. I understand why you did it. I just don't agree with what you said. I think you can do better.

 

If someone bullies someone and the person who'd being bullied shoots them in the head, I'd still understand why they did it, but not agree with it.

 

Umm...way to discredit all your previous remarks with a way out of bounds analogy.

1) Why should we care what anyone says on here?

 

2) I'll try harder. :thumbup:

 

3) Hi, I'm way out of bounds. Nice to meet you. :shades:

Andrew Gower has threatened to sue a tip.it user for their article criticizing Jagex before.

 

Oh, I remember that! Iirc, it was for libel or something, though I don't remember the topic. Now I'm curious as to see if it's still on these boards.

Andrew Gower has threatened to sue a tip.it user for their article criticizing Jagex before.

Oh, I remember that! Iirc, it was for libel or something, though I don't remember the topic. Now I'm curious as to see if it's still on these boards.

If I'm not mistaken, it was over some things that were said in a Tip.It Times article that was removed after Andrew contacted the admins.

1) Why should we care what anyone says on here?

 

Perhaps if they said something more interesting than what they hoped some other person/entity would do? It's just common sense: Talking about what you yourself did is factual. Talking about your plans, or what someone else did, is one step removed. Generally, the only reason for going one step removed is to allow for analytical discussion, not just relating the bare elements, as then you'd prefer the more factual approach of sticking to personal experience. Talking about your plans for someone else to do something, without them knowing those plans, is two steps into the realm of fantasy, only unusually inspired analysis can make that level of separation interesting. This epistemological viewpoint we find echoed in common social norms, where small talk with strangers is often limited to noncontroversial facts or jokes, sharing your hopes and dreams is more commonly for intimate friends, and telling someone else what you hope and dream for them is generally limited to your spouse and children, and even then one should proceed with caution. You presenting your hopes and dreams for what Jagex would do, without analysis or interpretation, was actually fairly unusual, which is why I mentioned it. You may have mistook it for a rhetorical question, but I was actually curious why you thought that was worth expressing. Especially when you later compared them a nutjob murdering kids, also an unusual rhetorical move. Both of those pathologies indicate that you regard Jagex more from the perspective of a jilted lover than as a disappointed customer of an underperforming software company, and I was attempting to ascertain why that was so.

 

Hope that answers your question :) Sorry that it was a relatively uninteresting second level answer, but it was a relatively uninteresting second level question after all.

1) Why should we care what anyone says on here?

 

Perhaps if they said something more interesting than what they hoped some other person/entity would do? It's just common sense: Talking about what you yourself did is factual. Talking about your plans, or what someone else did, is one step removed. Generally, the only reason for going one step removed is to allow for analytical discussion, not just relating the bare elements, as then you'd prefer the more factual approach of sticking to personal experience. Talking about your plans for someone else to do something, without them knowing those plans, is two steps into the realm of fantasy, only unusually inspired analysis can make that level of separation interesting. You presenting your hopes and dreams for what Jagex would do, without analysis or interpretation, was actually fairly unusual, which is why I mentioned it. You may have mistook it for a rhetorical question, but I was actually curious why you thought that was worth expressing. Especially when you later compared them a nutjob murdering kids, also an unusual rhetorical move. Both of those pathologies indicate that you regard Jagex more from the perspective of a jilted lover than as a disappointed customer of an underperforming software company, and I was attempting to ascertain why that was so.

 

Hope that answers your question :) Sorry that it was a relatively uninteresting second level answer, but it was a relatively uninteresting second level question after all.

 

After reading your post, I'd cartainly say you are an expert at being uninteresting. :thumbup:

1) Why should we care what anyone says on here?

 

Perhaps if they said something more interesting than what they hoped some other person/entity would do? It's just common sense: Talking about what you yourself did is factual. Talking about your plans, or what someone else did, is one step removed. Generally, the only reason for going one step removed is to allow for analytical discussion, not just relating the bare elements, as then you'd prefer the more factual approach of sticking to personal experience. Talking about your plans for someone else to do something, without them knowing those plans, is two steps into the realm of fantasy, only unusually inspired analysis can make that level of separation interesting. You presenting your hopes and dreams for what Jagex would do, without analysis or interpretation, was actually fairly unusual, which is why I mentioned it. You may have mistook it for a rhetorical question, but I was actually curious why you thought that was worth expressing. Especially when you later compared them a nutjob murdering kids, also an unusual rhetorical move. Both of those pathologies indicate that you regard Jagex more from the perspective of a jilted lover than as a disappointed customer of an underperforming software company, and I was attempting to ascertain why that was so.

 

Hope that answers your question :) Sorry that it was a relatively uninteresting second level answer, but it was a relatively uninteresting second level question after all.

 

After reading your post, I'd cartainly say you are an expert at being uninteresting. :thumbup:

 

If you'd prefer our exchange to devolve into one of insults, please take it to PM :)

I've deleted a few posts in here for being off-topic. If you want to have discussions which don't relate to this thread, either make a separate thread or use the PM system.

I have been quite busy lately so if anyone have info on the fallout from the ken demodding feel free to update.

 

As usual, rsof is completely cleaned out.

Info on what, exactly? Can you possibly discuss it any more?

 

"As usual", yes. Hello Page 51.

 

Not everyone likes to beat the same dead horse over and over.

I have been quite busy lately so if anyone have info on the fallout from the ken demodding feel free to update.

 

As usual, rsof is completely cleaned out.

 

He was demodded. Other than that, no fallout.

Info on what, exactly? Can you possibly discuss it any more?

 

"As usual", yes. Hello Page 51.

 

Not everyone likes to beat the same dead horse over and over.

Info on exactly where that thread went - yes they can demod but actually locking his thread twice, moving it to a login-needed rants forum, and finally deleting the thread? That was the fallout that I had to dig out of archives.

 

Not only demodding, but complete silencing of a legitimate complaint.

Look at the damn trend: rs1 never existed, Andrew Gower never existed, none of old legends existed (1st to 99s etc)', and soon f2p will never have existed.

 

I don't suppose you support these police state tactics?

Info on what, exactly? Can you possibly discuss it any more?

 

"As usual", yes. Hello Page 51.

 

Not everyone likes to beat the same dead horse over and over.

Info on exactly where that thread went - yes they can demod but actually locking his thread twice, moving it to a login-needed rants forum, and finally deleting the thread? That was the fallout that I had to dig out of archives.

 

Not only demodding, but complete silencing of a legitimate complaint.

Look at the damn trend: rs1 never existed, Andrew Gower never existed, none of old legends existed (1st to 99s etc)', and soon f2p will never have existed.

 

I don't suppose you support these police state tactics?

 

Threads are deleted after the reach the end of page 50. It has always been that way.

 

Police state tactics? Are you kidding me? It's a company. Get with the times, please!

 

I honestly couldn't care what they do at this point; I'm a member. You don't even play!

 

:wall: