Tip.It Times article, anyone?

Tip.It Times article, anyone?

 

I don't think there's going to be one soon, but there may be in future. Who knows?

Tip.It Times article, anyone?

 

this isnt really that significant.

 

And not to mention discussed to death on this thread.

umm whats the point of this thread? these guys are getting demodded for not supporting jagex. if they have a different view of opinion then they shouldn't blab about it in public. i'm sure there's ways to bring their concern to jagex personally. if i don't like something at work i don't jump up on the desk and yell out to the customers. i go into my supervisors office and tell them. anyone who doesn't understand this has an iq of a stick.

umm whats the point of this thread? these guys are getting demodded for not supporting jagex. if they have a different view of opinion then they shouldn't blab about it in public. i'm sure there's ways to bring their concern to jagex personally. if i don't like something at work i don't jump up on the desk and yell out to the customers. i go into my supervisors office and tell them. anyone who doesn't understand this has an iq of a stick.

 

Please refrain from personally attacking people who may disagree with your position. The question in debate is whether JaGex ought to exercise censorship against moderators who do not share the same vision as JaGex - those whom may disagree. It is not the same as 'jumping on a desk and yelling at customers' at all - the analogy is very weak because there's very few similarities between the two.

 

My view on the matter would be that it should be most appropriate if the views of disgruntled moderators were to be listened to, should it be presented in a way that is constructive and civil. I do not shun controversy, nor criticism - it operates in their interests to be self-correcting.

 

It is a shame that sometimes JaGex does not fully justify their actions - thus it can only be assumed that they have ulterior motives. Hmmm..

It is a shame that sometimes JaGex does not fully justify their actions - thus it can only be assumed that they have ulterior motives.

 

Why is it that you feel they should be justifying their actions?

And to say it can only be assumed they have ulterior motives is somewhat single-minded don't you think?

Oops, did I say only?

 

They ought to justify their actions as a lack of transparency is likely to result in consumer disloyalty, especially those actions which adversely affect players. (see the recent highscores scandal)

The question in debate is whether JaGex ought to exercise censorship against moderators who do not share the same vision as JaGex - those whom may disagree.

 

the blind leading the blind

umm whats the point of this thread? these guys are getting demodded for not supporting jagex. if they have a different view of opinion then they shouldn't blab about it in public. i'm sure there's ways to bring their concern to jagex personally. if i don't like something at work i don't jump up on the desk and yell out to the customers. i go into my supervisors office and tell them. anyone who doesn't understand this has an iq of a stick.

 

Please refrain from personally attacking people who may disagree with your position. The question in debate is whether JaGex ought to exercise censorship against moderators who do not share the same vision as JaGex - those whom may disagree. It is not the same as 'jumping on a desk and yelling at customers' at all - the analogy is very weak because there's very few similarities between the two.

 

My view on the matter would be that it should be most appropriate if the views of disgruntled moderators were to be listened to, should it be presented in a way that is constructive and civil. I do not shun controversy, nor criticism - it operates in their interests to be self-correcting.

 

It is a shame that sometimes JaGex does not fully justify their actions - thus it can only be assumed that they have ulterior motives. Hmmm..

 

Jagex, a multi-million pound company should justify (Or walkthrough - as they are already justified) why they've done something, to its customers? No, not at all. What they've done is justified, those demodded know exactly why they were demodded. I've already supplied a rather large quote by Mod Mat K in a previous page of this thread. These moderators weren't censored, they're free to post their opinions. They are guided to post them in a feedback forum for Moderators (As stated in previous quote) as their opinions in public can be seen as the opinion of all Moderators (They have green backgrounds/Silver crowns). If every other Moderator can express their opinions in a certain forum - so can those that were demodded. It's attention seeking when they go out of their way to make it seem like they're the only ones with an opinion.

 

And I believe his analogy does apply. If all of the other staff in that place can express their opinions to the management privately and respectfully, then so should they. Should they choose to jump up on that table and scream and shout, they shouldn't be surprised as to why their were dismissed. To then go outside of that place of work and preach that they were fired for disagreeing with the ownership...They're not being entirely honest.

Oops, did I say only?

It is a shame that sometimes JaGex does not fully justify their actions - thus it can only be assumed that they have ulterior motives.

 

 

 

They ought to justify their actions as a lack of transparency is likely to result in consumer disloyalty, especially those actions which adversely affect players. (see the recent highscores scandal)

 

So, aif I'm reading your stance correctly (please feel free to correct this), every decision made must be completely justified in a public arena, albeit even if it has nothing to do with the general public, because after all, each decision does affect plays.

 

But what level at which does it have to 'result in customer disloyalty? 1 player? 10 players?

 

As for the adverse affect on players, I don't see any here outside of Jiblix and Ken Genosis (again, assuming you are using players to describe the population of the game). They have been demodded, so what is the effect on the rest of the community?

umm whats the point of this thread? these guys are getting demodded for not supporting jagex. if they have a different view of opinion then they shouldn't blab about it in public. i'm sure there's ways to bring their concern to jagex personally. if i don't like something at work i don't jump up on the desk and yell out to the customers. i go into my supervisors office and tell them. anyone who doesn't understand this has an iq of a stick.

 

Please refrain from personally attacking people who may disagree with your position. The question in debate is whether JaGex ought to exercise censorship against moderators who do not share the same vision as JaGex - those whom may disagree. It is not the same as 'jumping on a desk and yelling at customers' at all - the analogy is very weak because there's very few similarities between the two.

 

My view on the matter would be that it should be most appropriate if the views of disgruntled moderators were to be listened to, should it be presented in a way that is constructive and civil. I do not shun controversy, nor criticism - it operates in their interests to be self-correcting.

 

It is a shame that sometimes JaGex does not fully justify their actions - thus it can only be assumed that they have ulterior motives. Hmmm..

 

Jagex, a multi-million pound company should justify (Or walkthrough - as they are already justified) why they've done something, to its customers? No, not at all. What they've done is justified, those demodded know exactly why they were demodded. I've already supplied a rather large quote by Mod Mat K in a previous page of this thread. These moderators weren't censored, they're free to post their opinions. They are guided to post them in a feedback forum for Moderators (As stated in previous quote) as their opinions in public can be seen as the opinion of all Moderators (They have green backgrounds/Silver crowns). If every other Moderator can express their opinions in a certain forum - so can those that were demodded. It's attention seeking when they go out of their way to make it seem like they're the only ones with an opinion.

 

And I believe his analogy does apply. If all of the other staff in that place can express their opinions to the management privately and respectfully, then so should they. Should they choose to jump up on that table and scream and shout, they shouldn't be surprised as to why their were dismissed. To then go outside of that place of work and preach that they were fired for disagreeing with the ownership...They're not being entirely honest.

 

Do you think they should have action taken against them if they air the opinions on sites that are not run by Jagex, such as Tip?

Oops, did I say only?

 

They ought to justify their actions as a lack of transparency is likely to result in consumer disloyalty, especially those actions which adversely affect players. (see the recent highscores scandal)

 

 

Justifying their actions =/= being transparent.

 

"a lack of transparency is likely to result in consumer disloyalty, especially those actions which adversely affect players."

 

If the actions being hidden by lack of transparency would result in more disloyalty upon being revealed than the current nontransparent state, then that statement is false, no?

Oops, did I say only?

 

They ought to justify their actions as a lack of transparency is likely to result in consumer disloyalty, especially those actions which adversely affect players. (see the recent highscores scandal)

 

 

Justifying their actions =/= being transparent.

 

"a lack of transparency is likely to result in consumer disloyalty, especially those actions which adversely affect players."

 

If the actions being hidden by lack of transparency would result in more disloyalty upon being revealed than the current nontransparent state, then that statement is false, no?

 

I believe he meant that the act of hiding their ulterior motives turns off more people than if they did was they wanted openly. People really, really hate being lied to, or feel they're being talked down to, etc.

 

Yes though, your statement is correct as well.

Oops, did I say only?

 

They ought to justify their actions as a lack of transparency is likely to result in consumer disloyalty, especially those actions which adversely affect players. (see the recent highscores scandal)

 

 

Justifying their actions =/= being transparent.

 

"a lack of transparency is likely to result in consumer disloyalty, especially those actions which adversely affect players."

 

If the actions being hidden by lack of transparency would result in more disloyalty upon being revealed than the current nontransparent state, then that statement is false, no?

 

I believe he meant that the act of hiding their ulterior motives turns off more people than if they did was they wanted openly. People really, really hate being lied to, or feel they're being talked down to, etc.

 

Yes though, your statement is correct as well.

 

For some reason I'm failing to convey what I mean in recent posts - indeed, that is what is meant. As a point of criticism, I don't think 'ulterior' is necessary here - by definition, hidden motives are ulterior.

 

@delapaz; I don't see how justifying their actions aren't transparent - it's simply being open about their decisions. You may be right that I may have conflated the terms though.

 

In response to another point - I don't quite understand what you mean by "If the actions being hidden by lack of transparency would result in more disloyalty upon being revealed than the current nontransparent state, then that statement is false, no?", could you phrase it in a way that doesn't use so many negatives?

@delapaz; I don't see how justifying their actions aren't transparent - it's simply being open about their decisions. You may be right that I may have conflated the terms though.

 

To me justifying their actions could mean either being transparent, or lying, as long as the goal was to make their actions appear correct. I didn't think you were being deceptive, I just read your statement as being a bit unclear in that regard.

 

 

In response to another point - I don't quite understand what you mean by "If the actions being hidden by lack of transparency would result in more disloyalty upon being revealed than the current nontransparent state, then that statement is false, no?", could you phrase it in a way that doesn't use so many negatives?

 

Well, this was mainly referring to the fact that many nontransparent organizations are nontransparent because they are in fact doing some awfully shady stuff that they're keeping hidden, and that if you're making an argument based on their own good than you would be incorrect to conclude that they should be more transparent. My personal opinion/guess is that Jagex is hiding the motives here because their motives are to cut costs, and they don't want to admit that they were caught flat-footed at how much their customer base would drop after the botnuke, which doesn't really fall into the scenario above, but it's just my own guess so I don't think I'm only playing devil's advocate to raise that point here. To rephrase the statement above with less negatives: "If the actions or motivations being hidden now would result in more disloyalty upon being revealed than is currently being caused by hiding them, then that statement is false, right?" Don't think that's really any clearer, but there it is.

Skeptic, the point I believe he was trying to make was that if the the actions they were trying to take would cause more disloyalty than the fact that they were hiding them, which also causes the disloyalty, the actions wouldn't need to be justified. It would be self-evident why they hid it. They wouldn't need to justify it. Though it would still be a crappy thing to do.

 

If I caught my husband cheating on me and I killed him, I wouldn't need to justify why I did it. It would still be a poor reason, but at least a reason. Am I making sense anymore? :unsure:

The thread itself is now gone from the forums - even though it is posted by a now demodded ken not at all representing jagex in any shape or form.

 

Way to quash any criticism, soviet jagex.

 

Honestly, I really do not see how anyone can still have faith in Jagex anymore...they literally treat their playerbase like crap and think that all forms of criticism as trolling. I really envy players from other games these days, where devs actually listen and resoond. I have so rarely seen any business conduct so unethically as jagex.They're no different from the bankers who stole your money and are living in tax bailed out mansions.

 

Not so originally...jagex go bailed out, players got sold out, there is only profit for those investors and nothing for the players.

Jagex is dead to me.

 

The funny thing about it all..is that all this profit now crap from jagex is a horrible business decision. Jagex and runescape has never had worse pr than those today. No new players are coming and more and more are leaving. The game is probably worth less than it was a year ago.

They're no different from the bankers who stole your money and are living in tax bailed out mansions.

 

Not so originally...jagex go bailed out, players got sold out, there is only profit for those investors and nothing for the players.

Jagex is dead to me.

 

[citation needed]

They're no different from the bankers who stole your money and are living in tax bailed out mansions.

 

Not so originally...jagex go bailed out, players got sold out, there is only profit for those investors and nothing for the players.

Jagex is dead to me.

 

[citation needed]

And also, why wikipedia is dead to me too.

So your proof of a government bailout is where?

The thread itself is now gone from the forums - even though it is posted by a now demodded ken not at all representing jagex in any shape or form.

 

Way to quash any criticism, soviet jagex.

 

Honestly, I really do not see how anyone can still have faith in Jagex anymore...they literally treat their playerbase like crap and think that all forms of criticism as trolling. I really envy players from other games these days, where devs actually listen and resoond. I have so rarely seen any business conduct so unethically as jagex.They're no different from the bankers who stole your money and are living in tax bailed out mansions.

 

Not so originally...jagex go bailed out, players got sold out, there is only profit for those investors and nothing for the players.

Jagex is dead to me.

 

The funny thing about it all..is that all this profit now crap from jagex is a horrible business decision. Jagex and runescape has never had worse pr than those today. No new players are coming and more and more are leaving. The game is probably worth less than it was a year ago.

 

I can still see the thread.

 

Over reaction much?

 

[qfc]285-286-462-63381407[/qfc]

 

We get it. You don't like Jagex. Quit preaching, maybe find a game you like.

 

EDIT: QFC isn't working. Search "The Ultimate Insult 2" on the RSOF.

Not so originally...jagex go bailed out, players got sold out, there is only profit for those investors and nothing for the players.

Jagex is dead to me.

 

The funny thing about it all..is that all this profit now crap from jagex is a horrible business decision. Jagex and runescape has never had worse pr than those today. No new players are coming and more and more are leaving. The game is probably worth less than it was a year ago.

 

You're really gasping for air there. Jagex got bailed out? By who? And there are no new players coming in? Your evidence of this?

 

Jagex isn't going to get any bad PR for this, except from the rampant trolling that goes on in this forum and in other Runescape fansites. In fact I'll go on stand saying nobody outside of Runescape is even going to hear about this, because there are far more important things for gaming websites to talk about than a few unvetted volunteer mods losing what little privileges they had because they talked shit about the company they volunteer for on the forums.

 

Part of the community thinks that Jagex is being tough because none of them have any experience being part of an actual volunteer moderator system, not the barely functioning system Jagex has going. Years back, I couldn't get volunteer moderators to do interviews with me on other MMOs because when they signed up they had to give a signature that they wouldn't talk negatively about the company, same contracts that the employees sign. And if they break the contract, they stand to be sued for damages laid out in the contract. Granted, you'll never get anyone to admit that these exist, because part of the clause also prevents the person from acknowledging that they'd ever signed such an agreement.

 

Like I said in my earlier post, Jagex is one of the most laid back developers when it comes to volunteer moderators, to a fault, and most MMOs don't even bother with such a system anymore because this is the kind of garbage that pops up.

I can still see the thread.

 

Over reaction much?

 

[qfc]285-286-462-63381407[/qfc]

 

We get it. You don't like Jagex. Quit preaching, maybe find a game you like.

 

EDIT: QFC isn't working. Search "The Ultimate Insult 2" on the RSOF.

Well I just did that. It found the ultimate insult with everything hidden, but not the second one. Then I did google, and it found the ultimate insult 2 (moved) and said it was moved to rants, which I thought was funny seeing it doesn't even exist anymore, and then after clicking click here to view thread it just sends you back to the forum home. Can't just someone post screenies or something.

I can still see the thread.

 

Over reaction much?

 

[qfc]285-286-462-63381407[/qfc]

 

We get it. You don't like Jagex. Quit preaching, maybe find a game you like.

 

EDIT: QFC isn't working. Search "The Ultimate Insult 2" on the RSOF.

Well I just did that. It found the ultimate insult with everything hidden, but not the second one. Then I did google, and it found the ultimate insult 2 (moved) and said it was moved to rants, which I thought was funny seeing it doesn't even exist anymore, and then after clicking click here to view thread it just sends you back to the forum home. Can't just someone post screenies or something.

 

The Rant forum doesn't seem to appear until you login. It's at the bottom of page 4. Login and search the user who created the thread and you'll find it.

So your proof of a government bailout is where?

 

He never said government. I think he was implying Jagex ran their game into the ground, sold a huge amount of the game to investors, and now they don't care anymore.

 

That's just my guess as to what he means though.