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Tip.It Times - 28th August 2011


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#41
h3art
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Frankly, the reason I've gotten Membership recently is to escape the Bots and obscenely depressed market for FtP items. It's something I shouldn't have to do - the only thing keeping me playing are the low graphical requirements and people I meet (also a sense of familiarity).

I found a panda and then we bought malt liquor. I hold my malt liquor better than a panda.


And I thought my weekends were good. ._.

#42
obidiah
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New things for F2P have always been added at a very glacial rate. It's only been recently that they seem to have given F2P more than usual - and then stopped.

Artisan workshop, the urns, the dungeoneering skill, the FOG minigame, opening duel arena to F2P, the Great Orb Project, the canoes, a new quest (Bloodpact), the roach stronghold, the Forinthry dungeon, hellhounds despite dropping nothing useful, corrupt dragon, and plenty more. All these things could have been P2P only and stuck the free game in the early RS2 era.

Be grateful for what you have.

Your missing the point the writer meant. He or she asked for obsolete methods in P2P. For example "Bury-X" for F2Pers. Did not ask for a minigame.


The thing is though that significantly increased xp rates is one of the biggest draws for getting members of the lot. I've seen several thread over the years asking is "members worth it" and one of the main arguments for getting members is always yes the xp rates are a lot better.

Now even if you're talking about giving methods that members don't use much, it's still narrowing the gap, so you need to be careful. If the difference is too small, you'll get more people taking the mentality they will complete their free skills before they shell out for members. (which will tend to mean they never get members at all)

I don't believe Xp rates are something which really make much a difference to if someone is drawn in, in the first place. Early players don't have much of a sense of different skilling methods and the very early levels are fairly quick regardless.
- such features are only really of interest to the long term F2P users.

Some F2P users can be quite crafty in making out what they're asking for is something quite small when in fact they're asking for something very specific to make them stop wishing they had members.

As others have said, what the f2P game needs to not deter new users is someway to reduce the botting epidemic. (especially the advertiser bots which are the most immediately visible) Not sure the best answer to that mind you, I believe that ironically one of the reasons that Runescape is more susceptible too bots than most is precisely because it has such an accessible free game. (such that any bot you ban can easily be replaced by 5 more)

#43
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The free version is how they attract new players. Nobody starts as a member, and nobody is going to think "Hm, the free version is missing some things, I think I'll go buy membership", they'll think "Hm, the free version is missing some things, I think I'll go try World of Warcraft". They could give free players some of the things that are obsolete in members, and sure, that means they'll stay free longer, but if they stay longer, chances are they'll be more likely to want to pay for it down the line.


This is complete fallacy. If this really applied then none of us would be subscribing to RS, we’d have all gone to WOW from day 1. We played the free game with its limitations, we liked it and wanted more so we subscribed. We didn’t exceed our expectations by staying F2P then demanding we got more. The main cause of posts like this is that there are some F2Pers who overstay their welcome then start to bite the hand that feeds them.

Look at it like any other game. They offer you a free demo, and if it's good you buy it. Nobody is going to believe a company that puts out a [cabbage]ty demo and says "But if you pay for it, it's the greatest game since Ocarina of Time!". They're going to walk away and go play some other free MMO. Let's be honest, at this point, there are a number of free MMOs that could give RS a run for its money if they develop a bit more.

Improving F2P, even if only a little, would probably benefit their bottom line a hell of a lot more than, say, linking the game to Facebook.


Ditto this.

F2P needs no more improvements apart from getting rid of the bots (which everyone is agreed). We don’t need to provide incentive for people to stay in F2P by providing more. Which MMO’s are you referring to?

#44
XYG
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I liked the article.

I've been F2P the entire time I've played Runescape, mostly because I like being F2P and I'm a casual gamer.

I don't believe that F2P should constantly get updates, considering the fact that we don't pay for the game. These past couple years have been huge for F2P, urns, canoes, Dungeoneering, Fist of Guthix, etc. While I would welcome the Master Runecrafting Robes or the Bonecrusher, I understand that members should get most of the benefits of the game.

I do believe that Jagex has the right to decide whether objects should be for members or not. It's their decision and that's that.

Main problems for F2P right now are the massive amount of bots and RWT spam everywhere.
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#45
Ibcrootbeer
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+1 for bury all... I'd like it for myself cause Dung makes my eyes bleed I still haven't saved enough points for frost tome... and I REALLY want that for ancients... I hate killing dragons, getting 20 bones then clicking each one... (i want bonecrusher too)

Side note, Just think! If they added more to f2p, they could say it takes 10000 hours to complete! hows that for advertisement!

I logged on f2p for about 10 mins the other day, trading with a friend, I reported 15 people at the GE just to ignore them long enough to hear my friend speak... then more showed up...

moar f2p mods plz?

cant be hard to find some f2p merchers who hang around GE... thats where I saw 99% of RWT bots
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#46
jasignhagj
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They need to introduce a longer tutorial; the main reason there are so many spambots it because it literally takes 2 minutes to make a new charterer and get him spamming the GE. There is even a bot that makes new accounts and sends them to the GE for you. If we had a revamped tutorial island that was exciting for newbies and took about 30 minutes, we'd see a lot less spambots.

#47
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F2P needs no more improvements apart from getting rid of the bots (which everyone is agreed). We don’t need to provide incentive for people to stay in F2P by providing more. Which MMO’s are you referring to?

More than half of my clan is playing League of Legends, and on another fansite I use, the administrator got half of its members into Dungeons and Dragons Online. The rest of that fansite is divided between Minecraft (Technically not free), Runescape, or real life (Or any combination of the above).
I haven't played LoL, and DDO is more of a free game than Runescape - You get the bulk of the game and can pay for credits to buy new classes or races and perks like more character slots. It's probably a hell of a lot less accessible than Runescape though, being D&D and all.

This seems to be what the MMO landscape has shifted into though, free/subscription or free/microtransactions, and the free games aren't all pieces of [cabbage] that were coded during a lunch break anymore. Runescape's niche was being a quality free/cheap MMO, and that territory is filling up with new games that don't yet have all of it's problems. That's probably killing the game just as much as bots.
Oh, look at me going wildly off topic :razz:

#48
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F2P has been getting updates a *lot* more regularly recently than it used to, if anything F2Pers should be grateful that they're getting any updates, rather than complaining about the ones that they don't get. Essentially, the article was merely a regurgitated version of http://forum.tip.it/...cant-f2p-have/.

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#49
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I myself am a member as of the writing of this response, but I have spent my fair share of the last 6.5 years of my gameplay as a nonmember. While I do believe in the concept of paying up for the members' game - after all, there IS a REASON it's called members'-only - it is true that nonmembers are lacking quite a bit of content relative to the pace of advancement of members. September's BTS appears to offer several exciting updates - but not a one will be for nonmembers, it would seem. I guess nonmembers are going to have to wait for the "In other news..." at the bottom of a major update in order to get anything. Hey nonmembers, don't fret though - as a member, I've noticed that I've been looking forward to the In other news much more than I have to about 2/3 of the "major" updates this year. To conclude, it is clear that Jagex could do a little more to provide for their free game, but no matter what, if you want the full experience of RuneScape, you're going to have to pay.

#50
Kaida23
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moar f2p mods plz?

cant be hard to find some f2p merchers who hang around GE... thats where I saw 99% of RWT bots

Unfortunately, it wouldn't help much. I saw a p-mod come into the GE once, mute every spambot there and then say "There. That's a bit quieter" (or something such) to let us all know he'd done it. I was happy at first, but within 2 minutes new spambots started popping up. We'd have to have mods standing in the GE and Lumbridge on each world 24/7 doing nothing but muting/banning spambots to eradicate the problem.

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Check out my blog to read the Adventures of a Big Damn (F2P) Hero.


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THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

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#51
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F2P needs no more improvements apart from getting rid of the bots (which everyone is agreed). We don’t need to provide incentive for people to stay in F2P by providing more. Which MMO’s are you referring to?

More than half of my clan is playing League of Legends, and on another fansite I use, the administrator got half of its members into Dungeons and Dragons Online. The rest of that fansite is divided between Minecraft (Technically not free), Runescape, or real life (Or any combination of the above).
I haven't played LoL, and DDO is more of a free game than Runescape - You get the bulk of the game and can pay for credits to buy new classes or races and perks like more character slots. It's probably a hell of a lot less accessible than Runescape though, being D&D and all.

This seems to be what the MMO landscape has shifted into though, free/subscription or free/microtransactions, and the free games aren't all pieces of [cabbage] that were coded during a lunch break anymore. Runescape's niche was being a quality free/cheap MMO, and that territory is filling up with new games that don't yet have all of it's problems. That's probably killing the game just as much as bots.
Oh, look at me going wildly off topic :razz:


If half your clan is playing another game...how come they're still in your clan? :-s . If these games are so free/great/fabulous then why do we see the same posters day in-day out wanting more for F2P? Why don't they just migrate to these games if RS is giving them a raw deal?

Off-topic I did try to sign up for league of legends but it wanted me to download a 1gb file to install and the server is slow as hell. I guess that's better than the cloud based gaming that Jagex has been doing for the past 10 years during their lunchbreaks :roll:

Back on topic this just about sums it up....

F2P has been getting updates a *lot* more regularly recently than it used to, if anything F2Pers should be grateful that they're getting any updates, rather than complaining about the ones that they don't get. Essentially, the article was merely a regurgitated version of http://forum.tip.it/...cant-f2p-have/.



#52
Unb34t4bl3
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I think F2P should be given the King Black Dragon (with a revised F2P drop table). But that's about it.
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#53
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Some F2P users can be quite crafty in making out what they're asking for is something quite small when in fact they're asking for something very specific to make them stop wishing they had members.


That seems like an equally crafty explanation to simply say "Jagex won't change things because they want more money for little effort" Things like changing the mechanics of training across the board, like the tweaking of iron smelting, isn't greed--it's working smart. That update was done without a hitch and was very beneficial to both communities, with P2P still getting the lion's share of the benefit. A mechanic like Bury-X or Scatter-X would be beneficial to f2pers yes, but still preserving EXP rates for Members as well. And I think that is more in spirit with the "F2P is not a demo" mantra that people have adapted recently. I will say though that I'm against P2P content being given to F2P though no matter how obsolete. F2P should not be P2P's workhorse or dumping ground. They didn't allow it with the Pure Essence update, and I don't see why it should be changed now.

Ah well that's my two cents.

If half your clan is playing another game...how come they're still in your clan? :-s .


Just like many people play to pk, or to skill...lots of people play RS to fight in clans. Most of those people are bored with and/or have outgrown what most of the game offers and the only thing they find enjoyable is wars. But you don't have clan wars 24-7 lol.

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#54
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Just like many people play to pk, or to skill...lots of people play RS to fight in clans. Most of those people are bored with and/or have outgrown what most of the game offers and the only thing they find enjoyable is wars. But you don't have clan wars 24-7 lol.


So, they haven't actually left RS then. There's loads of games out there that do combat better than RS.....but...they're still playing RS. Okaayyyyy........... :roll:

#55
Kimberly
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Just like many people play to pk, or to skill...lots of people play RS to fight in clans. Most of those people are bored with and/or have outgrown what most of the game offers and the only thing they find enjoyable is wars. But you don't have clan wars 24-7 lol.


So, they haven't actually left RS then. There's loads of games out there that do combat better than RS.....but...they're still playing RS. Okaayyyyy........... :roll:


It's extremely hard to be a clanner in f2p, most f2p clan mates are heavily pressured into getting members for faster returning times. But quitting is much more real of a fact when you've got only one activity catching your interest. A smidge of innovation, not just in p2p but f2p, could help stave off that quitting feeling. Whether the effort is worth it after a certain number of years is questionable, but I would think you'd want to wring your customers dry as long as possible. And if that means giving F2P a bit of attention every now and then, it seems damn foolish not to.

And pking is nothing like proper clan wars, by the way. They have a different thrill and challenge to them that you just don't get in one on one dummy pking. I'm guessing by the fact that this is hard to believe (judging by your sarcasm) you've never been in a clan, in which case I'd recommend not criticizing what you're struggling to understand.

E: tidied my post a bit

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#56
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So, they haven't actually left RS then. There's loads of games out there that do combat better than RS.....but...they're still playing RS. Okaayyyyy........... :roll:

It's extremely hard to be a clanner in f2p, most f2p clan mates are heavily pressured into getting members for faster returning times. But quitting is much more real of a fact when you've got only one activity catching your interest. A smidge of innovation, not just in p2p but f2p, could help stave off that quitting feeling. Whether the effort is worth it after a certain number of years is questionable, but I would think you'd want to wring your customers dry as long as possible. And if that means giving F2P a bit of attention every now and then, it seems damn foolish not to.

And pking is nothing like proper clan wars, by the way. They have a different thrill and challenge to them that you just don't get in one on one dummy pking. I'm guessing by the fact that this is hard to believe (judging by your sarcasm) you've never been in a clan, in which case I'd recommend not criticizing what you're struggling to understand.

E: tidied my post a bit


Your original point stated that players may stay for one thing i.e. combat. You can do this much better on games like WOW. The solution is simple. I've done the clan thing but anyone can understand this. Obviously you're a little touchy about sarcasm but I'd say pot calling kettle.

#57
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Your original point stated that players may stay for one thing i.e. combat. You can do this much better on games like WOW. The solution is simple. I've done the clan thing but anyone can understand this. Obviously you're a little touchy about sarcasm but I'd say pot calling kettle.


You are completely missing my point, besides the fact that wars and clanning is not your typical one-on-one pvp grudgematch, even in other MMOs...

It's the whole experience of clan wars. He said his clan stuck together for the wars--key word, something they enjoy--but they enjoy the whole experience of League of Legends much more for free. And if there's so little tethering you to the game that you have to pay for but you only enjoy a tenth of it, compared to what's currently out on the market for a better 'value', that's a thread easily broken.

As you said, "anyone can understand this." Why you can't (or refuse to) confuses me.

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#58
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I haven't gotten members for 4 reasons:

1) Jagex is just slow with fixing the botting problem. I mean the skill bots I can understand but why not the spam bots? I'm not going to support a company that doesn't care for its own game anymore.
2) Because it's free and unlimited, I can take as long as I want to complete my goals. Having to pay puts this constant pressure on me, having to be even more efficiency-focused than before. Which is bad, because I want to balance out real life too.
3) I've tried P2P on a different account once. I didn't really prepare much supplies for P2P, so I ended up not being able to do a lot of things. It ended up being an overall worse experience than F2P.
4) A lot of friends I've made are F2Pers, and the clans I'm in at the moment are F2P-based. Becoming P2P will just alienate me from them.

As for updates I've really not cared for them. I just play the game for what it is.

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#59
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why are items like spears and claws p2p only still, f2p have the corrupt dragon spear I don't think giving a rune spear would hurt.

I think skillcapes would hurt f2p, would bring more people to bot imo.





I MUCH prefered things like leaving pickpocket options on guards and other small reminders (duel arena was members only could not enter), than horrible popups like the army axe.
Check it out, huge amount of effort has gone into this massive mod!
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#60
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You are completely missing my point, besides the fact that wars and clanning is not your typical one-on-one pvp grudgematch, even in other MMOs...

It's the whole experience of clan wars. He said his clan stuck together for the wars--key word, something they enjoy--but they enjoy the whole experience of League of Legends much more for free. And if there's so little tethering you to the game that you have to pay for but you only enjoy a tenth of it, compared to what's currently out on the market for a better 'value', that's a thread easily broken.

As you said, "anyone can understand this." Why you can't (or refuse to) confuses me.


Kimberly you seem fixated with me understanding things. I understand enough to know that players would not stick around just for some minimal aspects of the game. Compared to other games combat in RS, wars or otherwise, isn’t great. Players could easily migrate elsewhere for this sort of thing e.g. guild wars which has a free trial. Somehow I don’t believe these players are playing just for the wars and they’re probably playing other games for a change, just as most others do.

On topic, I also understand that improving F2P sufficiently enough to encourage players to stay F2P isn’t good for the game.

Enough with The prissy school ma’am finger wagging attitude. It may work on others but not me.




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