Tip.It Times - 28th August 2011

[Guest jrhairychest]

F2P needs no more improvements apart from getting rid of the bots (which everyone is agreed). We dont need to provide incentive for people to stay in F2P by providing more. Which MMOs are you referring to?

More than half of my clan is playing League of Legends, and on another fansite I use, the administrator got half of its members into Dungeons and Dragons Online. The rest of that fansite is divided between Minecraft (Technically not free), Runescape, or real life (Or any combination of the above).

I haven't played LoL, and DDO is more of a free game than Runescape - You get the bulk of the game and can pay for credits to buy new classes or races and perks like more character slots. It's probably a hell of a lot less accessible than Runescape though, being D&D and all.

 

This seems to be what the MMO landscape has shifted into though, free/subscription or free/microtransactions, and the free games aren't all pieces of [cabbage] that were coded during a lunch break anymore. Runescape's niche was being a quality free/cheap MMO, and that territory is filling up with new games that don't yet have all of it's problems. That's probably killing the game just as much as bots.

Oh, look at me going wildly off topic :razz:

 

If half your clan is playing another game...how come they're still in your clan? :-s . If these games are so free/great/fabulous then why do we see the same posters day in-day out wanting more for F2P? Why don't they just migrate to these games if RS is giving them a raw deal?

 

Off-topic I did try to sign up for league of legends but it wanted me to download a 1gb file to install and the server is slow as hell. I guess that's better than the cloud based gaming that Jagex has been doing for the past 10 years during their lunchbreaks :roll:

 

Back on topic this just about sums it up....

 

F2P has been getting updates a *lot* more regularly recently than it used to, if anything F2Pers should be grateful that they're getting any updates, rather than complaining about the ones that they don't get. Essentially, the article was merely a regurgitated version of http://forum.tip.it/topic/285421-why-cant-f2p-have/.

[Unb34t4bl3]

I think F2P should be given the King Black Dragon (with a revised F2P drop table). But that's about it.

[Kimberly]

Some F2P users can be quite crafty in making out what they're asking for is something quite small when in fact they're asking for something very specific to make them stop wishing they had members.

 

That seems like an equally crafty explanation to simply say "Jagex won't change things because they want more money for little effort" Things like changing the mechanics of training across the board, like the tweaking of iron smelting, isn't greed--it's working smart. That update was done without a hitch and was very beneficial to both communities, with P2P still getting the lion's share of the benefit. A mechanic like Bury-X or Scatter-X would be beneficial to f2pers yes, but still preserving EXP rates for Members as well. And I think that is more in spirit with the "F2P is not a demo" mantra that people have adapted recently. I will say though that I'm against P2P content being given to F2P though no matter how obsolete. F2P should not be P2P's workhorse or dumping ground. They didn't allow it with the Pure Essence update, and I don't see why it should be changed now.

 

Ah well that's my two cents.

 

If half your clan is playing another game...how come they're still in your clan? :-s .

 

Just like many people play to pk, or to skill...lots of people play RS to fight in clans. Most of those people are bored with and/or have outgrown what most of the game offers and the only thing they find enjoyable is wars. But you don't have clan wars 24-7 lol.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Just like many people play to pk, or to skill...lots of people play RS to fight in clans. Most of those people are bored with and/or have outgrown what most of the game offers and the only thing they find enjoyable is wars. But you don't have clan wars 24-7 lol.

 

So, they haven't actually left RS then. There's loads of games out there that do combat better than RS.....but...they're still playing RS. Okaayyyyy........... :roll:

[Kimberly]

Just like many people play to pk, or to skill...lots of people play RS to fight in clans. Most of those people are bored with and/or have outgrown what most of the game offers and the only thing they find enjoyable is wars. But you don't have clan wars 24-7 lol.

 

So, they haven't actually left RS then. There's loads of games out there that do combat better than RS.....but...they're still playing RS. Okaayyyyy........... :roll:

 

It's extremely hard to be a clanner in f2p, most f2p clan mates are heavily pressured into getting members for faster returning times. But quitting is much more real of a fact when you've got only one activity catching your interest. A smidge of innovation, not just in p2p but f2p, could help stave off that quitting feeling. Whether the effort is worth it after a certain number of years is questionable, but I would think you'd want to wring your customers dry as long as possible. And if that means giving F2P a bit of attention every now and then, it seems damn foolish not to.

 

And pking is nothing like proper clan wars, by the way. They have a different thrill and challenge to them that you just don't get in one on one dummy pking. I'm guessing by the fact that this is hard to believe (judging by your sarcasm) you've never been in a clan, in which case I'd recommend not criticizing what you're struggling to understand.

 

E: tidied my post a bit

[Guest jrhairychest]

So, they haven't actually left RS then. There's loads of games out there that do combat better than RS.....but...they're still playing RS. Okaayyyyy........... :roll:

 

It's extremely hard to be a clanner in f2p, most f2p clan mates are heavily pressured into getting members for faster returning times. But quitting is much more real of a fact when you've got only one activity catching your interest. A smidge of innovation, not just in p2p but f2p, could help stave off that quitting feeling. Whether the effort is worth it after a certain number of years is questionable, but I would think you'd want to wring your customers dry as long as possible. And if that means giving F2P a bit of attention every now and then, it seems damn foolish not to.

 

And pking is nothing like proper clan wars, by the way. They have a different thrill and challenge to them that you just don't get in one on one dummy pking. I'm guessing by the fact that this is hard to believe (judging by your sarcasm) you've never been in a clan, in which case I'd recommend not criticizing what you're struggling to understand.

 

E: tidied my post a bit

 

Your original point stated that players may stay for one thing i.e. combat. You can do this much better on games like WOW. The solution is simple. I've done the clan thing but anyone can understand this. Obviously you're a little touchy about sarcasm but I'd say pot calling kettle.

[Kimberly]

Your original point stated that players may stay for one thing i.e. combat. You can do this much better on games like WOW. The solution is simple. I've done the clan thing but anyone can understand this. Obviously you're a little touchy about sarcasm but I'd say pot calling kettle.

 

You are completely missing my point, besides the fact that wars and clanning is not your typical one-on-one pvp grudgematch, even in other MMOs...

 

It's the whole experience of clan wars. He said his clan stuck together for the wars--key word, something they enjoy--but they enjoy the whole experience of League of Legends much more for free. And if there's so little tethering you to the game that you have to pay for but you only enjoy a tenth of it, compared to what's currently out on the market for a better 'value', that's a thread easily broken.

 

As you said, "anyone can understand this." Why you can't (or refuse to) confuses me.

[Youmu]

I haven't gotten members for 4 reasons:

 

1) Jagex is just slow with fixing the botting problem. I mean the skill bots I can understand but why not the spam bots? I'm not going to support a company that doesn't care for its own game anymore.

2) Because it's free and unlimited, I can take as long as I want to complete my goals. Having to pay puts this constant pressure on me, having to be even more efficiency-focused than before. Which is bad, because I want to balance out real life too.

3) I've tried P2P on a different account once. I didn't really prepare much supplies for P2P, so I ended up not being able to do a lot of things. It ended up being an overall worse experience than F2P.

4) A lot of friends I've made are F2Pers, and the clans I'm in at the moment are F2P-based. Becoming P2P will just alienate me from them.

 

As for updates I've really not cared for them. I just play the game for what it is.

[999134]

why are items like spears and claws p2p only still, f2p have the corrupt dragon spear I don't think giving a rune spear would hurt.

 

I think skillcapes would hurt f2p, would bring more people to bot imo.

 

 

 

 

 

I MUCH prefered things like leaving pickpocket options on guards and other small reminders (duel arena was members only could not enter), than horrible popups like the army axe.

[Guest jrhairychest]

You are completely missing my point, besides the fact that wars and clanning is not your typical one-on-one pvp grudgematch, even in other MMOs...

 

It's the whole experience of clan wars. He said his clan stuck together for the wars--key word, something they enjoy--but they enjoy the whole experience of League of Legends much more for free. And if there's so little tethering you to the game that you have to pay for but you only enjoy a tenth of it, compared to what's currently out on the market for a better 'value', that's a thread easily broken.

 

As you said, "anyone can understand this." Why you can't (or refuse to) confuses me.

 

Kimberly you seem fixated with me understanding things. I understand enough to know that players would not stick around just for some minimal aspects of the game. Compared to other games combat in RS, wars or otherwise, isnt great. Players could easily migrate elsewhere for this sort of thing e.g. guild wars which has a free trial. Somehow I dont believe these players are playing just for the wars and theyre probably playing other games for a change, just as most others do.

 

On topic, I also understand that improving F2P sufficiently enough to encourage players to stay F2P isnt good for the game.

 

Enough with The prissy school maam finger wagging attitude. It may work on others but not me.

[Kimberly]

Somehow I don’t believe these players are playing just for the wars and they’re probably playing other games for a change, just as most others do.

 

I can't very well grab you by the shirt and have you talk to my former clanmates, of who only sticks around for the wars and their clan's individual community. And I certainly can't go back in time through the 4 years I've been in clans to have you speak with the individuals I've met over time who stuck around just for the wars and played things like WoW--not for a change of pace but because they enjoyed the overall game more and got a better value for their money. You can think that these people are playing other games, not because of flaws in the F2P and P2P models, but because they simply wanted a 'change'. You might even be right. Lord knows, I have no documentation to prove anything and neither do you.

 

But clinging to that belief and denying the problems, not understanding why people get upset, and then calling it into question as a way to defend your beliefs...it doesn't get you anywhere. "Fingerwagging" and all, even I can see that's poor form.

[Guest jrhairychest]

I can't very well grab you by the shirt and have you talk to my former clanmates, of who only sticks around for the wars and their clan's individual community. And I certainly can't go back in time through the 4 years I've been in clans to have you speak with the individuals I've met over time who stuck around just for the wars and played things like WoW--not for a change of pace but because they enjoyed the overall game more and got a better value for their money. You can think that these people are playing other games, not because of flaws in the F2P and P2P models, but because they simply wanted a 'change'. You might even be right. Lord knows, I have no documentation to prove anything and neither do you.

 

But clinging to that belief and denying the problems, not understanding why people get upset, and then calling it into question as a way to defend your beliefs...it doesn't get you anywhere. "Fingerwagging" and all, even I can see that's poor form.

 

Actually I dont believe you at all regarding players who just stick around for the wars. My main focus are certain elements of the game but that doesnt mean I ignore other aspects. Why would someone pay to play only one aspect of a large game? I dont need to prove that many players play other games for a change, because I know they do. You only have to stand in busy areas and watch conversations where players are discussing other games they play and those on my friends list have done. And yes, if I dont fancy playing RS tonight Ill play something else.

 

The problems you are talking about concern more wider elements of the game which are off topic. The topic was about giving F2P more by giving them aspects of members considered obsolete. Ive explained those reasons why its not good on a number of posts so I'm not denying problems, clinging to some sort of belief or anything else you want to accuse me of. Incidentally the author of the article posted before about wanting dragon items into F2P and didnt see why this was an issue so you can see its the same old story of wanting something for nothing. Do you see nothing wrong with a portion of the community wanting more for free who have no intention of joining members, or only do it for a limited time, so they contribute little or nothing to the game? If Im given something for nothing I dont question it, moan about it or complain how crap it is. What we have got are some spoiled brats who think RS owes them something instead of appreciating what they have with no time restrictions.

 

Interesting that you call my approach bad form, yet your own attitude is questionable. Just because youre a moderator doesnt mean Ill agree with you or that everything you say is set in stone. Yet youll happily butt in and answer for another poster and because I dont agree with you youll finger wag and lecture about me not understanding you. The better moderators Ive seen dont do that. They change their approach if they think the poster doesnt understand and they dont assume that the poster is some sort of thicko.