Do YOU believe in God?

[Guest GhostRanger]

It's not even about his reasons making sense to him. I understand that. But his quote is outright wrong and illogical. It has nothing to do with his beliefs.

 

 

 

I was referring to you saying this:

 

 

 

I think we have proven that history has little to do with god

 

 

 

You haven't proven anything. Neither side has.

[pianofrieak2]

It's not even about his reasons making sense to him. I understand that. But his quote is outright wrong and illogical. It has nothing to do with his beliefs.

 

 

 

[-X Wrong. Your god, who you listen to for your moral compass, is yourself. Thus, your god is yourself.

[Godzira]

It's not even about his reasons making sense to him. I understand that. But his quote is outright wrong and illogical. It has nothing to do with his beliefs.

 

 

 

I was referring to you saying this:

 

 

 

I think we have proven that history has little to do with god

 

 

 

You haven't proven anything. Neither side has.

 

 

 

You are right if we are talking about the history of the Christian world. But as IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m sure you are aware, Christian history is only a very small slice of total world history, not even counting pre-history, The world has been under the influence of many religions or even no religion at all depending on the region. Currently the Hinduistic religions make up around 32% of the world population, Christianity make up about 33%, Islam 21% (But it is growing much faster than the others), and agnostics make up about 16% of the total not including those that are non practicing in the other religions. So yes I can prove that the Christian godÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s impact on history is negligible. Even in todayÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s world the Christians are under half of the total world wide and 2 millennia ago they didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t even exist.

[pianofrieak2]

Actually, you're wrong again. Christianity is an off-shoot of Judaism. Judaism is still looking for its Messiah to enter into the scene whereas Christianity says that Messiah is Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

Christianity and Judaism were the same thing back before Jesus was born. Then it became an off-shoot.

[Godzira]

It's not even about his reasons making sense to him. I understand that. But his quote is outright wrong and illogical. It has nothing to do with his beliefs.

 

 

 

[-X Wrong. Your god, who you listen to for your moral compass, is yourself. Thus, your god is yourself.

 

 

 

Wrong again. I am not my own god. I do not need a god to tell me what I should do. Logic guides my choices and logic is not a god it is simply on informational system. No gods, or angels, or anything of the sort required.

[Guest GhostRanger]

It's not even about his reasons making sense to him. I understand that. But his quote is outright wrong and illogical. It has nothing to do with his beliefs.

 

 

 

I was referring to you saying this:

 

 

 

I think we have proven that history has little to do with god

 

 

 

You haven't proven anything. Neither side has.

 

 

 

You are right if we are talking about the history of the Christian world. But as IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m sure you are aware, Christian history is only a very small slice of total world history, not even counting pre-history, The world has been under the influence of many religions or even no religion at all depending on the region. Currently the Hinduistic religions make up around 32% of the world population, Christianity make up about 33%, Islam 21% (But it is growing much faster than the others), and agnostics make up about 16% of the total not including those that are non practicing in the other religions. So yes I can prove that the Christian godÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s impact on history is negligible. Even in todayÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s world the Christians are under half of the total world wide and 2 millennia ago they didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t even exist.

 

 

 

Your original quote was about God, and then you started talking about religions and their prominence in history. I'm afraid those are two different things. You can prove that a religion exists - you can't prove if God exists. The point remains that you can't prove whether or not God influenced history or not.

 

 

 

Wrong again. I am not my own god. I do not need a god to tell me what I should do. Logic guides my choices and logic is not a god it is simply on informational system. No gods, or angels, or anything of the sort required.

 

 

 

You can only use logic to a certain point when deciding if something is right or wrong. In the end, you have to decide what is right and what is wrong. Logic will only take you so far.

 

 

 

For instance, logically - I could say that since I don't believe in right or wrong - it's perfectly acceptable for me to steal from other people. That's logical based on what I believe. But how you decide what you believe isn't logical - it's just what you believe.

[Godzira]

Actually, you're wrong again. Christianity is an off-shoot of Judaism. Judaism is still looking for its Messiah to enter into the scene whereas Christianity says that Messiah is Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

Christianity and Judaism were the same thing back before Jesus was born. Then it became an off-shoot.

 

 

 

IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m fully aware that Christianity is an offshoot :roll: , but before Christ there where no Christians only Jews and they are not the same. If they were, they wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have spent so much time killing each other over the years.

[pianofrieak2]

Do you care to logically answer our questions on dermining morality concerning homosexuality, especially me and Ghost's comments?

[Godzira]

God and religion are not separate things. Religion is god. I assume that you are speaking of the Christian god. That being what it is, that god has not been around for very long at all. That was the point.

 

 

 

As far as your logic argument, if you feel that there is no right and wrong than you should steal. YouÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll end up in jail, but go ahead. My logic tells me that in order for me to prosper, my fellow man must prosper. So, I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t plan on stealing anything any time soon. Plus, I know I wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t want something stolen from me, and empathy is another tool of rationalization that does not require a personal god.

[Guest GhostRanger]

God and religion are not separate things. Religion is god. I assume that you are speaking of the Christian god. That being what it is, that god has not been around for very long at all. That was the point.

 

 

 

As far as your logic argument, if you feel that there is no right and wrong than you should steal. YouÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll end up in jail, but go ahead. My logic tells me that in order for me to prosper, my fellow man must prosper. So, I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t plan on stealing anything any time soon. Plus, I know I wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t want something stolen from me, and empathy is another tool of rationalization that does not require a personal god.

 

 

 

1) God and religion are seperate things. Religion is mostly man-made. Religion is how you worship God. God is not religion.

 

 

 

2) Logically deciding not to do something so you can prosper has NOTHING to do with right or wrong. You are merely deciding what suits your best interest. We're talking about deciding right or wrong. When you look at something and say "that's wrong," you are making a decision based on something you believe. Logic might help you arrive to the decision, but ultimately, it has to be based on your personal belief.

[pianofrieak2]

Thank you, Ghost. Actually, let me take this logic argument further.

 

 

 

If you don't believe in God, then you are merely an animal with impulses. But how do you know what impulse to obey? All impulses claim to be satisfied at the expense of every other impulse.

 

 

 

For instance, if you want a piece of candy, one impulse says to steal it. It'll be fun, exciting, and won't be a big deal. The other impulse says to pay for it because it's the right thing to do. Oh, wait. We can't use the word right. Because it will be beneficial to the 7-11 market and, eventually, be a part of the macroeconomic system in the United States. Why do so many people pay for their stuff? It doesn't make any logical sense.

 

 

 

Your 65 cent candy bar plays virtually no role in the global market. Yet we have a morality that says stealing is wrong.

 

 

 

Besides, your comment about protecting your fellow man: If you actually looked at that logically, you would be giving all of your money to the kids in Africa who have no food. How much do you give to the kids in Africa? If you're such a logical person...

[Godzira]

1) Can you have god without religion? How about religion without god? Examples?

 

 

 

2) Right and wrong is always up for debate. If my family was starving stealing would be right. I realize that you are troubled by the idea that personal decisions are based on selfish choices but I am not.

[pianofrieak2]

1) Can you have god without religion? How about religion without god? Examples?

 

 

 

2) Right and wrong is always up for debate. If my family was starving stealing would be right. I realize that you are troubled by the idea that personal decisions are based on selfish choices but I am not.

 

 

 

But being selfish is logical. People really only care about protecting their young. Their family. Their kids and grandkids. :-s But people always look down upon selfishness, which is illogical. And since you esteem logic so high...what's your point exactly?

[Godzira]

Thank you, Ghost. Actually, let me take this logic argument further.

 

 

 

If you don't believe in God, then you are merely an animal with impulses. But how do you know what impulse to obey? All impulses claim to be satisfied at the expense of every other impulse.

 

 

 

For instance, if you want a piece of candy, one impulse says to steal it. It'll be fun, exciting, and won't be a big deal. The other impulse says to pay for it because it's the right thing to do. Oh, wait. We can't use the word right. Because it will be beneficial to the 7-11 market and, eventually, be a part of the macroeconomic system in the United States. Why do so many people pay for their stuff? It doesn't make any logical sense.

 

 

 

Your 65 cent candy bar plays virtually no role in the global market. Yet we have a morality that says stealing is wrong.

 

 

 

Besides, your comment about protecting your fellow man: If you actually looked at that logically, you would be giving all of your money to the kids in Africa who have no food. How much do you give to the kids in Africa? If you're such a logical person...

 

 

 

ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s a matter of balance. I do donate my money and time quite a bit but I would never ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Ågive all my money to kids in AfricaÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[Guest GhostRanger]

1) Can you have god without religion? How about religion without god? Examples?

 

 

 

2) Right and wrong is always up for debate. If my family was starving stealing would be right. I realize that you are troubled by the idea that personal decisions are based on selfish choices but I am not.

 

 

 

1) I have several friends who believe there is a God and don't follow a religion. In fact, I'm about to go play Ultimate Frisbee with one of them.

 

 

 

2) I'm not troubled by you making personal decisions based on selfish choices. The point I'm making is that you are still making choices based on what you believe. You can't decide right and wrong based on logic - it's something you believe. I don't care what your definition of right and wrong is - that's not my point. My point is that right and wrong is decided by your own personal belief (for you).

[pianofrieak2]

If you want to make the species survive better, why live comfortably when you can save more lives?

[Godzira]

1) Can you have god without religion? How about religion without god? Examples?

 

 

 

2) Right and wrong is always up for debate. If my family was starving stealing would be right. I realize that you are troubled by the idea that personal decisions are based on selfish choices but I am not.

 

 

 

1) I have several friends who believe there is a God and don't follow a religion. In fact, I'm about to go play Ultimate Frisbee with one of them.

 

 

 

2) I'm not troubled by you making personal decisions based on selfish choices. The point I'm making is that you are still making choices based on what you believe. You can't decide right and wrong based on logic - it's something you believe. I don't care what your definition of right and wrong is - that's not my point. My point is that right and wrong is decided by your own personal belief (for you).

 

 

 

1. What god does he believe in? His own god?

 

2. lol Belief does not equate to got. Your problem is that you do not understand that you can have your own beliefs independent of a god.

[Guest GhostRanger]

1) Can you have god without religion? How about religion without god? Examples?

 

 

 

2) Right and wrong is always up for debate. If my family was starving stealing would be right. I realize that you are troubled by the idea that personal decisions are based on selfish choices but I am not.

 

 

 

1) I have several friends who believe there is a God and don't follow a religion. In fact, I'm about to go play Ultimate Frisbee with one of them.

 

 

 

2) I'm not troubled by you making personal decisions based on selfish choices. The point I'm making is that you are still making choices based on what you believe. You can't decide right and wrong based on logic - it's something you believe. I don't care what your definition of right and wrong is - that's not my point. My point is that right and wrong is decided by your own personal belief (for you).

 

 

 

1. What god does he believe in? His own god?

 

2. lol Belief does not equate to got. Your problem is that you do not understand that you can have your own beliefs independent of a god.

 

 

 

1) He believes there is a higher being out there who created us. He could care less about religion though.

 

 

 

2) I wasn't the one making the point about God. You said you decide right and wrong based on logic and I said that's wrong. You decide based on your own personal beliefs.

[Godzira]

Yes but my personal beliefs are based on logic.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

Yes but my personal beliefs are based on logic.

 

 

 

What is your point?

[Godzira]

Yes but my personal beliefs are based on logic.

 

 

 

What is your point?

 

 

 

Q; You said you decide right and wrong based on logic and I said that's wrong. You decide based on your own personal beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

A; Yes but my personal beliefs are based on logic.

 

 

 

This should be obvious

[pianofrieak2]

How do you know your beliefs are logical?

[Godzira]

How do you know your beliefs are logical?

 

 

 

Logic is defined thus : 1 a (1) : a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning

 

 

 

By that definition, my beliefs are logical as a result of the thought and empirical processes that I use to arrive at my open ended conclutions on which my beliefs are based.

[pianofrieak2]

How do you know your beliefs are logical?

 

 

 

Logic is defined thus : 1 a (1) : a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning

 

 

 

By that definition, my beliefs are logical as a result of the thought and empirical processes that I use to arrive at my open ended conclutions on which my beliefs are based.

 

 

 

reasoning towards what cause? Obviously something that your beliefs value.

[Godzira]

I reason toward the answer to a question. Not toward something I value as that is dictated as part of the answer.