Do YOU believe in God?

[bull912000]

I'm sorry, but I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT GOD EXIST. If I didn't then I wouldn't be Christian.

[Godzira]

You're missing the point. You feel that god is a fact. But, to really be a fact it must be universally proven and recognizable by the majority. That is the definition of a fact. God is not a fact by definition so by claiming that he is you are only impacting your own credibility because you are claiming something that is easily proven not to be true. Whether or not god actually exists he is not a fact.

[Satenza]

God is all powerful correct? Then God could have allowed humans to freely choose to do Good all the time correct?

 

 

 

If God exists he is not a perfect designer. Insane saying atehists are selfish and wan't a care free lifestyle is rather rude. Not very sitting in a logical debate.

 

 

 

As for heaven and hell, i disagree that faith alone is the sole reason for getting into heaven. Faith alone lets murderers and rapists into heaven because they have faith in God. If God truley was a God of love it would let everyone in. After all he is all forgiving. He would forgive those who chose not to beleive in this life.

 

 

 

If God was truley dedicated to those who were mostly Good on earth he would allow the mostly good people into heaven.

 

 

 

In my opinion the Christain God is the biggest contradiction of all, the bible is not true storys, the bible is a collection of sotries which show humans how to live a good life. The book in itself probably by a very good author. It's a work of fiction, it may base itself around actual events that are hiistorically proven. There were many people at the time claiming to be the sons of God. Does anything about Jesus really show he is the son of Godor is he mortal? We can safley and logically rule out miracles never happened. So taking his supernatural powers away he is human.

 

 

 

As someone said earlier the more i read, study and learn the more Christianity seems totally unreasonable and unlogical.

[Satenza]

I'm sorry, but I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT GOD EXIST. If I didn't then I wouldn't be Christian.

 

 

 

I find that very unlikley. For something to be a FACT it must be knowledge. Knwledge entails justified true beleif. This means that your beleif must be Justified universally. Is it? It must be true universally. Is it?

 

 

 

If so you have made an astonishing break through wich will change the world if not then don'tsay thing's like that because there is absolutley no Fact about it seeing as it will not be justified true beleif.

[logic-is-overrated]

3).Let me go back to one of my earlier statements. If you are trying to cross a gap that is too larg to jump accross yet there is a rope to be able to swing on to get accross; you would much rather swing accross the rope than jump accross youself.

If this is in response to this:

 

3.)What I want to know is why should I, the layman, accept christianity as true and not any other religion, or not any religion at all? Archeaological, historical, scientific, etc. Like I said before, all religion requires a leap of faith. What I want to know is why should anybody make that leap of faith?

Which I'm assuming it is, because of the numbering, then quite simply-no. That has no relevance to anything.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT GOD EXIST. If I didn't then I wouldn't be Christian.

And what I've been asking is, where did this certainty come from? Is it because you were brought up in the church and therefore indoctrinated? If so, then it's pointless because you're not any different than any other person indoctrinated into any other religion. Is it because you blindly accept what you are taught? If so, then no. Living according to a belief on blind faith is ignorant. Is it because you've made some attempt to exam your belief system through a rational thought process and have been convinced that christianity is true? If so, then that is what I want to know. Why are you so convinced?

 

 

 

I want to reiterate that I'm not trying to attack christianity or any person in particular. I really do want to know why you believe the things you believe.

[Satenza]

I'm sorry, but I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT GOD EXIST. If I didn't then I wouldn't be Christian.

 

 

 

No christians beleive in God eisting they do not know it for fact. Thats why they take their leap of faith, thats what faith is beleiving in God without facts. So what are you on about?

[pianofrieak2]

I'm sorry, but I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT GOD EXIST. If I didn't then I wouldn't be Christian.

 

 

 

No christians beleive in God eisting they do not know it for fact. Thats why they take their leap of faith, thats what faith is beleiving in God without facts. So what are you on about?

 

 

 

Well, actually, I also know that Christianity is true.

 

1. I could cite different evidence, but then we just get into our argument of "my proof v. your proof"

 

2. The change I have had in my heart after accepting Christ.

 

3. It makes sense, something rare in today's religions.

 

4. I can feel close to God and feel His presence when I worship Him.

 

 

 

Christianity is about that "leap of faith" but once you've taken it, then everything falls into place perfectly.

[Godzira]

 

3. It makes sense, something rare in today's religions.

 

 

 

 

Makes sense to you, quite frankly other religions make a LOT more sense to other people. How can you really say this anyway? How you studied all other religions?

[Austerlitz]

I'm sorry, but I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT GOD EXIST. If I didn't then I wouldn't be Christian.

 

 

 

No christians beleive in God eisting they do not know it for fact. Thats why they take their leap of faith, thats what faith is beleiving in God without facts. So what are you on about?

 

 

 

Well, actually, I also know that Christianity is true.

 

1. I could cite different evidence, but then we just get into our argument of "my proof v. your proof"

 

2. The change I have had in my heart after accepting Christ.

 

3. It makes sense, something rare in today's religions.

 

4. I can feel close to God and feel His presence when I worship Him.

 

 

 

Christianity is about that "leap of faith" but once you've taken it, then everything falls into place perfectly.

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't make anysense for me. :?

[pianofrieak2]

If it doesn't make sense to you, you must not know enough. That's hardly an excuse.

 

 

 

If other religions make more sense to other people, then I would say they don't know enough about their religion.

 

 

 

Fact-something that is true in all cases for all people at all times. How many people know about it is irrelevant, as two of you have tried to argue.

 

 

 

I was merely telling logic-is-overrated why I'm a Christian. Don't attack my reasons because they don't make sense. That's ridiculous and stupid since it's my personal viewpoint. We've been talking 76 pages on Christianity, so please, if you're confused, go back and read the past 76 pages. :roll:

 

 

 

God is all powerful correct? Then God could have allowed humans to freely choose to do Good all the time correct?

 

 

 

If God exists he is not a perfect designer. Insane saying atehists are selfish and wan't a care free lifestyle is rather rude. Not very sitting in a logical debate.

 

 

 

As for heaven and hell, i disagree that faith alone is the sole reason for getting into heaven. Faith alone lets murderers and rapists into heaven because they have faith in God. If God truley was a God of love it would let everyone in. After all he is all forgiving. He would forgive those who chose not to beleive in this life.

 

 

 

If God was truley dedicated to those who were mostly Good on earth he would allow the mostly good people into heaven.

 

 

 

In my opinion the Christain God is the biggest contradiction of all, the bible is not true storys, the bible is a collection of sotries which show humans how to live a good life. The book in itself probably by a very good author. It's a work of fiction, it may base itself around actual events that are hiistorically proven. There were many people at the time claiming to be the sons of God. Does anything about Jesus really show he is the son of Godor is he mortal? We can safley and logically rule out miracles never happened. So taking his supernatural powers away he is human.

 

 

 

As someone said earlier the more i read, study and learn the more Christianity seems totally unreasonable and unlogical.

 

 

 

Actually I would agree with insane in how atheists choose to be atheists because they don't want someone to be over them. If you want to be selfish, then go New Age and look to the godhead within. Do whatever you want. There are plenty of religions like that.

 

 

 

You commented on God and letting rapists enter heaven. We've already addressed your topic but you think you know everything. God is a God of love so He WOULDN'T let rapists in? I'm confused. Oh, and since God is God, He makes the rules. If one of the rules is to believe in Him for salvation alone (i.e. jealousy. The Bible says God is a jealous God and wants all of our undivided love) then that's the rule and you have to play by his rules. His rules have consequences. *d'oh*

 

 

 

Besides, God forgives. He forgives those who have sin if they enter into the covenant for salvation. If you don't enter into the covenant, God doesn't forgive your sins. Pretty basic stuff.

 

 

 

Your comment on good also makes no sense. The Bible says that we are to do good because we WANT to. We have a changed heart that is now fixed upon God and upon people. Not upon ourselves. Don't be ridiculous in saying works get you into heaven. Since you all read signatures so well, read my new one. Or answer the questions me, Astra, and insane have brought up.

 

 

 

And when can we rule our miracles? Those make up a large portion of the Bible. Your comment on "we can safely rule those out" makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

 

Try reading 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

[Satenza]

[quote name="pianofrieak2"

 

 

 

God is all powerful correct? Then God could have allowed humans to freely choose to do Good all the time correct?

 

 

 

If God exists he is not a perfect designer. Insane saying atehists are selfish and wan't a care free lifestyle is rather rude. Not very sitting in a logical debate.

 

 

 

As for heaven and hell' date=' i disagree that faith alone is the sole reason for getting into heaven. Faith alone lets murderers and rapists into heaven because they have faith in God. If God truley was a God of love it would let everyone in. After all he is all forgiving. He would forgive those who chose not to beleive in this life.

 

 

 

If God was truley dedicated to those who were mostly Good on earth he would allow the mostly good people into heaven.

 

 

 

In my opinion the Christain God is the biggest contradiction of all, the bible is not true storys, the bible is a collection of sotries which show humans how to live a good life. The book in itself probably by a very good author. It's a work of fiction, it may base itself around actual events that are hiistorically proven. There were many people at the time claiming to be the sons of God. Does anything about Jesus really show he is the son of Godor is he mortal? We can safley and logically rule out miracles never happened. So taking his supernatural powers away he is human.

 

 

 

As someone said earlier the more i read, study and learn the more Christianity seems totally unreasonable and unlogical.[/quote]

 

 

 

Actually I would agree with insane in how atheists choose to be atheists because they don't want someone to be over them. If you want to be selfish, then go New Age and look to the godhead within. Do whatever you want. There are plenty of religions like that.

 

 

 

K, i could start bashing and making generalisations about your religion now couldn't I. However i would not stoop to that level. Claiming we are selfish because we do not wan't someone over us. That pretty much rules out all atheist debates now doesn't it. You think all atheists are selfish if so they you obviously have no clue about atheism what-so-ever.

 

 

 

You commented on God and letting rapists enter heaven. We've already addressed your topic but you think you know everything. God is a God of love so He WOULDN'T let rapists in? I'm confused.

 

 

 

No i am adressing your point that you said deeds here do not get you into heaven. Therefore faith must k? Then i expressed another critisism of how God if being all loving would infact allow everyone in as he would forgive all.

 

 

 

Oh, and since God is God, He makes the rules. If one of the rules is to believe in Him for salvation alone (i.e. jealousy. The Bible says God is a jealous God and wants all of our undivided love) then that's the rule and you have to play by his rules. His rules have consequences. *d'oh*

 

 

 

Your now contradiction the idea of God being personal. If he was personal he would be jealous. Since God does not interfere in our lives we can take it he is not personal and so is not jealous. Anyway jealousy is a sin, and so your saying Gid being perfect sins?

 

 

 

Besides, God forgives. He forgives those who have sin if they enter into the covenant for salvation. If you don't enter into the covenant, God doesn't forgive your sins. Pretty basic stuff.

 

 

 

Ok what happens if you do not enter this 'conevant of sins'? Your chucked into hell. Seems she is pretty angry with those to sentance them to infinity getting tourchered. What maker would do that to their own?

 

 

 

Your comment on good also makes no sense. The Bible says that we are to do good because we WANT to. We have a changed heart that is now fixed upon God and upon people. Not upon ourselves. Don't be ridiculous in saying works get you into heaven. Since you all read signatures so well, read my new one. Or answer the questions me, Astra, and insane have brought up.

 

 

 

Yes it does.God being perfect, limitless could have created humanity to freely choose Good. Meaning that humans would choose Good freely all the time. If yousay God can not do this, your limiting his power. If your saying he can do this but chose not to. Then he is the reason why we have sin and therefore moral evil.

 

 

 

And when can we rule our miracles? Those make up a large portion of the Bible. Your comment on "we can safely rule those out" makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

 

Just becasue they make up a large part of a book of fiction does not make them true. Infact i actually said 'logically we can safley rule those out'. Talking logic, natural order miracles can't exist. Since you and nobody else has factual evidence therefore universal. They logically do not exist.

 

 

 

Try reading 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

[Mercifull]

Most Atheists are not so because they dont want to be "controlled" by a superior being, they are atheists because there is no evidence to support the claims made by religious texts and clerics.

[Death_By_Pod]

Most Atheists are not so because they dont want to be "controlled" by a superior being, they are atheists because there is no evidence to support the claims made by religious texts and clerics.

 

 

 

I would like to add that there are a fair number of atheists (despite what the name suggests) out there that would support a religion if there were indisputable evidence for it. The problem remains that such a proof would be impossible to produce, hence the existence of the term atheist. If a proof was possible I speculate that there wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t be such a thing as an atheist, it would be like denying the existence of the atom or gravity (sheer stupidity).

[Godzira]

If it doesn't make sense to you, you must not know enough. That's hardly an excuse.

 

 

 

If other religions make more sense to other people, then I would say they don't know enough about their religion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. We must not know enough. For someone with no evidence, just sweeping generalizations, you are being extremely condescending.

 

 

 

To be quite frank I know more about the bible (yes I have read it from cover to cover and I do understand it) and basic Christian history than most Christians do. I am not Christian however because even though I can recognize the benefits of the religion to specific individuals, there is simply no way for me to believe that it is anything more than a bunch or moralistic stories. For me to believe that there is more to it I would need some solid well interpreted data which is really non existent at this point.

 

 

 

I do not think that my views are irrational or the result of lack of knowledge on the subject. On the contrary, when presented with evidence I have and will research that evidence in depth and if I find it to be true I would certainly adjust my view to incorporate that evidence. This is much more than most of the religious debaters are willing to do I might add.

 

 

 

DonÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t assume that because I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t agree with you, that I am uneducated on the subject because that is simply not the case.

[pianofrieak2]

If you've read any of my other posts, you would see why I don't like repeating myself to accomodate your "sweeping generalizations." It seems to me that we're already done debating big topics.

 

 

 

Instead of quoting people's sayings, let's just remark on the nature of God. That way nobody gets offended! :?

 

 

 

(Hint: I will use the Biblical God to argue. I will use the Bible.)

 

 

 

1. God is good. By His nature, He is good. He can only do good things. Therefore, don't blame bad things on God since God does no bad. Acts 10:38 I believe is what you're looking for.

 

 

 

2. God is just. Because He is just, you can't just waltz right into heaven because you're more good than bad. That's just plain ridiculous. God is just and you must have consequences for your actions. Christians are forgiven because they entered into the blood covenant between Jesus and the Father. Thus, as a part of that covenant, you give your life to God and God takes your sins and cleanses them with the blood of Jesus. When God sees you, He sees His perfect Son. Thus, you are able to enter into heaven, where the perfect holy God is. Christians will still face punishments for their actions, for God is just, but that comes before you enter heaven. Ask good theologians for the specifics.

 

 

 

3. God is merciful. The only reason you even have a CHANCE at heaven is because He's merciful and loving. He wants everyone to enter heaven but, obviously, it's not going to heaven. That's where you have the dichotomy of divine wills. (No one cares about that)

 

 

 

4. God is holy. Thus, He cannot be in close contact with sin. In fact, He can't be anywhere near sin. Thus, if you have even one sin, you are automatically denied heaven. Unless, of course, you have a way to get rid of all of your sin (i.e. The Christian message) See point 1.

 

 

 

5. God is jealous. God does not want your love and devotion going to another god. He is the only true God. If you're Buddhist or atheistic, your god is certainly not the true God. Atheists have their gods as themselves. Muslims have their god as Allah. It makes no difference seeing as it's not the real God. He wants you to be sold out for Him.

 

 

 

6. God is love. You are His creation and He wants your love. He created you to love and be loved. God in His perfect trinitarian shape needs nothing but He wanted you. He chose you as His beautiful creation.

 

 

 

7. God is personal. He talks to you, for the Bible says, "My sheep hear my voice." You can't hear a voice if that voice doesn't speak. Thus, God speaks. Audibly? Perhaps, but more like impressions on your heart. He performs miracles, even today. Physical, emotional, or spiritual. All types for all types of people. Some may argue that they haven't seen any, but that's like saying I haven't seen any Asian people so they don't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

Satenza said that God is love, so He would let anyone who was "good" into heaven. But God's definition of good is perfect. Thus, no one is good and all are condemned.

 

 

 

He also said that jealousy is a sin, but there can be a righteous jealousy. Does an honorable husband stand by while this other man is hitting on his wife? Heck no. Thus, there are two types of jealousy.

 

 

 

Gotta go to work :)

[Godzira]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

 

-- Stephen Roberts

[Satenza]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

 

-- Stephen Roberts

 

 

 

Brilliant quote.

[yomom1919]

i have a question for atheists:

 

how does it feel to believe your going to die and thats it? how does it feel believing you will eventually perish for good? and never be anything again for all infinity?

 

just asking, i was curious.

[pianofrieak2]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

 

-- Stephen Roberts

 

 

 

Interesting quote. But what's wrong with one God being the one true God? I don't get it. I guess I'm just too indoctrinated to think straight. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

Here's my response:

 

 

 

"I contend that we are both theists. You just believe in a different god than I. When you compare history with your god, then you will understand why I believe in mine."

[bjbj1991]

i have a question for atheists:

 

how does it feel to believe your going to die and thats it? how does it feel believing you will eventually perish for good? and never be anything again for all infinity?

 

just asking, i was curious.

 

 

 

I dont worry about death at all. I understand that this life is my only, so I avoid testing the limits of the legal system. I also understand that the only way to imortality (being rememberd long after death) is to make a diffrence, this encurages me to be productive in society.

 

 

 

To be honest, the concept of imortality scares me. I would never want to live forever in any Universe. I do not know why someone would wish for imortality.

[Mercifull]

i have a question for atheists:

 

how does it feel to believe your going to die and thats it? how does it feel believing you will eventually perish for good? and never be anything again for all infinity?

 

just asking, i was curious.

Actually its a positive thing. Knowing that I have only one true life motivates me to really do something for society and not selfishly just for myself.

[zelot]

i have a question for atheists:

 

how does it feel to believe your going to die and thats it? how does it feel believing you will eventually perish for good? and never be anything again for all infinity?

 

just asking, i was curious.

 

 

 

I dont worry about death at all. I understand that this life is my only, so I avoid testing the limits of the legal system. I also understand that the only way to imortality (being rememberd long after death) is to make a diffrence, this encurages me to be productive in society.

 

 

 

To be honest, the concept of imortality scares me. I would never want to live forever in any Universe. I do not know why someone would wish for imortality.

 

 

 

 

 

Beautifully said :D

 

 

 

 

 

~ZeLoT~

[Godzira]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

 

-- Stephen Roberts

 

 

 

Interesting quote. But what's wrong with one God being the one true God? I don't get it. I guess I'm just too indoctrinated to think straight. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

Here's my response:

 

 

 

"I contend that we are both theists. You just believe in a different god than I. When you compare history with your god, then you will understand why I believe in mine."

 

 

 

Your reworking of a wonderful quote is nonsensical. I do not believe in a different god than you, I believe in NO god. In addition, I think we have proven that history has little to do with god except for providing us with a running social commentary of the times when the theistic works were compiled.

[Guest GhostRanger]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

 

-- Stephen Roberts

 

 

 

Interesting quote. But what's wrong with one God being the one true God? I don't get it. I guess I'm just too indoctrinated to think straight. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

Here's my response:

 

 

 

"I contend that we are both theists. You just believe in a different god than I. When you compare history with your god, then you will understand why I believe in mine."

 

 

 

Your reworking of a wonderful quote is nonsensical. I do not believe in a different god than you, I believe in NO god. In addition, I think we have proven that history has little to do with god except for providing us with a running social commentary of the times when the theistic works were compiled.

 

 

 

See, here's the problem. You haven't proven anything. You think you have proven it because it's what you believe and it makes sense to you. pianofreak though, believes differently and his reasons make sense to him.

 

 

 

It's not about "proving" one point right or wrong - because you can't do that God or religion.

[Godzira]

It's not even about his reasons making sense to him. I understand that. But his quote is outright wrong and illogical. It has nothing to do with his beliefs.