I Will Help You If I Can: Combatting the Greed Factor

[IanBorthwick]

Sometime ago I joined RS and found it cutthroat and unfreindly. Players validated their cruelty in Nietzchian terms that can be best described as draconian and cretinous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I don't see it as greedy because....."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"It's fair because I'm allowed....."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"It's ok because I see it done...."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Despicable at best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I didn't play despite having a paying membership for 4 months, the simple fact was that if all the people were willing to kill or cheat to get ahead I couldn't play fairly without worry. Not conducive to a good experience at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then it dawned on me...this trend had to be battled. It could be chipped at, it can be reversed. If we play with fairness and set excellent examples, where else can we go but up? We're nearingbottom as it is and few people want to be examplars of fair play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I embarked with several friends on a new mission, to Pay It Forward as the movie. To give with no thought of repayment from others. So I renewed my membership and began to work hard on my character after a 6 month lag. When called upon we make every effort if we are not busy to intercede favorably. This doesn't mean that PKers haven't tried unsuccesfully to kill us, or that scammers haven't been tempted to try us on for size.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But to the ends we have set, we've made free armor en masse, lead people across RS for no money, and last but not least....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Free Rings and Amulets Galore!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In one day I passed out hundreds I had personally made in the hope that those who would overcharge wouldn't be able to do so around me. That it would profit those who had a need, and would accelerate their enjoyment of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, I have asked for nothing in return.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not the most experienced or most powerful player in the game, nor am I able to combat and defeat the highest quests. But what I can do I have sworn to accomplish because the avarice and hate in a wonderful game is what leads to the eventual rule breaking and desire to get ahead no matter the means. This is where my fight lies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do not mistake this help as succumbing to beggars. I see someone dressed in bronze armor and his level is a 30, I figure this is someone on hard times or little cash. One suit of steel plate and a handful of cooked swordies later I have boosted that persons confidence enormously. Their enjoyment from a random act of kindness carries me on. I see a wizard girl, dressed in piecemeal Zammies and an air staff...One Magic Ammie, one Ring of Life, and a full Suit of Blues with Leather Chaps later and this girl is confident about her chances to survive as one of the most difficult classes to perform in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think I am lying?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mesage me if you need help and I'll do my best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I seek no fame.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I seek no fortune.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Glory is for the dead and vain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am Ian Borthwick, I will help you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RS Name "Ianborthwick"

[Conrose]

Let me see here... I've given away some

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Glory Amulets: 8

 

 

 

Full Mystic Robes: 5

 

 

 

Ring of Wealth: 7

 

 

 

Ring of Life: Um... I think I'm at 20+ now

 

 

 

Prayer Pots: I give em to my friends for free, and I've made em for free for people without high enough herblore lvl to make em themselves... all they had to do was provide me with some Ranarrs (Often I had to ID all their herbs to find out which ones were the Ranarrs).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People I've aided in the Desert Treasure Quest: 7 (4 of which tried using the Tip.it quest guide and found that it didn't help much with explaining how to carry out the boss battle against the Vampire boss).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've recovered countless semi- and expensive items for people who died in combat against a monster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Number of RC PKers slain: I'm at 18 now... what can I say, if you try to bind me while I'm runecrafting, you can expect to see some rampaging single item PKer with a DDS every few minutes after you killed the last one, lol!

[IanBorthwick]

With the low responses that are occuring to this thread, I can see that this site may just be predominated with the self-absorbed players. This saddens me but wasn't unexpected.

[PFJ]

With the low responses that are occuring to this thread, I can see that this site may just be predominated with the self-absorbed players. This saddens me but wasn't unexpected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd contact you,but,I'm pretty well off. I mean, I'm broke, but I got what I need to play decently.

[neogeo0823]

you and i are a dying breed, man. good job! :D

[dwarfie76]

Yo, good call. I'm in the process of grinding some smithing levels smelting and hammering iron.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was just going to make plates and alch them but I think I'll knock out a hundred or so sets of full iron and make a few newbie's days.

[Lim_Dul]

That's like feeding wild animals at the park. They're just going to become dependent on handouts, and become even less capable of supporting themselves. Welfare only propogates more begging.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may be well meaning, but you're not helping people by giving them charity. I know I would find it demeaning to be offered free items. I take pride in knowing that I've earned every gp in my account and the players who genuinely aren't beggers will share that view. As for those who are beggers, this will only validate their begging by demonstrating it is rewarded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It comes down to the old addage, give a man a fish etc. Anybody can produce wealth in runescape with a degree of patience. There is nothing stopping any player from earning gp and obtaining valuable items on their own. A player in need would be better served to be shown a good fishing spot, rather than given free swordfish.

[LordBaer]

i gave someone some antipoison the other day. they where almost fully red lined . What came I say, I had the means to save them and I did.

[dwarfie76]

That's like feeding wild animals at the park. They're just going to become dependent on handouts, and become even less capable of supporting themselves. Welfare only propogates more begging.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree. A full kit of iron armour means that the newbs go into battle against those lvl5 goblins as a more than even match. Meaning they're not as likely to die and lose everything and end up begging for a new tinderbox on the lumby steps.

[Lim_Dul]

 

That's like feeding wild animals at the park. They're just going to become dependent on handouts, and become even less capable of supporting themselves. Welfare only propogates more begging.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree. A full kit of iron armour means that the newbs go into battle against those lvl5 goblins as a more than even match. Meaning they're not as likely to die and lose everything and end up begging for a new tinderbox on the lumby steps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Giving someone who just started a set of iron is a different matter. In that case you're giving them a tool to earn money with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Giving some lvl 30 pker a set of mage robes and amulet is like throwing money into a bottomless pit. They're just going to go squander it and come back begging for more.

[Zerocool11]

Sooner or later, a nice person like yourself will get taken advantage of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There isn't a lot of room in the world, RS or real one, for the nice guy. Ever increasing with people blinded by greed and ambition but in order to thrive in such a place one needs to join their ranks. I'm proud to be a scum bag. :twisted:

[LordBaer]

The dark side of the force is strong. :roll: but there is alway hope and a cask of ale that might work.

[Jarritos]

Let me see here... I've given away some

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Glory Amulets: 8

 

 

 

Full Mystic Robes: 5

 

 

 

Ring of Wealth: 7

 

 

 

Ring of Life: Um... I think I'm at 20+ now

 

 

 

Prayer Pots: I give em to my friends for free, and I've made em for free for people without high enough herblore lvl to make em themselves... all they had to do was provide me with some Ranarrs (Often I had to ID all their herbs to find out which ones were the Ranarrs).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People I've aided in the Desert Treasure Quest: 7 (4 of which tried using the Tip.it quest guide and found that it didn't help much with explaining how to carry out the boss battle against the Vampire boss).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've recovered countless semi- and expensive items for people who died in combat against a monster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Number of RC PKers slain: I'm at 18 now... what can I say, if you try to bind me while I'm runecrafting, you can expect to see some rampaging single item PKer with a DDS every few minutes after you killed the last one, lol!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dont count what youve given, just know that youve done it

[IanBorthwick]

If I see a PKer, I let them be. No handouts from me ever. But the Mage Girl I saw was a level 30 a nd was still walking around without a clue as to how to aquire more clothes. I gave her something I can get with little effort, and would have showed her how. Instead I gave her a set with instructions on how to attain more. I do not feed beggars, and I do not walk them through every danger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead I re-equip them and send them out to fight again. There is no harm in making sure that what is potentially a bad moment turns out better than expected for them. A moment of lost heart and a shining new chance handed to them when they feel low. WIth few examples of erstwhile behavior, I have universally been thanked and not troubled again by those people...no begging for more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So your excuse that they will become dependant falls completely apart under the light that I have given someone a random extra chance. Iron armor, some food and a shield....those things are helpful but not overbalancing. You want to keep them down when you have the means to help? Fine. Your choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it's MY choice to reverse the trend, to make a person happy who lost his means of making an RS living, to tell someone how to get something they didn't know about (like a law Talisman someone asked me about before) since others refuse to answer...and call them Noobs. We were all neophytes once! We all hated to be called stupid that way and made to feel little because we asked a question and got a sharp retort as an answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I made armor to outfit some people...so what? I'll say so what, I told those people I made it for HOW TO MAKE IT FOR THEMSELVES! Now they do!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I gave someone my old Pick Axe, so what? I'll tell you so what! Now the person is mining coal and making Steel Armor for friends! That's so what!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I gave away 10 Blue Wizard Shirts outta 30 I had, and some leather chaps I made...That girl now knows how I made them and aquired them. She shared what she had with her sister and was grateful that she wasn't treated badly. Like she had been since the day she became a P2P player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It made them want to keep playing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bad attitudes make people feel unwelcome, and I for one will not keep that going. Except for those who are selfish and wish to push those Nietzchian Ideas. You're happy to be a scumbag? More power to ya. When I fade away from this game, I hope to have left it at least one smile greater than when I joined it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My profit is on my soul, though my coin pouch is light.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My gift is happiness I shared with someone who was surprised, though I could have hi alched all I had in excess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I cannot eat all those lobsters because I have 100 Swordies, then wouldn't it be a sin to sell them to someone rich enough that they SHOULD have fished themselves? Of course! So I gave away lobsters to someone who needed them, in exchange for some uncut gems. I put those to good use and made rings and ammies...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And to all those who got magic items that day I am sure they put the rings of life to good use...and the rings of Forge, or ammies of defense...You cannot say those are useless. Even if sold. I have an Ammy of Glory I was given as a gift, and other ammies are now useless to me. (By the way, Conrose gifted me with that. As well as a Lava Staff, Broodoo Shield, Ring of Wealth and Full Blue Mystics) I am honor bound to lift my fellow players up when I can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Money is fleeting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Friends are Forever!

[Iantiger]

I would let people learn how to acquire new items themselves as I had to do when I first joined the game. The only time I would go out of my way to help people I don't even know is on Christmas day when I gave out 50 sets of full iron to the Lumbridge crowd, which you can read about here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=372337

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Ian

[Duke_Freedom]

The problem with giving away free stuff as a good deed is that you shouldn't do it like this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This thread is likely to mostly attract the wrong kind of people who "need" free stuff; beggars. Beggars who know how to make their cash, but who are just too lazy to do so. I have absolutely no patience nor interest to talk to such people as they are the ones being greedy - not anyone else. They feel the whole world should be circling around them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Furthermore, anyone who uses these forums is likely to have passed the 'newbie' state already and know at least a slight bit about the game already.. Enough to make some gp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMO there are no people who really "need" free stuff. Money making in this game is extremely easy, and even your average newbie 'Joe' should be able to afford full adamantite within a few hours of play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, that doesn't mean you can't do anything good. You could add new players to your list when you see they are confused and need some help. Be wary when they start asking for free stuff though, like Lim_Dul said, you shouldn't feed that kind of attitude.

[Lim_Dul]

Here's an example of what I like to do. If I'm selling a lower level their first set of rune and I notice they have no amulet, I'll throw in a free strength amulet. I recall going quite a long time with no idea that amulets gave any bonus so I like to help people in that regard. In this sort of situation, they are clearly not begging, and have worked hard to get their rune set, I'm just throwing in a little bonus. I do not give out free amulets though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On one occassion I met a person while cutting yews. They were using an iron axe and when I queried them about it, they said they had recently been hacked, and were just trying to cut yews to afford some of their previous items again. Partially because I was in an extremely gregarious mood, and partially in sympathy to their plight, I went and smithed a rune axe to give them free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was in no way condescending these sorts of acts of kindness, because they are rewarding people who are working to earn their belongings. Giving out items to random people on the other hand, is rewarding people who may not have made any attempt to better themselves, and this is where I draw the line.

[IanBorthwick]

Something to note, which is laughable in and of itself...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Despite telling those that would eventually argue that we gave NOT to beggars but to those in need andnot excessively, it was thrown at us. Even to the point of accusing that we are wasting items by givin them to PKers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) No PKers shall ever profit from us as we stated and...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) What is High Alchemy if not destroying an item? Any item?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's wiped from existence and r ather uselessly too. The exchange is gold for it and Magic XP. But it can be argued that it, too, is throwing items into a bottomless hole.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So from this we can infer that your true argument is that:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A) We aren't doing what you do, so it's hard to accept and..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

B) Making others rise faster and that somehow discomfits rich players somehow as well as....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

C) Unbalances the status quo by not being selfish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll stick to being kind and helpful, if it's all the same to you.

[dwarfie76]

Well I had a very enjoyable time handing out 100 sets of full iron to the newbies. I'd load up with armour, scimmies and kites and head to lumby. But rather than hang around the steps I wandered around the goblin areas looking for level 3 - 7 players trying to take out goblins. I'd wait until their fight was over and say "Here, try these instead" and give them a full set.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The gratitude was overwhelming. you could almost see their little animated eyes light up. Only one person had anything negative to say to me, and that was a level 35 I refused to hand over items to when he saw me giving them out and started following me around begging. Quite a few of my little iron warriors came back up to me to tell me about their accomplishments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm back at the furnace now, grinding my way to 65 smithing. Should have a few more sets to hand out soon enough.

[eliru]

this is a great thread!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am also one of those who tries to do good ongame. That doesnt mean i give items to anyone who begs, or give people things so they dont learn that the game is about working to get items/gp/skills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you reach a certain lvl, its so easy to stop and help some low lvl in a crowd who asks for help ! If you see someone in a bad armour, sell em some better cheap, or give em for free. Help people on quests, throw in some extra in trades, when someone says: buying 1 law 1k, give em 5 for free sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i was a lone wolf when i started this game, and i remember how wonderful it felt one time when a high lvl was being nice to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

keep it up, all you helpers out there. This isnt gonna favour beggers, this is showing players that this game isnt all about greed :wink:

[IanBorthwick]

I gave away a cape that someone offered 1k for...odd thing to offer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gave away 2.3k Steel Arrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Random people in low armor and no amulets got Ammies of Defense from me yesterday. I tried on several occasions to just give away a Bullesye lantern and a cut Saphire for someone doing Tears of Guthix...but he ignored me and bought one instead. Oh well, can't help them all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mined some gems from Shilo and gave them to someone who kept trying to cut me off to the stones...didn't know I outranked her. She learned to speak and not swoop, not to mention the fact that she saw people willing to help where previously it was always a contest of speed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am officially announcing my two dreams in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Free Rune Hatchets for anyone I see offering to buy one. For this I have to work a long time on my smithing and mining, so this is a long term goal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) TO enchant and create any D-stone jewelry for people FREE. All they need to do is bring me a D-stone. This is also a long term goal as I have to work up my craft and magic a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, as of right now I have a ton of Magic Ammies and rings I need to give away. If anyone needs one, please, put me in your friends box and message me. What I don't have I can easily make as I have high enough craft and enchantment power to make anything shy of a Ring of Wealth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok?

[Lim_Dul]

 

 

 

I am officially announcing my two dreams in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Free Rune Hatchets for anyone I see offering to buy one. For this I have to work a long time on my smithing and mining, so this is a long term goal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) TO enchant and create any D-stone jewelry for people FREE. All they need to do is bring me a D-stone. This is also a long term goal as I have to work up my craft and magic a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do realize that this will harm the people who rely on selling rune axes and dragon stone jewelry for money? By giving these items freely, the prices will drop, making it even harder to make a living by these means.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is classic Communism, and it does more harm than good. The determined people are penalized, while those who aren't pulling their own weight are rewarded. Why should anyone pull their own weight when they can receive valuable items with no effort whatsoever? Ultimately this system collapses because of just that reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We need to take steps to reward the hardest workers, not the most needy. By giving incentive to the best, it encourages everyone to ascend to greatness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suggested reading: "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand

[Dr_Elephant]

There's also a lot of fun in hosting anonymous drop parties.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suggestion: Go to Champ's guild, train combat, prayer and cooking with the chickens, then wander over to the dark wizards south of Varrok and drop the chickens in random patterns. Some just laugh, but others are grateful and don't know who to be grateful to so they'll just shout "Whoever's dropping the chickens, thanks!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suggestion: Take some armour to a low-level training area (cows, goblins, Al-Kharid warriors, etc) and drop them one at a time. Food works here too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suggestion: Mine gold from Crafting Guild, smelt it in Falador furnace and on your way back, take a detour to the Rimmington mines where there are usually people fighting over the two gold rocks. Drop the bars in a wide pattern, making it easy for everyone to get a few.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's my theory that anonymity does two things:

 

 

 

1. It eliminates the beggars, unless they figure out who the generous benefactor is.

 

 

 

2. When they have nobody to thank personally, they're more likely to "pay-it-forward" so to speak. When they know exactly who gave them the items, it's easier for them to think their duty ends with a simple "thank you."

 

 

 

3. For those of you who follow such teachings as "...when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret..." you'll find it much more rewarding in the long run.

[dwarfie76]

You do realize that this will harm the people who rely on selling rune axes and dragon stone jewelry for money? By giving these items freely, the prices will drop, making it even harder to make a living by these means.

 

 

 

There is no need for people to "make a living" in Runescape. The game, unlike most MMORPGs, allows you to train all skills available making self-sufficiency a very real part of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is classic Communism, and it does more harm than good. The determined people are penalized, while those who aren't pulling their own weight are rewarded. Why should anyone pull their own weight when they can receive valuable items with no effort whatsoever? Ultimately this system collapses because of just that reason.

 

 

 

That would be the case if it were mandated, as it would be under a communist system. When the items are freely given by the creator it's philanthropy, not communism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We need to take steps to reward the hardest workers, not the most needy. By giving incentive to the best, it encourages everyone to ascend to greatness.

 

 

 

Those who work hard are rewarded, with the experience and levels that enable them to create and obtain the most sought-after items in the game. That alone encourages anyone to further their skills. By putting the means of production into the hands of people starting out, you encourage them to go out and do something useful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suggested reading: "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand

 

 

 

Good read, but I can't help thinking you may have missed the point of it. Ayn Rand rightly suggests that communism and socialism in it's many guises stifle individual creativity and create a disincentive to contribute to society. What she doesn't do is suggest that individual philanthropy has any such effect. No-one is forcibly redistributing the wealth of high-level players here. Simply giving low-level players the ability to forge ahead and succeed. It's trickle-down economics at it's best and Ayn Rand would be proud.

[Dr_Elephant]

 

You do realize that this will harm the people who rely on selling rune axes and dragon stone jewelry for money? By giving these items freely, the prices will drop, making it even harder to make a living by these means.

 

 

 

There is no need for people to "make a living" in Runescape. The game, unlike most MMORPGs, allows you to train all skills available making self-sufficiency a very real part of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is classic Communism, and it does more harm than good. The determined people are penalized, while those who aren't pulling their own weight are rewarded. Why should anyone pull their own weight when they can receive valuable items with no effort whatsoever? Ultimately this system collapses because of just that reason.

 

 

 

That would be the case if it were mandated, as it would be under a communist system. When the items are freely given by the creator it's philanthropy, not communism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We need to take steps to reward the hardest workers, not the most needy. By giving incentive to the best, it encourages everyone to ascend to greatness.

 

 

 

Those who work hard are rewarded, with the experience and levels that enable them to create and obtain the most sought-after items in the game. That alone encourages anyone to further their skills. By putting the means of production into the hands of people starting out, you encourage them to go out and do something useful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suggested reading: "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand

 

 

 

Good read, but I can't help thinking you may have missed the point of it. Ayn Rand rightly suggests that communism and socialism in it's many guises stifle individual creativity and create a disincentive to contribute to society. What she doesn't do is suggest that individual philanthropy has any such effect. No-one is forcibly redistributing the wealth of high-level players here. Simply giving low-level players the ability to forge ahead and succeed. It's trickle-down economics at it's best and Ayn Rand would be proud.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wonderfully worded dwarfie76!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything you've said in this post and have nothing to add, which is very unusual for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:)