Issue in Iraq - Updated Again!

[Barihawk]

As for the civil war issue... I myself think it's due to the poor management of the USAF. The USAF have been provoking the responses. They should be held responsible above all else.

 

 

 

What are you talking about. You are mixing up the USAF problem in South Korea with the Iraqi Civil War.

 

 

 

On SK: There are idiots all over the world. I am sure thier superior officers would do what the police could not, if only it was reported.

 

 

 

On ICW: While the US provided the means for the civil war to break out (the dam holding it back was fear of Saddam's regime), we did not cause the hatred that led to the war. That has been 40+ years of aggression.

[Guest GhostRanger]

All of the skeptics about the WOMDs and the corrupt reasons for the US going into Iraq for oil... Check this out... http://www.thedebate.org/thedebate/iraq.asp

 

 

 

It has quotes from many world leaders... Including a few from people within the American government itself.

 

 

 

Thank you for demonstrating how anyone get put together a few quotes to produce whatever outcome they want.

 

 

 

"I actually did vote for the $87 billion, before I voted against it."

 

 

 

Yay for quotes! (Show me Bush oil profits and records please)

 

 

 

Official records would no doubt be sealed. But you can't even believe the UN?

 

 

 

Not official records about oil company profits. As said before, no one can hide from the IRS. If you don't believe me, I can tell you exactly how many any political leader filed for taxes last year. John Edwards recently reported an annual income of abuot $550,000. If Bush owned an oil company that he was making money with and boosting America's economy with - there would be PUBLIC ACCESSIBLE data supporting this theory.

 

 

 

 

 

Hell... the CIA itself said that Iraq posed little threat to America...

 

 

 

"President George Bush's attempt to maintain public support for military action

 

against Iraq has taken a fresh blow from an unexpected quarter, with the

 

publication of a letter from the CIA stating that while Saddam Hussein poses

 

little threat to America"

 

 

 

And when did this happen? I don't know if you paid any attention to the news when we entered the war but one of the final deciding factors was a man by the name of George Tennent (are you familiar with him? He was the director of the CIA who resigned for making the biggest mistake of his career) said something along the lines of Saddam having WMD's is a "slam dunk."

 

 

 

How much more do you need to be convinced?

 

 

 

Do you not understand how laughable this post was? Quotes are nothing more than the opinion someone is expressing - quotes are NOT factual evidence. When I asked for factual evidence I didn't ask for the OPINION of people (whom you didn't give their name, the date they said it, or where and in what context it was said).

 

 

 

Your entire post was in short, a joke. If you'd like, I can find just as many Bush/Rice/Cheney/Blair/Powell/Tennent quotes to support the opposite. Does that mean they are any more true? Quit kidding yourself.

[Elite]

It's sad that alot of people can't even think or have no brain.

 

 

 

Go read some books, search the internet and see what REALLY US is.

 

 

 

US probably did 9/11 to get a couple reason to attack some countries and probably do some other things in the background..

 

 

 

You know nothing, JUST NOTHING :)

[Barihawk]

It's sad that alot of people can't even think or have no brain.

 

 

 

Go read some books, search the internet and see what REALLY US is.

 

 

 

US probably did 9/11 to get a couple reason to attack some countries and probably do some other things in the background..

 

 

 

You know nothing, JUST NOTHING :)

 

 

 

I'm trying to live up to my nice nature. Leave, now. You are about to be dogpiled with much hatred and ill will.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

It's sad that alot of people can't even think or have no brain.

 

 

 

Go read some books, search the internet and see what REALLY US is.

 

 

 

US probably did 9/11 to get a couple reason to attack some countries and probably do some other things in the background..

 

 

 

You know nothing, JUST NOTHING :)

 

 

 

Every single post that you write is nothing more than a steaming pile of dump. All you write about is your idiotic conspiracies and put down others.

 

 

 

If anyone has not been keeping up with the argument that has taken place, here is a basic summary of what Kyrptic and Elite are trying to say.

 

 

 

"I'm entitled to my own opinion, and yes, it is my opinion. But I know it's true, and you know it's true, so don't even argue with me or I will automatically attempt to shut you down, and fail miserably at it."

[VOV]

[rocketman089]

 

 

 

Dude, your point?

 

 

 

Is it that we couldn't see into the future? That we didn't have a little crystal ball in the Oval Office that told us things were only going to get worse?

[Kryptic]

It seems to me that the US knew civil war would break out in Iraq the day they took Saddam out of power.

 

They are waiting to see how long it takes before militants destroy Iraq and its people are forced to let the US takeover everything.

 

And I'm not just talking about oil.

 

 

 

Thats what I still remain wondering. If Bush knew what was going to happen before it happened or not, because I did. The shi-ites and sunnis have had problems ever since their existence, and it was predicted that they would fight if Saddam was out of power.

[pianofrieak2]

It seems to me that the US knew civil war would break out in Iraq the day they took Saddam out of power.

 

They are waiting to see how long it takes before militants destroy Iraq and its people are forced to let the US takeover everything.

 

And I'm not just talking about oil.

 

 

 

Thats what I still remain wondering. If Bush knew what was going to happen before it happened or not, because I did. The shi-ites and sunnis have had problems ever since their existence, and it was predicted that they would fight if Saddam was out of power.

 

 

 

*sigh*

 

 

 

Bush had no idea what was going to happen. No one does. :roll:

 

 

 

Yes, the Shiites and Sunnis have had problems but you forgot about the Kurds. Everyone is struggling for power, and the press only makes the whole mess down there worse. BTW, I'm glad you knew everything that was going to happen.

 

 

 

Now that we're there...what else should we do? Leave Iraq to have a civil war? No. Even Hillary Clinton, the most liberal senator out there, said we should stay. :wink:

[Kryptic]

It seems to me that the US knew civil war would break out in Iraq the day they took Saddam out of power.

 

They are waiting to see how long it takes before militants destroy Iraq and its people are forced to let the US takeover everything.

 

And I'm not just talking about oil.

 

 

 

Thats what I still remain wondering. If Bush knew what was going to happen before it happened or not, because I did. The shi-ites and sunnis have had problems ever since their existence, and it was predicted that they would fight if Saddam was out of power.

 

 

 

*sigh*

 

 

 

Bush had no idea what was going to happen. No one does. :roll:

 

 

 

Yes, the Shiites and Sunnis have had problems but you forgot about the Kurds. Everyone is struggling for power, and the press only makes the whole mess down there worse. BTW, I'm glad you knew everything that was going to happen.

 

 

 

Now that we're there...what else should we do? Leave Iraq to have a civil war? No. Even Hillary Clinton, the most liberal senator out there, said we should stay. :wink:

 

 

 

Ok, Americian troops should stay in Iraq. But do you actrually believe thats going to help anything? If the troops are not protecting citizens from war crime, then whats why are the troops even stationed there?

 

 

 

Hilary Clinton has the right intensions I believe. She wants the US troops to preform the job of the UN by protecting the innocent - but their not.

[Guest GhostRanger]

Hilary Clinton has the right intensions I believe. She wants the US troops to preform the job of the UN by protecting the innocent - but their not.

 

 

 

I was on a cruise ship recently and I watched 156 dining room attendants from 43 different nationalities (most third-world) boo at the idea of the U.N. actually "helping" people.

 

 

 

Since when is it U.S. troops to preform the job of the UN? The UN didn't even authorize this war, so why should OUR troops (getting no help from the UN) be doing THEIR job. That doesn't even make sense. If you want to decide what U.S. troops are doing, send in your own troops or actively support the war. Otherwise, American and Coalition forces can do what they think is necessary, since they are the ones doing it.

[Kryptic]

Hilary Clinton has the right intensions I believe. She wants the US troops to preform the job of the UN by protecting the innocent - but their not.

 

 

 

I was on a cruise ship recently and I watched 156 dining room attendants from 43 different nationalities (most third-world) boo at the idea of the U.N. actually "helping" people.

 

 

 

Wouldnt be surprised at that. Most nations hate the idea of having their soveriegnty violated.

 

 

 

Since when is it U.S. troops to preform the job of the UN? The UN didn't even authorize this war, so why should OUR troops (getting no help from the UN) be doing THEIR job. That doesn't even make sense. If you want to decide what U.S. troops are doing, send in your own troops or actively support the war. Otherwise, American and Coalition forces can do what they think is necessary, since they are the ones doing it.

 

 

 

Then why exactly are the US troops in Iraq? They were sent primarily to retrieve Saddam. Mission success - Why are they still in Iraq if they are not helping the people?

[Guest GhostRanger]

Hilary Clinton has the right intensions I believe. She wants the US troops to preform the job of the UN by protecting the innocent - but their not.

 

 

 

I was on a cruise ship recently and I watched 156 dining room attendants from 43 different nationalities (most third-world) boo at the idea of the U.N. actually "helping" people.

 

 

 

Wouldnt be surprised at that. Most nations hate the idea of having their soveriegnty violated.

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with "violated sovereignty," it has to do with that fact that the U.N. doesn't help anyone. Rwanda anyone?

 

 

 

And if you want to go on the point of people don't like having their soveriegnty violated and so they don't like the UN because that's what they do...that defeats your entire argument from post one. You don't like america pre-emptively invading Iraq and "violating their sovereignty," but if the UN does it, its okay? Right - because the UN has proven so effective in the past.

 

 

 

Since when is it U.S. troops to preform the job of the UN? The UN didn't even authorize this war, so why should OUR troops (getting no help from the UN) be doing THEIR job. That doesn't even make sense. If you want to decide what U.S. troops are doing, send in your own troops or actively support the war. Otherwise, American and Coalition forces can do what they think is necessary, since they are the ones doing it.

 

 

 

Then why exactly are the US troops in Iraq? They were sent primarily to retrieve Saddam. Mission success - Why are they still in Iraq if they are not helping the people?

 

 

 

Its not that the troops aren't helping the citizens of Iraq - its that they are not helping them in the way YOU or the UN might think is the way. That's the difference.

[Kryptic]

It has nothing to do with "violated sovereignty," it has to do with that fact that the U.N. doesn't help anyone. Rwanda anyone?

 

 

 

And if you want to go on the point of people don't like having their soveriegnty violated and so they don't like the UN because that's what they do...that defeats your entire argument from post one. You don't like america pre-emptively invading Iraq and "violating their sovereignty," but if the UN does it, its okay? Right - because the UN has proven so effective in the past.

 

 

 

There are few, but not enough to prove that UN has been successful... meh.

 

 

 

Its not that the troops aren't helping the citizens of Iraq - its that they are not helping them in the way YOU or the UN might think is the way. That's the difference.

 

 

 

In what ways are the troops aiding Iraq? If you can, give me links to articles - from credible sources of course.

[Guest GhostRanger]

In what ways are the troops aiding Iraq? If you can, give me links to articles - from credible sources of course.

 

 

 

I'll do you one better. I'll give you links of from SEVERAL credible sources - all of different biases.

 

 

 

Iraqi citizens voted - Washington Post

 

 

 

Iraqi citizens voted - CNN

 

 

 

Iraqi citizens voted - FOX News

 

 

 

Iraqi citizens voted - BBC

 

 

 

What is more important to any citizen of any country in the world than being able to vote freely? Its something Saddam sure never allowed. And why was it possible? Coalition forces.

[pianofrieak2]

It's not just them being able to vote, though. It's them fixing schools, giving clean water and food, etc.

 

 

 

Their entire lifestyle is better...well, better is a debatable word. How about more civilized. :wink:

[Bubsa]

To be honest, if you really think those 3 religions managed to live together peacefully...where have you been? Do you ignore Israel or something?

 

 

 

I am Palestinian. I know of this issue a great deal... Thats a whole different story, under different circumstances thus it is a whole different thread, thank you.

 

 

 

For the record, I stopped posting after that ironic and ignorant reply.

[Rerg1]

Remeber that Saddam killed his own people with Chemical Weps... Did u put that in?

[Barihawk]

To be honest, if you really think those 3 religions managed to live together peacefully...where have you been? Do you ignore Israel or something?

 

 

 

I am Palestinian. I know of this issue a great deal... Thats a whole different story, under different circumstances thus it is a whole different thread, thank you.

 

 

 

For the record, I stopped posting after that ironic and ignorant reply.

 

 

 

In your first post you said you were from Kuwait. Now you are from Palestine. Just where exactly are you from?

 

 

 

I am arab, born in Kuwait, with Palestine running through my blood

 

 

 

I am American. I have Irish and Cherokee blood in my veins. I am still American.

[Kryptic]

To be honest, if you really think those 3 religions managed to live together peacefully...where have you been? Do you ignore Israel or something?

 

 

 

I am Palestinian. I know of this issue a great deal... Thats a whole different story, under different circumstances thus it is a whole different thread, thank you.

 

 

 

For the record, I stopped posting after that ironic and ignorant reply.

 

 

 

In your first post you said you were from Kuwait. Now you are from Palestine. Just where exactly are you from?

 

 

 

I am arab, born in Kuwait, with Palestine running through my blood

 

 

 

I am American. I have Irish and Cherokee blood in my veins. I am still American.

 

 

 

I was born in Kuwait, but my parents are from Palestine. They left Palestine after their home was destroyed, moved to Jordan - then Kuwait. Kuwaitis were racist and didnt give us much privilages such as recieving kuwaiti citizenship, so we came to Canada.

 

 

 

I AM NOT KUWAITI!

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

 

Hey I heard GW Bush canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t open doors; confirm/deny?

 

I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t know why this thread is still open; it provides nothing constructive and makes me weep for the future of humanity. If you think the war was a pawn game for Bush and his fellow oil well owners youÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re crazy. Spending untold billions of dollars and having low approval rating is definitely not worth the trade off for a few more million (if that) profit on your company.

 

 

 

Or you know that Saddam Hussein pretended to have chemical weapons to deter countries like Israel from attacking them. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4837276.stm

 

 

 

Oh snap!

 

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Zerocool11]

:lol:

 

 

 

That whole door opening incident was hilarious. Bush was in China and after a little bit of shaking hands and picture taking, he tried to make an exit only to find the door was locked. He seriously spent 2-3 minutes trying to open it while on live television. Effectively he was trapped. It was so symbolic of the whole situation he finds himself in as President.

 

 

 

And to think he's representing the entire United States of America and the free world. :oops:

[Guest GhostRanger]

I was born in Kuwait, but my parents are from Palestine. They left Palestine after their home was destroyed, moved to Jordan - then Kuwait. Kuwaitis were racist and didnt give us much privilages such as recieving kuwaiti citizenship, so we came to Canada.

 

 

 

I AM NOT KUWAITI!

 

 

 

Its racist if the Kuwaiti's don't give you rights but when Saddam doesn't let his people vote in free elections and kills them because they are Kurds you say he "just has to be tough on them." :roll:

[Kryptic]

I was born in Kuwait, but my parents are from Palestine. They left Palestine after their home was destroyed, moved to Jordan - then Kuwait. Kuwaitis were racist and didnt give us much privilages such as recieving kuwaiti citizenship, so we came to Canada.

 

 

 

I AM NOT KUWAITI!

 

 

 

Its racist if the Kuwaiti's don't give you rights but when Saddam doesn't let his people vote in free elections and kills them because they are Kurds you say he "just has to be tough on them." :roll:

 

 

 

I totally agree. Demorcracy should be a universal concept, and Saddam was a sick man for the things he did.

 

 

 

But without him, the Iraqis are suffering way more than what Saddam did to them.

 

 

 

You cant walk outside expecting to come home and be completly fine in Iraq. It's that dangerous - imagine thinking the next car, restaurant, person or mailbox might blow up the next time you walk by it.

 

 

 

I think it's just sad that the Iraqis were suffering when Saddam was in power, and now they have to suffer a lot more when Saddam was captured.

[assassin_696]

I was born in Kuwait, but my parents are from Palestine. They left Palestine after their home was destroyed, moved to Jordan - then Kuwait. Kuwaitis were racist and didnt give us much privilages such as recieving kuwaiti citizenship, so we came to Canada.

 

 

 

I AM NOT KUWAITI!

 

 

 

Its racist if the Kuwaiti's don't give you rights but when Saddam doesn't let his people vote in free elections and kills them because they are Kurds you say he "just has to be tough on them." :roll:

 

 

 

I think it's just sad that the Iraqis were suffering when Saddam was in power, and now they have to suffer a lot more when Saddam was captured.

 

 

 

But surely it has a better chance of ever becoming peaceful with the current plans? As you said, democracy should be a universal concept, so isn't it better to try and implement it now?