Abuse Report Ratings (and then some...)

[Borei]

The idea I've been toying with in my head is basically this:

 

Jagex starts rating the quality of all your Abuse Reports when they get the time to go over them. To supplement this, they add a section to the website where you can log in to see your average rating. Jagex could also make the rating visible from the game log in (like with unread messages). If the rating gets up to a certain level, you get a reward. One possible reward would be getting a better "prize" from the Security Guard Random Event. If it gets too low, you lose the ability to report anyone for any reason, and must take a "reporting tutorial" to regain your ability to report abuse. The website section that shows your rating without having to log into the game could also have an option to take the tutorial voluntarily (as well as whatever other option Jagex can think to put there).

 

 

 

Admittedly, this would increase the amount of work for Jagex at first, but in the long run it would reduce the number of false reports. That would give Customer Support more time to deal with more of RuneScape's "bad apples" more quickly/effectively, which in turn means a better gaming environment for us. In the end, isn't that all we really want with the Report Abuse feature (unless, of course, you're one of the one's that prefers to break the rules)?

 

 

 

Let me know what you think, and if it's worth bringing to Jagex's attention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Concerns and Responses

 

-----

 

Point: People would start trying to report as much as possible (marginal things that most people would ignore) just to 'level' their report rating. It might end up with the staff having to do more work than before. I agree with you that the idea would be that you could have a negative 'score' for a false report, but I could easily see people playing around with this as another goal to level.

 

 

 

Response: What makes you think that's a bad thing? If we can serve (at least partly) eliminate false reports, that's less annoying clutter that doesn't help anything. If people start reporting genuine abuse more often, then that further serves to increase the genuine-to-bogus report ratio. What this means is more rule breakers being dealt with more swiftly. On a large enough scale, that can act as yet another deterrent for would-be future rule breakers within itself. Right now a large portion of people that break the rules do so because they think they can get away with it, but if we can make the percentage of people that actually do get away with it continually drop then that type will be more inclined to play honestly.

 

---

 

Point: What if you have lost your reporting power and see somebody actually breaking a rule? Jagex would really want to know about it.

 

 

 

Response: That "kink" is actually one of the good things about this. Anyone that has any interest in being able to send in a genuine abuse report, if this were implemented, would take special care not to put themselves in that situation in the first place. People that want to help, but send in bad reports simply because they don't know what they're doing, could simply take the tutorial voluntarily. This helps them to know when/why/how/who to report, and in turn allows them to avoid said dilemma.

 

---

 

Point: As far as I know, Jagex already does this. Jagex investigates every report they receive. If the report is legit, they send a message to you. From what I have heard, your account recieves some type of "rating" as to how many of your reports are legit. If they get too many false reports from you, they stop sending you messages in response to your reports. But supposedly they are still checking on the people that you report.

 

 

 

Response: I have confirmed that Jagex does not always send responses to legit reports. Also, this isn't just to help Jagex Customer Support determine how likely a report is to be legit (though that is part of it). It's also to help players that try to send in legit reports be sure that they're going about it in the right way. I don't know about anyone else, but I would personally like to know that my reports are actually helpful. If they're not I'd like to have a way to be sure I don't screw up on future reports. After all, if every report I send in is more or less worthless, then what's the point of reporting at all? I'm sure you can see how that scenario/mind set would cause a problem. That's another reason for this suggestion.

 

---

 

Point: It would be an amazing amount of work for the staff. While I agree that it could easily save them a great deal of work later, the group of staff that handles reports is seperate from the group that codes stuff on the site. So they could be hard to convince.

 

 

 

Response: Good point. Of course, they could just make it a back-burner project, and then apply it with/as an anual F2P update; however, I'm still open to more suggestions on this.

 

---

 

Point: How would you show player mods on this? Would they be on it, or not? If they are, are they held tothe normal set of rules that everyone reports from, or the more complicated and specific ones that only mods have to follow when reporting? Yes, mods actually have a very long set of guidelines to use when reporting, and that could cause a bit of a problem with this. Would you have a seperate list for mods, or would they be included in the normal one, or would they not be in a list at all?

 

 

 

Response: Player Moderators would continue to be held to the same standard as they are now. Normal Players would as well. Also, there would be no "list". Just a rating you see when you log on and in a "Report Center" (kind of a Message Center of sorts). Player Moderators wouldn't really have much to be concerned about. This is simply for the fact that a player has to prove him/herself to become a mod in the first place. The only way you'd have anything to worry about is if you do something to lose "Moderator Status".

 

---

 

Point: Would the list be publicly viewable? There are good and bad things about it being public (peer pressure to be higher, peer pressure to be lower, teasing others about being higher/lower, ect.).

 

 

 

Response: Again, no actual list, so not really an issue.

 

---

 

Point: Would everyone be on this list right from the start? Or would it be something optional that you could sign up for? And would new players start on this list right off the bat? Would this be mentioned on Tutorial Isle, or left to be found by the players on their own?

 

 

 

Response: The rating system would be mandatory, simply because people that purposely abuse the report button could simply opt out and abuse away. Of course, with something like this it would have to be implemented into Tutorial Island. A (relatively) quick, hands-on in-game tutorial to get new players off on the right foot when it comes to reporting abuse.

 

---

 

Point: What's the chance that us player mods will get all sorts of question and complaints because of this?

 

 

 

Response: About as much chance of absolutely anything else in RuneScape causing the same effect. I may not agree with it, but that's just the mentality a huge portion of RSers have towards Player Moderators. For you and the other Player Moderators, it would likely serve as yet another PM Spam topic that tends to further fuel why most Player Moderators tend to keep Private Chat on friends. As well, I'm betting you would get a fair deal of questions in Public Chat, too; though that would undoubtedly die down after people got adjusted to the change.

 

---

 

Point: Only problem I can see with it is that jagex might have more trouble sorting out the real from the fake and all that.

 

 

 

Response: Jagex already does that with every report we send in anyways, do they not?

 

---

 

Point: Possibly as much as doubling expenses has never been a popular thing with companies, and jagex, although I'm sure they care about their players, is a company. I find this would most likely be the biggest problem with the entire suggestion.

 

 

 

Response: Aside from the initial development costs, there should be little to no financial implications in this. (Yeah, you heard me.) After being fully implemented and everyone given time to adjust to the change, the only thing that would really change on Jagex Customer Support's side (as far as what they have to do) is that when they review a report one of two things happens. Either they have to rate the individual report on a scale they determine for themselves (after which it's averaged into the overall reports rating of the player that sent it), or it's programmed so that after a decision is made on the report a +1/-1 type deal is applied to your rating automatically. I personally prefer the first one, but I can live with the second.

 

---

 

Point: Could cause a problem with the additional drain in resources.

 

 

 

Response: As I said before, this could be made a "back burner" project for Jagex. In addition to that applying to its development, it would also mean that they could hold off on implementation until their resource pool is to an acceptable level, and we all know they have to continually add to that pool anyways.

[Ryenkishu]

I was thinking somewhere along the same lines, but I'd like a feature to tell u whether the people u reported got banned or what happened to them.

[Borei]

That doesn't fit in so well with this. Simply for the fact that my suggestion serves to reduce the workload for Customer Support and make the game better for us, while that simply plays to the (often) insatiable curiosity people tend to have over a matter that really doesn't effect them beyond them having one more name on the ignore list.

[rft]

interesting idea. In principle I like it, but what would really happen is that people would start trying to report as much as possible (marginal things that most people would ignore) just to 'level' their report rating. It might end up with the staff having to do more work than before. I agree with you that the idea would be that you could have a negative 'score' for a false report, but I could easily see people playing around with this as another goal to level.

[thaimodz]

Nice. How about giving incentives for 'cops'? Like a few uncuts or some money...

 

 

 

Add 'Reporting Tutorial' as an optional course which people can enroll to certify as 'Educated Reporter' and their reports will make greater effect. The contents of the Tut would be....

 

 

 

In Field Trainings, you use the real Abuse Report button to report test NPCs, which, from this tutoring place, the Server will process the reports as 'training' and won't reach the hands of Mods.

 

 

 

1: How to report (study)

 

2: Using reports (study & practice against an NPC scammer)

 

3: Abusing? (around 10 NPCs to report, only 4 are abusive)

 

4: Which Rules? (20 NPCs to report, 13 breaking each rule)

 

5: The First Exam spits you a series of questions about rules, security, scamming and such.

 

6: The Field Exam Takes you to another room where you need to report abusive entities.

 

7: Certified! You get a certification for your scores in your exams.

 

8: Improve your standing : You can improve your Cert score by re-taking the exam.

 

 

 

9: Into the job : By reporting more and more abusers, you gain "People Reported" attribute to your account.

[Borei]

interesting idea. In principle I like it, but what would really happen is that people would start trying to report as much as possible (marginal things that most people would ignore) just to 'level' their report rating. It might end up with the staff having to do more work than before. I agree with you that the idea would be that you could have a negative 'score' for a false report, but I could easily see people playing around with this as another goal to level.

 

What makes you think that's a bad thing? If we can serve (at least partly) eliminate false reports, that's less annoying clutter that doesn't help anything. If people start reporting genuine abuse more often, then that further serves to increase the genuine-to-bogus report ratio. What this means is more rule breakers being dealt with more swiftly. On a large enough scale, that can act as yet another deterant for would-be future rule breakers within itself.

 

 

 

Right now a large portion of people that break the rules do so because they think they can get away with it, but if we can make the percentage of people that actually do get away with it continually drop then that type will be more inclined to play honestly.

 

 

 

I know, the whole thing has a rather "blindingly idealistic" vibe to it, but it works in theory, and is the best solution I can come up with at the moment.

[Rcty]

The idea I've been toying with in my head is basically this:

 

Jagex starts rating the quality of all your Abuse Reports when they get the time to go over them. To supplement this, they add a section to the website where you can log in to see your average rating. Jagex could also make the rating visible from the game log in (like with unread messages). If the rating gets up to a certain level, you get a reward. (I don't know, a cookie or something.) If it gets too low, you lose the ability to report anyone for any reason, and must take a "reporting tutorial" to regain your ability to report abuse. The website section that shows your rating without having to log into the game could also have an option to take the tutorial voluntarily (as well as whatever other option Jagex can think to put there).

 

 

 

Admittedly, this would increase the amount of work for Jagex at first, but in the long run it would reduce the number of false reports. That would give Customer Support more time to deal with more of RuneScape's "bad apples" more quickly/effectively, which in turn means a better gaming environment for us. In the end, isn't that all we really want with the Report Abuse feature (unless, of course, you're one of the one's that prefers to break the rules)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me know what you think, and if it's worth bringing to Jagex's attention.

 

 

 

I really like what you're onto there, but I see only one flaw: What if you have lost your reporting power and see somebody actually breaking a rule? Jagex would really want to know about it.

 

 

 

I think it could be sent to Jagex, and if you could work out that kink before, it would be good. You're on the right track, buddy. :)

[Borei]

That "kink" is actually one of the good things about this. Anyone that has any interest in being able to send in a genuine abuse report, if this were implemented, would take special care not to put themselves in that situation in the first place. People that want to help, but send in bad reports simply because they don't know what they're doing, could simply take the tutorial voluntarily. This helps them to know when/why/how/who to report, and in turn allows them to avoid said dilemma.

[spikegamer]

I was thinking somewhere along the same lines, but I'd like a feature to tell u whether the people u reported got banned or what happened to them.

 

 

 

well i remember seeing messages in my inbox from jagex say the abuse report i sent was recived and the account received the proper punishment.

 

it was something along those lines.

[Borei]

Funny, I've never once gotten a message like that from Jagex. Perhaps I should be among the first to take the proposed tutorial (unless there's more you're not telling us).

[Borei]

I would like a bit more input on this before I post it on the Official Forums.

[pokemama]

This is a great idea. However, I hope you haven't posted it in the Official forums yet.

 

 

 

Because as far as I know, Jagex already does this.

 

 

 

Jagex investigates every report they receive. If the report is legit, they send a message to you (like someone posted above).

 

 

 

From what I have heard, your account recieves some type of "rating" as to how many of your reports are legit.

 

 

 

If they get too many false reports from you, they stop sending you messages in response to your reports.

 

 

 

But supposedly they are still checking on the people that you report.

[Borei]

See now, I've sent in several reports over the time I've been playing (all of which I believed, and still do, to be legit), and I've never once received any message from Jagex about any of them.

 

 

 

Also, this isn't just to help Jagex Customer Support determine how likely a report is to be legit (though that is part of it). It's also to help players that try to send in legit reports be sure that they're going about it in the right way. I don't know about anyone else, but I would personally like to know that my reports are actually helpful. If they're not I'd like to have a way to be sure I don't screw up on future reports. After all, if every report I send in is more or less worthless, then what's the point of reporting at all? I'm sure you can see how that scenario/mind set would cause a problem. That's another reason for this suggestion.

 

 

 

Feedback?

[Borei]

Well it looks like I should've waited out the lag after all. My last post didn't even register in the thread list.

[Sorator]

This is the sort of thing that would be very interesting.

 

 

 

You couldn't have a thing that tells you what's happened to the person you reported, people do get some privacy you know.

 

 

 

And I'm not entirely sure about not being able to report people for a while, but it's an interesting idea. I think it would be good to post it on the official forums once you have a few things worked out.

 

 

 

First of all, it would be an amazing amount of work for the staff. While I agree that it could easily save them a great deal of work later, the group of staff that handles reports is seperate from the group that codes stuff on the site. So they could be hard to convince. :)

 

 

 

Second, how would you show player mods on this? Would they be on it, or not? If they are, are they held tothe normal set of rules that everyone reports from, or the more complicated and specific ones that only mods have to follow when reporting?

 

Yes, mods actually have a very long set of guidelines to use when reporting, and that could cause a bit of a problem with this. Would you have a seperate list for mods, or would they be included in the normal one, or would they not be in a list at all?

 

 

 

Also, would the list be publicly viewable? There are good and bad things about it being public (peer pressure to be higher, peer pressure to be lower, teasing others about being higher/lower, ect.).

 

 

 

Would everyone be on this list right from the start? Or would it be something optional that you could sign up for? And would new players start on this list right off the bat? Would this be mentioned on Tutorial Isle, or left to be found by the players on their own?

 

 

 

And the most important question I have: what's the chance that us player mods will get all sorts of question and complaints because of this?

 

 

 

It needs a bit more thinking before it could be put on the official forums, but it is a good start. Sorry if I seem overly critical, I just would like to make sure this good suggestion doesn't get turned away because it wasn't fully thought out. Also, there are a lot of things us player mods have to deal with that players don't, and I'd like to make sure you see our point of view. :)

[Borei]

This is the sort of thing that would be very interesting.

 

 

 

You couldn't have a thing that tells you what's happened to the person you reported, people do get some privacy you know.

 

 

 

And I'm not entirely sure about not being able to report people for a while, but it's an interesting idea. I think it would be good to post it on the official forums once you have a few things worked out.

 

 

 

First of all, it would be an amazing amount of work for the staff. While I agree that it could easily save them a great deal of work later, the group of staff that handles reports is seperate from the group that codes stuff on the site. So they could be hard to convince. :)

 

Good point. You (or anyone else) have any workable suggestions on that?

 

 

 

Second, how would you show player mods on this? Would they be on it, or not? If they are, are they held tothe normal set of rules that everyone reports from, or the more complicated and specific ones that only mods have to follow when reporting?

 

Yes, mods actually have a very long set of guidelines to use when reporting, and that could cause a bit of a problem with this. Would you have a seperate list for mods, or would they be included in the normal one, or would they not be in a list at all?

 

Player Moderators would continue to be held to the same standard as they are now. Normal Players would as well. Also, there would be no "list". Just a rating you see when you log on and in a "Report Center" (kind of a Message Center of sorts).

 

 

 

Player Moderators wouldn't really have much to be concerned about. This is simply for the fact that a player has to prove him/herself to become a mod in the first place. The only way you'd have anything to worry about is if you do something to lose "Moderator Status".

 

 

 

Also, would the list be publicly viewable? There are good and bad things about it being public (peer pressure to be higher, peer pressure to be lower, teasing others about being higher/lower, ect.).

 

Again, no actual list, so not really an issue.

 

 

 

Would everyone be on this list right from the start? Or would it be something optional that you could sign up for? And would new players start on this list right off the bat? Would this be mentioned on Tutorial Isle, or left to be found by the players on their own?

 

The rating system would be mandatory, simply because people that purposely abuse the report button could simply opt out and abuse away. Of course, with something like this it would have to be implemented into Tutorial Island. A (relatively) quick, hands-on in-game tutorial to get new players off on the right foot when it comes to reporting abuse.

 

 

 

And the most important question I have: what's the chance that us player mods will get all sorts of question and complaints because of this?

 

About as much chance of absolutely anything else in RuneScape causing the same effect. I may not agree with it, but that's just the mentality a huge portion of RSers have towards Player Moderators. For you and the other Player Moderators, it would likely serve as yet another PM Spam topic that tends to further fuel why most Player Moderators tend to keep Private Chat on friends.

 

 

 

As well, I'm betting you would get a fair deal of questions in Public Chat, too; though that would undoubtedly die down after people got adjusted to the change.

 

 

 

It needs a bit more thinking before it could be put on the official forums, but it is a good start. Sorry if I seem overly critical, I just would like to make sure this good suggestion doesn't get turned away because it wasn't fully thought out. Also, there are a lot of things us player mods have to deal with that players don't, and I'd like to make sure you see our point of view. :)

 

I'm actually thankful for this approach of yours. It wasn't completely agreeing, but the way you present your criticism brings up some good points as well as giving me something to work with. At current I still see no need to change anything based on this; however, your post does point out that some aspects need to be better defined/explained.

 

 

 

In all fairness, though, I see now that perhaps a couple of the previous posts have done the same (even if to a smaller and less noticeable extent). Perhaps I should tack on a section to the end with all the points that have been brought up and addressed.

 

 

 

Anyways, any further feedback based on this new information would be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, I'll do that tacking on a bit later. I'm a tad tired right now and need my sleep, lest I put something a might too stupid. :P

[Borei]

I've added a Concerns and Responses section to the end of my first post.

 

 

 

Please post any additions for it, or suggestions regarding legibility, you may have here. If posting a suggestion regarding legibility, please remember that when I do put this on the Official Forums that it will be a simple copy and paste job, and that the Official Forums don't support things like font colours.

 

 

 

Thank you.

[starev91]

I find it a good idea, and I can back up that jagex doesn't seem to send those confirmations of an appropriate report anymore (I've sent in a number of reports I'm almost certain are legit, there are those few special cases where I'm reporting something that -might- be against the rules). I know I haven't been abusing the system, as I have no black marks, and report most offenses I see (inappropriate language I only report when it's aimed at someone, is discriminatory, or is wanton-one word here or there isn't going to kill anyone, and contrary to popular belief, most kids know all the main rude words by the time they are 13, the age you are meant to be to play the game). I haven't gotten one of those messages for over a year now, which might be a good thing, as if it were my inbox from jagex would be full of them :P

 

 

 

 

 

Only problem I can see with it is that jagex might have more trouble sorting out the real from the fake and all that. They'd probubly have to devote a lot more of their customer support to report viewage, as I'm sure there are more unreported rulebreakages then fake reports, and each takes a minute to view and longer to review. They'd probubly end up having to put more people in customer support, as they'd need more help viewing the reports and all that. More people in customer support isn't bad, but Jagex might not be partial to it (esspecially as the number of new people needed would go up as well as the number of people initially).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited to add: I realize this was pointed out before, I was putting extra emphisis on the point of "but Jagex might not be partial to it". Or at least I felt that I was. Possibly as much as doubling expenses has never been a popular thing with companies, and jagex, although I'm sure they care about their players, is a company. I find this would most likely be the biggest problem with the entire suggestion, and so I put extra emphisis on it.

 

 

 

Edited a second time to add to the first edit.

 

 

 

Edited a third time to add: Possibly the ability to view this rating for a small extra payment per month? I'm sure some people would pay for the extra knowledge of how they were doing and the possible rewards that would come with it. People who didn't care could just continue on their merry way.

[Borei]

Thank you for your input. Please see the Concerns and Responses section (bottom of it) for my response.

[Borei]

Edited to add: I realize this was pointed out before, I was putting extra emphisis on the point of "but Jagex might not be partial to it". Or at least I felt that I was. Possibly as much as doubling expenses has never been a popular thing with companies, and jagex, although I'm sure they care about their players, is a company. I find this would most likely be the biggest problem with the entire suggestion, and so I put extra emphisis on it.

 

 

 

Edited a second time to add to the first edit.

 

 

 

Edited a third time to add: Possibly the ability to view this rating for a small extra payment per month? I'm sure some people would pay for the extra knowledge of how they were doing and the possible rewards that would come with it. People who didn't care could just continue on their merry way.

 

Confucius Say: Too much editing without bumping bad for health. (OK, he didn't really say that. So sue me. :P )

 

 

 

Aside from the initial development costs, there should be little to no financial implications in this. (Yeah, you heard me.) After being fully implemented and everyone given time to adjust to the change, the only thing that would really change on Jagex Customer Support's side (as far as what they have to do) is that when they review a report one of two things happens. Either they have to rate the individual report on a scale they determine for themselves (after which it's averaged into the overall reports rating of the player that sent it), or it's programmed so that after a decision is made on the report a +1/-1 type deal is applied to your rating automatically. I personally prefer the first one, but I can live with the second.

[Borei]

Updated to add in new point/response.

 

 

 

Edited to include a possible solution to hopefully make the Development Team a bit less hesitant in going along with this.

[V1P3l2]

wow that's an awesome idea, jagex should really consider this suggestion. Like you said it's more work for jagex but in the long run it'll really help :thumbsup:

 

 

 

you should post this on offical fourms

[Borei]

bump from page 4

[seanite]

Bad suggestion people shouldn't lose their ability to report and if people do see a thing they need to report and don't have that ability then the person could get away, just keep it the way it is Jagex wouldn't want to program this it would just be too much to program and not really worth it

[Borei]

Please read the whole suggestion and the after points before attempting to provide input as your comment may already be addressed.