World War III?

[Bmw]

Three pages in, and finally I have time to enter this thread discussion. Been so busy lately :wall:

 

 

 

I'll start off by saying I think this 'turning into' a Third World War isn't likely. A week ago I may have said differently, but the USA has finally realized that it's in their best interests for the fighting to stop.

 

 

 

However, WWII didn't start for the Americans until 1942, so we could very well be in the midst of what the future may consider as events of WWIII. Just a thought...

 

 

 

With the Hezbollah (Islamic) vs Israeli (Jewish) war, this is a thousand year old war anyhow, so relating it to WWIII is kind of stupid. I don't know the religious reasons behind it (I have some reading to do on that issue...), but the Jihad fighters have been fighting everyone, of all religions, basically forever. Their goal is to have Sharia law imposed on the world, so they'll essentially never stop fighting until that happens. Again, I'm not sure if this is Hezbollahs goal necessarily, but it's related to their attacks, no doubt.

 

 

 

Another thing with it, is that the war will go on seemingly forever. I have many Lebanese friends who have such great hatred towards Israelis, even though they have never met a single one in their lives. The common news example is, imagine a 5 year old Muslim child who has just seen his father die, at the hands of the Israelis. This child will grow up with such extreme hatred towards them. The same example can be used, switching the countries/races. It's terrible...

 

 

 

It's not a war for freedom necessarily, it's a war for power, as it always is. Again, the ways of Islam are important, and as always, is a strong motive for war. In Israels case, they want to keep their land, and some of their actions suggest they want more Palestinian land. So don't feel sorry for the Israelis necessarily, there isn't a single good/bad side in these wars..

 

 

 

I suppose that's all I have to say for now...

[trapical]

I can see Israel's point but you can't win in their situation. They are surrounded by over a billion Muslims and for every terrorist they kill 10 more take his place. I feel sad for the U.S. since it has to support Israel but in the process it separates itself from the rest of the world, making more and more enemies and increasing the chances for a second 9/11.

 

 

 

Let me put it this way, lets pretend countries are represented by school children in a park. Israel, a athletic rich white kid, goes to the part of the park that all the low income, out of shape, black students are playing in. One of them throws a rock at Israel and calls him a name. Israel suddenly picks up a stick and beats the crap out of that kid... the kid tries to fight back and Israel uses that as an excuse to break both his arms and knock him unconscious. This is all going on while this black kid's 20 friends are watching angrily. Everyone in the park now comes over and is like "Israel, what the heck are you doing?!? You can't just beat the crap out of that guy just because he threw a rock! Let's stop this fighting and talk this all out" Suddenly the teacher walks out into the park, her name is the U.S.A. and Israel is her favorite student. She says "Hey now, Israel has the right to beat the crap out of this kid... he threw a rock and the only way to stop that is to break both his arms!"

 

Now, what is most likely to happen in this situation:

 

A) Israel continues to hang out in that part of the park, surrounded by that kid's friends, who for some reason now decide to let Israel be.

 

B) The kid's all begin to hate the Israel and the teacher. They hatred grows over the decades and they begin to plot against them....

[pianofrieak2]

I can see Israel's point but you can't win in their situation. They are surrounded by over a billion Muslims and for every terrorist they kill 10 more take his place. I feel sad for the U.S. since it has to support Israel but in the process it separates itself from the rest of the world, making more and more enemies and increasing the chances for a second 9/11.

 

 

 

Let me put it this way, lets pretend countries are represented by school children in a park. Israel, a athletic rich white kid, goes to the part of the park that all the low income, out of shape, black students are playing in. One of them throws a rock at Israel and calls him a name. Israel suddenly picks up a stick and beats the crap out of that kid... the kid tries to fight back and Israel uses that as an excuse to break both his arms and knock him unconscious. This is all going on while this black kid's 20 friends are watching angrily. Everyone in the park now comes over and is like "Israel, what the heck are you doing?!? You can't just beat the crap out of that guy just because he threw a rock! Let's stop this fighting and talk this all out" Suddenly the teacher walks out into the park, her name is the U.S.A. and Israel is her favorite student. She says "Hey now, Israel has the right to beat the crap out of this kid... he threw a rock and the only way to stop that is to break both his arms!"

 

Now, what is most likely to happen in this situation:

 

A) Israel continues to hang out in that part of the park, surrounded by that kid's friends, who for some reason now decide to let Israel be.

 

B) The kid's all begin to hate the Israel and the teacher. They hatred grows over the decades and they begin to plot against them....

 

 

 

Your analogy is a bit flawed. Here's a new one.

 

 

 

The kid, Israel, hangs out in this park. He's not rich; actually, he looks just like the black kids. However, his family is different because his Dad had to work for his living. The other kids are dirt poor even though their Dads have billions of dollars for selling land they inherited. Now, three of them get together and say, "Hey, he's rich. Why's he so rich, that's stupid!" and start throwing rocks at him. Israel at first just tries to handle the situation by invoking the teacher and trying to build some pressure in his favor. The teacher agrees while the other teachers just kind of sit and watch, taking sides with whoever will benefit them the most. But as soon as Israel has been beaten up with rocks, gotten a few black eyes, and then one broken bone, he says enough is enough and goes and beats on the kids who hurt him so much.

 

 

 

His teacher understands and tries to get other teachers to act in his favor, except that the other teachers don't care and just want to give some money and make it stop. Except it won't stop and nothing they do will help the situation out.

[mad4u689]

I can see Israel's point but you can't win in their situation. They are surrounded by over a billion Muslims and for every terrorist they kill 10 more take his place. I feel sad for the U.S. since it has to support Israel but in the process it separates itself from the rest of the world, making more and more enemies and increasing the chances for a second 9/11.

 

 

 

Let me put it this way, lets pretend countries are represented by school children in a park. Israel, a athletic rich white kid, goes to the part of the park that all the low income, out of shape, black students are playing in. One of them throws a rock at Israel and calls him a name. Israel suddenly picks up a stick and beats the crap out of that kid... the kid tries to fight back and Israel uses that as an excuse to break both his arms and knock him unconscious. This is all going on while this black kid's 20 friends are watching angrily. Everyone in the park now comes over and is like "Israel, what the heck are you doing?!? You can't just beat the crap out of that guy just because he threw a rock! Let's stop this fighting and talk this all out" Suddenly the teacher walks out into the park, her name is the U.S.A. and Israel is her favorite student. She says "Hey now, Israel has the right to beat the crap out of this kid... he threw a rock and the only way to stop that is to break both his arms!"

 

Now, what is most likely to happen in this situation:

 

A) Israel continues to hang out in that part of the park, surrounded by that kid's friends, who for some reason now decide to let Israel be.

 

B) The kid's all begin to hate the Israel and the teacher. They hatred grows over the decades and they begin to plot against them....

 

 

 

I think that pianofreak's analogy is the better one.

 

 

 

However, the main difference between the analogy and the actuality is that a country isn't a person. A country has a government, and it is the duty of that government to protect its citizens. If Hezbollah is sending rockets to kill Israeli citizens, the Israeli government is contractually obligated (according to most political theorists) to afford its citizens whatever protections it is capable of.

 

 

 

If Israel was intending to cause as much damage as possible (which is the intention of Hezbollah and terrorists) they could have caused FAR more deaths. I'm not saying Israel has been as restrained as it should have been, but it is showing at least some restraint. They're not trying to kill everyone. They're just failing to adequately avoid unnecessary killings.

 

 

 

Though I shouldn't say "just failing." It's a serious problem, and one I think the Israeli government better remedy ASAP, because the deaths of more innocent civilians is intolerable - even if Hezbollah's strategy is to try to hide in populated areas to FORCE the death of innocent civilians in order to make Israel look bad. Israel shouldn't give into their strategy.

[trapical]

The thing I was trying to get across was the fact that "Israel" just attacked one kid, and he's in the part of the park where he doesn't exactly have friends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well regardless, instead of Israel fighting wars why don't they find out why they have so many enemies, and try to fix those problems? That's one thing that I kind of hate about Israel, they often say "Everyone hates us because they're all jealous! We are the smartest and richest people in the world" People don't hate you because you're better then them, they admire you (i.e. Mexico and the USA... we don't have many Mexican terrorists in Texas.) I know it's easier said then done, but Israel needs to figure out why out of 138 countries only the US agrees with it's actions :roll:

 

 

 

Relating it to RL, I know I am doing something wrong if 99% of the school suddenly hates me, and no you can't get by, even if your one friend is the most popular guy in school. This statement is exaggerated if everyone already seems to hate you and you suddenly start displacing tens of millions of innocent civilians while killing women and children being broadcast on international TV.

[dusqi]

I think that attacking Hezbollah will just make it stronger. Hezbollah will now get more money and covert support from Muslim countries. Israel doesn't even have the support of the non-Muslim world in this attack, and now civillians on both sides are dying in increasing numbers and it's just looking like Israel is the aggressor.

[Bmw]

I think that attacking Hezbollah will just make it stronger. Hezbollah will now get more money and covert support from Muslim countries. Israel doesn't even have the support of the non-Muslim world in this attack, and now civillians on both sides are dying in increasing numbers and it's just looking like Israel is the aggressor.

 

 

 

Nah, I really think Hezbollah will be destroyed. There is no reason for Syria or Iran to put more money into Hezbollah, everyone knows that Israel can defeat them. It's more of a nuisance than an actual threat, Hezbollah will be destroyed, with time.

[Faux]

Erm, doesn't Great Britain support Israel too? Too much of an exaggeration to say that 99% of the world hates Israel either way.

 

 

 

Trapical, what do you want Israel to do then? Just let Hezbollah keep terrorizing them?

[Bmw]

Hmm, Trapical, in relation to what Shadowfax just said, several countries do support Israel. Great Britain, USA, and add Canada to that list. You said that Israel should find out what they're doing wrong? I don't understand this at all. Israel is a Jewish nation, surrounded by Muslim nations. Israel could pay them all $10 Billion (random number) and the Muslim nations would still attack them. It's not necessarily the country doing anything wrong, rather the main case of two religions based on opposing values.

 

 

 

In terms of what Mad was saying about Hezbollah's strategy to hide in populated areas...I agree. However, why does the world care, all of a sudden, that Israel is killing innocent civilians in Lebanon? I'm definitely not saying it's good, or it's right, but Lebanon has been one of the countries attacking Israel for years. Yet all of a sudden, Lebanon is being made to look like the innocent bystander here. :?

[greenslime89]

I think america and britain should jump in and help isreal's fight against hezbelar since they are against terrorism. :?

[Tetsuya]

Lebanon has been one of the countries attacking Israel for years. Yet all of a sudden, Lebanon is being made to look like the innocent bystander here.

 

The Lebanese government hasn't attacked Israel for 60 years. What are you talking about?

[Bmw]

Lebanon has been one of the countries attacking Israel for years. Yet all of a sudden, Lebanon is being made to look like the innocent bystander here.

 

The Lebanese government hasn't attacked Israel for 60 years. What are you talking about?

 

 

 

Sorry, I phrased my sentence poorly. The Lebanese attacked Israel in what...1948, right, and got beaten badly? Lebanon hates Israel, as far as I know. What actions of kindness, if any, has Lebanon ever shown to Israel? None, again, as far as I know. Lebanon is one of the Arab nations that hate Israel, and as far as I'm concerned, Israel has every right to be in Lebanon today.

[dusqi]

Just to clarify, does the UK support Israel? The last time I heard, everyone in the world wanted an immediate end to hostilities except the USA, who wanted to drag things out as long as possible.

 

 

 

I counted that as the UK going in a seperate direction from the USA, and considering how much the UK usually just sucks up, that's a pretty big negative statement in the diplomatic world.

 

 

 

(then again, I've been on holiday for the weekend, so things may have changed)

[mad4u689]

 

Relating it to RL, I know I am doing something wrong if 99% of the school suddenly hates me, and no you can't get by, even if your one friend is the most popular guy in school. This statement is exaggerated if everyone already seems to hate you and you suddenly start displacing tens of millions of innocent civilians while killing women and children being broadcast on international TV.

 

 

 

That's not true - there are other reasons that everyone in the school might hate you. Think back to when segregated school systems was a big issue in the USA, and the Little Rock fiasco - the few black kids who were integrated into the school. They were being escorted by the most powerful people (like Israel and the US), but everyone in school hated them and treated them terribly and tried to beat them up anyway. It's called prejudice.

 

 

 

 

Just to clarify, does the UK support Israel? The last time I heard, everyone in the world wanted an immediate end to hostilities except the USA, who wanted to drag things out as long as possible.

 

I don't think the USA is merely trying to drag things out as long as possible.

 

 

 

The USA is asking not for a ceasefire, but for a SUSTAINABLE CEASEFIRE. Israel has a government and a leader who can legitimately call a ceasefire; however, if Hezbollah declares a ceasefire, independent terrorists will still attack and nothing much will change, and innocent Israeli citizens will continue to die. Thus, an immediate ceasefire would be a ceasefire in name only, and utterly disadvantageous for Israel. this is why the phrase "sustainable ceasefire" isn't just political jargon but a legitimate policy. One that hasn't been working very well, mind you, but legitimate nevertheless.